Do You Think Club Fighters & Journeymen Are Bums

[Butch Coolidge]

Are the fighters who routinely enter the ring, mainly as a second job, and often just to make the real talent look good "bums"?

[SteveO]

Lotta greats start as clubbies, right?

[Zakman]

Are the fighters who routinely enter the ring, mainly as a second job, and often just to make the real talent look good "bums"?

Hell no. No fighter who's in there giving an honest effort is a "bum."

Now, I might feel a bit different about a professional "tomato can" who shows up just to fall down and collect a paycheck.

[brooklyn1550]

No, club fighters and journeymen are not bums. Not by a longshot...

[kg0208]

No, and this is why I get agitated when someone refers to a championship level fighter as a bum as well. Even journeymen aren't bums, they have usually paid their dues, become gatekeepers or measuring sticks.

[Nico]

No, and this is why I get agitated when someone refers to a championship level fighter as a bum as well. Even journeymen aren't bums, they have usually paid their dues, become gatekeepers or measuring sticks.


The term "bum" is relative, because the fights we all watch pretty much all take place at the highest level of the sport. Obviously, someone with ten losses that has no chance against a great fighter isn't a bum. They are probably better than 90-95% of all people who box. Everybody knows this, so I don't think it's necessary for anyone to get worked up when people call fighters bums.

[Fedor Em]

Most journeymen and club fighters would whoop 90% of the guys there size so no they are far from bums.

[box03]

Mccall was considered a club fighter for awhile until he knocked out Lewis in 94, since then his career has been up and down and I would love to see him get a title opertunity in the future.

[kg0208]

The term "bum" is relative, because the fights we all watch pretty much all take place at the highest level of the sport. Obviously, someone with ten losses that has no chance against a great fighter isn't a bum. They are probably better than 90-95% of all people who box. Everybody knows this, so I don't think it's necessary for anyone to get worked up when people call fighters bums.

The fact that they are 90-95 % better than most boxers is WHY I get annoyed at the loose usage of the term. It shouldn't be relative. These fighters deserve more respect than that IMO.

[Stinky gloves]

Even Floyd may become a bum when Hatton break his rib.

[cardstars]

Heart and soul of boxing!

[Thread Stealer]

No.

People like to call fighters who aren't among the best dozen or so (often they are) in their weight class IN THE WORLD "bums".

Would you call the 8th best cornerback in the NFL a "bum"? No? But the 8th best boxer in the world (or in the USA) in a particular weight class with frequently be called a "bum". Go figure.

[rendog67]

if anyone turns up for a fight just for a payday and knows they dont even have a chance of winning then that is what i class as a bum

[Cruiser1]

Lotta greats start as clubbies, right?

Not anymore. They're groomed in the amateurs and then the olympics and then they turn pro under a promotional company that feeds them the clubbies and the journeymen. You won't find an Amir Khan or an Andre Ward in any clubs. Those days are over.

I respect anybody that steps into the ring regardless of their talent level or circumstances. We need the journeymen and the clubfighters and every now and then one of them will pull off an upset which gives them a brief moment in the sun and us another underdog story to talk about.

[boxbox]

no...but there are a some that do it because there's nothing else to do for them

[SteveO]

To me, a bum is a guy whose record is full of first round TKO's and not because he has a bad chin, but he takes a knee at the slightest bit of glove contact.

Even a guy with a losing record who puts in an honest effort has my respect, especially if he's the heavy underdog.

[AllyT]

Club fighters deserve all respect. They may never be world, or even national champions, but if we all stopped doing things simply because we will never be the best in the world, no one would do anything. In return for taking part in the sport they love and getting to rub shoulders with the champions of tomorrow, they provide the medium through which the great fighters will ultimately emerge. And of course every now and then we get to witness the late developer taking everyone by surprise.

I am not sure if true journeymen exist in the USA, where this term is applied to 'win some lose some' boxers. These boxers fulfil a specific role and in the British Isles Journeymen are the cornerstone of the sport. Promoters in the UK and Ireland have fewer boxers coming through and as such the culture is to nurture young talent by matching them against these warhorses to let them sharpen their skills against experienced boxers. For the Journeyman this provides a useful second income (they can earn up to 1K per bout). Journeymen may lack the final polish that makes a champion but make no mistake they are as hard as nails. If an emerging boxer takes them likely they can and will hurt you.

Take 38 year old Peter (Professor) Buckley for instance. He has had 287 professional bouts. Of these he has only won 31, drawn 11 and lost 245. However in his 245 losses he has only been stopped 10 times. His opponents include –
Drew Docherty X 2,
Naseem Hamed x 2,
Duke McKenzie x 2,
Michael Brodie,
Scott Harrison x 2,
Michael Brodie,
Michael Gomez,
Bradley Pryce
and Derry Matthews.

You could punch these guys all night and they will just come back for more. It is easy to label a fighter a bum from the safety of the couch, but if this ‘bum’ came home to find you conkers deep in Mrs Buckley your evening would not end well.

[Illmatic]

whats funny is, you see many people with bad records who have actual talent, but were managed poorly and take fights on short notice. One example is Zack Page. This guy is in great shape, has good boxing skills, his record is like 15-17, but hes always called on the last second and he has to fight at heavyweight a lot even though hes a cruiser. He beat Del Valle and lost a split decision to Guinn at heavy.

[jsimps]

Somebody who is labeled a "club fighter" or "journeyman" usually has a losing record or quite a few loses, which means they are out there being hit. I don't define that as being a bum. Most of those guys with less talent typically have a lot of heart. If you give a 110% at doing anything, how could you be degraded for it.

[Bigcat]

You would not have Champions withouthaving second tier or even third tier fighters to develope and hone thier skills on while becoming established..

Johnny Nelson lost 5 out of his first 11 pro fights..

Then went on to dominate the British , commonwealth , European then World Cruiserweight scene..

Be careful who you distinguish as a bum, they can often come and have an indian summer and make your prediction look so dumb..

Jameel only won 2 out of his first 5 , he drew with Albert Williams and Ron Guerrero , lost to Gary Bell, and now he is looking down the barrel of his 4th title shot..

Buster Douglas had a whole bunch of horrendous outings including losses to Mike White and Jessie Ferguson before becoming the first man to stop (beat ) Tyson and become Undisputed heavyweight champ..