Gene Fullmer - Overrated Chin?

[Russell]

I'm beginning to think his chin may be A- level or therabouts. Certainly no LaMotta when it comes to chin.

Evidence to counter this potential sacrilege? Alright.

In 55' against Gil Turner...

"The only knockdown in this bruising affair occurred in the sixth. Following a combination, Turner landed a left hook that sent Fullmer through the ropes. Fullmer, in a groggy state, took a nine-count." -William J. Briordy, The New York Times"

Against Lausse later that year Fullmer was down in the 8th.

In his series with Robinson (Nearly 40 years old) a man that started his career as a lightweight he was sparked out with a single hook.

Bobby Boyd also knocked down Fullmer.

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I'm not saying his chin is garbage, what I am saying is that he was sparked out with a perfectly placed punch, nearly knocked out by a so so hitter in Gil Turner and put on his ass by maybe the hardest pure hitter he faced in Lausse, as well as knocked down by Boyd.

I feel his chin is more then likely a notch below the absolute best to ever grace the sport. No shame, but a bit of a knock against him being affected by much smaller fighters considering what a huge MW he was.

Thoughts?

[Sardu]

I agree with you Russell. Fullmer's chin is not in the category of LaMotta, Chuvalo, Joe Grim, Greb. But probably just a shade below those guys. It was granite but not quite the granite that those aforementioned guys possessed IMO.

[WhataRock]

Lamotta is the benchmark no doubt about that...I wouldnt say in general people say Fullmer's is on the same level anyway. I think it gets rated appropriately, one of the most proven of alltime at the weight whilst at the the same time there are a handful of fighters who have better whiskers.

[Russell]

I agree with you Russell. Fullmer's chin is not in the category of LaMotta, Chuvalo, Joe Grim, Greb. But probably just a shade below those guys. It was granite but not quite the granite that those aforementioned guys possessed IMO.

Thanks, I was a little worried there'd be a backlash. :think

I don't what the fuck to make of Grim's chin. From reports of his fights he must have been down literally hundreds of times over the course of his career, sometimes over a dozen in a single fight.

But keeping him down was just about impossible. So what does that make him? :think:think

[Sardu]

Thanks, I was a little worried there'd be a backlash. :think

I don't what the fuck to make of Grim's chin. From reports of his fights he must have been down literally hundreds of times over the course of his career, sometimes over a dozen in a single fight.

But keeping him down was just about impossible. So what does that make him? :think:think


Yeah, I should not have included Grim and Chuvalo with elite HOF fighters like Fullmer, LaMotta, Greb. In terms of chins there was also a guy called "the sailor" who weighed about 190lbs. and fought Larry Holmes in 1977. I think his name was Ibar Arrington. THey say he used to love getting hit and would never go down.

[Boxed Ears]

If the Chuvalos and LaMottas are As, it's not okay to make Fullmer a B. If the Chuvalos and Lamottas are 100s, it's fair to make Fullmer a 90 or so. That maybe didn't make any sense but I'm really tired.

[Boxed Ears]

I'm beginning to think his chin may be A- level or therabouts. Certainly no LaMotta when it comes to chin.

Evidence to counter this potential sacrilege? Alright.

In 55' against Gil Turner...

"The only knockdown in this bruising affair occurred in the sixth. Following a combination, Turner landed a left hook that sent Fullmer through the ropes. Fullmer, in a groggy state, took a nine-count." -William J. Briordy, The New York Times"

Against Lausse later that year Fullmer was down in the 8th.

In his series with Robinson (Nearly 40 years old) a man that started his career as a lightweight he was sparked out with a single hook.

Bobby Boyd also knocked down Fullmer.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not saying his chin is garbage, what I am saying is that he was sparked out with a perfectly placed punch, nearly knocked out by a so so hitter in Gil Turner and put on his ass by maybe the hardest pure hitter he faced in Lausse, as well as knocked down by Boyd.

I feel his chin is more then likely a notch below the absolute best to ever grace the sport. No shame, but a bit of a knock against him being affected by much smaller fighters considering what a huge MW he was.

Thoughts?

And you even said A-. I said I was sleepy. :tired

[cotto20]

I have to agree with it not being on the level of the likes of Lamotta, and Hagler. Probaly just a good level below, but a damn right solid set of whiskers.......

[Raging B(_)LL]

I'm beginning to think his chin may be A- level or therabouts. Certainly no LaMotta when it comes to chin.

Evidence to counter this potential sacrilege? Alright.

In 55' against Gil Turner...

"The only knockdown in this bruising affair occurred in the sixth. Following a combination, Turner landed a left hook that sent Fullmer through the ropes. Fullmer, in a groggy state, took a nine-count." -William J. Briordy, The New York Times"

Against Lausse later that year Fullmer was down in the 8th.

In his series with Robinson (Nearly 40 years old) a man that started his career as a lightweight he was sparked out with a single hook.

Bobby Boyd also knocked down Fullmer.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not saying his chin is garbage, what I am saying is that he was sparked out with a perfectly placed punch, nearly knocked out by a so so hitter in Gil Turner and put on his ass by maybe the hardest pure hitter he faced in Lausse, as well as knocked down by Boyd.

I feel his chin is more then likely a notch below the absolute best to ever grace the sport. No shame, but a bit of a knock against him being affected by much smaller fighters considering what a huge MW he was.

Thoughts?

I think Gene`s chin gets rated accordingly, it wasn`t cast iron solid but it was definately one of the better ones the middleweight division has seen imo notwithstanding the one punch stoppage loss to Robinson which was basically a real one in a million shot if there ever was one.

Against Boyd Gene was slightly off balance as he came lunging in and Boyd landed a grazing left hook to the top of his head sending him down for a no count, Fullmer wasn`t hurt at all from the kd itself. And I have to disagree with you on your opinion of Gil Turners punching power, Turner could punch pretty damn hard imo and he must have caught Gene with a punch he didn`t see coming to drop him the way he did.

And Lausse caught Gene on the way in with a perfectly placed left hook on the jaw as he took a quick step back on the on-rushing Fullmer, that punch would have done a lot more damage on a fighter less durable than Gene but Gene not only took the punch relatively well imo but he got back up mighty quickly from that punch too, impressive to say the least considering that he got nailed flush on the way in by one of the hardest hitting middleweights ever.

[mcvey]

I'm beginning to think his chin may be A- level or therabouts. Certainly no LaMotta when it comes to chin.

Evidence to counter this potential sacrilege? Alright.

In 55' against Gil Turner...

"The only knockdown in this bruising affair occurred in the sixth. Following a combination, Turner landed a left hook that sent Fullmer through the ropes. Fullmer, in a groggy state, took a nine-count." -William J. Briordy, The New York Times"

Against Lausse later that year Fullmer was down in the 8th.

In his series with Robinson (Nearly 40 years old) a man that started his career as a lightweight he was sparked out with a single hook.

Bobby Boyd also knocked down Fullmer.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not saying his chin is garbage, what I am saying is that he was sparked out with a perfectly placed punch, nearly knocked out by a so so hitter in Gil Turner and put on his ass by maybe the hardest pure hitter he faced in Lausse, as well as knocked down by Boyd.

I feel his chin is more then likely a notch below the absolute best to ever grace the sport. No shame, but a bit of a knock against him being affected by much smaller fighters considering what a huge MW he was.

Thoughts?

I'd say you have him about right ,very good chin ,but not concrete ,maybe just a step below Maxim's.
Lausse was a terrific hitter ,short and heavily muscled ,huge shoulders , he winged them from the roof tops.

[Russell]

Hmm...

Didn't Florentino Fernandez rock Fullmer pretty badly? I know he Fullmer's arm was fractured in that fight as well.

Fernandez was only a year and a half removed from fighting at welter, regardless of the massive hitter that he was. :think

[Duodenum]

I take Gene at his word that he was never even knocked dizzy until Robby flattened him, even though he'd been dropped. There are some accounts of LaMotta being shaken and staggered during the 1940s, and Jake, like Chuvalo, has always protested that his defensive movements were underrated.

My own suspicion has always been that Gene's chin is underrated, based on the widespread viewing Robby's knockout of him has received. Overlooked in that episode though is the fact that Fullmer was trying to get up, and recovered fairly quickly from the blow. This wasn't Ingo losing the title back to Patterson, Liston out cold at the hands of Martin, or Louis flat on his face after the count against Schmeling. If the bell had saved Gene, he might have been ready to answer the bell for round six.

[WhataRock]

Fernandez was a legit middleweight puncher at that stage regardless Russ...one of the hardest from that era.

Actually probably more of a testement to Gene's chin that despite carrying an injury and clearly getting towards the end of his career he managed to grind out a win.

[My2Sense]

Fernandez was a legit middleweight puncher at that stage regardless Russ...one of the hardest from that era.

Actually probably more of a testement to Gene's chin that despite carrying an injury and clearly getting towards the end of his career he managed to grind out a win.

Agreed.

Fullmer had a definite ATG chin. You could say his chin wasn't quite on the level of LaMotta or Chuvalo - but those guys are arguably the #1 and 2 toughest chinned fighters in history.

[cotto20]

Agreed.

Fullmer had a definite ATG chin. You could say his chin wasn't quite on the level of LaMotta or Chuvalo - but those guys are arguably the #1 and 2 toughest chinned fighters in history.

His chin also wasnt on the level of Hagler, Ali or De La Hoya.

[Russell]

I take Gene at his word that he was never even knocked dizzy until Robby flattened him, even though he'd been dropped. There are some accounts of LaMotta being shaken and staggered during the 1940s, and Jake, like Chuvalo, has always protested that his defensive movements were underrated.

My own suspicion has always been that Gene's chin is underrated, based on the widespread viewing Robby's knockout of him has received. Overlooked in that episode though is the fact that Fullmer was trying to get up, and recovered fairly quickly from the blow. This wasn't Ingo losing the title back to Patterson, Liston out cold at the hands of Martin, or Louis flat on his face after the count against Schmeling. If the bell had saved Gene, he might have been ready to answer the bell for round six.

He took a nine count and barely rose from one of the pre-perfect punch knockdowns. :think

[My2Sense]

His chin also wasnt on the level of Hagler, Ali or De La Hoya.

Why not Ali or DeLaHoya? They both were down a number of times each in their careers.

[red cobra]

I think that even considering the times he was decked, it's ridiculous to question Gene Fullmer's chin.

[Minotauro]

Lausse was a massive puncher comparable to the biggest punches at that weight. I'd but Fullmer's chin on the same level as Eubank and Dick Tiger just below LaMotta at this weight. No doubt Gene has a quality chin and Ray stopping him with a single shot might be the greatest knockout ever largely due to Gene's proven durability. Ray couldn't seem to hurt him bad in any of their other meetings.

[Minotauro]

His chin also wasnt on the level of Hagler, Ali or De La Hoya.

I'd probably put it on the same level as Ali and certainly higher then Oscar's who didn't fight nearly as many punchers and went down from Whitaker.

[Genesis]

Minotauro.

You can't put Gene's chin at Ali's level. Ali was never KO'd. Gene was KO'd by one punch to a 36 year old past prime Robinson, things like that never happened to Ali at Heavyweight and he fought massive punchers.

[Genesis]

Plus Dick Tiger had a better chin than Fullmer. He was only KO'd by one shot by murderous Light-Heavyweight Bob Foster at age 37. He was never Ko'd before.

[red cobra]

Why not Ali or DeLaHoya? They both were down a number of times each in their careers.
This is the first time I've ever heard anyone claim OSCAR DE LA HOYA(!!!!) had a better chin than Gene Fullmer.

[cotto20]

I'd probably put it on the same level as Ali and certainly higher then Oscar's who didn't fight nearly as many punchers and went down from Whitaker.

What? De La Hoya fought bigger punchers than Fullmer. Trinidad, Pac, Mosely, Chavez, Mayorga, Vargas, and Gatti. And was never knocked out by any of them.

De La Hoya's chin was amazing. Even when servely weight drained and weakend, Pac still cound't put him down or KO him.....

[Minotauro]

What? De La Hoya fought bigger punchers than Fullmer. Trinidad, Pac, Mosely, Chavez, Mayorga, Vargas, and Gatti. And was never knocked out by any of them.

De La Hoya's chin was amazing. Even when servely weight drained and weakend, Pac still cound't put him down or KO him.....

Pac and Gatti were far smaller and Chavez was shot. Trinidad and Mosley were big hitters Vargas was on the decline and Mayorga was never anything special. None of those guys beside maybe Tito had raw power like Fernandez or Lausse. Plus style wise Gener took more clean shots then Oscar who barley took a power shot from Felix, that's not Oscar fault of course but when assessing chins its something to look at.

To the above poster while Ali never got KO'd he did get dropped by the likes of Cooper who wasn't a big puncher in comparison to some of the guys Gene fought p4p. Plus Ali never fought a puncher like Ray sure guys like Shavers, Foreman and co might have had the power but not the skill to land such a perfect shot. I think his chin is comparable to Ali and Tiger not to say better just around that level.

[My2Sense]

De La Hoya fought bigger punchers than Fullmer. Trinidad, Pac, Mosely, Chavez, Mayorga, Vargas, and Gatti.

Robinson, Lausse, Fernandez, Tiger, Boyd, Webb, Basilio, and Turner hit as harder or harder than all those names you listed.

[apollack]

Fullmer had a VERY good chin. He was fighting the best in the world over and over again. So he got starched once by a perfectly timed shot by RAY ROBINSON for goodness sakes. But the other fights with Ray he was in his face for 15 rounds and not close to going down.