UFC is Drowning

[Sloth]

After the terrible TUF finale saturday night, it is obvious the UFC is clawing at bringing flash into the organization. First off, Roy Nelson is the ultimate fighter, I knew he would be from the time the show started. The guys on this show were out of shape clowns. Roy was the best and he is nothing special at all.

Second, Kimbo Slice got a fight in the UFC he never deserved. I was wrong about this one. I picked Houston to crack him out of there in under a minute. Instead we were all tourtured with 3 rounds of one dimensional fighters. Houston needs to quit if he can't beat slice.

Now, onto one of Dana's many "special announcements". He builds them up and they are always lame. We got the surprize that Chuck Liddell and Tito Ortiz will be the coaches on TUF 11.:patsch Nobody in thier right mind wants to see them fight.

The UFC is just getting sad and desperate. I was glad to see Hendo go to Strikeforce. I hope more people support strikeforce and stop feeding Dana White's ego with thier hard earned money.

The UFC has peaked, now it will start it's descent.:hi:

[Sardu]

Hendo is in Strikeforce? Wow, I can't wait to see Hendo vs Mousasi.

[Sloth]

Hendo is in Strikeforce? Wow, I can't wait to see Hendo vs Mousasi.



That will be good.:good

[Beebs]

They have always been a pretty "big picture" company, none of the issues brought up really amount to anything that will go beyond a month or two. We'll see how everything turns out in 2-3 years.

[Sloth]

They have always been a pretty "big picture" company, none of the issues brought up really amount to anything that will go beyond a month or two. We'll see how everything turns out in 2-3 years.



I said 2 years ago that the UFC would become like the WWE in 5 years. So I agree with you. In 2-3 years we will know. I think it will be just like the wwe. I was laughing the other night when they interviewed Hulk Hogan:lol: I think my prediction is coming true.

[The Mighty One]

The UFC has peaked. The only big fight is Silva vs St. Pierre. The UFC will have to go the way of boxing and co-promote with others like Strikeforce to get great matches like Mousasi, Fedor and Cung Le involved.

[AJAX]

The UFC has peaked. The only big fight is Silva vs St. Pierre. The UFC will have to go the way of boxing and co-promote with others like Strikeforce to get great matches like Mousasi, Fedor and Cung Le involved.

You people have been saying this crap for years now, it's amazing the UFC is still alive isn't it?

[thejokerswild]

Blame dana. Fedor would be in there if it wasn't for him.

[Vitor Belfort]

Blame dana. Fedor would be in there if it wasn't for him.

true.. i hope dana will let fedor fight a one fight deal against lesnar. Everybody wants to see that fight.

[Beebs]

Blame dana. Fedor would be in there if it wasn't for him.

Do you honestly believe that? For that to be true it would imply that Lorenzo doesn't have the final word; Dana owns 10%, Lorenzo owns about 45, who do you think makes the final call?

The reason Fedor isn't in the UFC is down to one thing, copromotion; M1 wants half, and there is no way they will get it as long as Zuffa is being run as a business rathe than a charity and at least one single person with a calculator is an employee.

[boxingcar]

Hendo is in Strikeforce? Wow, I can't wait to see Hendo vs Mousasi.

this should be great..

[jc]

having one dominant comnpany with a monopoly over a business is never good. UFC cant exist on its own, it HAS peaked!

However with a competitor like Strikeforce, UFC will be forced to up its game. Also co promotion is going to be standard practice in a few years, Dana better get used to the idea...

[Tko4]

Drowning? They're making money hand over first. Like Beebs said, they're a company thinking about the big picture. Who cares if one fight sucked? Who cares if one fighter went to Strikeforce? It doesn't make any difference. They're still pumping out cards people pony up $50 bucks to watch, and putting on entertaining free shows to entice the casual fans.

I'm not a fan of the UFC business model, but all this crap recently about how the UFC is dying is absolutely bogus. People are just hating for the sake of hating.

[Beebs]

Define "peaked". Market share? Yes, probably they will not have a greater market share than before. Thing is market share is not profit, return on investment, market value, or any other bottom line figure; those things are what companies want to grow, market share is a means to an end.

To think that Zuffa won't increase it's ROI, profit, and company value is, to say the least, foolish.

[Beebs]

I said 2 years ago that the UFC would become like the WWE in 5 years. So I agree with you. In 2-3 years we will know. I think it will be just like the wwe. I was laughing the other night when they interviewed Hulk Hogan:lol: I think my prediction is coming true.
Pretty empty statement; what is "just like the WWE"? What exactly does that mean?

You could just as easily say "NFL", "Premiership", or any other business entity, except they don't have the negative connotation of pro wrestling?

Do you think they are going to risk their entire company, which some financial analyists value at $1,000,000,000 by running fake matches? Do you think they are going to be more able to corrupt various commisions more than boxing promoters who had more relative amounts of money, power, and connections?

[Vanboxingfan]

Do you honestly believe that? For that to be true it would imply that Lorenzo doesn't have the final word; Dana owns 10%, Lorenzo owns about 45, who do you think makes the final call?

The reason Fedor isn't in the UFC is down to one thing, copromotion; M1 wants half, and there is no way they will get it as long as Zuffa is being run as a business rathe than a charity and at least one single person with a calculator is an employee.


Why's that? I works pretty well in boxing. And I'm damn sure it would work out better for the fighters.

I personally think one of the main problems with UFC is they're paying their fighters peanuts, there was one promotion where one of the fighters got paid about 26K, now I don't know who's responsible for the training costs, but my guess is that this probably doesn't even cover that.

It's pathetic what these guys get paid relative to the revenues they generate. And this is something I usually don't say, I'm a self employed accountant and I hate unions with a passion, but they're simply trying to create a monopoly so that they fighters have no options. That's one of the reasons Fedor wouldn't fight there. One would think the fighters, since it's their blood and guts being spelt should be entitled to about 50-60% of the revenues generated, my guess, and it's only a guess, is that they're getting about 25-30%. Certainly they're not getting anyway near the purses that Mayweather, and Pacquiao are getting. If this was a UFC they'd be lucky to make a million a piece.

[Vanboxingfan]

Define "peaked". Market share? Yes, probably they will not have a greater market share than before. Thing is market share is not profit, return on investment, market value, or any other bottom line figure; those things are what companies want to grow, market share is a means to an end.

To think that Zuffa won't increase it's ROI, profit, and company value is, to say the least, foolish.

I don't. You can't really have a business model predicated on ripping off those who bring you the revenues. That seems to be the way things currently are. UFC fights make a fraction of what boxers generate for PPV events. Hell ODL probably's make more money than the entire fighting staff of UFC combined. You might think this is a sustainable business model, but I don't, not unless the fighters start getting a bigger slice of the pie.

[Beebs]

If you're an accountant, certainly I don't need to explain the reasons Zuffa cannot sanely look at the marginal cost of giving half to M1 the company, In addition to paying Fedor the fighter, and say "yea, that's an even remotely feasable business option."

[Beebs]

I don't. You can't really have a business model predicated on ripping off those who bring you the revenues. That seems to be the way things currently are. UFC fights make a fraction of what boxers generate for PPV events. Hell ODL probably's make more money than the entire fighting staff of UFC combined. You might think this is a sustainable business model, but I don't, not unless the fighters start getting a bigger slice of the pie.

You seem to be grossly underestating the value of the UFC brand in generating revenue; they can sell fights on the name alone practically.

Golden Boy promotions cannot put on a card without superstars and draw viewers and/or turn a profit. Equally, as Afflicition and EliteXC showed, you can have big name fighters and they won't turn an acceptable profit because they don't have the brand behind it to market it.

[Tko4]

You seem to be grossly underestating the value of the UFC brand in generating revenue; they can sell fights on the name alone practically.

Golden Boy promotions cannot put on a card without superstars and draw viewers and/or turn a profit. Equally, as Afflicition and EliteXC showed, you can have big name fighters and they won't turn an acceptable profit because they don't have the brand behind it to market it.

Exactly. People say, "Hey, UFC is on!" and not, "Lesnar vs. Carwin is tonight!" People buy UFC cards, whereas in boxing, people buy specific fights. No one tunes in to see HBO boxing. They tune in for Pacquiao-Cotto.

The UFC isn't going anywhere anytime soon, as much as some people in this thread like to think.

[Nosbor]

Solid points on both sides of the issue. However no disrespect intended but the issues/solutions in question have been articulated to death over past few years. Frankly it is making my head hurt!:twisted:

Perhaps I should start following NCAA football again, there are no controversy/corruption issues there. :hey

At least The Tide are rolling again....

[Koa]

Pretty empty statement; what is "just like the WWE"? What exactly does that mean?

You could just as easily say "NFL", "Premiership", or any other business entity, except they don't have the negative connotation of pro wrestling?

Do you think they are going to risk their entire company, which some financial analyists value at $1,000,000,000 by running fake matches? Do you think they are going to be more able to corrupt various commisions more than boxing promoters who had more relative amounts of money, power, and connections?

Mmm, I think there are parallels to the UFC becoming like the WWE. Not necessarily fake matches, but the experience is transforming into something different when we watch the show.. While not as dramatic and more true to life, Dana White is becoming a lot like Vince McMahon... Latest example of this has been his open distaste for Roy Nelson, then Nelson comming back for a win..

I don't think many people would mind watching someone like Couture show up one day and beat Dana over the head with a chair, and follow up by shaving off one of his eyebrows with some clippers. Just seeing Hulk Hogan on the show made me vomit in my mouth a little.

[HomicideHenry]

With Lesnar out, Dana can forget about the big ppv buys now.

[Burundanga]

It is a bit disconcerting that the UFC is co-promoting with pro wrestling. I'd of thought that they would have longer term benefits from their association with real sports.

Legitimacy has been a long and hard road for MMA and Dana/UFC have been very important factors in MMAs credibility as a sport.

Co-promoting with sports entertainment seems like a step backwards.

[Vanboxingfan]

If you're an accountant, certainly I don't need to explain the reasons Zuffa cannot sanely look at the marginal cost of giving half to M1 the company, In addition to paying Fedor the fighter, and say "yea, that's an even remotely feasable business option."

Firstly, you're using the term marginal cost in the wrong context. Marginal cost refers to the extra cost of generating an additional dollar in profit, which has nothing to do with this particular discussion.

Fact is they get x amount from the gate, x amount from PPV and/or television rights and x amount from advertising. and maybe x amount from DVD sales and things of that nature, for each fight. Now what you can afford to do it pay a fighter a guaranteed minimum, and a % of the revenues derived from PPV and perhaps a small entitlement to the DVD sales. Advertising would seem to be something that the promoters would be entitled to, as the fighter wouldn't have participated in the aspect of generating this income. Promoters would also be entitled to a % of the revenues after expenses. This is pretty much how the boxing world works, don't see why it can't work in the UFC.

[Vanboxingfan]

You seem to be grossly underestating the value of the UFC brand in generating revenue; they can sell fights on the name alone practically.

Golden Boy promotions cannot put on a card without superstars and draw viewers and/or turn a profit. Equally, as Afflicition and EliteXC showed, you can have big name fighters and they won't turn an acceptable profit because they don't have the brand behind it to market it.

Well that's your opinion, not mine. If I hear a list of unknown fighters on a card, I'm not buying it. But if I hear GSP is fighting, or Silva Anderson, my interest is perked as to who they're fighting and if I think it's going to be competitive, I'm looking to watch.

And I'm almost damn sure that if PBF and Pacquaio ever sign they'll break any PPV records that the UFC may hold.

[Vanboxingfan]

You seem to be grossly underestating the value of the UFC brand in generating revenue; they can sell fights on the name alone practically.

Golden Boy promotions cannot put on a card without superstars and draw viewers and/or turn a profit. Equally, as Afflicition and EliteXC showed, you can have big name fighters and they won't turn an acceptable profit because they don't have the brand behind it to market it.


So if the brand meant so much, then perhaps Hendo would have resigned. He didn't because he wanted the best economic deal he could get. Tito and a host of other fighters have left the UFC over the same issue.

I'm not sure what the difference between the UFC "brand" and their marketing budget, but to the extent Fedor is fighting, and people are made aware of who he is, and are aware of the date, I think he can attract both viewers and sponsors.

[Vanboxingfan]

Exactly. People say, "Hey, UFC is on!" and not, "Lesnar vs. Carwin is tonight!" People buy UFC cards, whereas in boxing, people buy specific fights. No one tunes in to see HBO boxing. They tune in for Pacquiao-Cotto.

The UFC isn't going anywhere anytime soon, as much as some people in this thread like to think.

Well for me it is. I care way more about who is fighting then whether or not it's a UFC card. Meaning I'd watch Lesnar vs Carwin on any MMA show before just watching a random UFC card containing a bunch of fighters I don't know. Now if you're point would have been that the fact we even know about these two fighters is because of the UFC, then you'd be on to something.

Put it another way, if Fedor and Lesnar were going to fight, would you really care who was promoting it? If it was a Strikeforce card are you telling me you wouldn't watch it?

Also keep in mind if it was co-promoted, perhaps the UFC would have to share revenues, but the revenue pie would be gigantic, so 100% of a small pie, isn't always better than 50% of a huge pie.

[AJAX]

Firstly, you're using the term marginal cost in the wrong context. Marginal cost refers to the extra cost of generating an additional dollar in profit, which has nothing to do with this particular discussion.

Fact is they get x amount from the gate, x amount from PPV and/or television rights and x amount from advertising. and maybe x amount from DVD sales and things of that nature, for each fight. Now what you can afford to do it pay a fighter a guaranteed minimum, and a % of the revenues derived from PPV and perhaps a small entitlement to the DVD sales. Advertising would seem to be something that the promoters would be entitled to, as the fighter wouldn't have participated in the aspect of generating this income. Promoters would also be entitled to a % of the revenues after expenses. This is pretty much how the boxing world works, don't see why it can't work in the UFC.

What do you think the guys on The undercards of boxing cards make? I guarantee there all not getting huge money. I would like to know the exact numbers .

[AJAX]

Exactly. People say, "Hey, UFC is on!" and not, "Lesnar vs. Carwin is tonight!" People buy UFC cards, whereas in boxing, people buy specific fights. No one tunes in to see HBO boxing. They tune in for Pacquiao-Cotto.

The UFC isn't going anywhere anytime soon, as much as some people in this thread like to think.

Being a boxing site the UFC will get extra hate on here but in general bitching is the norm around here. People bitch no matter what and that's the truth especially if the UFC gives them a reason it's like vultures on a carcus.

[ufoalf]

They're not drowning. Their model is very simple and it works. They don't pay their fighters but they promote them. Sponsors pay for the fighters and they make shit load of money. People like Rich Franklin used to get measly 30k payouts for wins while he was a champion but with endorsements they make millions. UFC sells which creates endorsements for fighters. Sponsors end up being the actual salary. Kind of like servers in restaurants that make 3$ an hour but tips make them earn much more than that.
They make good money and it will take 3 years of shitty cards for them to drown.

[Vanboxingfan]

What do you think the guys on The undercards of boxing cards make? I guarantee there all not getting huge money. I would like to know the exact numbers .


Here are the exact numbers you asked for. Live gate was a little over $3M
Some fighters such as Koscheck made an addition 70K (in his case times 2) for bonuses. Jacob Volkmann got paid a grand total of 6K. And it looks like Forrest had to win his fight with Tito just to match his purse.

===================================================

The total disclosed payroll for the event was $1,021,000.

Other top earners included main-card fighters Josh Koscheck ($106,000) and UFC newcomer Antonio Rogerio Nogueira ($100,000) and preliminary-card fighter Kendall Grove ($44,000).

The full lit of payouts includes:

Forrest Griffin: $250,000 (includes $150,000 win bonus)
def. Tito Ortiz: $250,000

Josh Koscheck: $106,000 ($53,000 win bonus)
def. Anthony Johnson: $17,000

Paulo Thiago: $16,000 ($8,000 win bonus)
def. Jacob Volkmann: $6,000

Antonio Rogerio Nogueira: $100,000 ($30,000 win bonus)
def. Luiz Cane: $19,000

Amir Sadollah: $30,000 ($15,000 win bonus)
def. Phil Baroni: $25,000

Ben Saunders: $20,000 ($10,000 win bonus)
def. Marcus Davis: $27,000

Kendall Grove: $44,000 ($22,000 win bonus)
def. Jake Rosholt: $15,000

Brian Foster: $12,000 ($6,000 win bonus)
def. Brock Larson: $26,000

Caol Uno: $20,000
vs. Fabricio Camoes: $10,000
(Both fighters earned show money; bout declared majority draw)

George Sotiropoulos: $20,000 ($10,000 win bonus)
def. Jason Dent: $8,000

Now, the usual disclaimer: The figures do not include deductions for items such as insurance, licenses and taxes. Additionally, the figures do not include money paid by sponsors, which can oftentimes be a substantial portion of a fighter's income. They also do not include any other "locker room" or special bonuses the UFC oftentimes pays.

[Wiirdo]

I have just completely lost interest in UFC now. I couldn't wait for it to be on before, but now they're shovelling out some really shit cards. I even get it free over here and I don't watch it.

UFC peaked with 100.

[Vanboxingfan]

I stole this post from another site.

=================================================================

was wondering what the fighters get paid in the UFC and was surprised to find the following list as I started my search:

UFC 51:

Below is the pay scale for UFC 51 as released by the Nevada State Athletic Commission:

Tito Ortiz: USD$125,000 to show, USD$50,000 to win
Vitor Belfort: USD$100,000 to show, win bonus would've been USD$40,000
Tim Sylvia: USD$40,000 to show, win bonus would've been USD$40,000
Evan Tanner: USD$18,000 to show, USD$20,000 to win
Andrei Arlovski: USD$12,000 to show, USD$18,000 to win
Nick Diaz: USD$6,000 to show, USD$5,000 to win
Phil Baroni: USD$10,000 to show, win bonus would've been USD$10,000
Paul Buentello: USD$4,000 to show, USD$4,000 to win
Karo Parisyan: USD$4,000 to show, USD$4,000 to win
Mike Kyle: USD$3,000 to show, USD$3,000 to win



David Terrell: USD$6,000 to show, win bonus would've been USD$6,000
****** Eilers: USD$5,000 to show, win bonus would've been USD$5,000
Chris Lytle: USD$4,000 to show, win bonus would've been USD$4,000
David Loiseau: USD$2,000 to show, USD$2,000 to win
Pete Sell: USD$2,000 to show, USD$2,000 to win
James Irvin: USD$3,000 to show, win bonus would've been USD$3,000
Drew Fickett: USD$2,000 to show, win bonus would've been USD$2,000
Gideon Ray: USD$2,000 to show, win bonus would've been USD$2,000

UFC 56 Fighter Salaries
Event took place on November 19, 2005

-Matt Hughes: $110,000 ($55,000 for fighting; $55,000 win bonus)

-Jeremy Horn: $50,000 ($25,000 for fighting; $25,000 win bonus)

-Georges St. Pierre: $35,000 ($16,000 for fighting; $19,000 win bonus)

-Rich Franklin: $26,000 ($13,000 for fighting; $13,000 win bonus)

-Joe Riggs: $12,000 ($12,000 for fighting; win bonus would have been $8,000)

-Nate Quarry: $10,000 ($10,000 for fighting; win bonus would have been $10,000)

-Sean Sherk: $10,000 ($10,000 for fighting; win bonus would have been $10,000)

-Sam Hoger: $10,000 ($5,000 for fighting; $5,000 win bonus)

-Trevor Prangley: $6,000 ($6,000 for fighting; win bonus would have been $6,000)

-Gabriel Gonzaga: $6,000 ($3,000 for fighting; $3,000 win bonus)

-Nick Thompson: $6,000 ($3,000 for fighting; $3,000 win bonus)

-Thiago Alves: $4,000 ($2,000 for fighting; $2,000 win bonus)

-Kevin Jordan: $3,000 ($3,000 for fighting; win bonus would have been $3,000)

-Jeff Newton: $2,000 ($2,000 for fighting; win bonus would have been $2,000)

-Ansar Chalangov: $2,000 ($2,000 for fighting; win bonus would have been $2,000)

-Keith Wisniewski: $2,000 ($2,000 for fighting; win bonus would have been $2,000)

Total Fighter Payroll: $294,000 (average of $18,375 per fighter)

UFS 58

Rich Franklin ($34,000) def. David Loiseau ($9,000) via Unanimous Decision.

Mike Swick ($10,000) def. Steve Vigneault ($2,000) via Submission (guillotine choke) in Round 1.

Georges St. Pierre ($48,000) def. B.J. Penn ($25,000) via Split Decision.

Nathan Marquardt ($30,000) def. Joe Doerksen ($5,000) via Unanimous Decision.

Mark Hominick ($4,000) def. Yves Edwards ($8,000) via Submission (triangle armbar) in Round 2.

Sam Stout ($4,000) def. Spencer Fisher ($8,000) via Split Decision.

Jason Lambert ($4,000) def. Rob MacDonald ($5,000) via Submission (kimura) in Round 1.

Tom Murphy ($10,000) def. Icho Larenas ($3,000) via TKO (strikes) in Round 3.

Total fighter payout for UFC 58: $209,000


UFC 60 fighter paydays

This is from various MMA website forums. Not included are bonuses and PPV buyrate percentages.


Royce Gracie: $400,000
Matt Hughes: $55,000
Jeremy Horn: $35,000
Brandon Vera: $16,000
Diego Sanchez: $12,000
Joe Riggs: $12,000
Alessio Sakara: $10,000
Assuerio Silva : $8,000
Spencer Fisher: $7,000
Mike Swick: $7,000
Melvin Guillard: $5,000
Gabriel Gonzaga: $5,000
Dean Lister: $5,000
Chael Sonnan: $5,000
Fabiano Scherner: $3,000
Matt Wiman: $3,000
John Alessio: $3,000
Rick Davis: $2,000

I wrote to the Nevada Athletic Commission to confirm the foregoing amounts and am waiting to hear back from them.

In any event, it seems that these guys are getting paid way to little considering the $$ Zuffa is getting from gate $$, pay per view, and $$ generated from the contract with Spike.

Looks like these guys need to organize and get some agents, usually I would be against that because it would raise the prices for the viewers, but this is not necessarily the case, as at a certain price point (possibly we are already there), Zuffa will have to eat the loss.

[Sloth]

Pretty empty statement; what is "just like the WWE"? What exactly does that mean?

You could just as easily say "NFL", "Premiership", or any other business entity, except they don't have the negative connotation of pro wrestling?

Do you think they are going to risk their entire company, which some financial analyists value at $1,000,000,000 by running fake matches? Do you think they are going to be more able to corrupt various commisions more than boxing promoters who had more relative amounts of money, power, and connections?


Let me rephrase. I thought you would know what I mean. By saying just like the WWE I was meaning, the "announcements", pre fight trash talking, bring the next challenger into the octogon right after a fight is over, reality shows (WWF Tough Enough, TUF), having one man as the leader/villan (white is Vince Mcmahon). All this is being done. There are scripts in the UFC, not the fights so much (but there has been claims of extra pay for ("keep the fight standing"), but in what to say in the reality shows. I know it's entertainment, but what happened to "As Real As It Gets?"

As far as your question about the boxing model corruption, it will happen in time. Dana White will also be the Don King. He isn't activley seeking the matches we all want to see as much as he lets on. He wants to ink the deal for garage sale prices and charge premiums to see it. I am all for business and free enterprise, but he [White] is going overboard.

[BIGRIGHTHAND]

Boxing will alway be bigger than MMA and thats a fact. UFC is great stuff but i believe its at its peak and fans will start getting alway from it. I hate the UFC tv show. A bunch of big men acting like children. so inmature. BOXING IS THE BEST. Real men boxing,, not roll on the ground and twist ankles lol.

[Sloth]

They're not drowning. Their model is very simple and it works. They don't pay their fighters but they promote them. Sponsors pay for the fighters and they make shit load of money. People like Rich Franklin used to get measly 30k payouts for wins while he was a champion but with endorsements they make millions. UFC sells which creates endorsements for fighters. Sponsors end up being the actual salary. Kind of like servers in restaurants that make 3$ an hour but tips make them earn much more than that.
They make good money and it will take 3 years of shitty cards for them to drown.


If you wear thier brands. And drink thier drinks. It might as well be kool aid in jonestown. UFC strongarms fighters

[FourThinInches]

Drowning? They're making money hand over first. Like Beebs said, they're a company thinking about the big picture. Who cares if one fight sucked? Who cares if one fighter went to Strikeforce? It doesn't make any difference. They're still pumping out cards people pony up $50 bucks to watch, and putting on entertaining free shows to entice the casual fans.

I'm not a fan of the UFC business model, but all this crap recently about how the UFC is dying is absolutely bogus. People are just hating for the sake of hating.

Strikeforce just started making moves against the UFC like 3-4 months ago and look at the fire it has started. If you cannot see that the UFC has peaked when SF is signing great fighters, having Successful events getting more views than UFC events. not to mention the massive movement against the UFC and the joke cards they are putting out.

UFC doesnt even have the best HW in the world on their roster. Dan Hendo signed, Rampage has one fight left on his deal with the UFC, where will he go once his fight is up? Groveling back to white? Or to someone that is willing to work with him and let him do movies?

Dont even compare this to affliction, Strikeforce had 25 million viewers watch that Fedor card. UFC 105 had 2.9 million viewers .... Time to start giving us good cards in the UFC.

[ufoalf]

If you wear thier brands. And drink thier drinks. It might as well be kool aid in jonestown. UFC strongarms fighters

Well, you don't drink THEIR kool aid but you drink the kool aid by the brands they allow to sponsor you. Yes, they do strongarm a lot, no doubt. But many of their fighters get paid much more than what you see in the payouts.

[Vanboxingfan]

They're not drowning. Their model is very simple and it works. They don't pay their fighters but they promote them. Sponsors pay for the fighters and they make shit load of money. People like Rich Franklin used to get measly 30k payouts for wins while he was a champion but with endorsements they make millions. UFC sells which creates endorsements for fighters. Sponsors end up being the actual salary. Kind of like servers in restaurants that make 3$ an hour but tips make them earn much more than that.
They make good money and it will take 3 years of shitty cards for them to drown.

That's like saying pay basketball, football and baseball, golf and tennis players shit because they can make money off their endorsements. It's apples and oranges. Do you think the UFC has a bigger marketing budget than the NFL, not a hope in hell, but the NFL players make milions, not like some UFC fighters making 6K for a fight, that's pathetic, considering the training costs involved.

If a fighter puts bums in the seats or gets people to watch fights at home, he should be compensated fairly for doing this, irregardless of what he makes promoting clothes, drinks, or whatever else may arise.

[AJAX]

I actually meant what do boxers on the undercards make?

[ufoalf]

That's like saying pay basketball, football and baseball, golf and tennis players shit because they can make money off their endorsements. It's apples and oranges. Do you think the UFC has a bigger marketing budget than the NFL, not a hope in hell, but the NFL players make milions, not like some UFC fighters making 6K for a fight, that's pathetic, considering the training costs involved.

If a fighter puts bums in the seats or gets people to watch fights at home, he should be compensated fairly for doing this, irregardless of what he makes promoting clothes, drinks, or whatever else may arise.

Listen, I'm speaking comparatively. Clearly you can't compare it to NFL or NBA, it's not comparable. UFC is much younger, in fact this model has only been applied 2000ish. But it's similar. Comparing salaries of NFL players and basketball players to fighters is ridiculous. It's terrible and the sports are different. Basketball teams play 80 games a year and sell out big crowds each game, fighters of any kind physically cannot do that. Playoffs bring money to the city and the promotion levels and money overturn on the city level is humongous. Same with NFL. Not to mention these are televised on national TV with big deals and coverages. Stupid comparison. Period.

Boxers are the same way, you think boxers that fight 4 round pro fights get payed alot? or even 6rnd or 8 round? For 4 round fight they'd be lucky to get 2k purse with a win. But they do get sponsors, even if it's small time and even local. Most pro fighters have real jobs, and even HBO undercards make around 10k or so.

[Vanboxingfan]

Listen, I'm speaking comparatively. Clearly you can't compare it to NFL or NBA, it's not comparable. UFC is much younger, in fact this model has only been applied 2000ish. But it's similar. Comparing salaries of NFL players and basketball players to fighters is ridiculous. It's terrible and the sports are different. Basketball teams play 80 games a year and sell out big crowds each game, fighters of any kind physically cannot do that. Playoffs bring money to the city and the promotion levels and money overturn on the city level is humongous. Same with NFL. Not to mention these are televised on national TV with big deals and coverages. Stupid comparison. Period.

Boxers are the same way, you think boxers that fight 4 round pro fights get payed alot? or even 6rnd or 8 round? For 4 round fight they'd be lucky to get 2k purse with a win. But they do get sponsors, even if it's small time and even local. Most pro fighters have real jobs, and even HBO undercards make around 10k or so.

You were basically saying the fact fighters bring in the fans doesn't matter because they should be thankful they get sponsorship revenue. If anything is ridiculous it's that comment. A fighter should be paid at least partially for the amount of revenues he brings in. For example it was reported on another thread Kimbo got paid 25K for his fight on Spike TV, do you think that's fair considering he alone probably counted for a few million fans, which as you know, the more fans that watch, the more the advertisers pay. It's a joke what he was paid, plain and simple.

And back to boxers, yes I think PBF and Pacquaio make more money than Anderson Silva and GSP, and this is on a comparative basis, meaning if you adjusted things to make them apples to apples. Ie the same amount of PPV revenues and gate revenues. In fact I don't think it would be close.

As for marginal boxers getting paid 2K for a win, I don't have a problem with that if there's a few hundred fans in attendance, I'm not suggesting promoters should lose money to support a fighter, but if they're on TV and part of a PPV package, it shouldn't happen.

So the bottom line, is that this is only a sustainable model if the fighters allow it to be. If they have alternatives, like Hendo, they'll make the best deal they can regardless of who the promoters are. Other UFC fighters such as Tito have also sat out for periods of time to get a fair deal.

As for this model being new, I disagree with that too. It's not all that new, it strikes me as the one the WWF used for years.