View Full Version : Had Ali been assasinated in the late 60's / early 70's
aj415
12-01-2009, 07:54 PM
During his imposed sabbatical.
How would his legacy be different today?
How would he rate among ATG's?
Granted Ali was not a Civil Rights Leader per se but he spoke out as boldly and vibrantly and in some ways more extreme then the MLK's and Malcom X's of the time, following the dictations of the quackeries spewing from Elijah Muhammad
Stevie G
12-02-2009, 07:15 AM
"He could have been one of the great ones" That's what would have been said from a boxing perspective. The U.S.A. media would lament one of the darkest decades in it's history,because of so many public figures being assassinated. Eventually the boxing press would have given Muhammad his just due,and rated him as a top 10 all time heavyweight. Obviously not nearly as high as he is,quite justifiably,rated in reality.
PowerPuncher
12-02-2009, 08:42 AM
He would be rated alongisde Marciano achievement/legacy wise with the unbeaten run against very good but not great competition. There would be allot of focus on the first Cooper fight
Titan1
12-02-2009, 10:42 AM
What's with this assasination deal? Was he targeted by the FBI or the KKK?
Stevie G
12-02-2009, 11:20 AM
What's with this assasination deal? Was he targeted by the FBI or the KKK?
After Malcolm X was killed,there were rumours that Malcolm's followers were planning a revenge killing against a prominent figure close to Herbert Muhammad. There was nobody more prominent than The Greatest. Also,the pillow cases on heads nutcases were always threatening to bump him off. When he arrived in Atlanta for his comeback fight with Jerry Quarry,the KKK idiots were giving him menacing phone calls.
Manassa
12-02-2009, 11:36 AM
Had Ali been assassinated? :nut:lol:
What if he had no legs? Then what? I expect a ten page discussion.
Bad_Intentions
12-02-2009, 11:37 AM
"He could have been one of the great ones" That's what would have been said from a boxing perspective. The U.S.A. media would lament one of the darkest decades in it's history,because of so many public figures being assassinated. Eventually the boxing press would have given Muhammad his just due,and rated him as a top 10 all time heavyweight. Obviously not nearly as high as he is,quite justifiably,rated in reality.
:good
Titan1
12-02-2009, 11:52 AM
During his imposed sabbatical.
How would his legacy be different today?
How would he rate among ATG's?
Granted Ali was not a Civil Rights Leader per se but he spoke out as boldly and vibrantly and in some ways more extreme then the MLK's and Malcom X's of the time, following the dictations of the quackeries spewing from Elijah Muhammad
He would probably drop several notches, but would still make the top ten.
Titan1
12-02-2009, 11:53 AM
After Malcolm X was killed,there were rumours that Malcolm's followers were planning a revenge killing against a prominent figure close to Herbert Muhammad. There was nobody more prominent than The Greatest. Also,the pillow cases on heads nutcases were always threatening to bump him off. When he arrived in Atlanta for his comeback fight with Jerry Quarry,the KKK idiots were giving him menacing phone calls.
That's amazing.Didn't he eventually split from the Nation at some point?
OBCboxer
12-02-2009, 03:13 PM
He'd probably be ranked somewhere around 5.
red cobra
12-02-2009, 06:27 PM
What if he was abducted by aliens? What if???
aj415
12-02-2009, 06:32 PM
I don't get why this is so far-fetched to some of you given the realities of who was killed at the time
aj415
12-02-2009, 06:33 PM
Had Ali been assassinated? :nut:lol:
What if he had no legs? Then what? I expect a ten page discussion.
What if he was abducted by aliens? What if???
Secondly the majority of this forum is dedicated to what-if's, how do you justify mocking this topic, one based on probability, given it's what-if nature when you have both spent countless hours debating what-if this and what if that on this forum
Manassa
12-02-2009, 06:48 PM
Secondly the majority of this forum is dedicated to what-if's, how do you justify mocking this topic, one based on probability, given it's what-if nature when you have both spent countless hours debating what-if this and what if that on this forum
Ah. Conceded.
rekcutnevets
12-02-2009, 06:55 PM
Posted by Manassa
Had Ali been assassinated?
What if he had no legs? Then what? I expect a ten page discussion.
Posted by red cobra
What if he was abducted by aliens? What if???
Posted by aj415
Secondly the majority of this forum is dedicated to what-if's, how do you justify mocking this topic given it's what-if nature when you have both spent countless hours debating what-if this and what if that on this forum
I think that they are just poking a little fun at your reason for his career being cut short. You could have just asked what would be the opinion of Ali had his career ended in 1967, and left out what ended his career.
To answer your question, I believe Louis would have a firm hold atop the division. Ali would be argued high, but I wouldn't be surprised if a few people had him outside their top 5.
Ali's legend would not have been complete without Foreman. Ali had memorable bouts past 1967, but this was the 2nd time he "shook up the world."
Michael Mann and co made as solid a fight recreation as I've seen. I especially like what's going on inside Ali's mind at aprox 1:39.
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It doesn't strike me as that outlandish a scenario...
One important question is what happens to Foreman's rampage through the division? While he likely would not have the second career, without the confidence hit of the loss he could very well have pounded his way as champ up to a late 70's Holmes fight, which would have been very, very interesting.
If George beats Holmes, who would likely still dominate after George's retirement, he has legit shot at a #2 spot.
Stevie G
12-03-2009, 07:31 AM
That's amazing.Didn't he eventually split from the Nation at some point?
Yes he did. In the early 80's he converted to Orthodox Islam.
Stevie G
12-03-2009, 07:38 AM
I think that they are just poking a little fun at your reason for his career being cut short. You could have just asked what would be the opinion of Ali had his career ended in 1967, and left out what ended his career.
To answer your question, I believe Louis would have a firm hold atop the division. Ali would be argued high, but I wouldn't be surprised if a few people had him outside their top 5.
Ali's legend would not have been complete without Foreman. Ali had memorable bouts past 1967, but this was the 2nd time he "shook up the world."
Michael Mann and co made as solid a fight recreation as I've seen. I especially like what's going on inside Ali's mind at aprox 1:39.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
That film was ok,but my criticism of it is,that in the portrayal of the 'Rumble' Will Smith's face was caked with makeup at the end,making it look like Ali's face had been battered. It was n't like that in reality. That's part of the reason,why nowadays,a lot think that Ali was getting killed on the ropes for 8 rounds prior to the knockout. It is forgotten or ignored that Ali was constantly catching Foreman with punches too. Look at the real fight. If foreman's puffed up features had n't been caused by Muhammad's blows,then Zack Clayton must have been doing a really subtle job !!!
PowerPuncher
12-03-2009, 07:50 AM
It doesn't strike me as that outlandish a scenario...
One important question is what happens to Foreman's rampage through the division? While he likely would not have the second career, without the confidence hit of the loss he could very well have pounded his way as champ up to a late 70's Holmes fight, which would have been very, very interesting.
If George beats Holmes, who would likely still dominate after George's retirement, he has legit shot at a #2 spot.
I'm not sure Foreman hangs on until Holmes as Young beat him but if he does Holmes outboxes him. Holmes also may not be as good after not having the apprentiship as Ali's sparring partner.
Frazier would be ranked much lower as he wouldnt have the win over ALi and would still be destroyed against Foreman
rekcutnevets
12-03-2009, 09:07 AM
Posted by Stevie G
That film was ok,but my criticism of it is,that in the portrayal of the 'Rumble' Will Smith's face was caked with makeup at the end,making it look like Ali's face had been battered. It was n't like that in reality. That's part of the reason,why nowadays,a lot think that Ali was getting killed on the ropes for 8 rounds prior to the knockout. It is forgotten or ignored that Ali was constantly catching Foreman with punches too. Look at the real fight. If foreman's puffed up features had n't been caused by Muhammad's blows,then Zack Clayton must have been doing a really subtle job !!!
I have to disagree. Smith's face was a slight exaggeration, but they didn't have him all busted up. Ali didn't look the same at bout's end when compared to how he looked entering the fight in real life either. The film has Foreman's face swollen as well. Ali catches Forman with clean punches throughout the film's bout. In the section I posted, Foreman only lands one clean shot to the head.
Find one film with an actual fight replication that captures the authenticity of Ali and Foreman.
Stevie G
12-03-2009, 11:02 AM
I have to disagree. Smith's face was a slight exaggeration, but they didn't have him all busted up. Ali didn't look the same at bout's end when compared to how he looked entering the fight in real life either. The film has Foreman's face swollen as well. Ali catches Forman with clean punches throughout the film's bout. In the section I posted, Foreman only lands one clean shot to the head.
Find one film with an actual fight replication that captures the authenticity of Ali and Foreman.
Had another look at it on youtube. You're pretty much right really :good
Stevie G
12-03-2009, 11:06 AM
I still wish that Muhammad had retired in 1975,after Manila. His place in boxing history would still have been as high as it is. His health today may even have been better too. As I've said on previous posts,neither Ali or Frazier should have set foot in a ring after Manila,unless they were dressed in a suit.
ThinBlack
05-21-2012, 02:15 PM
During his imposed sabbatical.
How would his legacy be different today?
How would he rate among ATG's?
Granted Ali was not a Civil Rights Leader per se but he spoke out as boldly and vibrantly and in some ways more extreme then the MLK's and Malcom X's of the time, following the dictations of the quackeries spewing from Elijah Muhammad
Probably a top 5, top 10 heavyweight minimum.
MrOliverKlozoff
05-21-2012, 03:28 PM
"If he never came back to boxing" may have been classier. Louis would still be GOAT with no competition.
Foreman would have retired 50-0 in 83-84, and never came back, jersey joe would be rated higher.
MrOliverKlozoff
05-21-2012, 03:56 PM
Foreman would have retired 50-0 in 83-84, and never came back, jersey joe would be rated higher.
Jimmy Young would still be fighting though.
Jimmy Young would still be fighting though.
the george from the young fight and the ali fight were completely different.
MrOliverKlozoff
05-21-2012, 04:04 PM
They both had the same exploitable weaknesses in the same style.
They both had the same exploitable weaknesses in the same style.
foreman tryed to box too much, he did the same in the lyle and 2nd frazier fight. maybe young could pull off the upset but i highly highly doubt it.
It doesn't strike me as that outlandish a scenario...
One important question is what happens to Foreman's rampage through the division? While he likely would not have the second career, without the confidence hit of the loss he could very well have pounded his way as champ up to a late 70's Holmes fight, which would have been very, very interesting.
If George beats Holmes, who would likely still dominate after George's retirement, he has legit shot at a #2 spot.
holmes turned pro from fighting with ali, or so he says in his book. as for foreman i see him retiring early 80s 50-0 or something
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