DLH vs. Kostya Tzsyu @ 140 peak to peak.

[Amsterdam]

What do you have?

In fact, post your analysis if you'd like regardless of which fighter you are going for here or if you think it's even'd up, all are welcomed and would be appreciated.

:good

[DanePugilist]

Hard fight to predict. Both were killers, but I voted Kostya, because his accuracy was out of this world, imho.

edit: analysis: DLH had great handspeed, was good overall at range and inclose. Relative good power, great range of punches.

Kostya had a very good chin, as I said incredible accuracy, good jab, and good movement.

Kostya by toughness, but it would be close I think.

[C Money]

Kostya takes the decision!! He had slightly better skills IMO and the only guy's he had problems with were inside bangers. Thats not DLH!!

I see KT squeaking it out in what would be a great fight.

Sorry, a little too tired right now for in depth analysis.

[Amsterdam]

Hard fight to predict. Both were killers, but I voted Kostya, because his accuracy was out of this world, imho.

edit: analysis: DLH had great handspeed, was good overall at range and inclose. Relative good power, great range of punches.

Kostya had a very good chin, as I said incredible accuracy, good jab, and good movement.

Kostya by toughness, but it would be close I think.

I'm thinking it would be a very close decision, DLH presenting the higher workrate early on and Kostya sweeping rounds by landing the well timed right handed bombs, some that would stun DLH, but not be enough to put away a guy with his level of chin.

Then I'd see Kostya controlling late with the timed right hands and ring generalship, but because of the earlier part and DLH's flurries, the decision would go either way and would be very controversial depending on whether you liked the workrate or the more effective shots.

However, I'm selecting an all time favourite here to get the decision. This would have been a great fight.

[Amsterdam]

Kostya takes the decision!! He had slightly better skills IMO and the only guy's he had problems with were inside bangers. Thats not DLH!!

I see KT squeaking it out in what would be a great fight.

Sorry, a little too tired right now for in depth analysis.

Yes, DLH being a technical boxer-puncher matches up for a competitive fight vs. Kostya, Kostya could not deal well with swarmers of any degree due to swarmers doing extremely well against most Soviet boxer-puncher styles.

Kostya would be landing bombs, as his timing was some of the best ever, but DLH would be scoring with those ineffective flurries also. I also think Kostya would be controlling the pace down the stretch.

[errsta]

Hard to say. You know what you're getting with Tszyu, so it depends how Oscar approaches the fight. At 130-135, DLH was a more of a puncher. 147-160 he was more of a boxer. At 140, he was pretty balanced.

If he fought the same way he beat MAGo (Miguel Angel Gonzalez) I think he takes Tszyu. He would have to mix it up, though. If he primarily boxes, he gets timed. If he primarily punches, I'm not sure Oscar lands the heavier shots, although he very well could.

I'm picking Oscar, but it's far from a sure thing either way.

[DanePugilist]

I'm thinking it would be a very close decision, DLH presenting the higher workrate early on and Kostya sweeping rounds by landing the well timed right handed bombs, some that would stun DLH, but not be enough to put away a guy with his level of chin.

Then I'd see Kostya controlling late with the timed right hands and ring generalship, but because of the earlier part and DLH's flurries, the decision would go either way and would be very controversial depending on whether you liked the workrate or the more effective shots.

However, I'm selecting an all time favourite here to get the decision. This would have been a great fight.:good - a great matchup and good analysis - I wonder why no one has come up with this(unless I have missed one as such).

[thesandman]

Even money fight IMO.

I saw Johnny Lewis (KT's trainer) before the Floyd fight saying why he thought FLoyd would win.

He said he'd watched him a lot because of KT obviously, but in a nutshell, ODLH was a very good boxer, but had power in 1 hand only, and tended to fade late in big fights.

He said look for the left, and keep ODLH fighting for 3 minutes a round, and the late rounds are there to be taken. I think the analysis above is spot on. KT would take most of the late rounds, so really, the question is, how many of the early / mid rounds would go to ODLH or KT.

this fight IMO, is one in the hands of the judges. This could be a wide UD either way, or a SD, depending on what the judge prefers.

Don't really see a KO either way here to be honest. KT has the better chance, but ODLH has a good chin.

[tays001]

DLH too big too strong. i think style wise dlh is a bad math up for kosta. dlh has the speed and power . also has a pretty solid chin. over all just a better fighter i say dlh stops him in 10 left hook vs the straight right . i say the reackh is a big factor

[Robbi]

De La Hoya on points.

[chimba]

Id go with kotzya..A little more pop and Im going with history.. I love DLH but when was the last time he came out on top in fights such as this.

[chimba]

He beat fighters on that level, and honestly, when did Kostya ever beat someone like DLH?

I dont know what Kostya would have done but we all know DLH history right? I like DLH and actually if it werent for ESB posters constantly pointing it out I wouldnt have realized that he lost every big fight he was in. I believe he won the Tito fight but He lost to Sturm

[WhataRock]

As much as a love KT and am indifferent to DLH, I just cant see Kostya taking this one out.

KT has had real problems with guys who possess certain attributes of De La Hoya. Pineda, Hurtado, Urkal had his height..Phillips had his power and probably his chin aswell..Take all the moments Kostya struggled with Judah and Mitchell's speed, and place a guy who can take a shot in there.
Put all those together with experience, and you've got De La Hoya at 140.

One thing though is that De La Hoya did not possess the styles of Phillips, Hatton or Urkal that KT had so much trouble with. KT could hunt down movers.

I think Oscar would win this by decision however, I think both fade late but De La Hoya would have built up a big lead and Kostya would be unable to wrestle the fight away from him once he was tired.

[41fever]

i think the russian aussie takes a decision, @140 in his prime he was hard to beat, he could deal with DLH superior height...he beat Forrest in the Olympics

[tays001]

He beat fighters on that level, and honestly, when did Kostya ever beat someone like DLH?

very true i love both fighter big fan of both but i got to go with the one thats proven him slf more plus DLH just gots the size and sped atvantage KT would be punching upwards not straight down the pipe. DLH would see it coming dlh fights tall in this fight and get the win

[Jose FM]

:yikes :yikes :yikes :yikes :yikes

Wow, you guys really hate on Oscar "i was a complete beast @ 140 and Tzysu had the perfect style for me to knock out" De La Hoya!!!!

Im sorry Tzysu has my respect but prime DLH kills him, Tzysu would have tried to fight DLH flat footed and DLH would have just eaten him up.... Tzysu had power but nothing that would have hurt DLH, he had accuracy but at 140 DLH was very fast and strong, and if Kostya was depending on that DLH would have knocked him out no question.:deal

[brooklyn1550]

:yikes :yikes :yikes :yikes :yikes

Wow, you guys really hate on Oscar "i was a complete beast @ 140 and Tzysu had the perfect style for me to knock out" De La Hoya!!!!

Im sorry Tzysu has my respect but prime DLH kills him, Tzysu would have tried to fight DLH flat footed and DLH would have just eaten him up.... Tzysu had power but nothing that would have hurt DLH, he had accuracy but at 140 DLH was very fast and strong, and if Kosta was depending on that DLH would have knocked him out no question.:deal

If Tszyu lands that right hand flush, and it's not out of the question due to his great timing, anybody could be hurt....De La Hoya included.

[MSTR]

If Tszyu lands that right hand flush, and it's not out of the question due to his great timing, anybody could be hurt....De La Hoya included.
Oscar was always wide open to be hit with right hand too, as he leans his head forwards when he jabs. Kostya would have gone right hand happy in this one, and tagged Oscar a lot with it. Bot have their respective strengths. Kostya, like most European fighters, isn't as effective when guys don't give him room for his power. De la hoya would win the exchanges on the inside with his superior combinations. However, Oscar is often not effective with his pressure. He isn't like Hatton who gets right in on your chest, and often times sits back at jabbing range, waiting to come in behind his punches. This would suit Kostya perfectly, and I see him just being to accurate for Oscar. Oscar had a very good chin at 140 though, and would be tough to hurt. I can see this being an exciting war, and a fairly close fight. The fact that Kostya had one of the best fight hands we have seen in the past decade though, and that De la hoya was always open to this punch means I have to go with Kostya on this one.

[compukiller]

DLH by late TKO. Oscar's jab, footwork, and workrate get him out of early trouble.

And Oscar's left hook is very powerful.

[Thread Stealer]

I'd lean towards Oscar.

It would by no means be an easy fight for Oscar. Tszyu was an intelligent fighter with a good sense of distance and timing. He used to have pretty good handspeed as well. He was good at timing quick fighters, especially lefties, which Oscar is not (or doesn't fight southpaw stance). His straight right hand was great, and that punch more than any other is the one Oscar's most suspectible to.

Tszyu didn't have very good head movement. He had decent defensive skills, but would still be a target for Oscar's great left hand. DLH is also quicker of hand and foot. I think DLH's jab would be very key, and be the main weapon in winning a close decision.

[standing 8]

De La Hoya by decision.

[MSTR]

Wow, honestly wasn't expecting Kostya to be in the lead. I got DLH by stoppage, but more likely a Decision now that I think about it.
Its a tough fight to call. Oscar had pretty quick hand speed at 140, quicker then KT anyway. Most times Oscar could be pretty flat footed though (bar the Trinidad fight) and this would allow Kostya to really time him well and play into his hands. Oscar would most probably take the earlier rounds, but I can see Kostya landing more and more as the bout goes on, and his power starting to take his toll. Regardless of how good your chin is, getting hit with that sort of power will still wear you down.

[Chicago Nights]

ODLH.

Not even close.

[Jose FM]

If Tszyu lands that right hand flush, and it's not out of the question due to his great timing, anybody could be hurt....De La Hoya included.
Whats the counter to a straight right?

A left hook... Who had the best left hook at 140 if not the entire biz during lets say '98?

DLH, specially at that weight class where DLH had speed?

Besides, DLH has an underrated defense, head movement, and specially chin. So the chances of landing flush are too freakish to actually happen.

[MSTR]

As much as a love KT and am indifferent to DLH, I just cant see Kostya taking this one out.

KT has had real problems with guys who possess certain attributes of De La Hoya. Pineda, Hurtado, Urkal had his height..Phillips had his power and probably his chin aswell..Take all the moments Kostya struggled with Judah and Mitchell's speed, and place a guy who can take a shot in there.
Put all those together with experience, and you've got De La Hoya at 140.

One thing though is that De La Hoya did not possess the styles of Phillips, Hatton or Urkal that KT had so much trouble with. KT could hunt down movers.

I think Oscar would win this by decision however, I think both fade late but De La Hoya would have built up a big lead and Kostya would be unable to wrestle the fight away from him once he was tired.
Kostya never struggled with Hurtardo for one. He got wreckless, before going on to dominate him and finish him early. Urkal was more because he was so physically strong, same with Phillips. Kostya had problems against these guys because he wouldn't fight smart and out box them and counter punch, but would rather try to out muscle them. Kostya was stronger then Oscar, and it wouldn't have been a problem. Oscar isn't a fighter in the same mould as these guys either.

[thesandman]

Whats the counter to a straight right?

A left hook... Who had the best left hook at 140 if not the entire biz during lets say '98?

DLH, specially at that weight class where DLH had speed?

Besides, DLH has an underrated defense, head movement, and specially chin. So the chances of landing flush are too freakish to actually happen.

And who had the best straight right in the business?

I think that anyone, EITHER WAY, that can state either guy would win easy is quite simply, an idiot. Blind to the abilities of either fighter.

[cuchulain]

This is a pick'em fight.

Oscar was just a tad more polished. Either guy has KO possibility, Kostya moreso.

If it ended inside the distance, It would probably have been a victory for Kostya. I tend to think it would have gone the distance with Oscar getting a very close and controversial decision.

[Napoleon]

Amersterdam, that is a terrific avatar. :good

Tszyu by stoppage.

[MSTR]

I'd say Tszyu was more flat-footed for sure than Oscar. Oscar had very little head movement, so it was really his footwork that did him well in the defensive department. Also, Oscar's reach and jab could be a problem at long distance for Kostya. In the early rounds Kostya was one who liked to blast, but I think DLH's footwork, which I think you're selling short, and ability to keep the fight at a distance, as well as his own power, would do him well in keeping it on even terms early and I think he'd pick up and gain the advantage around mid fight. Also, his chin is better proven than Kostya's.
IMO both guys are flat footed and both have good chins. Oscar could move, as could Kostya, but both where more effective when they really sat down on their punches. Oscar would be the better mover IMO, but not enough to trouble KT at all. I think that Oscar would probably plant the feet and look to throw combinations inside and land that left hook. Both guys would be looking to time each other.

[tays001]

I'd say Tszyu was more flat-footed for sure than Oscar. Oscar had very little head movement, so it was really his footwork that did him well in the defensive department. Also, Oscar's reach and jab could be a problem at long distance for Kostya. In the early rounds Kostya was one who liked to blast, but I think DLH's footwork, which I think you're selling short, and ability to keep the fight at a distance, as well as his own power, would do him well in keeping it on even terms early and I think he'd pick up and gain the advantage around mid fight. Also, his chin is better proven than Kostya's.


right on the mark sweet pea:good

[WhataRock]

Kostya never struggled with Hurtardo for one. He got wreckless, before going on to dominate him and finish him early. Urkal was more because he was so physically strong, same with Phillips. Kostya had problems against these guys because he wouldn't fight smart and out box them and counter punch, but would rather try to out muscle them. Kostya was stronger then Oscar, and it wouldn't have been a problem. Oscar isn't a fighter in the same mould as these guys either.

Thats the thing with Hurtado and Urkal he was getting caught trying to cover the ground, because they were the taller fighter.
Pro Kostya didnt have consistent head movement like he did in the pros, in every fight he got caught by something silly.
It happened for all to see, its just Hurtado had no chin to hang with Tszyu and Urkal had no power to keep him off.

As I stated MSTR its the attributes of these fighters that gave KT trouble, but they didnt have it all and one thing or another prevented them from taking the advantage.

Oscar had it all speed, skill, a pretty good chin, power, the size and he was all round a polished fighter by then.
I dont think Kostya would have been all that much stronger than DLH, it would be marginal at best. KT never left 140 but DLH took on and beat some bigger and stronger fighters all the way to 154.

[Napoleon]

Stoppage my ass. If he wins, it certainly wouldn't be like that.

Probably not.

But it was 11 votes for Oscar by decision and 7 by stoppage. For Tszyu it was 11 votes for decision and 6 for stoppage. I had to vote for stoppage.:lol:

[tays001]

Probably not.

But it was 11 votes for Oscar by decision and 7 by stoppage. For Tszyu it was 11 votes for decision and 6 for stoppage. I had to vote for stoppage.:lol:

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

so the number are fixed :D

[pugilistspecialist]

DLH dominated 130-140 and really didnt struggle until he got to 147. Kostya was the man at 140 for a longtime but never fought as many great fighters as DLH. Also DLH dominated shorter fighter. He could counter outside throw his jab and turn left hooks to the head and body. KT was very good. Euro-style but great reflexes(people forget how he used to evade punches hands down) early on in his prime and a sledgehammer right hand. DLH has the faster hands, KT hits a lil harder, and DLH would dominate inside and out.Not in the same class.

[thesandman]

If the bums Vince Phillips and Rickey Hatton were able to KO Tzu, imagine what Oscar would do to him. It wouldn't even be competitive.:patsch

That's like saying if a guy like Sturm can outbox ODLH, KT would murder him.

Fucking pointless.

[Robbi]

I'd say Tszyu was more flat-footed for sure than Oscar. Oscar had very little head movement, so it was really his footwork that did him well in the defensive department. Also, Oscar's reach and jab could be a problem at long distance for Kostya. In the early rounds Kostya was one who liked to blast, but I think DLH's footwork, which I think you're selling short, and ability to keep the fight at a distance, as well as his own power, would do him well in keeping it on even terms early and I think he'd pick up and gain the advantage around mid fight. Also, his chin is better proven than Kostya's.

De La Hoya showed nice upperbody movement at 140lbs. He was very flexible from the waist upwards. And who can forget his ramrod jab against Gonzalez. I do agree, Tszyu doesn't have the same mobility around the ring as De La Hoya. A wide stance was something Tszyu always needed to feel comfortable for his throwing power punches. Its debatable that Tszyu could hit as hard as someone like Quartey, who dropped De La Hoya and had him wobbled on a few occassions. But De La Hoya showed a granite chin during the 9th round, when Quartey smacked him with a monster right hand.

De La Hoya throws better combinations than Tszyu, and I feel his jab is more consistent. I'd have to pick De La Hoya to win on points. Not too sure he'd have the power to get Tszyu outta there. We would need to be talking about someone with Trinidad or Hearns when it comes to knocking out Tszyu. Although thats not really a fair comparison, as they were stricly welterweight terrorists with their hands.

[MSTR]

De La Hoya showed nice upperbody movement at 140lbs. He was very flexible from the waist upwards. And who can forget his ramrod jab against Gonzalez. I do agree, Tszyu doesn't have the same mobility around the ring as De La Hoya. A wide stance was something Tszyu always needed to feel comfortable for his throwing power punches. Its debatable that Tszyu could hit as hard as someone like Quartey, who dropped De La Hoya and had him wobbled on a few occassions. But De La Hoya showed a granite chin during the 9th round, when Quartey smacked him with a monster right hand.

De La Hoya throws better combinations than Tszyu, and I feel his jab is more consistent. I'd have to pick De La Hoya to win on points. Not too sure he'd have the power to get Tszyu outta there. We would need to be talking about someone with Trinidad or Hearns when it comes to knocking out Tszyu. Although thats not really a fair comparison, as they were stricly welterweight terrorists with their hands.
Kostya's performance against Gonzalez was much more dominant. Kt definitely had more power then Quartey as well, who primarily lived off his jab.

[MSTR]

Thats the thing with Hurtado and Urkal he was getting caught trying to cover the ground, because they were the taller fighter.
Pro Kostya didnt have consistent head movement like he did in the pros, in every fight he got caught by something silly.
It happened for all to see, its just Hurtado had no chin to hang with Tszyu and Urkal had no power to keep him off.

As I stated MSTR its the attributes of these fighters that gave KT trouble, but they didnt have it all and one thing or another prevented them from taking the advantage.

Oscar had it all speed, skill, a pretty good chin, power, the size and he was all round a polished fighter by then.
I dont think Kostya would have been all that much stronger than DLH, it would be marginal at best. KT never left 140 but DLH took on and beat some bigger and stronger fighters all the way to 154.
Kostya was a very polished technician though, I think you are under estimating him. Kostya was just as well rounded. Great power, good chin, well rounded, decent hand speed. De la Hoya was a great fighter, I just think style wise Kostya takes this out. Oscar leaning forward with that chin would have been target practice for the KT right hand. I can see both fighter landing there fair share of punches, just with KT being more accurate over the stretch.

[errsta]

Hard to say. You know what you're getting with Tszyu, so it depends how Oscar approaches the fight. At 130-135, DLH was a more of a puncher. 147-160 he was more of a boxer. At 140, he was pretty balanced.

If he fought the same way he beat MAGo (Miguel Angel Gonzalez) I think he takes Tszyu. He would have to mix it up, though. If he primarily boxes, he gets timed. If he primarily punches, I'm not sure Oscar lands the heavier shots, although he very well could.

I'm picking Oscar, but it's far from a sure thing either way.

:good

[Mind Reader]

I think Kostya would win a close fight.

[CarltonBlues]

Oscar would whoop him and take him out late.

[cuchulain]

If Oscar decided to wear high heels instead of Puma boxing shoes, he would be at a disadvantage.

You still got any of Oscar's old high hells 'kicking' around your place, Jack?

Do they still have enough left to excite your nose (and other things) ?

And where were you these past few days?

Missed you !

[ozziebattler]

Whats the counter to a straight right?

A left hook... Who had the best left hook at 140 if not the entire biz during lets say '98?

DLH, specially at that weight class where DLH had speed?

Besides, DLH has an underrated defense, head movement, and specially chin. So the chances of landing flush are too freakish to actually happen.



Mayweather i would say has freakish defence not oscar...

I dont really know who would win but i do know that we wouldnt be seeing a ko..points victory for whoever wants it the most...

[WhataRock]

Kostya was a very polished technician though, I think you are under estimating him. Kostya was just as well rounded. Great power, good chin, well rounded, decent hand speed. De la Hoya was a great fighter, I just think style wise Kostya takes this out. Oscar leaning forward with that chin would have been target practice for the KT right hand. I can see both fighter landing there fair share of punches, just with KT being more accurate over the stretch.


As good as he was though his opposition cant hold a candle to De La Hoyas.

We KNOW Oscar can win big fights, against quality opposition and against varying styles.

I think its all speculation to think KT can handle a fighter like De La Hoya @ 140 based on his record. And I think its stretching it to think his tangible abilities were that good that it could trump anything that De la Hoya can do, especially since we have seen Oscar in action against such a high calibre of opp.

[Relentless]

kostya is overrated.

[China_hand_Joe]

I love this thread. Half the American's picking Oscar are spelling Tszyu wrong, which is probably an accurate representation of their knowledge on non-American fighters.

Even those who realise KT wins, will say "Oscar by controversial decison." This is either a positive, in that they recognise hpw corrupt Oscar is or they might just be that desperate to pick the American.

Oscar would need to stop KT late on, where he going to win. KT should however be a massive favorite.




Just look at how even this poll is. When a poll is that equal, and one fighter is Amercian and one is Russian-Mongol-Korean based in Australia, the reality of the situation is the Mongolian will win.

American promoted fighters always lose what are percieved as 50/50 fights against fighters without an American promoter. 50/50 means more like 85/15 once you take out the default votes from the Americanised fools.

[DanePugilist]

:lol: - come now, CHJ. This is a pick'em fight, but I do like the fact that you don't approve of democracy.

[China_hand_Joe]

It is a rule of the thumb. A really reliable one too, American promoted/based/named fighters lose 'percieved 50/50' bouts against non-American promoted/based/named fighters.

Oscar has perhaps a slight stylistic edge but he is so, so inferior to the great Tszyu, whom is one of the best 10 or 20 fighters of all time.

[DanePugilist]

It is a rule of the thumb. A really reliable one too, American promoted/based/named fighters lose 'percieved 50/50' bouts against non-American promoted/based/named fighters.

Oscar has perhaps a slight stylistic edge but he is so, so inferior to the great Tszyu, whom is one of the best 10 or 20 fighters of all time.I don't know about that rule of thumb, but I'll take your word for it. US boxers are generally more "hyped up" compared to non-US boxers. Maybe its because of Americans being so much better at marketing, that they can sell sand in Sahara or water on Antarctica?

They both had great assets, that were superior to the other. I picked Tzsyu, but I believe picking Oscar is valid as well. Maybe I just don't know enough - I were just amazed with prime Oscar, when I first saw him vs danish technician Jimmy Bredahl, that I was sold, and him dismantling Chavez - blew me away - even if the background was a bit painted.

[Wilhelm]

I picked DLH by stoppage, and I'm a BIG Tszyu fan. At 140 DLH is just too big, too fast and hits too hard for Tszyu. I don't think Tszyu, for all his great accuracy and timing, would have been able to get inside DLH's jab. After a while I see DLH landing enough to stop him. Would have been a decent fight, but I don't see Tszyu winning this at all.

[China_hand_Joe]

They both had great assets, that were superior to the other. I picked Tzsyu, but I believe picking Oscar is valid as well. Maybe I just don't know enough - I were just amazed with prime Oscar, when I first saw him vs danish technician Jimmy Bredahl, that I was sold, and him dismantling Chavez - blew me away - even if the background was a bit painted.

I was never blown away by Tszyu. But watching him fight fills one with a sense of greater well-being and state of total understanding, approaching enlightenment.

Any talentless clown can try and emulate Oscar, but Tszyu, with his timing, his accuracy.. Less than 1% of world class fighters can even dream of copying him.

But don't worry, this evening plenty of Americans will log on a ruin the poll.

[DanePugilist]

I was never blown away by Tszyu. But watching him fight fills one with a sense of greater well-being and state of total understanding, approaching enlightenment.

Any talentless clown can try and emulate Oscar, but Tszyu, with his timing, his accuracy.. Less than 1% of world class fighters can even dream of copying him.

But don't worry, this evening plenty of Americans will log on a ruin the poll.Good argument, and pretty much the reason why I picked Kostya Tzsyu; it would be very hard for Oscar to prepare for what he would face, while Kostya could. Then there is the old point of precision negates speed. In Oscars defence he could put alot of pressure on boxers - by not only using speed, but also wide range of shots.

[Amsterdam]

I picked DLH by stoppage, and I'm a BIG Tszyu fan. At 140 DLH is just too big, too fast and hits too hard for Tszyu. I don't think Tszyu, for all his great accuracy and timing, would have been able to get inside DLH's jab. After a while I see DLH landing enough to stop him. Would have been a decent fight, but I don't see Tszyu winning this at all.

Fair enough, I feel though that DLH's all time standing is heavily overrated, they act as if he's a top 50 ATG. Tszyu could very well have won a fight down the stretch by timing the bigger shots on a stamina fading DLH.

[Wilhelm]

Fair enough, I feel though that DLH's all time standing is heavily overrated, they act as if he's a top 50 ATG. Tszyu could very well have won a fight down the stretch by timing the bigger shots on a stamina fading DLH.

Bigger guys like Quartey and Trinidad and Mosley and roided Vargas didn't do what you're suggesting. I don't see how Tszyu would have been able to, especially considering how totally unbeatable DLH was at that weight.

[Robbi]

Kostya's performance against Gonzalez was much more dominant. Kt definitely had more power then Quartey as well, who primarily lived off his jab.

Quartey also lived off his right hand. Does Tszyu dominating Gonzalez more than De La Hoya mean that Tszyu would beat De La Hoya?.

[Amsterdam]

Bigger guys like Quartey and Trinidad and Mosley and roided Vargas didn't do what you're suggesting. I don't see how Tszyu would have been able to, especially considering how totally unbeatable DLH was at that weight.

Unbeatable at that weight? He still showed stamina issue's, wasn't fully filled out yet. Trinidad, Mosely and Quartey don't have Tszyu's style, Quartey is the closest but it's still a bad comparison.

In fact, Tszyu over Mosely would be a good pick IMO. Mosely's always open to a great counter shot, but I do realise that most people will go with Shane on that one.

[Rumsfeld]

I like Kostua Tszyu via late round stoppage.

:smoke

[Tettsuo]

Oscar by late KO.

Tzsyu is seriously overrated on this forum. Oscar is the bigger, stronger man in this fight with superior speed and power. Skillwise I'd say they're about the same, but that's where it ends.

Doesn't Oscar have the greater reach? If so, Tzsyu would have a tough time on the outside trying to land the right hand as Oscar would catch him with the left hook reaching in.

[China_hand_Joe]

Look at some of the rubbish Mosely was able to land on Oscar.

Tszyu's accuracy and timing humiliates him to the point where Oscar quits boxing all together.

It would be almost comical to watch after the American predictions before the fight.

[Rumsfeld]

How many here think that if Oscar had fought Tszyu back in the day, that he would be wearing a pink thong under his boxing trunks?

:rofl

[Thread Stealer]

Bigger guys like Quartey and Trinidad and Mosley and roided Vargas didn't do what you're suggesting. I don't see how Tszyu would have been able to, especially considering how totally unbeatable DLH was at that weight.

Not losing in a grand total of 3 bouts hardly shows someone being "unbeatable". Everyone is beatable. Not to mention that a prime Tszyu is certainly better than the likes of Darryl Tyson, MAGO, and a faded (but still good) Chavez.

It's a tough fight for both guys.

[Alo2006]

DLH late TKO

[Robbi]

Kostya's performance against Gonzalez was much more dominant. Kt definitely had more power then Quartey as well, who primarily lived off his jab.

Quartey knocked out Phillips in 3 rounds, and Tszyu couldn't wobble him over 10 rounds and lost.

[Robbi]

Not losing in a grand total of 3 bouts hardly shows someone being "unbeatable". Everyone is beatable. Not to mention that a prime Tszyu is certainly better than the likes of Darryl Tyson, MAGO, and a faded (but still good) Chavez.

It's a tough fight for both guys.

Yeah, De La Hoya being unbeatable is like saying he could have defeated anyone in the divisions history. Better to say "De La Hoya was unbeaten at 140lbs".

[Pimp C]

Oscar was too big and strong not to mention speed, jab, defense and Oscar's power was good at 147 and below. Also I don't think Oscar would be seriously bothered by Zoo's power but I think Oscar would hurt Zoo. Oscar by UD:deal

[Relentless]

why do people overrate kostya so much?

i remember 3 years ago i was comparing miguel cotto to kostya tszyu here and some guy comes on here and says...

"dude, please dont compare this rookie to an atg as kostya tszyu"

it went on like that for some time until hatton beat him, what the hell has kostya done? the best fighters he beat are zab judah and sharmba mitchell.

[KhanB]

why do people overrate kostya so much?

i remember 3 years ago i was comparing miguel cotto to kostya tszyu here and some guy comes on here and says...

"dude, please dont compare this rookie to an atg as kostya tszyu"

it went on like that for some time until hatton beat him, what the hell has kostya done? the best fighters he beat are zab judah and sharmba mitchell.

Look at the way he beat them. Early knockouts and i picked Tszyu to lose both those fights. He also dominated Gonzalez and Tackie who were both well respected along with Hurtado.

[Relentless]

Look at the way he beat them. Early knockouts and i picked Tszyu to lose both those fights. He also dominated Gonzalez and Tackie who were both well respected along with Hurtado.

yeah, but who the hell are they?

zab judah might have been good but sharmba mitchell is a sparring partner, tackie, gonzalez and hurtado might have been respected but are they the type of competition that puts him in an atg status that cant be compared to a young miguel cotto?

[KhanB]

yeah, but who the hell are they?

zab judah might have been good but sharmba mitchell is a sparring partner, tackie, gonzalez and hurtado might have been respected but are they the type of competition that puts him in an atg status that cant be compared to a young miguel cotto?

Id say you can compare a young cotto to tszyu, not the other way around. Cotto's biggest win was against a guy Tszyu took out in two rounds and was undefeated. Mitchell was holding 140 down that whole time Tszyu was dealing with injuries and had a long win streak. He didnt become a sparring partner until Tszyu destroyed him.

[uppa kut]

Wow, good question! This is the closest poll thread i have seen! I would lean slightly towards Kostya/late stoppage as i think he is the bigger banger of the two. However, i could see any of the poll sceneraios happening....

[PR Boxing Lore]

DLH by decision or late stoppage.

[Relentless]

Id say you can compare a young cotto to tszyu, not the other way around. Cotto's biggest win was against a guy Tszyu took out in two rounds and was undefeated. Mitchell was holding 140 down that whole time Tszyu was dealing with injuries and had a long win streak. He didnt become a sparring partner until Tszyu destroyed him.

you didn't get my point, tszyu is considered an ATG, but for what?beating mitchell and judah?

and judah might have also been cotto's best win but cotto isn't considered an atg like tszyu is,

and also lets not forget that the judah fight was just a stay busy fight while cotto waited for margarito, and cotto's still young, he is fighting a guy next who is far greater than tszyu ever will be.

and when the hell was mitchell holding down the 140 division?? he was a wba belt holder.

[KhanB]

you didn't get my point, tszyu is considered an ATG, but for what?beating mitchell and judah?

and judah might have also been cotto's best win but cotto isn't considered an atg like tszyu is,

and also lets not forget that the judah fight was just a stay busy fight while cotto waited for margarito, and cotto's still young, he is fighting a guy next who is far greater than tszyu ever will be.

and when the hell was mitchell holding down the 140 division?? he was a wba belt holder.

Mitchell beat NDou and Tackie and didnt appear to be ducking anybody. I think he was also favored to beat Tszyu since Tszyu hadnt fought in almost 2 years. I dont think Tszyu could beat a prime Chavez, Mosley, or Pryor but is still very hard to beat. I could make the same argument about DLH being an ATG since he never clearly beat somebody who was thought to be his equal or greater but im tired of picking on Goldie. Id say Tszyu is HOF for sure but shouldve avenged his loss to Phillips so he's borderline ATG.

[jecxbox]

First of all this fight would have been completely amazing.. DLH is a big strong fighter but honestly as far as strategy towards his big fights, hes basically screwed up time and time again. I don't doubt for 1 bit that Kostya Tzsyu could have won a decision win on DLH..He was an amazing fighter and I think Kostya could have picked his shots with DLH to get enough rounds to win the fight. I don't see Kostya KO'n DLH though, I can see KT knocking him down or stunning him but not KO. If Quartey gave DLH hell why couldn't a much more talented KT do the same?

[Robbi]

Oscar by late KO.

Tzsyu is seriously overrated on this forum. Oscar is the bigger, stronger man in this fight with superior speed and power. Skillwise I'd say they're about the same, but that's where it ends.

Doesn't Oscar have the greater reach? If so, Tzsyu would have a tough time on the outside trying to land the right hand as Oscar would catch him with the left hook reaching in.

De La Hoya and Tszyu are about the same size at 140lbs. Obviously De La Hoya has a longer reach and he's taller as well. But the kind of size I'm talking about, weight. I can say without question, De La Hoya never struggled to make 140lbs at any point. When he moved up and challenged Whitaker, it was not down to weight making difficulties. And trust me, because I read many quotes from Steward when he was hired as De La Hoya's trainer after the Whitaker fight. The Whitaker challenge was all about money and it was a marquee fight, also other big money spinners were around. Trinidad and Quartey. Bigger purses for De La Hoya at welterweight. Nothing to do with De La Hoya struggling at 140lbs.

De La Hoya without a shadow of a doubt is quicker, but he's not as powerful at 140lbs than Tszyu. I will not make a comparison on De La Hoya not dropping Chavez while Tszyu did, as Chavez was even more worn and shot when he fought Tszyu. But lets be serious here, Tszyu hits harder than De La Hoya at 140lbs.

Skillwise, De La Hoya over Tszyu. A much versatile fighter, and he has much better variety in terms of combinations.

[BoppaZoo]

you didn't get my point, tszyu is considered an ATG, but for what?beating mitchell and judah?

and judah might have also been cotto's best win but cotto isn't considered an atg like tszyu is,

and also lets not forget that the judah fight was just a stay busy fight while cotto waited for margarito, and cotto's still young, he is fighting a guy next who is far greater than tszyu ever will be.

and when the hell was mitchell holding down the 140 division?? he was a wba belt holder.The more you go on about how much better Cotto is compared to Tszyu the more you sound like a complete idiot.

All is invain because at the end of the day Relentless Cotto would have been brutally butt raped by KT because Cotto's chin is well as good as Judah's.
What took Cotto 11 rounds and two times getting stumbled by a not even in the same league Zab as when Tszyu fought Zab it took KT all of 2 rounds.

Just shut up already.

Mosley is going to shut Cotto up.
Can i just add though i like Cotto and iam a fan but when you make out to be like a god when he is more like and up and coming fighter yet to prove what really we will see out of him when it is all said and done.

Also may i add i feel Tszyu best win wasnt against Zab because Judah was perfectly style wise made for KT but i feel KT's best win was against Gonzalez who Tszyu was the only man to ever stop Gonzalez and it is something not even ODH could do.

[Relentless]

The more you go on about how much better Cotto is compared to Tszyu the more you sound like a complete idiot.

All is invain because at the end of the day Relentless Cotto would have been brutally butt raped by KT because Cotto's chin is well as good as Judah's.
What took Cotto 11 rounds and two times getting stumbled by a not even in the same league Zab as when Tszyu fought Zab it took KT all of 2 rounds.

Just shut up already.

Mosley is going to shut Cotto up.

you should get kostya's cum off of your eyes or maybe get glasses, one or the other will do, i never once said cotto is better than kostya:deal

read through my posts again,

3 years ago i was comparing a young up and coming cotto to kostya tszyu and someone (probably you) started flaming me for daring to compare a "rookie" to an atg like tszyu.

now i was wondering why is kostya so great and incomparable? what has he done to be regarded so highly?

and then khanb replied that kostya destroyed cotto's best win in 2 rounds, which was out of the question, because i didn't say cotto is better than kostya and so i pointed out how judah was just a tune up to margarito and cotto is still young and has many fights ahead of him and is going to fight a fighter who is classes above kostya in his next fight.

shane mosley might beat cotto, but there is no shame in that, mosley is a true atg unlike the foney tszyu who got hammered by vincent philip.

tszyu shouldn't actually be in the same sentance as mosley if you think about it.

now go back to sucking your cocksickle kid:hi:

[Relentless]

Can i just add though i like Cotto and iam a fan but when you make out to be like a god

just like you make kostya out to be?

[China_hand_Joe]

Tszyu definitely beats Mosley mate. Mosley isn't a pressure fighter and he'd never have been able to cope with anything like Tszyu's right hand.

[Relentless]

Tszyu definitely beats Mosley mate. Mosley isn't a pressure fighter and he'd never have been able to cope with anything like Tszyu's right hand.

mosley can pressure when he wants to, tszyu has never faced a fighter with the power and speed of mosley, tszyu right hand was famous for knocking out a glass chinned judah, mosley took oscars left hooks with no problem, he took winky wrights shots aswell.

[MSTR]

As good as he was though his opposition cant hold a candle to De La Hoyas.

We KNOW Oscar can win big fights, against quality opposition and against varying styles.

I think its all speculation to think KT can handle a fighter like De La Hoya @ 140 based on his record. And I think its stretching it to think his tangible abilities were that good that it could trump anything that De la Hoya can do, especially since we have seen Oscar in action against such a high calibre of opp.
Opposition has nothing to do with it though. Absolutely nothing, we are talking head to head match up here. And you say you KNOW that Oscar can win big fights, but he lost twice to Mosley, lost to Trinidad, lost to B Hop and lost to Floyd. Probably the 5 biggest fights of his career and he lost all of them. Point to a couple of contraversial decisions if you want, but it goes both ways (Sturm, Pea ect). Kostya proved against Gonzalez, Prime Mitchell, Judah ect that he was a class above these high calibre opponents.

[Fab2333]

I dont know what Kostya would have done but we all know DLH history right? I like DLH and actually if it werent for ESB posters constantly pointing it out I wouldnt have realized that he lost every big fight he was in. I believe he won the Tito fight but He lost to Sturm

hE SURE AS HELL LOST TO SWEET PEA, BUT FOR THE RECORD HE DIDNT

[BoppaZoo]

mosley can pressure when he wants to, tszyu has never faced a fighter with the power and speed of mosley, tszyu right hand was famous for knocking out a glass chinned judah, mosley took oscars left hooks with no problem, he took winky wrights shots aswell.You are starting to sound idiotic. Shut up already will you its only getting worse.

[Relentless]

Opposition has nothing to do with it though. Absolutely nothing, we are talking head to head match up here. And you say you KNOW that Oscar can win big fights, but he lost twice to Mosley, lost to Trinidad, lost to B Hop and lost to Floyd. Probably the 5 biggest fights of his career and he lost all of them. Point to a couple of contraversial decisions if you want, but it goes both ways (Sturm, Pea ect). Kostya proved against Gonzalez, Prime Mitchell, Judah ect that he was a class above these high calibre opponents.

judah, mitchell and gonzales dont compare to trinidad, Bhop, floyd and mosley - these guys are all atg's

[Relentless]

You are starting to sound idiotic. Shut up already will you its only getting worse.

no i do not sound idiotic, it just i'm telling the truth and truth hurts.

[Kolya]

yeah, but who the hell are they?

zab judah might have been good but sharmba mitchell is a sparring partner, tackie, gonzalez and hurtado might have been respected but are they the type of competition that puts him in an atg status that cant be compared to a young miguel cotto?

Who the hell are you? Sharmba Mitchell is a sparring partner? Seriously, dude, get a grip. Ba was a good fighter in his day, he was fast and threw good combos and had good skills; and Tszyu flattened him. Not to mention, Kostya was coming off like two severe injuries and had been inactive for about 18 months when he destroyed Sharmba, and near every expert was picking a Sharmba decision. Seriously, just because Tszyu disposed of him easy doesn't mean the mans a bum. Now go nuthug Miguel in one of his threads.

[MSTR]

Quartey also lived off his right hand. Does Tszyu dominating Gonzalez more than De La Hoya mean that Tszyu would beat De La Hoya?.
NO, but you pointed to Oscar's performance against Gonzalez as the way he would beat Tszyu. IMO not really relevant considering KT smashed Gonzalez and stopped him. BTW Quartey lived primarily off the jab. Kostya has a better right hand then Ike no question.

[MSTR]

judah, mitchell and gonzales dont compare to trinidad, Bhop, floyd and mosley - these guys are all atg's
Smashing three top guys is far better though then losing to those four mentioned. Surely you realise that?

[Relentless]

Who the hell are you? Sharmba Mitchell is a sparring partner? Seriously, dude, get a grip. Ba was a good fighter in his day, he was fast and threw good combos and had good skills; and Tszyu flattened him. Not to mention, Kostya was coming off like two severe injuries and had been inactive for about 18 months when he destroyed Sharmba, and near every expert was picking a Sharmba decision. Seriously, just because Tszyu disposed of him easy doesn't mean the mans a bum. Now go nuthug Miguel in one of his threads.

:| :|

what bit you on the ass.

[MSTR]

Quartey knocked out Phillips in 3 rounds, and Tszyu couldn't wobble him over 10 rounds and lost.
Kostya definitely hurt Phillips and landed some big shots, so don't try to make out as if Phillips was never bothered. Kosya fought a very bad fight and lost. Style wise he never matched up well to Phillips, as Phillips was a bigger, stronger guy then him, which is Kostya's biggest weakness.

[China_hand_Joe]

mosley can pressure when he wants to, tszyu has never faced a fighter with the power and speed of mosley, tszyu right hand was famous for knocking out a glass chinned judah, mosley took oscars left hooks with no problem, he took winky wrights shots aswell.

Tszyu has one of the most accurate, well timed rights in history.

Tszyu is arguably one of the ten best fighters to ever lace up the gloves.

[Fab2333]

Tszyu has one of the most accurate, well timed rights in history.

Tszyu is arguably one of the ten best fighters to ever lace up the gloves.

With that statementwho do youhave as your top 10?

[Kolya]

:| :|

what bit you on the ass.

Someone who has fuck all boxing experience talking shit about someone who's from my area and used to have the same trainer as I did. Was Ba an ATG? No, but he was a damn good fighter when he was younger.

[Dekkers]

Tszyu has one of the most accurate, well timed rights in history.

Tszyu is arguably one of the ten best fighters to ever lace up the gloves.

Tszyu is always great to watch on film, one of those guys that jumps out as being spectacular.

[BoppaZoo]

With that statementwho do youhave as your top 10?I think he is talking talent wise not just Pro.

Amatuers-Pro-Counterpunching,Cutting off the ring-Right Cross-Left Hook- Smart- Skilled- jab. I think he means in all areas.

[Robbi]

NO, but you pointed to Oscar's performance against Gonzalez as the way he would beat Tszyu. IMO not really relevant considering KT smashed Gonzalez and stopped him. BTW Quartey lived primarily off the jab. Kostya has a better right hand then Ike no question.

This fight is Tszyu against De La Hoya at 140lbs. And your a liar, as I never said De La Hoya's performance against Gonzalez would be the way he would beat Tszyu. I pointed out that De La Hoya's jab was in full effective against Gonzalez, and guess what, that fight happend to be at the 140lbs. And when comparing fights in head to head, its only natural to look at a fighters attributes when he fought at that particular weight against other opponents. And De La Hoya's jab was in tune when he fought Gonzalez, and Chavez for that matter.

You were the one that replied to my post and said Tszyu dominated Gonzalez more than De La Hoya. So how does that make your case strong for De La Hoya beating Tszyu?. You never quoted my other post. Quartey KO'd Phillips inside 3 rounds, and Tszyu went 10 rounds with Phillips and lost, well?.

You need to look at quality of opposition when matching two fighters head to head.

[China_hand_Joe]

Calzaghe
Jones
Ray Robinson (to be politically correct)
Whitaker
Mayweather
Duran
SRL
Tszyu
Lennox Lewis (though if i go by a more strict definition this 230+ pounder won't get in)
Sanchez's ghost

[Dekkers]

Tsyzu also had a great left hook to the body, one of his oft forgotten punches, it'd certainly bother Oscar.

[MSTR]

This fight is Tszyu against De La Hoya at 140lbs. And your a liar, as I never said De La Hoya's performance against Gonzalez would be the way he would beat Tszyu. I pointed out that De La Hoya's jab was in full effective against Gonzalez, and guess what, that fight happend to be at the 140lbs. And when comparing fights in head to head, its only natural to look at a fighters attributes when he fought at that particular weight against other opponents. And De La Hoya's jab was in tune when he fought Gonzalez, and Chavez for that matter.

You were the one that replied to my post and said Tszyu dominated Gonzalez more than De La Hoya. So how does that make your case strong for De La Hoya beating Tszyu?. You never quoted my other post. Quartey KO'd Phillips inside 3 rounds, and Tszyu went 10 rounds with Phillips and lost, well?.

You need to look at quality of opposition when matching two fighters head to head.
You also need to look at how they performed against those opponents more importantly. KT totally dismantled some top guys, where as Oscar has lost almost all his big fights. You need to look at their skill sets, and how they would match up with each other also. I have provided this in my initial analysis, and although I think it would be a very close fight, I have stated my reasons why Kostya wins. BTW I did quote your other post, what are you talking about?

[Relentless]

Someone who has fuck all boxing experience talking shit about someone who's from my area and used to have the same trainer as I did. Was Ba an ATG? No, but he was a damn good fighter when he was younger.

so thats who bit your ass?:huh

dont get me wrong i dont think tszyu is a bad fighter i was saying how people were flaming on me for daring to compare a up and coming cotto to an 'all time great' such as kostya tszyu, i mean what is it that makes him incomparable?

he beats all the top contenders but i dont see him standing a chance against guys like mosley and de la hoya, he used to paw with his jab and just have a right hand.

[Robbi]

Opposition has nothing to do with it though. Absolutely nothing.

Opposition has everything to do with it. Thats part of the criteria when matching two fighters head to head, but not the be all and end all. When comparing two fighters head to head its about putting the two styles together, and coming to the conclusion who you pick as the winner. But cmon now, you need to look at how fighters competed and faired against their opponents, and you also need to judge how good those opponents were as well.

[China_hand_Joe]

At 35 he was still very competetive with Hatton, a stylistic nightmare.

[Robbi]

You also need to look at how they performed against those opponents more importantly. KT totally dismantled some top guys, where as Oscar has lost almost all his big fights. You need to look at their skill sets, and how they would match up with each other also. I have provided this in my initial analysis, and although I think it would be a very close fight, I have stated my reasons why Kostya wins. BTW I did quote your other post, what are you talking about?

And I never said De La Hoya would beat Tszyu based on how he beat Gonzalez. Nonsense.

[BoppaZoo]

so thats who bit your ass?:huh

dont get me wrong i dont think tszyu is a bad fighter i was saying how people were flaming on me for daring to compare a up and coming cotto to an 'all time great' such as kostya tszyu, i mean what is it that makes him incomparable?

he beats all the top contenders but i dont see him standing a chance against guys like mosley and de la hoya, he used to paw with his jab and just have a right hand.see this why you are an idiot. Tszyu only had a Jab and a Right Hand you say. I guess you think he wasnt fast. I guess you missed the film were he was the Best from 1990's to the 2000's at Cutting off the Ring. I guess you missed how he could counterpunch with the best of them. I guess he had no Left Hook and was probably the most accurate puncher of all time.

I say this go back to watching more film. It might help you more in discussions like these.

[Relentless]

see this why you are an idiot. Tszyu only had a Jab and a Right Hand you say. I guess you think he wasnt fast. I guess you missed the film were he was the Best from 1990's to the 2000's at Cutting off the Ring. I guess you missed how he could counterpunch with the best of them. I guess he had no Left Hook and was probably the most accurate puncher of all time.

I say this go back to watching more film. It might help you more in discussions like these.

he used to paw with his jab and try time his right hand, he was like a one handed fighter trying to land the big right hand all the time, if he was such a great boxer why couldn't he handle pressure from a b class fighter?

[Kolya]

he used to paw with his jab and try time his right hand, he was like a one handed fighter trying to land the big right hand all the time, if he was such a great boxer why couldn't he handle pressure from a b class fighter?

Who's a B class fighter? Vince Phillips? It was also a time when Tszyu was distracted and Phillips was incredibly motivated, and Tszyu hang tough against someone who was a nightmare stylewise for him. Seriously, have you ever seen Tszyu fight as an amateur?

[Robbi]

Kostya definitely hurt Phillips and landed some big shots, so don't try to make out as if Phillips was never bothered. Kosya fought a very bad fight and lost. Style wise he never matched up well to Phillips, as Phillips was a bigger, stronger guy then him, which is Kostya's biggest weakness.

Tszyu maybe did hurt Phillips, but he never stopped him. I never tried to make out as if Phillips was never bothered, but he never looked like getting dropped. Quartey stopped Phillips inside 3 rounds, convincingly. Quartey's power against Tszyu's is close, but Quartey hit harder if anyone had the edge.

[DoumB]

PPl seem to realy hate DLH, the guy would had proly koed tszyu inside 11 rounds, he was simply better in every aspect exept maybe infighting, he would had boxed tsszyu'head off to a wide UD or late tko

[Dekkers]

he beats all the top contenders but i dont see him standing a chance against guys like mosley and de la hoya, he used to paw with his jab and just have a right hand.

This can't seriously be your opinion, if it is then you haven't seen much of Tszyu on film. Tszyu had a power jab, he'd measure his opponents for the right hand using the left or feint to set up a counter (that's another thing Tszyu is, an excellent counter puncher)... feinting and measuring isn't 'pawing', pawing is Fres Oquendos' jab in the Holy fight, the jab is employed offensively but has no speed, snap or power.

Like I said before Tszyu has an excellent left hook to the body, great punch he uses often (and has stopped good fighters with, e.g, Hurtado, Mitchell), arguably more potent than any single body punch in Cottos' arsenal. Tszyu also has straight shots to the body, the left hook upstairs and uppercuts all in his arsenal, not as bread and butter as some of his other punches but it's not like they never show up in fights (like in Wlads').

Also Mosely himself has huge respect for Tszyu, look at some of his quotes regarding Kostya, the same goes for Mayweather, two great fighters who see Tszyu as great... why? If you've got an eye for prize fighting you know Tszyu is special :smoke

[BoppaZoo]

Who's a B class fighter? Vince Phillips? It was also a time when Tszyu was distracted and Phillips was incredibly motivated, and Tszyu hang tough against someone who was a nightmare stylewise for him. Seriously, have you ever seen Tszyu fight as an amateur?The so called one dimensional Tszyu against the man that beat Mosley.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Relentless you need to watch more video footage before making assumptions.
Koyla i dare say youve seen this fight. The so called One Dimensional Tszyu.

[Kolya]

The so called one dimensional Tszyu against the man that beat Mosley.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Relentless you need to watch more video footage before making assumptions.
Koyla i dare say youve seen this fight. The so called One Dimensional Tszyu.

You dare say correctly. One of my favorite fights to watch, amateur or pro. A complete dismantling of an excellent fighter.

[China_hand_Joe]

Americans are hilarious.

"Oh look Oscar and Mosley fought each other. The fights were close, they must both beat that non-American!"

[China_hand_Joe]

The so called one dimensional Tszyu against the man that beat Mosley.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Relentless you need to watch more video footage before making assumptions.
Koyla i dare say youve seen this fight. The so called One Dimensional Tszyu.

Look at how he paws the jab though...

[MSTR]

Opposition has everything to do with it. Thats part of the criteria when matching two fighters head to head, but not the be all and end all. When comparing two fighters head to head its about putting the two styles together, and coming to the conclusion who you pick as the winner. But cmon now, you need to look at how fighters competed and faired against their opponents, and you also need to judge how good those opponents were as well.
But from his post it was referring to the names solely. Obviously opposition has something to do with it, I was trying to point out that the performace against those opponents is the most important thing. I was exaggerating in that post though, fair enough, although by only quoting one part of the post you have taken what I have said completely out of context to try to make your point.

[Fab2333]

Calzaghe
Jones
Ray Robinson (to be politically correct)
Whitaker
Mayweather
Duran
SRL
Tszyu
Lennox Lewis (though if i go by a more strict definition this 230+ pounder won't get in)
Sanchez's ghost

figures you have calzaghe over jones lol. WHen prime for prime Jones ass rapes calzaghe. BUt to each his own, cant fault you for that seeing as how he is you favorite figther

[BoppaZoo]

Americans are hilarious.

"Oh look Oscar and Mosley fought each other. The fights were close, they must both beat that non-American!"MMMMM spot on. Go Calzaghe i say against Kessler and go Hatton vs PBF. :yep :good

[MSTR]

Opposition has everything to do with it. Thats part of the criteria when matching two fighters head to head, but not the be all and end all. When comparing two fighters head to head its about putting the two styles together, and coming to the conclusion who you pick as the winner. But cmon now, you need to look at how fighters competed and faired against their opponents, and you also need to judge how good those opponents were as well.
But I have done that clearly. Just because I don't agree with your prediction doesn't mean I have not done this.

[Dekkers]

Americans are hilarious.

"Oh look Oscar and Mosley fought each other. The fights were close, they must both beat that non-American!"
:lol::lol::lol:

Miguided patriotism, combined with lack of exposure to fighters outside their own backyard. Look at how little so many of them think of Dariusz for example, anybody who saw his fight against Virgil can't possibly feel that way :huh

[MSTR]

Tszyu maybe did hurt Phillips, but he never stopped him. I never tried to make out as if Phillips was never bothered, but he never looked like getting dropped. Quartey stopped Phillips inside 3 rounds, convincingly. Quartey's power against Tszyu's is close, but Quartey hit harder if anyone had the edge.
Based on what? His one impressive KO victory of Phillips, who was up at welter weight, as opposed to jr where he fought KT? Phillips had big problems outside the ring also, which was what caused a lot of his inconsistency.

[BoppaZoo]

You dare say correctly. One of my favorite fights to watch, amateur or pro. A complete dismantling of an excellent fighter.i noticed how as soon as i posted this footage Relentless went into hiding.

[MSTR]

And I never said De La Hoya would beat Tszyu based on how he beat Gonzalez. Nonsense.
You pointed to how his jab was working against Gonzalez. To me, this was implying that he could do the same to KT. KT thrashed Gonzalez, so IMO its not really a valid point, as clearly KT is in a different league to Gonzalez.

[Dekkers]

Based on what? His one impressive KO victory of Phillips, who was up at welter weight, as opposed to jr where he fought KT? Phillips had big problems outside the ring also, which was what caused a lot of his inconsistency.
While Tszyu was never a man to make excuses let's not forget he had his own problems before the fight with Phillips, with his court case (that he lost) happenning alongside his training camp.

[MSTR]

While Tszyu was never a man to make excuses let's not forget he had his own problems before the fight with Phillips, with his court case (that he lost) happenning alongside his training camp for Phillips.
For sure. Still, Phillips came in highly focused and motivated. I am sure I have heard that Phillips was a drug addict throughout his career which greatly affected him at different times. I think a highly motivated and focused Phillips was always going to be a tough fight, however the stuff that happened to KT, and his legal battles was the difference between winning and losing here iMO.

[Ambition_Def]

I'll be honest with you I really don't know.

Originally I would say that DLH is just too big for Tszyu. DLH was no stranger to taking punches in his career, but he often came out on top. And it wasn't until 147 that he started to come out on the losing end of punching exchanges.

I would say that Tszyu could carry some pop to 147, but DLH at 147 hit harder. By that virtue, I'd say DLH at 140 probably also hit harder.

DLH often squared up and used both hands effectively to land combinations. Tszyu had a great left hook but at mid range he'd rely heavily on his jab and right hand. DLh would be forced to respect Tszyu's right hand, so he'd likely wait for Tszyu to commit then he'd throw a quick combination behind the right hand.

The one area that I could see Tszyu get in some real trouble is that he always had to have his feet planted. He didn't like wasting punches so he'd plant his feet on every right hand. DLH would take note of this and would likely catch Tszyu flat footed with his vaunted left hook.

If I had to lean one way I'd say DLH by stoppage. But I could see Tszyu's patience paying off and dropping DLH on a big right hand.

[Dekkers]

For sure. Still, Phillips came in highly focused and motivated. I am sure I have heard that Phillips was a drug addict throughout his career which greatly affected him at different times. I think a highly motivated and focused Phillips was always going to be a tough fight, however the stuff that happened to KT, and his legal battles was the difference between winning and losing here iMO.

True the difference between a motivated and an unmotivated fighter can be extraordinary, 'cough' Buster 'cough'.

[Robbi]

But I have done that clearly. Just because I don't agree with your prediction doesn't mean I have not done this.

No problems. One thing we both agree on, its a close fight. While De La Hoya probably has the speed and quick combinations over Tszyu, he'd get pushed to the limit and have his chin tested on occassions. De La Hoya does have a very good defense, but not quite good enough to make Tszyu's right hand miss all night.

Regarding stamina. De La Hoya closed the show against Gonzalez at 140lbs, and his stamina was never in question at all throughout his career until he fought Trinidad. He moved with his legs rather than his fists. He simply never had it in him to keep away and throw effective punches at the same time. Its up for debate if sharing a ring with Tszyu would bring out stamina problems in De La Hoya, as Tszyu would certainly make for a more gruelling fight than Gonzalez. But De La Hoya never showed stamina problems at 140lbs, if we want to be strict on our criteria.

Some people have said that De La Hoya is bigger and stronger than Tszyu, and hits harder. I don't agree with this for one minute. De La Hoya does have decent respectable power, but not devasating. Tszyu hits harder at 140lbs in my eyes.

And De La Hoya is only bigger than Tszyu in height and reach. I'd actually say Tszyu walked around between fights heavier than De La Hoya did when they both fought at 140lbs. Tszyu's much thicker around the waist and across the shoulders than De La Hoya.

De La Hoya never struggled to make 140lbs. He moved up because bigger marquee fights were at welterweight. It was the money division at the time in boxing during the mid-late 90's. Whitaker, Quartey, and Trinidad. Whitaker was a very tough fight on paper, but he was past his prime. It was looked upon as a winnable fight for De La Hoya, with a career highest purse at that point in his career.

[MSTR]

True the difference between a motivated and an unmotivated fighter can be extraordinary, 'cough' Buster 'cough'.
Prime example.

[MSTR]

No problems. One thing we both agree on, its a close fight. While De La Hoya probably has the speed and quick combinations over Tszyu, he'd get pushed to the limit and have his chin tested on occassions. De La Hoya does have a very good defense, but not quite good enough to make Tszyu's right hand miss all night.

Regarding stamina. De La Hoya closed the show against Gonzalez at 140lbs, and his stamina was never in question at all throughout his career until he fought Trinidad. He moved with his legs rather than his fists. He simply never had it in him to keep away and throw effective punches at the same time. Its up for debate if sharing a ring with Tszyu would bring out stamina problems in De La Hoya, as Tszyu would certainly make for a more gruelling fight than Gonzalez. But De La Hoya never showed stamina problems at 140lbs, if we want to be strict on our criteria.

Some people have said that De La Hoya is bigger and stronger than Tszyu, and hits harder. I don't agree with this for one minute. De La Hoya does have decent respectable power, but not devasating. Tszyu hits harder at 140lbs in my eyes.

And De La Hoya is only bigger than Tszyu in height and reach. I'd actually say Tszyu walked around between fights heavier than De La Hoya did when they both fought at 140lbs. Tszyu's much thicker around the waist and across the shoulders than De La Hoya.

De La Hoya never struggled to make 140lbs. He moved up because bigger marquee fights were at welterweight. It was the money division at the time in boxing during the mid-late 90's. Whitaker, Quartey, and Trinidad. Whitaker was a very tough fight on paper, but he was past his prime. It was looked upon as a winnable fight for De La Hoya, with a career highest purse at that point in his career.
Good post. I agree with what you have written here. Both fighters have their advantages, and it is very hard to pick. It is easy to forget just how quick he was in his prime at 140 also. Very close fight.

[Dekkers]

No problems. One thing we both agree on, its a close fight. While De La Hoya probably has the speed and quick combinations over Tszyu,

I'd argue Tszyu has faster hands punch for punch (though not in combinations), check out Kostyas' fight with Pedro Sanchez for example. Hoya also throws quite a few 'shoe-shine' combinations.

Regarding stamina. De La Hoya closed the show against Gonzalez at 140lbs, and his stamina was never in question at all throughout his career until he fought Trinidad. He moved with his legs rather than his fists. He simply never had it in him to keep away and throw effective punches at the same time. Its up for debate if sharing a ring with Tszyu would bring out stamina problems in De La Hoya, as Tszyu would certainly make for a more gruelling fight than Gonzalez. But De La Hoya never showed stamina problems at 140lbs, if we want to be strict on our criteria.

Tszyu was regarded as one of boxings best conditioned fighters before the Hatton fight. I think his stamina is fine, I think the Phillips fight was a bit of an oddity, he didn't have an ideal camp, he was also an older man at the time of the Hatton fight (his legs also weren't as strong, partly age, partly the surgery). There have been plenty of performances in Tszyus career when he showed much better conditioing than those two nights.
:good

[Robbi]

You pointed to how his jab was working against Gonzalez. To me, this was implying that he could do the same to KT. KT thrashed Gonzalez, so IMO its not really a valid point, as clearly KT is in a different league to Gonzalez.

Nah mate, I just happened to mention De La Hoya's jab being in full flow at 140lbs against Gonzalez, since this thread is all about Tszyu against De La Hoya at that weight. I'm pretty confident De La Hoya's jab would prove to be a major weapon against Tszyu, no question about it. But Tszyu was brilliant at moving back from punches, just half a foot to avoid blows from his opponent. He could judge distance extremely well.

Gonzalez never showed a high enough punch-output and never closed the distance on De La Hoya to make his jab ineffective. He was straight up and down and gave De La Hoya an easy target to shoot the jab out. Tszyu is straight up and down as well, but he's busier and pulls in out of range better than Gonzalez.