What if George Foreman had beaten Jimmy Young in 1977?

[Sardu]

Who would he have fought in his next fight? Ali, Norton, Holmes maybe?
How would his legacy have changed? Who would have been the person to beat him in your opinion? Could Ali have beaten Big George in 1977-78? What if Foreman had regained the title from Ali - how long would he have held onto it?

I think based on Foreman's stamina problems at that time I believe that had he beaten Young then perhaps Larry Holmes, who was at the beginning of his brilliant peak in 1978, would have possibly been the man to dethrone Big George in his Hypothetical second title reign. I mean that if Foreman say, got the rematch and defeated Ali then LH probably would have been the perfect style to counteract Foreman's massive strength, aggression, punching power.

Also, if Foreman say, beats both Ali and Holmes and fights Gerry Cooney in 1981 what do you think happens. U guys here are the premier boxing historians anywhere so I am really looking foward to what your answers might be if you choose to reply. thanks.

[Mendoza]

Holmes would have done more damage than Jimmy Young, and IMO would have beaten Foreman as early as 1977. If Foreman had beaten Young, he probably gets a title fight.

[red cobra]

If it could be speculated about George fighting a better fight against Young, then the same thing can be "hypothesized" for Young as well...the heat in San Juan was the same for Young as it was for Foreman...like when Robinson and Maxim fought..the heat that night was the same for Maxim as it was for Sugar. Maybe Young would have been even sharper and woulden't have been tagged like he was in the 7th round. But in keeping with the theme of this thread, if Foreman had won against Young, he would have been the logical challenger for Ali...unless he and Shavers were to have fought an eliminator..then I believe that Foreman would have scored a 3rd round tko over Earnie..THEN setting up a rematch with Ali. I think Gil Clancey would have worked on a new strategy..a smarter one with George pacing himself more and Clancey I sure would have either had George work to improve his stamina, or else he would have quit Foreman's camp in disgust and frustration if that didn't work..the question is..would the younger Foreman have been able to refine his style into what it eventually became after 1987? As for the probable result..well Ali was winding down, and was not the guy he was in '74, and we know how many years Foreman was to have as a fighter..I think that if George could have licked his stamina issue w/Clancey, then the bout may have been a far more challenging one for Ali, and it may have taken every last ounce of gall and guile for Ali to have captured a 15 round decision, maybe with a photo-finish..just speculating in a halfass sort of way..I'm still not sure..

[red cobra]

If Foreman had beaten Young and had Ali either retired or had lost to Foreman in a rematch, then the rising Larry Holmes would have beaten Foreman for the title via a one sided 15 round decision or a 13-14 round tko.

[Stevie G]

Would Foreman have beaten Ali in 1977 ? Logic says that he should have been able to,as Muhammad was not the same fighter as he was in Zaire. Indeed,imo,he had slipped more between 1974 and '77 than he had between 1967 and '74. However,while Ali's body was n't the same as it was in The Rumble,his astute and cunning mind was. I would n't have put it past him to mess Foreman's mind up,and nick a close,probably controversial decision. I'd give that bout 50/50. If George would've won then it would probably have been Larry Holmes to hand him his second loss.

[clark]

I am of the belief that Foreman would have beat Holmes in '77.
Norton would have been easy and so would probably anyone else
except Ali. If Ali would have fought George again, Ali would have been in tip top shape and, despite the first signs of his illness, beat George again.

[kenmore]

If Foreman had beaten Young, then he would have moved directly into a fight with Norton for a portion of the heavyweight title. The 1977 Ali would was nearing retirement, and probably would have ducked both Foreman and Norton at that point.

Foreman would have kayoed Norton in late 1977. In 1978, Holmes would have beaten Foreman for the belt.

[kenmore]

Holmes would have done more damage than Jimmy Young, and IMO would have beaten Foreman as early as 1977. If Foreman had beaten Young, he probably gets a title fight.

I think the 1977 Holmes was still too green to beat Foreman. In my opinion, not until late 1977, when Holmes dominated and kayoed Young Sanford, did he begin to exhibit the form that would lead to his championship years. Prior to this, many of Holmes performances were not quite so polished.

Thus, the late 1977 Holmes might have beaten Foreman, but the early to mid-1977 couldn't have done so in my opinion.

Of course the 1978 Holmes would have beaten Foreman. No question.

[clark]

Foreman beats the Holmes that fought Norton in my opinion.

[Sardu]

If Foreman had dethroned Ali in a rematch in 77' there is a good chance he may have purposely avoided Holmes. Many think that Foreman may have avoided fighting Quarry who is way less risky than Holmes would have been. There is a chance that Holmes would have still met Norton for a vacant portion of the title in june 1978. So if this was indeed the case how would see Foreman faring against the guys he might have fought from 1978 to the early 80's if he had not retired? Appreciate your insights thanks.

Big John Tate
Mike Weaver
Gerrie Coetze
Gerry Cooney
Renaldo Snipes
Tim Witherspoon

Out of these I think a motivated Spoon' could have potentially troubled GF. What do you think?

[anut]

I GOT A HOLMES FIGHT FROM 1977 AGAINST TOM PRATER ON A SHIP......THAT LARRY HOLMES WOULDNT BEAT GEORGE FOREMAN OF 1977......HOLMES DIDNT HAVE THE BELT IN 77 ALI DID.....AND NORTON......FOREMAN WOULDA BEATEN A 35 OR 36 YR OLD ALI....................HIS LEGS WERE SHOT.......12LBS TO HEAVY.......LOOKED GOD AWFUL AGAINST AVANGALISTA.......THAT WAS 1977..........GEORGE FOREMAN WOULDA KNOCKED OUT AN OVER THE HILL MUHAMMAD ALI.....And ken norton woulda gotten knocked out inside 5 rds in rematch..............

[abraq]

Judging by George Foreman's laboured performance against Jimmy Young one can safely assume that even if he had somehow managed to slip past Young he would have surely lost to Ali - even the 1977 version. After that, if he stuck around, he would have been retired by Larry Holmes. End of story. Till he chose to be reborn as a fat old man with a changed style who did marvelously well.

Now don't get me wrong. I prefer to be in the minority who believe that the best Foreman (who knocked out Chuvalo, Frazier, Roman, Norton and fought Ali) would have a very real chance of stopping even a peak Holmes.

[abraq]

If Foreman had dethroned Ali in a rematch in 77' there is a good chance he may have purposely avoided Holmes. Many think that Foreman may have avoided fighting Quarry who is way less risky than Holmes would have been. There is a chance that Holmes would have still met Norton for a vacant portion of the title in june 1978. So if this was indeed the case how would see Foreman faring against the guys he might have fought from 1978 to the early 80's if he had not retired? Appreciate your insights thanks.

Big John Tate
Mike Weaver
Gerrie Coetze
Gerry Cooney
Renaldo Snipes
Tim Witherspoon

Out of these I think a motivated Spoon' could have potentially troubled GF. What do you think?

Big John Tate - Big and not too bad. But mechanical. Could be knocked out
and would be knocked out by Foreman.

Mike Weaver - Built! Competent. But susceptible to a big punch. Would have
been kayoed.

Gerrie Coetzee - Underrated. Quite competent. But still would have lost by
tko.

Gerry Cooney - More or less the same result that actually took place.

Renaldo Snipes - Tricky. But did not have enough to hold Big George off for
the entire duration of the fight.

Tim Witherspoon - As you have rightly pointed out, the best of the lot. If he
came into the fight in shape and motivated, he would have
had a 50/50 chance against this version of Foreman.

[red cobra]

Big John Tate - Big and not too bad. But mechanical. Could be knocked out
and would be knocked out by Foreman.

Mike Weaver - Built! Competent. But susceptible to a big punch. Would have
been kayoed.

Gerrie Coetzee - Underrated. Quite competent. But still would have lost by
tko.

Gerry Cooney - More or less the same result that actually took place.

Renaldo Snipes - Tricky. But did not have enough to hold Big George off for
the entire duration of the fight.

Tim Witherspoon - As you have rightly pointed out, the best of the lot. If he
came into the fight in shape and motivated, he would have
had a 50/50 chance against this version of Foreman.
You have all this down pretty accurately, IMO.:thumbsup

[abraq]

You have all this down pretty accurately, IMO.:thumbsup

Thanks.:D

[Boxed Ears]

Whatever would've happened, I don't think he'd have had a second career or even as high a rating in the ATG lists for HWs.

[apollack]

In my own mind, after watching Foreman - Young, I am of the opinion that Foreman DID beat Jimmy Young. But, if you like lots of grabbing, very little effective punching by Young, lots of ducking, and a ref who penalizes George for pushing Young away when Jimmy grabs incessantly, then I can see why you'd give rounds to Young. Sure he decked George, but late, and after Foreman had thrown lots of punches with big power at him, trying to make it a fight, and had gassed himself.

Anyway, to answer the question, if Foreman had won, he'd beat anyone out there, except Ali and Holmes. Those two would have had his number any day of the week. Too much speed and condition and defense and stamina and guile, etc., Foreman's defense was so-so, and he couldn't get either of them out of there early, and he certainly cannot outbox either to a decision in a 15-rounder.

[Titan1]

George Foreman probably would have beaten anyone with the possible exception of Muhammad Ali, and the exception of Larry Holmes.

[ThinBlack]

Larry Holmes would eventually get to him, probably about mid-1978, for that decision loss.

[mr. magoo]

Virtually impossible to say.... I do think however that the prospects of him retiring regardless are still very high... I don't necessarily think that it was the actual "loss" itself that forced him to leave the game, so much as it was how he was " feeling." Foreman took 15 months off after the zaire defeat, and asside from Ron Lyle, whom he struggled with, was taking on softer foes in general... His head was not in the game against Young, and the drastic decision to totally end his career and become a preacher, gave insite as to where his thoughts were... So a victory might have improved his record, but I'm not convinced that he would have continued beyond that point.

[Phys]

I don't think Holmes could have slipped 15 Rds of George's punches, and GF wins via KO and is HW champ for 15 years or more.