Top five of the last forty years ?

[cuchulain]

Name your top five fighters of the last forty years in terms of natural boxing ability.

CONSIDER

speed
reflexes
style
movement
ring generalship
offence
defence
timing
counterpunching

Just to get the old ball rolling, in chronological order:

Ali
Leonard
Sweetpea
Jones
Mayweather

[pryorgatti]

I agree with Cuchulain/

[drunkenspaniard]

In no order
Ali
Duran
Leonard
Hagler
Jones

[Asterion]

Leonard
Duran
Hagler
Whitaker
Jones


Then you have Ali, Chavez, Mayweather, Hopkins, etc.

[brooklyn1550]

Ali
Leonard
Whitaker
Jones, Jr.
Duran

The comes...
Hearns
Hagler
Hopkins
Mayweather
Holmes
Chavez
Holyfield
Benitez
Lewis
Lopez
Arguello
Barrera
Tyson
De La Hoya
Tszyu
Toney
Wright
Mosley
Curry
Nunn
etc.

[China_hand_Joe]

Calzaghe
Jones
Whitaker
Mayweather
Duran

[bigtime9]

Mayweather
Jones
leonard
Sweet Pea
Ali

[josak]

Ali
Leonard
Whitaker
Jones, Jr.
Duran

The comes...
Hearns
Hagler
Hopkins
Mayweather
Holmes
Chavez
Holyfield
Benitez
Lewis
Lopez
Arguello
Barrera
De La Hoya
Tszyu
Toney
Wright
Mosley
Curry
Nunn
etc.
nO MENTION OF TYSON?! SACRILAGE

[brooklyn1550]

nO MENTION OF TYSON?! SACRILAGE

:patsch My bad...he slipped my mind - after all, he didn't exactly have a crowd pleasing style:D

[China_hand_Joe]

Stop being a jackass.

The question was who is the best natural boxer, not who has the best resume or who performed the highest during their boxing careers.

Solid post.

The American resume obsession is out of control, they bring it up on thread specifically designed to avoid the whole resume issue.

[China_hand_Joe]

:rofl
Calzaghe....




Jones
Whitaker
Mayweather
Duran




Better?

[Marnoff]

Jones, Leonard, Whitaker, Mayweather, Ali....

Based purely on "natural boxing talent" I would take this five.

Tyson, to me, required more training and repetition of techniques, whereas someone like Jones could do stuff that you could not train someone to do. Bernard Hopkins again learned his style by watching the past legends and perfecting it, so it wasn't necessarily a "natural ability" that helped him rise to the top, albeit anyone who reaches such a high level must have some ability to start with.

Tough to beat the five I've listed here for just "having it".

[Marnoff]

And about the long reign I guess its ok to put Calzaghe in the top 5 but not Hopkins?

It is actually not difficult to make a case about Calzaghe being a more natural boxer than Hopkins.

[chimba]

Are we talking about Natural or possessing those aforementioned skills??? Because if we are talking abouyt a natural fighter its PAC

[China_hand_Joe]

So you're ridiculing me for getting on someone for ragging on his pick of Finito. Please tell me what was natural about Finito. Black is not responding because he realizes he was wrong, so maybe you can enlighten me.

"CONSIDER

speed
reflexes
style
movement
ring generalship
offence
defence
timing
counterpunching"

Create arguments based on these factors of Lopez's abilities which form a case suggesting he isn't a naturally talented fighter...

[sthomas]

Hard to argue with the first list, but a young Camacho would make my list. Imagine if he was more dedicated?

[China_hand_Joe]

In that case the thread didn't make sense, because none of that has to do with being a naturally talented fighter. It has more to do with being a completely textbook boxer, in which case you could certainly make a case. But the above and being "naturally talented" don't go hand in hand at all.

Which one do you want?

Co-ordination
Timing
Reflexes
Speed
Power
Chin

Lopez has those. Calzaghe certainly does. Both to a greater extent than Hopkins too.

Lopez has those attributes and applied them into a text book style.

[China_hand_Joe]

Hopkins relies on his intelligence and conditioning.

Hopkins almost 100% fullfilled his potential (through hard-work and technique), Calzaghe about 50% of his potential, but Calzaghe beats him anyway. You cannot list the man who lost to Roy Jones so comfortably.

[China_hand_Joe]

I think Speed is the only one there that you can say Calzaghe has got the edge over Hopkins in.Calzaghe was a talented footballer. Hopkins was a criminal. Calzaghe has the universally transferable talent.

[China_hand_Joe]

Their timing is equal and it is all Hopkins has to rely on.

Calzaghe has a billion superior attributes relevant in boxing.

[DanePugilist]

Hopkins relies on his intelligence and conditioning.

Hopkins almost 100% fullfilled his potential (through hard-work and technique), Calzaghe about 50% of his potential, but Calzaghe beats him anyway. You cannot list the man who lost to Roy Jones so comfortably.How can he be 50% when his potential is limitless?

[China_hand_Joe]

Imagine the following scenario...

Hopkins, Lopez and Calzaghe are all mentally retarded. Their capacity for learning is somewhat limited.

Hopkins is the worst of the lot, by far.

[China_hand_Joe]

Hopkins' 'learning ability' is a result of his environment, not his genes.

[China_hand_Joe]

Hopkins is just an example of totally fullfilled potential, not an unbelievable talent.

[China_hand_Joe]

Totally fullfiled potential due to talent :thumbsup

Just because he's not flashy doesn't mean he's not talented. Being smart is a talent, having great defense and ring generalship, being dedicated, and timing is also a talent. Just because he's not Roy Jones fast or a one punch KO artist don't forget everything else.

'Smartness' is almost entirely based on environment, not genetics. You could in theory train just about any baby in the world up to be a genius.

You cannot train them to have Joe Calzaghe muscluar composition and reflexes. You can train them a little, not to Calzaghe's level though.

[cardstars]

Leonard
Hagler
Duran
Mayweather
Ali

[cardstars]

Imagine the following scenario...

Hopkins, Lopez and Calzaghe are all mentally retarded. Their capacity for learning is somewhat limited.

Hopkins is the worst of the lot, by far.

LMAO you are taking this pretty far

[Alo2006]

Jones, Leonard, Whitaker, Mayweather, Ali....

Based purely on "natural boxing talent" I would take this five.

Tyson, to me, required more training and repetition of techniques, whereas someone like Jones could do stuff that you could not train someone to do. Bernard Hopkins again learned his style by watching the past legends and perfecting it, so it wasn't necessarily a "natural ability" that helped him rise to the top, albeit anyone who reaches such a high level must have some ability to start with.

Tough to beat the five I've listed here for just "having it".

Those are my top five :yep :good

[kg0208]

Jones, Curry, Hearns, Whitaker, Tyson on just natural ability.

[kg0208]

Let me also make mention of Wladamir Klitshco. His natural speed, power, technique, etc are awesome for not only a man of his size, but simply in general. You would be hard pressed to find a HW with faster hands than Wladamir....

And no I am not a Klitshco fan.

[cuchulain]

Mayweather
Jones
leonard
Sweet Pea
Ali


Hey big time,

History in the making.

For once we're in complete agreement.

You have the same five I used to start the thread.

[brooklyn1550]

Hopkins is just an example of totally fullfilled potential, not an unbelievable talent.

If you can become a 2-division world champion, remain undefeated for 10 years, and have 21 title defenses, you are an unbelievable talent. Maybe not the greatest talent, but when you look at the full spectrum, you have to consider that person an unbelievable talent.