E. European p4p list...

[andyZOR]

1. Wladimir Klitschko Ukraine
2. Vitali Klitschko Ukraine
3. Arthur Abraham Armenia
4. Tomasz Adamek Poland
5. Lucian Bute Romania
6. Zsolt Erdei - Hungary
7. Alexander Povetkin Russia
8. Krzysztof Wlodarczyk Poland
9. Gennady Golovkin Kazakhstan
10. Denis Boytsov Russia

if you dont include Kazakhstan in E. Europe, replace with Adrian Diaconu Romania

thoughts and opinions?

[cubex]

Boytsov over Golovkin I'd say but very solid list.

[ishy]

Dzindziruk?

[LHL]

Glovokin and Boytsov over Sturm & Huck? Solid list top 8 i think but last two or three spots can go to a lot of people

[cubex]

Glovokin and Boytsov over Sturm & Huck? Solid list top 8 i think but last two or three spots can go to a lot of people

I don't think hwe count Germany as Eastern Europe even though you could say Sturm is Bosnian and Huck Serbian.

[Flurry]

abrams boxes under the german flag, no matter where he originated from he has to pass as German boxer (armenian origin) apart from the fact that Armenia is an asian country, same as Kazakhstan

[LHL]

I don't think hwe count Germany as Eastern Europe even though you could say Sturm is Bosnian and Huck Serbian.

:good Didn't see the Eastern my post looks stupid now :lol:

[LHL]

Pirog or Karmazin

[yogster740]

I like the 1-5, pretty solid, the rest is tough to gauge.

[UKITAZ]

Dzindziruk?


i agree, he has to be on there.

[Vysotsky]

Dzindziruk?

Undefeated champ, has to be on the list.

abrams boxes under the german flag, no matter where he originated from he has to pass as German boxer (armenian origin) apart from the fact that Armenia is an asian country, same as Kazakhstan

Abraham is an ethnic Armenian, grew up and learned to box there. So i don't see how him living and fighting out of Germany now negates his ethnicity & the fact that he aquired his skill/training there.

If you think Armenians are asian then i don't know what the fuck to tell you. Ethnically, Genetically and Lingustically they are related to Europeans. They also were the first state to officially adopt Christianity again culturally putting them in the European sphere.

[bodhi]

Undefeated champ, has to be on the list.



Abraham is an ethnic Armenian, grew up and learned to box there. So i don't see how him living and fighting out of Germany now negates his ethnicity & the fact that he aquired his skill/training there.

If you think Armenians are asian then i don't know what the fuck to tell you. Ethnically, Genetically and Lingustically they are related to Europeans. They also were the first state to officially adopt Christianity again culturally putting them in the European sphere.

Abraham is German citizen, so he is German just like the other Armenian Ghevor.

btw. Abraham learned boxing after he left Armenia in Germany.

Oh, and I think Bute is Canadian.

[cubex]

Abraham is German citizen, so he is German just like the other Armenian Ghevor.

btw. Abraham learned boxing after he left Armenia in Germany.

Oh, and I think Bute is Canadian.

Abraham has Armenian citizenship so hes Armenian just as much as he's German.

Bute doesn't even have citizenship.

[k2fan]

Oh, and I think Bute is Canadian.

:nut Yeah ok

[Flurry]

Undefeated champ, has to be on the list.



Abraham is an ethnic Armenian, grew up and learned to box there. So i don't see how him living and fighting out of Germany now negates his ethnicity & the fact that he aquired his skill/training there.

If you think Armenians are asian then i don't know what the fuck to tell you. Ethnically, Genetically and Lingustically they are related to Europeans. They also were the first state to officially adopt Christianity again culturally putting them in the European sphere.

Geographically speaking Armenia is an Asian country there can be no disputing that, europe ends where the causasian MT Range begins, the whole of the transcaucasian nations (Georgia, armenia, azerbaidshan) belong to Asia, fact.

The other thing with regards to Abrams can be seen this way or another, imo

[Vysotsky]

Abraham is German citizen, so he is German just like the other Armenian Ghevor.

btw. Abraham learned boxing after he left Armenia in Germany.

Oh, and I think Bute is Canadian.

This Bute comment demonstrates that you're an idiot.

Using Abrahams German Citizenship to claim he 'more german than armenia'.........lol nothing more

Also i remember someone on here stating that he was junior amateur champ (or won some kind of junior am medal) while in Armenia? I could be wrong but i do doubt your claim about him never having boxed before moving to Germany. Can anyone shed some light on this?

I'm sure you think Michalczewski is German too ? Don't be all hurt cuz Germany can't produce any good fighters so your have to resort to 'adopting' others as your own, pathetic really.

Geographically speaking Armenia is an Asian country there can be no disputing that, europe ends where the causasian MT Range begins, the whole of the transcaucasian nations (Georgia, armenia, azerbaidshan) belong to Asia, fact.

The other thing with regards to Abrams can be seen this way or another, imo

Well if you're saying that Armenians are 'asian' due to your stated reason i diagree with you. Genetics, Language, & Culture define them more than them happening to reside east of the Caucasus mountains

[Flurry]

Well if you're saying that Armenians are 'asian' due to your stated reason i diagree with you. Genetics, Language, & Culture define them more than them happening to reside east of the Caucasus mountains

geography is a major factor to define what country belongs to what continent obviously, otherwise you could state the whole of Northern Africa has to be Asian for its language religion ethnicity deriving from the Arabs who originated in Asia, Going by your sloppy definition the Persians could claim to be europeans as their language belongs to the indo european group of langauges same as ours.

[Brickhaus]

I thought Armenians were generally considered to be more European than Asian culturally (if you think of "European" on the macro level) since they're Christian, have a language closely related to Greek, etc. From a geographic perspective, Americans consider the caucusus countries to be a part of Europe rather than Asia. Kazakhstan is definitely central Asia though.

As for the original list, top 5 looks good to me, but I diverge from there. I'd probably put Dzinziruk at 6, Haye at 7, Froch at 8, Erdei at 9 and Sturm (reluctantly, or Gevor) at 10.

[Vysotsky]

As for the original list, top 5 looks good to me, but I diverge from there. I'd probably put Dzinziruk at 6, Haye at 7, Froch at 8, Erdei at 9 and Sturm (reluctantly, or Gevor) at 10.

lol E.European. E for Eastern so no Haye or Froch

[andyZOR]

A part of Kazakhstan is considered to be Europe.

[andyZOR]

man.. 2 pages and im the only one who made a list.... : D

[bodhi]

This Bute comment demonstrates that you're an idiot.

We have a saying in Bavaria "who insults is wrong" :good


Using Abrahams German Citizenship to claim he 'more german than armenia'.........lol nothing more

I never wrote he is more German than Armenian. Perhaps you should read again what I wrote. He moved to Germany, lives here and considers it his home. That makes him a German-Armenian.


Also i remember someone on here stating that he was junior amateur champ (or won some kind of junior am medal) while in Armenia? I could be wrong but i do doubt your claim about him never having boxed before moving to Germany. Can anyone shed some light on this?

Abraham started boxing in Bamberg, Germany and won the inernational German Championship in 1997, he had 90 fights, all in Germany :good


I'm sure you think Michalczewski is German too ? Don't be all hurt cuz Germany can't produce any good fighters so your have to resort to 'adopting' others as your own, pathetic really.


Well, DM fought during his career as a German. So, yeah he indeed is. That has nohing to do with sport. Everybody with a German citizenship is German. I know hat our friends from the east love to dwell in the past and stick to the Dark Ages ethnicity thing though. I think that's "pathetic really". ;)

[bodhi]

man.. 2 pages and im the only one who made a list.... : D

1. Wladimir Klitschko
2. Tomasz Adamek
3. Vitali Klitschko
4. Zsolt Erdei
5. Sergej Dzinziruk
6. Lucien Bute
7. Alexander Povetkin
8. Andrej Kotelnik
9. Krzysztof Wlodarczyk
0. Gennadi Golovkin

I thought Bute was Canadian citizen, well, he isn'so he has to be in there.

[andyZOR]

guys like DM, Abraham etc... these guys only fight in Germany cause quite frankly, they wouldnt have had another choice.

[Vysotsky]

I never wrote he is more German than Armenian. Perhaps you should read again what I wrote. He moved to Germany, lives here and considers it his home. That makes him a German-Armenian.


Abraham started boxing in Bamberg, Germany and won the inernational German Championship in 1997, he had 90 fights, all in Germany :good

Well, DM fought during his career as a German. So, yeah he indeed is. That has nohing to do with sport. Everybody with a German citizenship is German. I know hat our friends from the east love to dwell in the past and stick to the Dark Ages ethnicity thing though. I think that's "pathetic really". ;)

I agree with that

Thanks for clarifying that i was curious about his amateur experience, appreciate it.

lol :good Yup. Not a shocker that uber-liberalism is your religion. Have fun being a minority in your own country in 40-50yrs and being close to extinct in 100 yrs. Retards like you will ensure that it happens.

[latineg]

I agree with that

Thanks for clarifying that i was curious about his amateur experience, appreciate it.

lol :good Yup. Not a shocker that uber-liberalism is your religion. Have fun being a minority in your own country in 40-50yrs and being close to extinct in 100 yrs. Retards like you will ensure that it happens.



i could care less what that guyz religion is and wether or not hez a minority as they dont have anything to do with the truth that he totally handled you and made you look like a jackass when you mis-ASSumed what he waz saying when you quoted him and didnt have the balls to step up and admit that he handled you with his reply

instead he tricked you into revealing your true colourz when he forced you to insult his religious beliefz and laugh at him for being in a minority

you need to try harder not to be a coward

[bodhi]

guys like DM, Abraham etc... these guys only fight in Germany cause quite frankly, they wouldnt have had another choice.

Partly true, they easily could have went to the states after they started to have success, like Gamboa did for example.

[bodhi]

I agree with that

Thanks for clarifying that i was curious about his amateur experience, appreciate it.

lol :good Yup. Not a shocker that uber-liberalism is your religion. Have fun being a minority in your own country in 40-50yrs and being close to extinct in 100 yrs. Retards like you will ensure that it happens.


And again you start to insult. Other than you I can respect your oppinion even when it differs from mine. Minorities can become majorities pretty fast, history proves it. I prefer to think that I'm just ahead of my time :good

[andyZOR]

Partly true, they easily could have went to the states after they started to have success, like Gamboa did for example.


why go to the States when Germany is closer?

[bodhi]

why go to the States when Germany is closer?

Even more money, more glamour and fame and a higher chance to fight the big guys.

btw. is it right that DM is broke now and works as an instructor in a fitness gym for 500€ that he owned until a few years ago? Do you know anything about that? Would be really sad.

[andyZOR]

Even more money, more glamour and fame and a higher chance to fight the big guys.



thats not true.

the germans offer just as much money, if not more, than the americans.

fame? DM at one time was a house hold name in Germany, whilst unknown much in USA. Vice versa from Roy Jones Jr.

Gamboa went to the States cause hes from Cuba, it would make absolutely NO SENSE him going to Germany..... USA has big Cuban population, Germany does not.



btw. is it right that DM is broke now and works as an instructor in a fitness gym for 500€ that he owned until a few years ago? Do you know anything about that? Would be really sad.

I dont know, but you can check my youtube chanel and i have a video of MTV Cribs with Dariusz Michalczewski in it showing off his house and his fitness gym.

[Vysotsky]

We have a saying in Bavaria "who insults is wrong" :good



I never wrote he is more German than Armenian. Perhaps you should read again what I wrote. He moved to Germany, lives here and considers it his home. That makes him a German-Armenian.



Abraham started boxing in Bamberg, Germany and won the inernational German Championship in 1997, he had 90 fights, all in Germany :good



Well, DM fought during his career as a German. So, yeah he indeed is. That has nohing to do with sport. Everybody with a German citizenship is German. I know hat our friends from the east love to dwell in the past and stick to the Dark Ages ethnicity thing though. I think that's "pathetic really". ;)

Well the Bold below demonstrates that this is what you were implying. Especially adding the Bute comment along with it. By saying you consider Bute Canadian with no mention of Romania due to his citizenship (which he doesn't have in Canada).

So yes it was fair to say that you were claiming Abraham was 'more German'. You act like i pulled that out of nowhere, which i didn't.

Abraham is German citizen, so he is German just like the other Armenian Ghevor.

btw. Abraham learned boxing after he left Armenia in Germany.

Oh, and I think Bute is Canadian.

Abraham has Armenian citizenship so hes Armenian just as much as he's German.

Bute doesn't even have citizenship.

Cubex pointed out your inncorrect assumption about Bute and said about Abraham what my sentiments are, he's German-Armenian. You on the other hand were implying Citizenship trumps eveything else.

i could care less what that guyz religion is and wether or not hez a minority as they dont have anything to do with the truth thathe totally handled you and made you look like a jackass when you mis-ASSumed what he waz saying when you quoted him and didnt have the balls to step up and admit that he handled you with his reply

instead he tricked you into revealing your true colourz when he forced you to insult his religious beliefz and laugh at him for being in a minority

you need to try harder not to be a coward

lol okay i'm going to shows patience and assume that perhaps english isn't your first language for you, which could explain why your reading comprehension is so atrocious.

Take a good look at what i wrote below which is what you're referring to. In case you're unaware, liberal ideology is not an actual religion, which is what i was insulting. It's a political ideology. And he did 'trick me' into anything.

Again you fail to understand my comment

I address this above, i didn't mis-assume anything in regards him. Him saying he considers Bute Canadian (even though HE mis-ASSumed about Bute since he isnt a Canadian Citizen) shows how he was using Citizenship as the only factor.

The only thing he 'handled me' on is Abraham's Amatuer boxing career, although i was asking him & not claiming that i knew definitely.

I agree with that

Thanks for clarifying that i was curious about his amateur experience, appreciate it.

lol :good Yup. Not a shocker that uber-liberalism is your religion. Have fun being a minority in your own country in 40-50yrs and being close to extinct in 100 yrs. Retards like you will ensure that it happens.


And again you start to insult. Other than you I can respect your oppinion even when it differs from mine. Minorities can become majorities pretty fast, history proves it. I prefer to think that I'm just ahead of my time :good

Latineg- this bold above is what me and bodhi disagree about and what i was making fun of him about with my 'uber-liberal' religion comment.

He seems to not only not mind but even embrace the thought of Germans becoming minorities in their own country.

i appreciate culture and was jabbing him because it seemed as though he was saying that he endorsed/embraced the erosion of German culture. Something i would disagree with no matter which culture it was.

Next time you try to make me look like an asshole, at the very least, don't do it by taking what i said completely out of context.

[bodhi]

thats not true.

the germans offer just as much money, if not more, than the americans.

fame? DM at one time was a house hold name in Germany, whilst unknown much in USA. Vice versa from Roy Jones Jr.

So, DM must have earned as much as RJJ then? And must have been as popular in Germany as RJJ was in the states? Both is not true. RJJ was known by the average man on the street in the states, DM was not in Germany.


Gamboa went to the States cause hes from Cuba, it would make absolutely NO SENSE him going to Germany..... USA has big Cuban population, Germany does not.

Partly true. He also earns more there than what Oener could offer him.

I dont know, but you can check my youtube chanel and i have a video of MTV Cribs with Dariusz Michalczewski in it showing off his house and his fitness gym.

How old is it? Just wondering because the info I gave you is from this year. But well, it's from German wikipedia. And we all know how reliable wikipedia is :lol:

[bodhi]

Well the Bold below demonstrates that this is what you were implying. Especially adding the Bute comment along with it. By saying you consider Bute Canadian with no mention of Romania due to his citizenship (which he doesn't have in Canada).

So yes it was fair to say that you were claiming Abraham was 'more German'. You act like i pulled that out of nowhere, which i didn't.

Well, you assumed all this. I never wrote it. Yeah, I wrote Bute beeing Canadian. I thought he had Canadian citizenship. Citizenship is what counts first because it's what's official.
That's why Abraham is German to me. He is also Armenian. But when he goes into the ring he fights under the German flag for Germany as a German. Clear enough?


Cubex pointed out your inncorrect assumption about Bute and said about Abraham what my sentiments are, he's German-Armenian. You on the other hand were implying Citizenship trumps eveything else.

Arbaham has no Armenian citizenship anymore. That's not allowed by German law. Either you are German citizen or that of anoher country. Exceptions are made for countries who do not allow you to give up your citizenship like Iran.


He seems to not only not mind but even embrace the thought of Germans becoming minorities in their own country.

I was commenting on thiose "uber-liberal views" beeing in a minority. I never talked about Germans becoming a minority in Germany - which very well might happen since we aren't the most "child-producing" nation.


i appreciate culture and was jabbing him because it seemed as though he was saying that he endorsed/embraced the erosion of German culture. Something i would disagree with no matter which culture it was.

Why do you assume the German culture would erode? Becaue "Germans become a minority in Germany? Another assumption that very well maybe proven wrong. Most of my friends aren't ethnic Germans but Persian, Turkish, Arab, Russian, Ukrainian and Polish. All of them embraced German culture. In many ways they are more typical German than I am - I'Bavarian and we are fond of not beeing German bu Bavarian :deal - of course they also embraced the culture of their ancestors. They add their culture to the German one. That's no erosion. In my oppinion that's a good thing - and things like that happened since forever, look into the history books.

[Vysotsky]

Well, you assumed all this. I never wrote it. Yeah, I wrote Bute beeing Canadian. I thought he had Canadian citizenship. Citizenship is what counts first because it's what's official.
That's why Abraham is German to me. He is also Armenian. But when he goes into the ring he fights under the German flag for Germany as a German. Clear enough?



Arbaham has no Armenian citizenship anymore. That's not allowed by German law. Either you are German citizen or that of anoher country. Exceptions are made for countries who do not allow you to give up your citizenship like Iran.



I was commenting on thiose "uber-liberal views" beeing in a minority. I never talked about Germans becoming a minority in Germany - which very well might happen since we aren't the most "child-producing" nation.



Why do you assume the German culture would erode? Becaue "Germans become a minority in Germany? Another assumption that very well maybe proven wrong. Most of my friends aren't ethnic Germans but Persian, Turkish, Arab, Russian, Ukrainian and Polish. All of them embraced German culture. In many ways they are more typical German than I am - I'Bavarian and we are fond of not beeing German bu Bavarian :deal - of course they also embraced the culture of their ancestors. They add their culture to the German one. That's no erosion. In my oppinion that's a good thing - and things like that happened since forever, look into the history books.

I understand you now. Yeah alot of countries have similar rules about having to give up your citizenship when aquiring a new one.

Ahh, that was my mistake and the biggest miscommunication. I thought that you were talking about Germena themselves, didn't realize you were speaking about your views

Well this is really the only thing we actually disagree about but i have no problem with your views differing.

Living in Canada i think i have a more up-close view of "muti-culturalism" which i think is a inaccurate term. It isn't a utopic co-existance of cultures from all over the world but rather an adoption of the dominant culture along with the erosion and loss of the original one that the individual possessed.

I think that liberal ideas get taken way too far and transforms into some perverse notion that "differences are evil" which leads to the destruction of all cultures involved rather than promoting and respecting those cultures involved, which was the initial claim.

In North America what passes as a "culture" would be the commercialized celebration of St.Patrick's day where everyone wears green hats and drinks green beer. (using Irish as an example) Any real culture is pretty much absent, that's my opinion on it anyways.

I do read alot of history and i can't think of a genuine example of "muti-culturalism" where one didn't usurp the other leading to the destruction of one.

Just misunderstood eachother with some things initially.
Aside from this one point we don't really have any great contrast in opinions.

[Vysotsky]

I dont know, but you can check my youtube chanel and i have a video of MTV Cribs with Dariusz Michalczewski in it showing off his house and his fitness gym.

lol that your channel? I'v watched all these before, awesome stuff man.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


4:13 the outside of Pudzianowski's house is absolutely beautiful, he has it looking like a church.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[andyZOR]

ya thats my chanel

[latineg]

Well the Bold below demonstrates that this is what you were implying. Especially adding the Bute comment along with it. By saying you consider Bute Canadian with no mention of Romania due to his citizenship (which he doesn't have in Canada).

So yes it was fair to say that you were claiming Abraham was 'more German'. You act like i pulled that out of nowhere, which i didn't.





Cubex pointed out your inncorrect assumption about Bute and said about Abraham what my sentiments are, he's German-Armenian. You on the other hand were implying Citizenship trumps eveything else.



lol okay i'm going to shows patience and assume that perhaps english isn't your first language for you, which could explain why your reading comprehension is so atrocious.

Take a good look at what i wrote below which is what you're referring to. In case you're unaware, liberal ideology is not an actual religion, which is what i was insulting. It's a political ideology. And he did 'trick me' into anything.

Again you fail to understand my comment

I address this above, i didn't mis-assume anything in regards him. Him saying he considers Bute Canadian (even though HE mis-ASSumed about Bute since he isnt a Canadian Citizen) shows how he was using Citizenship as the only factor.

The only thing he 'handled me' on is Abraham's Amatuer boxing career, although i was asking him & not claiming that i knew definitely.





Latineg- this bold above is what me and bodhi disagree about and what i was making fun of him about with my 'uber-liberal' religion comment.

He seems to not only not mind but even embrace the thought of Germans becoming minorities in their own country.

i appreciate culture and was jabbing him because it seemed as though he was saying that he endorsed/embraced the erosion of German culture. Something i would disagree with no matter which culture it was.

Next time you try to make me look like an asshole, at the very least, don't do it by taking what i said completely out of context.


if vysotski cant handle latineg taking what he sayz completely out of context then latineg will agree to vysotiskiz TERMz and only take somethingz out of context when trying to make him look like a asshole

maybe that way vysotiski wont have to go to so much trouble to cut and paste his colourful fontz all over the god dam thread to save german culture

[Flurry]

From a geographic perspective, Americans consider the caucusus countries to be a part of Europe rather than Asia.

The american perspective

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[bodhi]

I understand you now. Yeah alot of countries have similar rules about having to give up your citizenship when aquiring a new one.

Ahh, that was my mistake and the biggest miscommunication. I thought that you were talking about Germena themselves, didn't realize you were speaking about your views

Well this is really the only thing we actually disagree about but i have no problem with your views differing.

Living in Canada i think i have a more up-close view of "muti-culturalism" which i think is a inaccurate term. It isn't a utopic co-existance of cultures from all over the world but rather an adoption of the dominant culture along with the erosion and loss of the original one that the individual possessed.

I think that liberal ideas get taken way too far and transforms into some perverse notion that "differences are evil" which leads to the destruction of all cultures involved rather than promoting and respecting those cultures involved, which was the initial claim.

In North America what passes as a "culture" would be the commercialized celebration of St.Patrick's day where everyone wears green hats and drinks green beer. (using Irish as an example) Any real culture is pretty much absent, that's my opinion on it anyways.

I do read alot of history and i can't think of a genuine example of "muti-culturalism" where one didn't usurp the other leading to the destruction of one.

Just misunderstood eachother with some things initially.
Aside from this one point we don't really have any great contrast in opinions.

Well, the Romans were masters of adding foreign culture to their own. Another example would be the Huguenots who fled France and moved to Prussia. They got some special rights and while they became Prussians in a view generations they also influenced the German/Prussian culture. They had a big impact.

Of course the culture of people who immigrate in another country won't be presaved as it was in their home country. It will change, adept to it's new surroundings. But at the same time it will influence the culture of the country they immigrated to. That's a process well-documented in most cultures.

That does not mean that a culture erodes or get's lost but more that it evolves. And that's a good thing. Stagnation is regression. An I expect the impact of Muslimic/Turkish culture in Germany proving to be a fountain of youth for German culture on the long run.

Our views are pretty similar actually :good

[NBT]

I consider ethnicity as far more important for a person's identity because it is something consistent that cannot change randomly. A citizenship nowadays is basically just a piece of paper which you can change like a haircut, it doesn't hold any deeper meaning. I mean look at all the naturalised Brazilians and Africans who play for various national football teams.

[Brickhaus]

I consider ethnicity as far more important for a person's identity because it is something consistent that cannot change randomly. A citizenship nowadays is basically just a piece of paper which you can change like a haircut, it doesn't hold any deeper meaning. I mean look at all the naturalised Brazilians and Africans who play for various national football teams.

It really depends on where you are. It's pretty different from immigrant countries like the US, Brazil or Australia versus Europe or east Asia where there's a pretty close identity between culture, nationality and ethnicity.

[bodhi]

I consider ethnicity as far more important for a person's identity because it is something consistent that cannot change randomly. A citizenship nowadays is basically just a piece of paper which you can change like a haircut, it doesn't hold any deeper meaning. I mean look at all the naturalised Brazilians and Africans who play for various national football teams.

Yes and no. Look at the Turks in Germany for example. They are considered Turks in Germany but German in Turkey. What are they? :huh
The ones I know consider themselves both. And most decide to keep the German citizenship instead of the Turkish one - they have to until their 28th birthday - unless they expect to inheritate something later on - the Turkish law does not allow non-Turkish citizen to inheritate anything.
For them both is important. Their ethnicity and their citizenship. Both is part of their identity.

[bodhi]

It really depends on where you are. It's pretty different from immigrant countries like the US, Brazil or Australia versus Europe or east Asia where there's a pretty close identity between culture, nationality and ethnicity.

Well, Germany has 82 million citizens. 75 million have the German citizenship, 7 million of hese have foreign ancestors. I think we qualify as an immigration country in the mold of Canda, Australia and so on, also our politician tend to ignore that.

[Vysotsky]

Well, Germany has 82 million citizens. 75 million have the German citizenship, 7 million of hese have foreign ancestors. I think we qualify as an immigration country in the mold of Canda, Australia and so on, also our politician tend to ignore that.

lol Come on man you can't be serious. Germany is not Canada, Australia or the U.S. Aside from native indians (which are pretty much non-existant) there is no such thing as an ethnic American, Aussie etc. They're countries that are entirly comprised of immigrants.

Germany is certainly immigrant friendly but they're not the same thing.

[bodhi]

lol Come on man you can't be serious. Germany is not Canada, Australia or the U.S. Aside from native indians (which are pretty much non-existant) there is no such thing as an ethnic American, Aussie etc. They're countries that are entirly comprised of immigrants.

Germany is certainly immigrant friendly but they're not the same thing.

Yeah, you are right Germany does not have the same tradition as these countries when it comes to immigration. That's why many people and the politicians have a hard time acknowleding this. But when the population of a country consists of more than one fourth of foreigners I think you can speak of an immigration country.
That brings many problems with it for both the immigrants and the Germans. And I think we will need a few generations to adept to it. But Migration is something natural for humanity it happened throughout its history again and again and in the end it always worked.

[Flurry]

Bodhi you re a knowledgeable poster when it comes to boxing I enjoy reading your profound assessments, but your politically correct green party views on humanity that you present are hardly representative for my country, imo, or at least and in my humble opinion don't really belong to a boxing section, there's the lounge to disclose your "lets all be one world" ideology.

[k2fan]

Bodhi you re a knowledgeable poster when it comes to boxing I enjoy reading your profound assessments, but your politically correct green party views on humanity that you present are hardly representative for my country, imo, or at least and in my humble opinion don't really belong to a boxing section, there's the lounge to disclose your "lets all be one world" ideology.

:good

[bodhi]

Bodhi you re a knowledgeable poster when it comes to boxing I enjoy reading your profound assessments, but your politically correct green party views on humanity that you present are hardly representative for my country, imo, or at least and in my humble opinion don't really belong to a boxing section, there's the lounge to disclose your "lets all be one world" ideology.

Sorry, but I'm far far away from the Green Party. Actually, I'm more of a conservative but I'm also a student of culture history - not at an university but as a hobby - and this is just what I learned from studying this and my own humble experiences.

And I didn't start his discussion, I just joined it. And I know that I'm in a minority in Germany. I wrote that already. However, time will change this :p

[Nosbor]

Why do immigrants always cry about how they are treated in their respective HOST nations? Rather than exact change in their homeland, they scurry away and start pointing fingers at their benefactors. Often bringing with them the same antiquated and even destructive customs that made their homelands so intolerable.


Oh but it will be fine in the long run because these usurpers will simply outbreed their hosts, as evidences by bodhi's last sentence. These host nations with liberal immigration polocies are digging their own graves, albeit with a teaspoon.

[k2fan]

It's time to end this thread, move it to the lounge, or better yet.....GET BACK TO TALKING BOXING.

If you all want to continue talking politics, culture, ethnicities and so on, it really should be done elsewhere guys.

[latineg]

can you douche bags quit arguing over what is considered eastern europe or not

seriously ur all neadertals over there regarless of the patternz of your interbreeding

everybody fuck the other personz sister and will all call it even

[andyZOR]

lol i like this thread :lol:

[Nosbor]

can you douche bags quit arguing over what is considered eastern europe or not

seriously ur all neadertals over there regarless of the patternz of your interbreeding

everybody fuck the other personz sister and will all call it even

We have an English professor contributing. :patsch

[latineg]

We have an English professor contributing. :patsch

Noseboar juz cuss i dont give a shyte bout English articulation doesnt mean u cant understand my pointz

dont be offended about the sister comment, if you did your own by accident we wont hold it against you

u sly devil trying to cover up the truth with your lack o credobilitiez cuss o not usin ze queenz english appropriately

<<< ramz websterz dicktionary up noseboarz arse

(hard cover)

[Nosbor]

Noseboar juz cuss i dont give a shyte bout English articulation doesnt mean u cant understand my pointz

dont be offended about the sister comment, if you did your own by accident we wont hold it against you

u sly devil trying to cover up the truth with your lack o credobilitiez cuss o not usin ze queenz english appropriately

<<< ramz websterz dicktionary up noseboarz arse

(hard cover)

:huh

Did your parents have any children that lived???

[latineg]

:huh

Did your parents have any children that lived???

only the onez my parentz coulnt catch and eat nosebone :think

[randeris]

can you douche bags quit arguing over what is considered eastern europe or not

seriously ur all neadertals over there regarless of the patternz of your interbreeding

everybody fuck the other personz sister and will all call it even
Do you think you are tough because you diss other people on the fucking internet? Learn to spell. You are what i would call a typical ignorant idiot, knowing nothing about society and thus feeling that acting tough is the easy way out.

[randeris]

Now, let's carry on talking boxing yes?

I agree that Dzindziruk should be on the list by the thread starter, but otherwise very solid list. Boytsov should become really good.

[latineg]

Do you think you are tough because you diss other people on the fucking internet? Learn to spell. You are what i would call a typical ignorant idiot, knowing nothing about society and thus feeling that acting tough is the easy way out.

acting tough is the easy way out

you just proved that dipstick

get it ?

wow this post waz easy :smooch

[boxeo#1]

Undefeated champ, has to be on the list.



Abraham is an ethnic Armenian, grew up and learned to box there. So i don't see how him living and fighting out of Germany now negates his ethnicity & the fact that he aquired his skill/training there.

If you think Armenians are asian then i don't know what the fuck to tell you. Ethnically, Genetically and Lingustically they are related to Europeans. They also were the first state to officially adopt Christianity again culturally putting them in the European sphere.

Geographicaly seen, Armenia lies in the Asian continent. Period. I do understand your points though;)

[Siren1927]

abrams boxes under the german flag, no matter where he originated from he has to pass as German boxer (armenian origin) apart from the fact that Armenia is an asian country, same as Kazakhstan


They both qualify as European under the Football qualifications etc....

[boxeo#1]

They both qualify as European under the Football qualifications etc....

What do u mean? Kazakhstan European?!:nut That is absolutely ridiculous.:lol:

[andyZOR]

They both qualify as European under the Football qualifications etc....

Thats what i was using. But whatever, according to Wikipedia theres Kazakhstani territory in Europe if you wanna get technical.

[Vysotsky]

:huh

Did your parents have any children that lived???

lol

Now, let's carry on talking boxing yes?

I agree that Dzindziruk should be on the list by the thread starter, but otherwise very solid list. Boytsov should become really good.

Yeah Dzinziruk has to be on there, an undefeated champion.

I have some high fucking hopes for Boytsov. Hope he lives up to his potential and keeps improving.

[Flurry]

They both qualify as European under the Football qualifications etc....

I know but thats ridiculous in itself innit and its not saying much as even israel compete in Uefa Footie events. You can be admitted to Uefa events for a variety of reasons but belonging to Europe doesnt seem to be one of them

[NBT]

I know but thats ridiculous in itself innit and its not saying much as even israel compete in Uefa Footie events. You can be admitted to Uefa events for a variety of reasons but belonging to Europe doesnt seem to be one of them
And even better, after they were kicked out of the Asian football federation and before they joined UEFA they competed in the Oceanian Football Federation for a few years. :lol:

[Flurry]

And even better, after they were kicked out of the Asian football federation and before they joined UEFA they competed in the Oceanian Football Federation for a few years. :lol:

:lol:

Careful, they ll now claim israels part of oceania.

[Rick G]

Why do immigrants always cry about how they are treated in their respective HOST nations? Rather than exact change in their homeland, they scurry away and start pointing fingers at their benefactors. Often bringing with them the same antiquated and even destructive customs that made their homelands so intolerable.


Oh but it will be fine in the long run because these usurpers will simply outbreed their hosts, as evidences by bodhi's last sentence. These host nations with liberal immigration polocies are digging their own graves, albeit with a teaspoon.
... well, that's Germany in brief. IMHO immigration in general is not the problem. The immigration of unskilled people with theocratic belief is. Approx. 10% of new born childs have muslim parents in Germany.