Jack Dempseys stamina

[ChrisPontius]

I think the only fight in which he scored a knockout beyond 8 was against Brennan. Of course that need not indicate bad stamina. Must of the fights he ended by early KO which obviously eliminates the possibilty to prove the ability to score a late knockout.

How would you rank it on a scale of 1 to 5, 1 being Foreman-like, 5 being Marciano/Ali/Frazier/Jeffries-like.

[dmt]

4

You have to realise though that he fought out in the heat which is far more difficult to do so rather then indoor boxing matches, understandebly because of the heat. Watch him against Gibbons, two year layoff, but he was still throwing alot of punches even at the end

[janitor]

He had excelent stamina and workrate over fifteen rounds.

Perhaps some lingering question about whether he caried his power late.

[Bad_Intentions]

4.

he got KO'd once in his only 6 losses, the rest were POINTS and Unanimous Decision.

[JimmyShimmy]

4, possibly higher.

Dempsey trained for the long haul (6-7 miles everyday, sparring and further sprinting), but he usually got business over with quickly.

[McGrain]

Dempsey thew a lot of punches, and to the best of my knowledge continued to throw a lot of punches. I think his inability to KO guys late is more to do with the type of fighter he was than with his stamina.

I'd say 4, as far as elite boxers go.

[Bad_Intentions]

what would you rate him hank?

[Duodenum]

Dempsey booster Damon Runyon called Jack's 15 rounder with Gibbons the fastest heavyweight fight ever fought. Tommy was fading at the end, after over pacing himself through the earlier part of the match. Gibbons peaked later in his career than most boxers, and was in the best shape of his career for the title. Dempsey was coming off a two year layoff. If the Gibbons defense had been scheduled for 20, Tommy may not have finished on his feet, despite Dempsey's inactivity.

Doc Kearns blamed Dempsey's poor performance in the Brennan defense to his violation of the pre-bout celibacy rule, and it's also likely that he took Brennan lightly because of the relatively easy kayo win in their earlier meeting. Still, Dempsey had enough dynamite left to drop the larger Brennan for the count with bodyshots, indicating very solid staying power.

It's helpful to recall how torrid the heat and humidity were when he won the title in Toledo, against a defending champion who demonstrated all-time staying power against Jack Johnson in Havana. In a stifling environment, where it was difficult to get any oxygen, he tore away at a ferocious pace through tha last half of the first round, trying desperately to win Kearns's one round kayo bet, was hustled out of the ring quickly, had to rush back in, and resume boxing without any rest between rounds, and still managed not to be outlasted by the endurance champion of Cuba. Today, most fighters who expend themselves like that, in such a situation and climate, would be done for if they failed to take their opponents out, right then and there.

I'll give Jack a 4. I can't rate him higher, simply because he didn't have any occasion to perform late, beyond Brennan and Gibbons. I think he compares closely to Louis in the stamina department.

[ChrisPontius]

I'll give Jack a 4. I can't rate him higher, simply because he didn't have any occasion to perform late, beyond Brennan and Gibbons. I think he compares closely to Louis in the stamina department.

Do you mean by that that Louis has a bit more stamina, or a bit less?


I think Louis should rank a bit higher than Dempsey in terms of stamina.
It's hard though. You can say that because Dempsey usually went in for the kill early on and moved faster, therefore spending more energy whereas Louis was extremely efficient. Different pacings.

[UpWithEvil]

Doc Kearns blamed Dempsey's poor performance in the Brennan defense to his violation of the pre-bout celibacy rule, and it's also likely that he took Brennan lightly because of the relatively easy kayo win in their earlier meeting.

To his credit, Brennan didn't make any such mistakes and came into the fight in fantastic shape. This fight could easily have been Dempsey's "Buster Douglas moment" if it weren't for Dempsey's durability and stamina. After getting hammered early Dempsey picks up steam in the middle rounds and keeps pushing the pace until his 12th-round KO. I don't see it as a "poor performance" at all. I think we get a better idea of Dempsey's actual skill, athleticism, and tenacity here than in, say, the one-sided destruction of Jess Willard.

[Dempsey1238]

so you got the fight complete than wow.

[Chaney]

In his book, Kings of the Ring, Gavin Evans gives a mean assessment of Dempsey, both inside and outside the ring.

He claims that Dempsey's stamina was poor. He said that in the Willard fight Jack was lucky the bout was stopped when it was, as he was himself on the point of exhaustion.

Thoughts?

[Vantage_West]

4
he he threw alot of shots but from what i see he just doesnt hit as hard later but still has the ability to throw the punches.

this would be a very useful technique to switch form hard shots to soft but point hitting shots later in the bout.

[rekcutnevets]

Your body has fast twitch, and slow twitch, muscle fibers. The description of Dempsey in articles, plus what film we have of him, looks as though he has more fast than slow. Fast fibers give you more speed bursts, but they also burn out quicker. Because he was an explosive puncher, rather than a thudding type, the steam comes off quicker. He looked like he had enough wind to keep fighting, but the umphhh probably burned up after 8.

If you are asking about stamina, and meaning the ability to last, probably an 8 or 10. If you are talking about his punches meaning as much late as they did early, more like a 5.

[McGrain]

In his book, Kings of the Ring, Gavin Evans gives a mean assessment of Dempsey, both inside and outside the ring.

He claims that Dempsey's stamina was poor. He said that in the Willard fight Jack was lucky the bout was stopped when it was, as he was himself on the point of exhaustion.

Thoughts?


I think, having seen the fight, the description of Dempsey as the lucky one in that stoppage is a little odd. What was it? Broken eye socket, broken cheek bone, three broken ribs?

Dempsey looked ok to me as far as it goes, but he basically spent an unprecidented amount of time throwing power punches - possibley still unequaled to this day in fact. Knacker anyone a bit.

[Marciano Frazier]

I agree with the general consensus that he ranks about a four. He tended to slow down a couple notches after the early rounds, but was still dangerous after that and could hold up through 15. He couldn't fight an exceptionally fast pace for a full 15 rounds like a Marciano, but he didn't flounder and become exhausted down the stretch like a Foreman, either.

[C. M. Clay II]

I'd give him a three. His stamina certainly wasn't on the level of Marciano, Louis, Frazier or Ali. He did seem to fade out aftr about 8 rounds, so stamina could be a problem.

[Ramon Rojo]

In his book, Kings of the Ring, Gavin Evans gives a mean assessment of Dempsey, both inside and outside the ring.

He claims that Dempsey's stamina was poor. He said that in the Willard fight Jack was lucky the bout was stopped when it was, as he was himself on the point of exhaustion.

Thoughts?

It´s true. Dempsey punched himself out and if Willard hadn´t been such a pussy and a weakling he could have defeated Dempsey.

Dempsey´s whole fame is based on his beating Willard which doesn´t impress me. No one thinks about how weak his opponents were and that he never fought Wills.

[Jack Dempsey]

In his book, Kings of the Ring, Gavin Evans gives a mean assessment of Dempsey, both inside and outside the ring.

He claims that Dempsey's stamina was poor. He said that in the Willard fight Jack was lucky the bout was stopped when it was, as he was himself on the point of exhaustion.

Thoughts?

He really sticks it to Dempsey in that book:-(

[UpWithEvil]

Dempsey punched himself out and if Willard hadn´t been such a pussy and a weakling he could have defeated Dempsey.

I heard he was gay, too.

[Duodenum]

Do you mean by that that Louis has a bit more stamina, or a bit less?


I think Louis should rank a bit higher than Dempsey in terms of stamina.
It's hard though. You can say that because Dempsey usually went in for the kill early on and moved faster, therefore spending more energy whereas Louis was extremely efficient. Different pacings.This is pretty accurate Chris. I'd give Louis a 4.25-4.50 on stamina, relative to Dempsey. Peak Dempsey never lost a bout due to lack of conditioning. His body attack offset any advantage most of his opponents may have enjoyed in that regard.

Nobody ever took out Willie Meehan in a four round exhibition, but in the second round of their final meeting, Dempsey came closer than anybody else. If their matches were all 10 rounders, Meehan would have boxed differently from the outset, and in any event, would have been eliminated well before ten rounds were up.

During WW I, Dempsey simply didn't face many opponents who might have extended him any distance. The shrewd Kearns steered Jack free of Langford, Jeannette, Wills, McVea, Norfolk, or anybody else who might derail Dempsey's rise through the ranks. In the aftermath of Jack Johnson's incendiary reign, it was probably prudent not to establish a reputation as somebody who would readily cross the color line, simply to secure a HW title opportunity in the first place. Even if Dempsey had fought and kayoed all of the top contenders easily, the majority public wouldn't have countenanced the idea of a HW champion willing to give such challengers an opportunity to follow so closely in Lil Arthur's footsteps. (This was reaffirmed when Dempsey tried to arrange a title defense against the worthy Wills.) Jack was probably pushing the envelope just by employing black sparring mates and cornermen (Tate, Godfrey.)

Gibbons made Dempsey miss frequently, something usually most draining to the boxer who misses, yet Dempsey was wearing Gibbons down towards the end of the bout. He certainly finished strong in the Brennan defense. But Louis was extended by Farr, Godoy, Simon, Conn, and Walcott. The simple fact is that Joe had more occasions to demonstrate his endurance. Jack's opponents usually failed to display theirs. They couldn't last long enough in most instances.

We might have gotten a very good idea of Dempsey's conditioning against Willard, if not for Kearns's reckless bet. Jess was out of shape, so Dempsey would have certainly won the title in Toledo, regardless. But Jack's opening round pace could have been more calculating, much less frenetic than the desperate onslaught he actually produced. He probably would have dispatched Willard in about the same length of time Firpo eventually did in retiring Jess.

All rampant speculation of course. But the top pugilists of that era did tend to be harder and more durable over the long haul, than today's overblown behemoths (whether fat, steroid-inflated, or both, like Toney).