Ice debate/discussion last night with Ken Shamrock...

[IceJohnScully]

I engaged in a pretty interesting hour long phone call/interview/debate/conversation last night with [Only registered and activated users can see links]'s Rich Bergeron (as the mediator) and MMA legend Ken Shamrock. There was a lot to talk about in an hour and I think at the end of the session we had both made some good points on behalf of our sport but one thing he said that really stands out was when he made note of the fact that our best fighter, Floyd Mayweather Jr., "would get crushed in MMA." I mean, come on, that's not something to be bragging about. The best MMA guys could take down a 147 pound guy that has never wrestled, grappled or competed in martial arts in his life.

I said "Well, that's like saying that Michael Jordan couldn't win in MMA, either, because the two sports are as different as basketball is compared to them." I also had the lingering feeling that he was saying this tome in sort of a challenging way. So an MMA champ could beat Floyd... in MMA?

"And don't forget, you could take both yourself and Tito Ortiz and Floyd would whip both of you within a minute of each other while only using one hand." I knew I was right and, to his credit, Ken agreed with me on that point. We certainly disagreed with each other on several other points but at the end of the day I think two things are clear at this point. First is that the best MMA guy will beat the best boxer... at MMA. And the best boxer would demolish the best MMA guy at boxing. Second is that as well as the MMA is doing and as well as it may do in the future I think boxing has a strong tradition that will persevere. We are still the leading fighting sport in terms of name recognition among the masses and we are certainly the leaders in terms of producing the multi-millionaires.

Will that change? You never know but one thing about the whole debate in my mind is this: The MMA is a particularly violent sport with aspects involved other than just the clean punching that makes boxing so popular and, for me anyway, I think the wrestling and grappling parts of it will eventually turn people off. I know it does for me. It's like baseball to me. I find it hard to sit through more than seventy at bats (complete with numerous walks and fouls balls) when I can turn on the news later at night and see all the doubles and home runs in one quick clip on the local news.

We'll see, I guess, right?

[box03]

Boxing is way more exciting for me and I feel the only reason ufc grown the way it has is because the Heavywieght division has no striking figures like a Tyson or Foreman to keep fans interested anymore. When Tyson fought Lewis when I was in highschool everybody was talking about it even the teachers, more big fights like that need to happen and there needs to be more american fighters to keep the average fan interested in the heavywieght division. The other divisions are doing quite well, I just would like to see the heavywieght division be respected again like it used to be.

[IceJohnScully]

Boxing is way more exciting for me and I feel the only reason ufc grown the way it has is because the Heavywieght division has no striking figures like a Tyson or Foreman to keep fans interested anymore. When Tyson fought Lewis when I was in highschool everybody was talking about it even the teachers, more big fights like that need to happen and there needs to be more american fighters to keep the average fan interested in the heavywieght division. The other divisions are doing quite well, I just would like to see the heavywieght division be respected again like it used to be.

I think you are very correct..and to his credit I seem to remember Ken saying something very similar last night

[box03]

I think you are very correct..and to his credit I seem to remember Ken saying something very similar last night Im 22 and most of my friends our around the same age and unfortunately they know more about ufc than boxing, I ask them why and they say its more like a street fight. To be honest I seen one person in my life throw a kick in a street fight and he missed and got slammed on his head, and I never seen anyone get submitted in a street fight. Most street fights start with a punch and end with a punch or slam, so in my opinion thats inaccurate. While I believe boxings do well around the world its starting to lose ground with the under 30 crowd and the weak heavywieght divisions partly to blame for that, I just hope it shapes up before its too late.

[tays001]

I engaged in a pretty interesting hour long phone call/interview/debate/conversation last night with [Only registered and activated users can see links]'s Rich Bergeron (as the mediator) and MMA legend Ken Shamrock. There was a lot to talk about in an hour and I think at the end of the session we had both made some good points on behalf of our sport but one thing he said that really stands out was when he made note of the fact that our best fighter, Floyd Mayweather Jr., "would get crushed in MMA." I mean, come on, that's not something to be bragging about. The best MMA guys could take down a 147 pound guy that has never wrestled, grappled or competed in martial arts in his life.

I said "Well, that's like saying that Michael Jordan couldn't win in MMA, either, because the two sports are as different as basketball is compared to them." I also had the lingering feeling that he was saying this tome in sort of a challenging way. So an MMA champ could beat Floyd... in MMA?

"And don't forget, you could take both yourself and Tito Ortiz and Floyd would whip both of you within a minute of each other while only using one hand." I knew I was right and, to his credit, Ken agreed with me on that point. We certainly disagreed with each other on several other points but at the end of the day I think two things are clear at this point. First is that the best MMA guy will beat the best boxer... at MMA. And the best boxer would demolish the best MMA guy at boxing. Second is that as well as the MMA is doing and as well as it may do in the future I think boxing has a strong tradition that will persevere. We are still the leading fighting sport in terms of name recognition among the masses and we are certainly the leaders in terms of producing the multi-millionaires.

Will that change? You never know but one thing about the whole debate in my mind is this: The MMA is a particularly violent sport with aspects involved other than just the clean punching that makes boxing so popular and, for me anyway, I think the wrestling and grappling parts of it will eventually turn people off. I know it does for me. It's like baseball to me. I find it hard to sit through more than seventy at bats (complete with numerous walks and fouls balls) when I can turn on the news later at night and see all the doubles and home runs in one quick clip on the local news.

We'll see, I guess, right?

nice to see you go out for BOxing

[IceJohnScully]

nice to see you go out for BOxing

U expected otherwise?? :)

[KO byBRIGGS]

The problem is mma is more televised these days, on dishnetwork there is so many different mma leagues:

KOTC
IFL
UFC
WCL
WEC

I know theres more but those are all on regularily and I barely see boxing on tv considering how many MMA shows are on TV. The exposure of UFC with free major events and regular live programing on spike TV is also bringing alot of exposure tot he sport. I agree with the other post I`m 24 and none of my friends can name a boxing champion. It's pathetic how few of the fights can be seen without purchasing ppv and some are not even available.....for example this fight with Holyfield vs Ibrigamov may not even be shown on dish network ppv that is pathetic and bad for the sport.

[rydersonthestorm]

I love boxing and mma but outside the premier fights boxing has become stale and the ufc and other such organisations are bringing good cards with lots of exciting fights to the table, something which boxing for the most part is failing to do. I used to love watching benn,eubank,collins, neary on itv but the more recent shows with people like williams,skelton etc have been pretty poor.

[rydersonthestorm]

Err so anderson silva is not good at striking, boxers are good punchers but that doesn't include half the aspects of striking.

[rydersonthestorm]

also if you want to watch the fight and you aint got hbo watch it on a live stream for free.

[rydersonthestorm]

Yes but in mma you can clinch and use knees and elbows, anderson silva >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cro cop

[rydersonthestorm]

No but it makes him worse than the person who is the best mma striker, cro-cop is past it and hasn't upped his game silva knows how to grapple as well as use is strking skills so silva >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cro cop

[KO byBRIGGS]

also if you want to watch the fight and you aint got hbo watch it on a live stream for free.Still the quality isnt as good, its a pain in the ass and I want to watch it on my big screen with no hassles, boxing needs to push forward into mainstream television more or it will continue to lose ground to MMA which is getting the highest ratings its ever had.

[rydersonthestorm]

I have had streams pretty much as good as live tv most of the time, depends on if you know where to go. Tuf was the big start for ufc, they needed to do a better job with the contender to get the mainstream intrest back into boxing.

[LeadLeftHook]

Its a combination of many things for Boxing, no American HW superstar, lack of exciting fights outside the big events, lack of exposure on regular TV. UFC fights are fun to watch and they do terffic job with making good undercard fights as well.

But Boxing brings the kind of excitement and drama that UFC can never bring.

[codeman99998]

Im 22 and most of my friends our around the same age and unfortunately they know more about ufc than boxing, I ask them why and they say its more like a street fight. To be honest I seen one person in my life throw a kick in a street fight and he missed and got slammed on his head, and I never seen anyone get submitted in a street fight. Most street fights start with a punch and end with a punch or slam, so in my opinion thats inaccurate. While I believe boxings do well around the world its starting to lose ground with the under 30 crowd and the weak heavywieght divisions partly to blame for that, I just hope it shapes up before its too late.

Missed and got slammed on his head? That sounds like something that might happen in a boxing match...

oh wait, that actually sounds more like something that would happen in MMA.

The biggest difference between a street fight and an MMA fight is that there is no referee to break you up from the clinch. Dirty boxing, headlocks, and ground game seem to be very important in a street fight and almost irrelevant in a boxing match (dirty boxing aside, if you are Bernard Hopkins or Ricky Hatton).

The truth is, whenever a street fight ends on the ground with one guy on top of the other pounding him, boxing skills are irrelevant. Being able to get on top of the guy and being able to pound him is more of an MMA thing.

[codeman99998]

anderson silva and cro-cop and a couple of other guys. boxing is a big facet of striking. anyone can tac on a few kicks and punches(that still doesent make them a good striker). most MMA fighters are amateurish strikers at best; there's no argument their.

I WILL ARGUE THAT POINT!!111one

MMA striking is so amazingly different than boxing or kickboxing striking that, to a traditional boxer or kickboxer, it may look completely amateurish.

First off, striking in MMA is not always purely for striking's sake. When Renzo Gracie throws a jab or a low kick, he probably doesn't give a shit if it is weak, or if it's going to hit, or how much damage it will do. He is throwing it simply to put his opponent on the defensive so he can rush into the clinch. In that situation, a wide punch, or a looping punch, or a punch with no snap on it, may be the better tactical choice.

Secondly, some strikes in MMA seem as if they are wildly telegraphed, thrown by a slugger with no boxing skills at all. The very clear reason for this is that MMA defense is DIFFERENT than boxing defense. Bobbing and weaving is great defense in boxing, but TERRIBLE defense in MMA. When you must also be worried about takedowns and kicks, suddenly ducking under a left hook to take a knee to the face doesn't seem like a great proposition. With this lack of head movement in mind, it makes more sense for strikers to throw their punches with bad bad intentions. Sure, Anderson Silva might throw an overhand right that looks terrible to a boxing fan, but when his opponent slips it down and to the elft, just to see a flying knee go right into his face, the punch suddenly has much more merit. On the flip side, if the opponent does not slip the punch, perhaps the punch results in a KO, due to all of the force behind it. The strike has succeeded, but to a boxing fan, it just seems as if the opponent has a terrible defense.

Finally, beautiful punch combinations rarely occur in MMA. It would seem as if the strikers just don't know how to put their punches together. This is also inaccurate. I love to see a good 1-2-3-4-3-2 just as much as anyone, but in an MMA fight, the length of time you must stand directly in front of your opponent to pull this very pretty combination off is far too long for it to be effective. After the first uppercut, the opponent is probably going to clinch you, and if not, drop levels and shoot on you. It is unwise to throw a punch combination of more than about 3 punches in any MMA fight, ESPECIALLY if you want to keep the fight standing, because your opponent will probably clinch you, or worse, take you down for standing in front of him for so long.

It is important to realize that MMA and boxing are two completely different sports, and as such, they require very different sorts of striking. Many skills a boxer has, going to the body, ducking and weaving, pecking away behind a jab all fight to set up beautiful 5-7 punch combinations, just don't usually work in an MMA fight.

[bigeddie27]

Im 22 and most of my friends our around the same age and unfortunately they know more about ufc than boxing, I ask them why and they say its more like a street fight. To be honest I seen one person in my life throw a kick in a street fight and he missed and got slammed on his head, and I never seen anyone get submitted in a street fight. Most street fights start with a punch and end with a punch or slam, so in my opinion thats inaccurate. While I believe boxings do well around the world its starting to lose ground with the under 30 crowd and the weak heavywieght divisions partly to blame for that, I just hope it shapes up before its too late.

boxing and mma are nothing like a street fight. Because in a street fight if someone grabs you, you can poke their eyes out, grab their balls, bite them, take out a knife, etc... I might not want to grapple someone in a street fight. Most of the street fights ive been have been me throwing a punch when they didnt see one coming and knocking them the fuck out. the other ones were one of my boys getting swooped, and me and the boys crashing someone picnic 10 v 1. I have also had my share of it being me vs 2 or me vs 3. not fun, but I still got the first shot off. if mma or ufc guys say that thier sport is more like real fighting, they dont know what the fuck they are talking about. street fights have no rules boxing and mma do. as for the sports, I really like mma. I think over time it will develop more to a boxing like fight, beczasue for some reason i dont see any of those guys going for the body. And if a grappler tries to grab you, thats a free body shot right there. Whoever can perfect that will own that sport.

[rendog67]

i enjoy the boxing part of mma but dont like the fact they roll about on top of each other, so there is no way i would ever rank mma higher. Well done for sticking up for the sport ice.