UFC signs NCAA champ Phil Davis

[LB3000]

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[boxingcar]

Good. some new interesting matchups in the lhw division

[Nosbor]

Meh! Another predictable wrestler who Rogan will call World class, when in truth the wrestler in question will be far from elite level/World class. YAWN...SNORE....

[Polymath]

Meh! Another predictable wrestler who Rogan will call World class, when in truth the wrestler in question will be far from elite level/World class. YAWN...SNORE....

Well hes definitely world class in his style, whether he would be in an international style is another thing.

[Nosbor]

Well hes definitely world class in his style, whether he would be in an international style is another thing.

No disrespect but NCAA's is light years away from top International competition. In addition American wrestlers are not having much success at the International level. Two bronze medals at the most recent World Championships. Taking home a team ranking of like #15!

Nothing personal against Phil Davis but he is not, nor will he have ever been a Worldclass wrestler but Zuffa will tell everyone otherwise.

[Polymath]

Is that you Wentz...

[Nosbor]

Is that you Wentz...

:lol::lol::lol: Wentz is liberal trash. But he is not altogether incorrect regarding his feelings toward ZUFFA!

[(PimpThaSystem)]

No disrespect but NCAA's is light years away from top International competition. In addition American wrestlers are not having much success at the International level. Two bronze medals at the most recent World Championships. Taking home a team ranking of like #15!

Nothing personal against Phil Davis but he is not, nor will he have ever been a Worldclass wrestler but Zuffa will tell everyone otherwise.

American wrestlers struggle at the international level because while the rest of the world is doing freestyle and greco-roman, our high schools and colleges wrestle folkstyle. Our best folk style NCAA wrestlers don't even go to the Olympics much of the time and if they do they're at a stylistic disadvantage.

[Spunik]

You have to be quite extraordinary wrestling folkstyle basically your whole life and then do freestyle and win a gold/world championship @ freestyle.....Cael Sanderson, Henry Cejudo Olympic Golds....... two recent bad asses.....Stephen Neal was another in '99 (world championship).... yep it's been slim pickins....with that being said....flip the script and make the Olympics Folkstyle and the US gets A LOT more hardware.....

[Nosbor]

Oh God:patsch Here comes the America Uber alis(sp) crowd. Yeah sure; There is always some reason why Americans are not the best.:-(

Hey, I got it! The reason Americans do not dominate International wrestling is because all the best wrestlers are in the NFL and NBA:lol::lol::lol:

Spin doctoring tools!

[Beebs]

Oh God:patsch Here comes the America Uber alis(sp) crowd. Yeah sure; There is always some reason why Americans are not the best.:-(

Hey, I got it! The reason Americans do not dominate International wrestling is because all the best wrestlers are in the NFL and NBA:lol::lol::lol:

Spin doctoring tools!

He did win a Junior national championship in Greco. He probably would have "world class" wrestling in the "world" of MMA.

The folkstyle rules really do put US wrestlers a step behind for international rules competitions. It would be like training in Sambo and then entering the olympics in Judo.

Ironically, one or two of the best Olympic quality wrestlers with experience in several top level international competitions do play in the NFL, one signed for the Jets as an offensive lineman a few years ago.

The whole "oh our best boxers and wrestlers are playing football and basketball instead of fighting is a bunch of shit though.

[(PimpThaSystem)]

Oh God:patsch Here comes the America Uber alis(sp) crowd. Yeah sure; There is always some reason why Americans are not the best.:-(

Hey, I got it! The reason Americans do not dominate International wrestling is because all the best wrestlers are in the NFL and NBA:lol::lol::lol:

Spin doctoring tools!

Its not an excuse, its what really happens. Either you underestimate the differences between folkstyle and the olympic styles or you are just plain retarded. I'm leaning towards the latter.

Some of Americas best wrestlers are in the NFL in fact. Stephen Neal of the Patriots is a 2x NCAA champion and a World champion at heavyweight. He also beat Brock Lesnar in the 1999 NCAA finals.

[Nosbor]

Its not an excuse, its what really happens. Either you underestimate the differences between folkstyle and the olympic styles or you are just plain retarded. I'm leaning towards the latter.

Some of Americas best wrestlers are in the NFL in fact. Stephen Neal of the Patriots is a 2x NCAA champion and a World champion at heavyweight. He also beat Brock Lesnar in the 1999 NCAA finals.

Your post is even more stupid than your screen-name G!:lol::lol::lol:

Pimpdasystem would have made you seem even more gangsta and intimidating. :patsch

I know all about Stephen Neal and that he beat Brock Lesnar. I think it was 3-2 in a fairly dominant fashion despite the close score. Neal was not able to get past Kerry McCoy to represent the U.S. National squad in furthur International competitions. And McCoy the U.S. best heavyweight was never able to defeat anyone from Russia, Uzbekistan or Kazakhstan in International competition.

In fact; The only time he earned a medal was a silver in the 2003 World Championships held in NYC. McCoy was given a gift draw right into the finals before failing once again against the great Artur Taymazov. The same World Championships where Sajid Sajidov easily defeated Cael Sanderson.

Perhaps McCoy should have stuck with football. Stephen Neal chose NFL when Wrestling passed him by.

[(PimpThaSystem)]

Your post is even more stupid than your screen-name G!:lol::lol::lol:

Pimpdasystem would have made you seem even more gangsta and intimidating. :patsch

I know all about Stephen Neal and that he beat Brock Lesnar. I think it was 3-2 in a fairly dominant fashion despite the close score. Neal was not able to get past Kerry McCoy to represent the U.S. National squad in furthur International competitions. And McCoy the U.S. best heavyweight was never able to defeat anyone from Russia, Uzbekistan or Kazakhstan in International competition.

In fact; The only time he earned a medal was a silver in the 2003 World Championships held in NYC. McCoy was given a gift draw right into the finals before failing once again against the great Artur Taymazov. The same World Championships where Sajid Sajidov easily defeated Cael Sanderson.

Perhaps McCoy should have stuck with football. Stephen Neal chose NFL when Wrestling passed him by.

Before you looked all this up on wikipedia you should have at least looked up the differences between folk style and the olympic styles first. If they introduced folkstyle into the olympics, you dont think we'd have a shit load of more medalists next time around? Any attempt to analyize America's performance in international wrestling without taking into account the different styles of wrestling fails miserabily. Just like you.

WTF is your point anyway, telling me all these things I already know. You can't completely tell how good a wrestler is from looking at match scores, just like you can't really tell how good a fighter is from looking at boxrec. You collected all these facts but your too stupid to see the big picture.

What does International wrestling credentials have to do with MMA anyway? The best wrestler in UFC is GSP and we know about his nonexistent wrestling credentials.

And then you have the audacity to talk shit about my sn when yours is Nosbor? Nosbor? What are you a keibler elf??? Get back to making cookies cause MMA aint your thing.

[Nosbor]

Before you looked all this up on wikipedia you should have at least looked up the differences between folk style and the olympic styles first. If they introduced folkstyle into the olympics, you dont think we'd have a shit load of more medalists next time around? Any attempt to analyize America's performance in international wrestling without taking into account the different styles of wrestling fails miserabily. Just like you.

WTF is your point anyway, telling me all these things I already know. You can't completely tell how good a wrestler is from looking at match scores, just like you can't really tell how good a fighter is from looking at boxrec. You collected all these facts but your too stupid to see the big picture.

What does International wrestling credentials have to do with MMA anyway? The best wrestler in UFC is GSP and we know about his nonexistent wrestling credentials.

And then you have the audacity to talk shit about my sn when yours is Nosbor? Nosbor? What are you a keibler elf??? Get back to making cookies cause MMA aint your thing.

Good Lord you are obtuse! International wrestling credentials have everything to do with MMA, particularly when frauds such as Koscheck, Lesnar, Hughes, Trigg, Henderson et al; Are being represented as "World Class", when in fact they are not even the best wrestlers in a country that ranks from 11-15 as a team on the World stage over the past decade.

You are of course correct that wrestling in MMA has different applications and assesment standards,. However, I am not disputing that. I just do not want to have my intelligence insulted (primarily by Rogan/ZUFFA) when wrestlers that enter MMA are passed of as far more than what they are/were.

Linland is probably the exception with his Olympic silver. However he did not even earn his spot on the squad. In fact he sued the U.S. Wrestling governing body pver some technicality to gain his spot. Then he was defeated handily by Murad Khardanov of Russia in the Gold medal match.

Expect to hear the same about Daniel Cormier. He does have International experience, unfortuantely he has never won anything of consequence but they will attempt to pass him of as some sort of Wrestling God.

I know, none of this matters because the World at large should adopt U.S. folkstyle as the true World standard. :patsch

Jingoistic rubbish at it's finest!!!

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

No disrespect but NCAA's is light years away from top International competition. In addition American wrestlers are not having much success at the International level. Two bronze medals at the most recent World Championships. Taking home a team ranking of like #15!

Nothing personal against Phil Davis but he is not, nor will he have ever been a Worldclass wrestler but Zuffa will tell everyone otherwise.
Do you realize how the small the gap normally is between a guy who is 1st or 2nd in the world and a guy who is 10th or even 20th? VERY SMALL. So small that it really makes no difference when this guy is going into MMA against guys who (obviously other than other top wrestlers) aren't anywhere near that caliber. There are plenty of times that a World Champ will lose to a guy who isn't even ranked... or that a guy will win his way through to a world title by winning every match by 1 or 2 points. Those guys are all World Class. Also, you have to realize that NCAA is Folkstyle (Collegiate) wrestling.... and World Competitions are in Freestyle or Greco-Roman. It isn't always an easy transition. Most Top wrestlers are going into other career paths and don't have the time to devote their lives into training all day every day into Freestyle or Greco... so just because they don't do it... doesn't mean that they aren't world Class talent. It simply means that they are following their other career path... or in this case... going into MMA.

[Beebs]

Henderson is a multiple time olympian, that is world class; you don't have to win the gold medal to be world class. Joe ****** is world class. Trigg did do a lot of international tournaments.

Lindland didn't get his spot on a technicality, he thought the guy who beat him used an leg technique, the court agreed, Lindland won the rematch. Head to head Henderson did pretty well against Lindland, so it's hard to argue that one is world class and the other isn't.

[Nosbor]

Do you realize how the small the gap normally is between a guy who is 1st or 2nd in the world and a guy who is 10th or even 20th? VERY SMALL. So small that it really makes no difference when this guy is going into MMA against guys who (obviously other than other top wrestlers) aren't anywhere near that caliber. There are plenty of times that a World Champ will lose to a guy who isn't even ranked... or that a guy will win his way through to a world title by winning every match by 1 or 2 points. Those guys are all World Class. Also, you have to realize that NCAA is Folkstyle (Collegiate) wrestling.... and World Competitions are in Freestyle or Greco-Roman. It isn't always an easy transition. Most Top wrestlers are going into other career paths and don't have the time to devote their lives into training all day every day into Freestyle or Greco... so just because they don't do it... doesn't mean that they aren't world Class talent. It simply means that they are following their other career path... or in this case... going into MMA.

Everything you have written has elements of truth. It also means much more because you were a serious and from what I gather relatively successfull folkstyler. However the crux of your arguements really stinks of sour grapes.

1) There is far more than a 1-2 point difference between the #1 and #10 ranked wrestlers in a given weightclass. Let alone a #1 Internationally ranked wrestler and some guy who could not even make the U.S. traveling squad. Which is the case I am making in this thread.

2) So if International style was American folkstyle, then Josh Koscheck would have went to the Olymics and defeated Bouvasia Satiev.:lol:

Please spare me the tiresome and inevitable Brandon Slay reference.

3) According to you American folkstylers take other career paths rather than take on the rigors of day in and day out training in FREESTYLE and GRECO-ROMAN. So that explains why the U.S. is performing so poorly on the International scene.


Americans are pound for pound #1 excuse makers. UNDISPUTED!

[Nosbor]

Henderson is a multiple time olympian, that is world class; you don't have to win the gold medal to be world class. Joe ****** is world class. Trigg did do a lot of international tournaments.

Lindland didn't get his spot on a technicality, he thought the guy who beat him used an leg technique, the court agreed, Lindland won the rematch. Head to head Henderson did pretty well against Lindland, so it's hard to argue that one is world class and the other isn't.

Henderson was a bad example but when he competed the U.S. had stronger teams.

I never implied that only medalists should be considered elite. However, contrary to what many of you are taking from my posts, there is a large gap between a wrestler who consistantly medals in International competitions and one who may not even be top five in his own Nation.

Again: Linland competed when the U.S. has stronger teams and did earn his spot on the Olympic team by challenging a technicality, just as I suggested.

[Spunik]

Bottom line.....
MMA fighters with strong base in folkstyle wrestling much more sucessful than fighters purely trained in freestyle wrestling................

[dublynflya]

Is that you Wentz...

:lol:

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

I never implied that only medalists should be considered elite. However, contrary to what many of you are taking from my posts, there is a large gap between a wrestler who consistantly medals in International competitions and one who may not even be top five in his own Nation.


You aren't putting this in the right frame of mind. A big difference to the top notch wrestlers is one thing... the point is that it is basically NO difference when putting either of the two examples against a guy who is relatively green at wrestling. I think that you are underestimating exactly how great at wrestling you have to be in order to be an NCAA Champion. Take Tommy Rowlands for example. The man is an absolute BEAST and definitely a world Class wrestler... yet falls short in his bid for the Olympic team.

[Nosbor]

You aren't putting this in the right frame of mind. A big difference to the top notch wrestlers is one thing... the point is that it is basically NO difference when putting either of the two examples against a guy who is relatively green at wrestling. I think that you are underestimating exactly how great at wrestling you have to be in order to be an NCAA Champion. Take Tommy Rowlands for example. The man is an absolute BEAST and definitely a world Class wrestler... yet falls short in his bid for the Olympic team.

I understand your point(s) and do comprehend how good one must be inorder to become an NCAA champion. Rowlands is a prime example. Sure he is a beast, as you suggested. However, I have seen him look more like a perfunctory, throw dummy against guys such as Taymazov.

[Nosbor]

Bottom line.....
MMA fighters with strong base in folkstyle wrestling much more sucessful than fighters purely trained in freestyle wrestling................

Yeah!!! Because so many Olympic champion freestyle and Greco practitioners go into MMA....:patsch

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

I understand your point(s) and do comprehend how good one must be inorder to become an NCAA champion. Rowlands is a prime example. Sure he is a beast, as you suggested. However, I have seen him look more like a perfunctory, throw dummy against guys such as Taymazov.
A great example of my point as well though. Tommy Rowlands is a very good freestyle wrestler... but will NEVER be as great in Freestyle as he is in Folkstyle. Tommy's biggest strength is his speed, and agility for his big size on his takedown shots. All of that changes in freestyle as you must know. You have to give up on a takedown much quicker, and you can't always commit on penetrating through due to the danger of being scored upon under freestyle rules. Also, escaping becomes much different under freestyle as well, due to the fact that you have to belly down and flatten out on bottom. I think that Folkstyle is a much more practical fighting base than freestyle is. However, I think that Greco is a very good fighting base too.

[Nosbor]

A great example of my point as well though. Tommy Rowlands is a very good freestyle wrestler... but will NEVER be as great in Freestyle as he is in Folkstyle. Tommy's biggest strength is his speed, and agility for his big size on his takedown shots. All of that changes in freestyle as you must know. You have to give up on a takedown much quicker, and you can't always commit on penetrating through due to the danger of being scored upon under freestyle rules. Also, escaping becomes much different under freestyle as well, due to the fact that you have to belly down and flatten out on bottom. I think that Folkstyle is a much more practical fighting base than freestyle is. However, I think that Greco is a very good fighting base too.

Fair enough!:good

[Spunik]

Yeah!!! Because so many Olympic champion freestyle and Greco practitioners go into MMA....:patsch


Folkstyle emphasizes controlling one's opponent once the match goes to the mat (riding points are awarded in collegiate wrestling) far more so than freestyle or greco....Controlling one's opponent is a great skill to have in MMA...:yep You don't agree with these points?

And do you really think the US wouldn't be a lot stronger in olympic wrestling if they subbed folkstyle for freestyle?