Will David Haye Be Considered The Second Greatest Cruiserweight Of All Time?

[Superheavyweight]

After November?

The great Juan Carlos Gomez is an honourable mention but he was never the undisputed champion like Haye will be.

Norris; DeLeon and Wamba were all good fighters too, but is David Haye better?

[brooklyn1550]

No...end of discussion

[the_what]

:lol:

[Superheavyweight]

Well fools, how many undisputed Cruiserweight champions have there been?

4?

Holyfield then Bell then Mormeck and now Haye.

So the only fighters you could possibly have above Haye are Bell and Mormeck.

So why isn’t David Haye the second greatest Cruiserweight of all time?

Back up your opinions with facts *****s.

[Amsterdam]

No...end of discussion

You're damn right, Bell already KOed Mormeck anyway. Both Bell and Mormeck are overrated, inactive fighters and nothing to the level of being mentioned within the top 5 IMO.

[Amsterdam]

Well fools, how many undisputed Cruiserweight champions have there been?

4?

Holyfield then Bell then Mormeck and now Haye.

So the only fighters you could possibly have above Haye are Bell and Mormeck.

So why isn’t David Haye the second greatest Cruiserweight of all time?

Back up your opinions with facts *****s.

You know, you're really fucking weird, it's almost alarming.

[Napoleon]

After November?

The great Juan Carlos Gomez is an honourable mention but he was never the undisputed champion like Haye will be.

Norris; DeLeon and Wamba were all good fighters too, but is David Haye better?

Not even fucking close, you damn nuthugger.

[McGrain]

No. Ridiculous.

[Dr Gonzo]

nope - not even close

[Amsterdam]

No. Ridiculous.

This guy freaks me out mate, he thinks Fraudley will be the Undisputed champion in 2008, I think he's a sociopath.

[Dr Gonzo]

This guy freaks me out mate, he thinks Fraudley will be the Undisputed champion in 2008, I think he's a sociopath.

i can never decide if he honestly thinks that due to some form of delusional condition or if he is an alias :think

[Superheavyweight]

You know, you're really fucking weird, it's almost alarming.Ok Mr. Normal, list your top 10 greatest cruiserweights of all time then, and that goes for the rest of you fuckers too.

If Haye isn’t #2, then who is?

[Napoleon]

Ok Mr. Normal, list your top 10 greatest cruiserweights of all time then, and that goes for the rest of you fuckers too.

If Haye isn’t #2, then who is?

1. Charlie Zelenoff
2. Evander Holyfield
3. Vicious Boxer77
4. RussianBoxer
5. White Hope
6. Vicious

[Amsterdam]

Ok Mr. Normal, list your top 10 greatest cruiserweights of all time then, and that goes for the rest of you fuckers too.

If Haye isn’t #2, then who is?

Considering Bell already KOed Mormeck and arguably won the second bout, it's hysterical that you feel Haye would get a #2 rating, right behind Commander Evander.

And Bell is an average fighter who got a gift over Cowboy Brown, so you need to relax on the issue of overrating your British fighters like Haye and Fraudley. If you have to back the Brits 100%, at least back 1 of the 2 current P4P brits in their run for international success.

David Haye is good however, I have nothing against him. But the Fraudley non sense has to end.

[Napoleon]

Considering Bell already KOed Mormeck and arguably won the second bout, it's hysterical that you feel Haye would get a #2 rating, right behind Commander Evander.

And Bell is an average fighter who got a gift over Cowboy Brown, so you need to relax on the issue of overrating your British fighters like Haye and Fraudley.

:huh :huh :huh :huh

From what I remember, it wasn't even close.

[McGrain]

This guy freaks me out mate, he thinks Fraudley will be the Undisputed champion in 2008, I think he's a sociopath.

:lol:

[Boro chris]

:lol:

Don't laugh!:nono

He scares the shit out of me as well!:admin

[Amsterdam]

Don't laugh!:nono

He scares the shit out of me as well!:admin

On top of it, he's a conspiracy theorist who talks about earth becoming apart of a greater galactic community, he's certainly 'interesting', but not in the way that I am personally interested.

He's a little alarming.

[Asterion]

CRUISERWEIGHTS:

1. Evander Holyfield
2. Carlos de Leon
3. Juan Carlos Gomez
4. Johnny Nelson
5. Jean Marc Mormeck
6. Vasiliy Jirov
7. O’Neil Bell
8. James Toney
9. Orlin Norris
10. Dwight Muhammad Qawi


By beating an old Arthur Williams, Glen Kelly, Alexander Gurov, Fragomeni and Mormeck I don't know if Haye will make it to the Top10.

BTW, Holyfield beat Qawi twice, Henry Tillman, Ricky Parkey, Ossie Ocassio and Oscar de Leon to be the GOAT in that weight class.

[left hook 75]

CRUISERWEIGHTS:

1. Evander Holyfield
2. Carlos de Leon
3. Juan Carlos Gomez
4. Johnny Nelson
5. Jean Marc Mormeck
6. Vasiliy Jirov
7. O’Neil Bell
8. James Toney
9. Orlin Norris
10. Dwight Muhammad Qawi


By beating an old Arthur Williams, Glen Kelly, Alexander Gurov, Fragomeni and Mormeck I don't know if Haye will make it to the Top10.Thats a good list.I don't think he can top that:good

[jopez707]

This is a big if, that he will even beat Mormeck. I'm pulling for Mormeck.

[nervousxtian]

Considering Bell already KOed Mormeck and arguably won the second bout, it's hysterical that you feel Haye would get a #2 rating, right behind Commander Evander.

Arguably? If you like arguing for the sake of arguing, because you'd be wrong. Bell only came close to winning that fight because Mormeck took the last 4 rounds off.



On the main topic:

Haye COULD be the #2 Cruiserweight of all-time at some point, but it's way too early to make any kind of prediction like that at all. Besides we have to see if he stays at Cruiser after the Mormeck fight, which is no pushover fight at all anyhow.

[Words]

In terms of achievements, no, in terms of Head to Head, he might be. Definitely top 5. IF he beats Mormeck I can only see Holyfield, de Leon, Gomez and maybe Qawi beating him prime for prime, He's probably the hardest hitting cruiserweight ever I'll give him that.

[Snorkel]

CRUISERWEIGHTS:

1. Evander Holyfield
2. Carlos de Leon
3. Juan Carlos Gomez
4. Johnny Nelson
5. Jean Marc Mormeck
6. Vasiliy Jirov
7. O’Neil Bell
8. James Toney
9. Orlin Norris
10. Dwight Muhammad Qawi


By beating an old Arthur Williams, Glen Kelly, Alexander Gurov, Fragomeni and Mormeck I don't know if Haye will make it to the Top10.

BTW, Holyfield beat Qawi twice, Henry Tillman, Ricky Parkey, Ossie Ocassio and Oscar de Leon to be the GOAT in that weight class.

You've got Toney in the top 10 and his biggest win was against your #6 cruiser, Jirov. If Haye were to beat your #5, Mormeck, convincingly, then coupled with his wins over other decent cruisers he's surely got to be in there somewhere, no?

[Luigi1985]

No, SHW, he´s even right now the best CW ever! :thumbsup

[Asterion]

You've got Toney in the top 10 and his biggest win was against your #6 cruiser, Jirov. If Haye were to beat your #5, Mormeck, convincingly, then coupled with his wins over other decent cruisers he's surely got to be in there somewhere, no?

Maybe Haye belongs in the Top10, but the toe-to-toe basis would be a big part in that rating.

[Snorkel]

Maybe Haye belongs in the Top10, but the toe-to-toe basis would be a big part in that rating.

Fair enough, but I think Haye's size and power means he compares quite favourably in that respect to all the other top cruisers. I may be slightly biased however.

[Strike]

Someone ban this fucking peon

He supports Audley Harrison - ffs, nuff said.

Exactly.
Boring, repetetive muppet who I think actually hates English fighters and just wants them to be disrespected by starting bullshit like this.

[Toopretty]

fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk NO.

[Snorkel]

Let's see Haye perform at the top level, he's only just gotten there

I think Ding would break him, for instance - yet you don't see anyone ranking Ding in the top 10

Absolutely, I wouldn't try to suggest he's top 10 until after the Mormeck fight at least.

Regarding a fight with Ding however, I think it's a fairly easy night for Haye provided he fights sensibly. He's got all the physical advantages and given that Nwodo was outboxing Ding, I'm quite confident Haye can do the same but in a more convincing manner. He's got a huge reach and decent fundamentals enabling him to win the fight at a distance.

[Bubba]

Evander Holyfield is the only undisputed, undefeated cruiserweight in history.

Nobody comes close to him!!

[Ding]

Absolutely, I wouldn't try to suggest he's top 10 until after the Mormeck fight at least.

Regarding a fight with Ding however, I think it's a fairly easy night for Haye provided he fights sensibly. He's got all the physical advantages and given that Nwodo was outboxing Ding, I'm quite confident Haye can do the same but in a more convincing manner. He's got a huge reach and decent fundamentals enabling him to win the fight at a distance.



It is very hard to fight at that level without ANY sparring. Extra hard for a guy like me who fights largely off of timing my opponents.

I am very high on Haye myself actually. I've seen alot of his fights and training videos. Can you guess who Kelvin Davis said hit harder between me and Haye?? You might be a little suprised at what he said.

The fight with Haye would be more difficult if he stayed on the outside without throwing alot of right hands and giving sharp angles.

However, he will not do that because he believes he is the strongest with his confidence riding very high. I can promise you that I am a much more dangerous puncher than the Italian guy he fought that hit him often and fought small. Its my understanding that Kelvin Davis had alot of good moments with Haye in sparring, but sparring is far from the whole answer of course. I think he does better with guys that fight tall from what I've seen.

I think it would be a helluva exciting fight while it last, and hope like hell it come off one day. I know very well how to counter that left hook right hand combo he loves to throw.:hey

Anyone who throws alot of punches when they fight me will lose by KO.:deal Dude I hate braggin, but I am very confident in the things I do very well.

At the moment we are pushing soooo fuggin hard to land the fight with Enzo on Nov 3rd I can taste that WBO title. I have my doubts unfortunately. I'm willing to even take short money for the bout and Frank ****** knows that.:smoke

[box03]

It is very hard to fight at that level without ANY sparring. Extra hard for a guy like me who fights largely off of timing my opponents.

I am very high on Haye myself actually. I've seen alot of his fights and training videos. Can you guess who Kelvin Davis said hit harder between me and Haye?? You might be a little suprised at what he said.

The fight with Haye would be more difficult if he stayed on the outside without throwing alot of right hands and giving sharp angles.

However, he will not do that because he believes he is the strongest with his confidence riding very high. I can promise you that I am a much more dangerous puncher than the Italian guy he fought that hit him often and fought small. Its my understanding that Kelvin Davis had alot of good moments with Haye in sparring, but sparring is far from the whole answer of course. I think he does better with guys that fight tall from what I've seen.

I think it would be a helluva exciting fight while it last, and hope like hell it come off one day. I know very well how to counter that left hook right hand combo he loves to throw.:hey

Anyone who throws alot of punches when they fight me will lose by KO.:deal Dude I hate braggin, but I am very confident in the things I do very well.

At the moment we are pushing soooo fuggin hard to land the fight with Enzo on Nov 3rd I can taste that WBO title. I have my doubts unfortunately. I'm willing to even take short money for the bout and Frank ****** knows that.:smoke Your one of my favorite fighters right now, your fights are usually very exciting to watch. After you conquer the Cruiserwieght division do you see yourselve putting on wieght to fight at heavywieght?

[Words]

Dont hold your breath for Frank ****** Ding, there's much weaker fighters out there who he can feed to Enzo and make plenty money off.

By the way, I'd love to see you fight Herbie Hide. That'd be a brutal encounter whilst it lasted.

[Ding]

Dont hold your breath for Frank ****** Ding, there's much weaker fighters out there who he can feed to Enzo and make plenty money off.

By the way, I'd love to see you fight Herbie Hide. That'd be a brutal encounter whilst it lasted.



I agree with you on the Hide fight, but he is not recognized as one of the top 3 at cruiser and it would not be worth much at the moment unfortunately.

[KO Boxing]

Na...

[Words]

I get the feeling Hide might do quite well at cruiser. He was an excellent boxer with incredible punching power, he just wasn't big enough to take a heavyweight punch. With any luck his chin wont let him down as bad at Cruiser. Wether or not he wins a title I think he provides a lot of excitement in the division.

Having said that, Ding, Haye, Enzo Mac, Bell and Mormeck all have heavyweight KO power, and it doesn't take much to put ol' Herb on his arse.

Cruiser is a superb division. Imagine how good it'd have been if Vassily Jirov, Juan Carlos Gomez and James Toney had stuck around instead of moving up in weight? Imagine if Chris Byrd or Roy Jones Jnr had fought at that weight too! Woulda been much more interesting than the heavies at the moment. I always liked Juan Carlos Gomez, he's a very talented and underachieving fighter if you ask me. Shoulda done more with his career.

[SAS2]

who the hell has he beaten...

[The Whaler]

No. Not unless he beats Mormeck and stays in the Cruiserweight division. but he seems adamant about moving up to the Heavyweight division after the Mormeck fight.

[achillesthegreat]

Haye is the best of the best. Creme de la Creme.

20 have tried, 1 has succeeded.

He'll be the best ever, excluding Holy!!!

Then he is going to go to heavyweight and wreak havoc.

[The Funny Man 7]

No. Gomez would have DESTROYED him. Same goes of Holy

[David UK]

Yes, but only after he has achieved success at heavyweight

[PATSYS]

After November?

The great Juan Carlos Gomez is an honourable mention but he was never the undisputed champion like Haye will be.

Norris; DeLeon and Wamba were all good fighters too, but is David Haye better?

November 2012?

Maybe,if he keeps fighting the best.

[David UK]

It is very hard to fight at that level without ANY sparring. Extra hard for a guy like me who fights largely off of timing my opponents.

I am very high on Haye myself actually. I've seen alot of his fights and training videos. Can you guess who Kelvin Davis said hit harder between me and Haye?? You might be a little suprised at what he said.

The fight with Haye would be more difficult if he stayed on the outside without throwing alot of right hands and giving sharp angles.

However, he will not do that because he believes he is the strongest with his confidence riding very high. I can promise you that I am a much more dangerous puncher than the Italian guy he fought that hit him often and fought small. Its my understanding that Kelvin Davis had alot of good moments with Haye in sparring, but sparring is far from the whole answer of course. I think he does better with guys that fight tall from what I've seen.

I think it would be a helluva exciting fight while it last, and hope like hell it come off one day. I know very well how to counter that left hook right hand combo he loves to throw.:hey

Anyone who throws alot of punches when they fight me will lose by KO.:deal Dude I hate braggin, but I am very confident in the things I do very well.

At the moment we are pushing soooo fuggin hard to land the fight with Enzo on Nov 3rd I can taste that WBO title. I have my doubts unfortunately. I'm willing to even take short money for the bout and Frank ****** knows that.:smoke

I enjoyed reading your insight. I've seen you on British tv once(can't remember the opponent but it was about 6months ago) and thought you looked pretty good. Obviously I'd be rooting for Haye and Enzo against you as I'm a Brit, but good luck anyway.Hope Frank ****** gives you the chance v Enzo but ****** is a complete wanker so I wouldn't hold my breath!!

[Superheavyweight]

The only one man enough to list his top 10 was Asterion, and even he put the man that Haye is about to KO @ #5.

Why don’t you use your brilliant boxing knowledge and list your top 10 Amsterdam?

Instead of criticizing, and that goes for the rest of you dick heads, instead of just saying “no, he isn’t”, back up your opinions with your own lists and explain why.

And don’t use mine or Asterion’s list as inspiration by using the same 10 but just read******g the order, be original.

Anyway here is mine:

1. Evander Holyfield Former Undefeated Undisputed Champion
2. David Haye Undisputed Champion
3. O’Neil Bell Former Undisputed Champion
4. Jean-Marc Mormeck Former Undisputed Champion
5. James Toney
6. Carlos DeLeon
7. Orlin Norris
8. Juan Carlos Gomez
9. Anaclet Wamba
10. Vassiliy Jirov

[China_hand_Joe]

Audley Harrison is awesome.

But you are fully aware that your list is a disgrace.

[Superheavyweight]

Audley Harrison is awesome.

But you are fully aware that your list is a disgrace.Again more criticism but no list of your own to back it up.

[Snorkel]

It is very hard to fight at that level without ANY sparring. Extra hard for a guy like me who fights largely off of timing my opponents.

I am very high on Haye myself actually. I've seen alot of his fights and training videos. Can you guess who Kelvin Davis said hit harder between me and Haye?? You might be a little suprised at what he said.

The fight with Haye would be more difficult if he stayed on the outside without throwing alot of right hands and giving sharp angles.

However, he will not do that because he believes he is the strongest with his confidence riding very high. I can promise you that I am a much more dangerous puncher than the Italian guy he fought that hit him often and fought small. Its my understanding that Kelvin Davis had alot of good moments with Haye in sparring, but sparring is far from the whole answer of course. I think he does better with guys that fight tall from what I've seen.

I think it would be a helluva exciting fight while it last, and hope like hell it come off one day. I know very well how to counter that left hook right hand combo he loves to throw.:hey

Anyone who throws alot of punches when they fight me will lose by KO.:deal Dude I hate braggin, but I am very confident in the things I do very well.

At the moment we are pushing soooo fuggin hard to land the fight with Enzo on Nov 3rd I can taste that WBO title. I have my doubts unfortunately. I'm willing to even take short money for the bout and Frank ****** knows that.:smoke

I said he'd beat you if he fights sensibly, but you're right, that is a big if. Haye's the kind of guy who wouldn't want to be seen as being negative so you could well draw him into a scrap which evens the odds quite considerably. That said, he's been fighting increasingly cleverly since his macho style cost him the Thompson fight.

I'd quite like to see you in against Enzo but I fear ******'s going to either scupper the plans entirely or insist on basically taking control of your career which is what caused the Enzo-Haye bout to fall apart. I think it'd be an interesting fight, Enzo seems to have improved under Calzaghe and he answered a few questions about his chin against Braithwaite. Good luck to you.

[China_hand_Joe]

Again more criticism but no list of your own to back it up.

You cannot list Haye that highly on the back of one fight, over an old man. All Haye is winning is some kind of linear title.

I think you also have to place Joe Calzaghe over Haye at cruiser, certainly on a H2H basis. Calzaghe would obviously beat Haye at Cruiser where David is weight drained. How would Haye cope with Calzaghe's speed, and stamina? He couldn't. Calzaghe beats him on points, thuogh we cannot rule out the possibility of one of Joe's famous left hooks landing.

Haye's equalizer (his power) wouldn't be a factor either. He'd have little chance of landing on the evasive Calzaghe and Joe's chin is too solid anyway.

And can Haye fight inside? No, Calzaghe can beat him up there and at range with a superior jab. The other thing to consider is Calzaghe is weight-drained at supermiddleweight, so imagine how much better he might be at LHW and possibly cruiser.

Calzaghe, arguably the best LHW of all time can no doubt do Haye in. So long as his china hands hold out for the 12 rounds. If Calzaghe broke his left hand, thanks to his new found cruiserweight power, then yes, I'd favour Haye.

[Chiko_Tech]

No he still had a lot to do to be considered a great Cruserweight, damm he was stopped by a old past his best gatekeaper.

[Max Molyneux]

You cannot list Haye that highly on the back of one fight, over an old man. All Haye is winning is some kind of linear title.

I think you also have to place Joe Calzaghe over Haye at cruiser, certainly on a H2H basis. Calzaghe would obviously beat Haye at Cruiser where David is weight drained. How would Haye cope with Calzaghe's speed, and stamina? He couldn't. Calzaghe beats him on points, thuogh we cannot rule out the possibility of one of Joe's famous left hooks landing.

Haye's equalizer (his power) wouldn't be a factor either. He'd have little chance of landing on the evasive Calzaghe and Joe's chin is too solid anyway.

And can Haye fight inside? No, Calzaghe can beat him up there and at range with a superior jab. The other thing to consider is Calzaghe is weight-drained at supermiddleweight, so imagine how much better he might be at LHW and possibly cruiser.

Calzaghe, arguably the best LHW of all time can no doubt do Haye in. So long as his china hands hold out for the 12 rounds. If Calzaghe broke his left hand, thanks to his new found cruiserweight power, then yes, I'd favour Haye.

Couldn't Calzaghe outbox Haye with one hand though If Haye's drained at Cruiser?