BBC's updated P4P list

[ishy]

1. Pac
2. Floyd
3. Hopkins
4. Shane
5. JMM
6. Cotto
7. Williams
8. Izzy
9. Dawson
10. JuanMa

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Thoughts?

I think Izzy shouldn't be top 10. Hasn't had a meaningful fight since April (?) last year. JuanMa isn't top 10 yet as well IMO. Otherwise I think it's a decent effort.

[Will]

I couldn't really be less of a fan but I would say Wladimir Klitchko deserves top ten. (most probably 10).

[Mazallan]

Danny Williams at 7?

[TFFP]

Juanma is a diabolical choice. Talk about believing the hype. He might be the best thing since sliced bread but lets wait for him to do something first. His last performance indicated he still has some way to go.

[Beeston Brawler]

1. Pac
2. Floyd
3. Hopkins
4. Shane
5. JMM
6. Cotto
7. Williams
8. Izzy
9. Dawson
10. JuanMa

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Thoughts?

I think Izzy shouldn't be top 10. Hasn't had a meaningful fight since April (?) last year. JuanMa isn't top 19 yet as well IMO. Otherwise I think it's a decent effort.

Not a bad effort..... Cotto is a bit high IMO, none of the bottom three would be in my top 10 to be honest.

It's better than the British top 10 though!

[HeavyT]

Danny Williams at 7?
:patsch I think you'll find that isn't danny :lol:

[Henke67]

It wasn't as bad as I expected it to be.

Izzy shouldn't be in there any more. In his last fight he really struggled against nondescript opposition - I think Rafa has a better case to be top 10 (although he wouldn't be in mine either).

I didn't have JuanMa top 10 before his last struggle - he wouldn't be in my top 15.

I'd replace them with Donaire and maybe Calderon.

[dan-b]

Darchinyan deserves to be in there over JuanMa, despite losing to Agbeko.

[Flea Man]

JuanMa and Dawson ain't done enough yet

[Flea Man]

Darchinyan deserves to be in there over JuanMa, despite losing to Agbeko.

Agreed. Hasegawa is due a mention IMO

[Lee Mc]

No Calderon? Very bizzzare...

Also, Juanma? I'd certainly take him out and put in Gamboa who, in my opinion, will be the best in 2 years time.

[Beeston Brawler]

British list......

1. Haye
2. Froch
3. Hatton
4. Khan
5. Brook
6. Mitchell
7. Murray
8. Witter
9. Cleverly
10. Munroe

:-(

Just awful :lol:

Should be more like......

1. Froch
2. Haye
3. Khan
4. Hatton (assuming he fights again - otherwise move everyone up one)
5. Rhodes
6. Macklin
7. Munroe
8. Mitchell
9. Brook
10. Cleverly

[ishy]

JuanMa and Dawson ain't done enough yet

Adamek, Tarver x2 and Johnson x2 is pretty decent. Could certainly merit a top 10 place in this era.

[Lee Mc]

Adamek, Tarver x2 and Johnson x2 is pretty decent. Could certainly merit a top 10 place in this era.

Dawson is worthy of his place in my opinion. As you say, he has beaten some top guys.

[Jordan]

BBC have not got a fucking scooby, diabolical list. Valero before Lopez anyday, and as for Dawson? jesus christ. can someone explain to me which fundamental part of a P4P fighter he has exhibited this year please?

[TFFP]

Umm, Dawson is more than worthy for what he's done in the past few years. Far more so than Gamboa, Lopez or Valero.

[Flea Man]

Adamek, Tarver x2 and Johnson x2 is pretty decent. Could certainly merit a top 10 place in this era.

Fair point.

[Flea Man]

Umm, Dawson is more than worthy for what he's done in the past few years. Far more so than Gamboa, Lopez or Valero.


True dat.

[TFFP]

I've said this many times but if anybody can seriously think of 10 more deserving names than Dawson I'll eat my hat right now. Especially now he's cleared up the Glen Johnson thing that was tarnishing him in some peoples eyes. JohnsonX2 Tarver X2 and Adamek. There are not 10 better records than that of active fighters even though Tarver especially is well past it. The Gamboa's, Valero's and Lopez's of this world have not beaten any top top names and neither has Hasegawa as much as I like him. Donaire has more of a shout since he beat Darchinyan but one swallow does not make a summer, he could do with fighting some better competition.

[Lee Mc]

I've said this many times but if anybody can seriously think of 10 more deserving names than Dawson I'll eat my hat right now. Especially now he's cleared up the Glen Johnson thing that was tarnishing him in some peoples eyes. JohnsonX2 Tarver X2 and Adamek. There are not 10 better records than that of active fighters even though Tarver especially is well past it. The Gamboa's, Valero's and Lopez's of this world have not beaten any top top names and neither has Hasegawa as much as I like him. Donaire has more of a shout since he beat Darchinyan but one swallow does not make a summer, he could do with fighting some better competition.

With the right girl it would make mine :D

[Flea Man]

I still think Vic Darchinyan above Dawson AND Donaire;

[Jordan]

Johnson and Tarver twice? Seriously?

[TFFP]

Yes Johnson and Tarver twice. They are proven commodities. State the case for Valero why don't you...

[China_hand_Joe]

1. Pac
2. Floyd
3. Hopkins (too high)
4. Shane (too high)
5. JMM (too high)
6. Cotto
7. Williams
8. Izzy (lol!)
9. Dawson
10. JuanMa

.
Horrible list.

[LHL]

Don't really see Bradley in enough P4P lists compared to the amount of times you see Juanma or Calderon or even Hasegawa. The original list wouldn't be far off mine probably swap Cotto & Williams, Izzy out Wald in, Juanma out and bradley in.

Might even drop Hopkins out he has been off the main scene that long.

[djoc175]

Not all that horrific.I've seen worse lists on boxrec

I think Paul Williams is high tbh,aswell as Izzy.Sack off JuanMa.You could put forward a strong case for Wladimir Klitschko and Vitali is worth considering(perhaps not top 10 though)

[ishy]

Don't really see Bradley in enough P4P lists compared to the amount of times you see Juanma or Calderon or even Hasegawa. The original list wouldn't be far off mine probably swap Cotto & Williams, Izzy out Wald in, Juanma out and bradley in.

Good shout mate. I think Bradley deserves consideration now, his recent form has been great.

At least no one is advocating Caballero's inclusion :lol:. Still have no idea why the Ring have him in their list.

[djoc175]

Also,surely inactivity starts to work against Bernard and Shane?

Valero might crack a top 50-at which point such lists become pointless

[LHL]

Good shout mate. I think Bradley deserves consideration now, his recent form has been great.

At least no one is advocating Caballero's inclusion :lol:. Still have no idea why the Ring have him in their list.

Yeah i remember he had his name throwing around but for me he is near enough the same as JuanMa who keeps getting a mention. JuanMa has De Leon & Penolosa and Mtagwa not 3 top names by any means. Caballero has De Leon & Molitor. There next fights will probably separate them with Juanma taking on Luevano who is probably the 2nd most credible fighter at featherweight. Caballero will probably get an easier task.

[El Cepillo]

1. Pac
2. Floyd
3. Hopkins
4. Shane
5. JMM
6. Cotto
7. Williams
8. Izzy
9. Dawson
10. JuanMa

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Thoughts?

I think Izzy shouldn't be top 10. Hasn't had a meaningful fight since April (?) last year. JuanMa isn't top 10 yet as well IMO. Otherwise I think it's a decent effort.

Lopez nearly got knocked out in his last fight against a determined nobody, and as others have said, Izzy's inactivty and level of shotness probably mean he isn't top ten material anymore. I like the rest of the list, Top 6 is the same as mine.

[TFFP]

1. Pacquiao
2. Mayweather
3. Marquez
4. Hopkins
5. Mosley
6. Williams
7. Wlad Klitschko
8. Dawson
9. Bradley
10. Haye

I'd probably go for something like. 6 downwards are kinda hard to seperate but you get the idea. I've changed mine up from the usual formula of including Calderon because he just hasn't been looking impressive. I see no logical reason to drop Marquez down when he lost at 147 with zero chance to grow into the weight when previously he was flying...why penalize him for that?

Other considerations were Donaire who was very close but he just has the one win that is really impressive and Hasegawa who I'm afraid hasn't fought the best yet. Cotto had to go because he looks spent after 6 rounds, thats not what a p4p fighter should be.

[Flea Man]

1. Pacquiao
2. Mayweather
3. Marquez
4. Hopkins
5. Mosley
6. Williams
7. Wlad Klitschko
8. Dawson
9. Bradley
10. Haye

I'd probably go for something like. 6 downwards are kinda hard to seperate but you get the idea. I've changed mine up from the usual formula of including Calderon because he just hasn't been looking impressive. I see no logical reason to drop Marquez down when he lost at 147 with zero chance to grow into the weight when previously he was flying...why penalize him for that?

Other considerations were Donaire who was very close but he just has the one win that is really impressive and Hasegawa who I'm afraid hasn't fought the best yet. Cotto had to go because he looks spent after 6 rounds, thats not what a p4p fighter should be.
I'd keep Calderon on the basis that the matey who gave him problems went on to batter Sosa and win the WBC.

Good list though, good to see BRadleys consistency garnering him kudos:good

[ishy]

Haye at 10? :think

[TFFP]

I'd keep Calderon on the basis that the matey who gave him problems went on to batter Sosa and win the WBC.

Good list though, good to see BRadleys consistency garnering him kudos:good
Bradley more than deserves it for his wins over Witter, Holt, Campbell and Petersen. Thats good going.

Calderon has looked a bit scrappy in a few outings for my liking. Seems a little past it to me but I'd have no arguments with him unlike Lopez/Gamboa/Valero which are criminal choices.

So why is it Marquez has been dropped down the rankings at all? Can somebody explain that logic to me? So when he was knocking out Diaz and Casamayor for the first time at lightweight as well as the close fights with Pac he deservedly gets recognition, at this point he's good enough to be #3, then he takes a fight 2 weight divisions up against a guy above him in the rankings and loses against a 1/4 favourite and that means he drops down? What was supposed to happen happened, that shit is dumb. Did Marquez suddenly get worse in the last few months? :huh

[GazOC]

Gamboa...not yet
Valero....are you joking?

[Primadonna Kool]

JMM is should not be above Mosley, Hopkins, Williams, and even Dawson...

JMM is shit at 140 and above..

[TFFP]

Haye at 10? :think
It is a questionable choice, a few others are in contention with him that I mentioned and I wouldn't argue with anybody that prefers them. I just went for Haye because Cruiser > Heavy titles is quite a rare and decent achievement. I don't think any of the others have wins that put them well ahead of Haye so I'm happy to go for him based on that.

[Carnage]

Bradley more than deserves it for his wins over Witter, Holt, Campbell and Petersen. Thats good going.

Calderon has looked a bit scrappy in a few outings for my liking. Seems a little past it to me but I'd have no arguments with him unlike Lopez/Gamboa/Valero which are criminal choices.

So why is it Marquez has been dropped down the rankings at all? Can somebody explain that logic to me? So when he was knocking out Diaz and Casamayor for the first time at lightweight as well as the close fights with Pac he deservedly gets recognition, at this point he's good enough to be #3, then he takes a fight 2 weight divisions up against a guy above him in the rankings and loses against a 1/4 favourite and that means he drops down? What was supposed to happen happened, that shit is dumb. Did Marquez suddenly get worse in the last few months? :huh
Don't agree with Bradley being higher then Calderon, even Lopez and Gomboa higher than him, not just yet! Holt/Witter/Peterson are all mediocre opponents. Haye shouldn't be ther just yet, beating one the Klits will put him right in the thick of it though.

The Marquez point is spot on, he should only have moved a place down for losing to Mayweather, surely his triumphs against Diaz and Casamayor were legendary!

[TFFP]

JMM is should not be above Mosley, Hopkins, Williams, and even Dawson...

JMM is shit at 140 and above..
He's never fought at 140lbs so how do you know that? Genius, he's a natural lightweight at ths stage of his career. Mosley is probably a shit middleweight too.

[Flea Man]

It is a questionable choice, a few others are in contention with him that I mentioned and I wouldn't argue with anybody that prefers them. I just went for Haye because Cruiser > Heavy titles is quite a rare and decent achievement. I don't think any of the others have wins that put them well ahead of Haye so I'm happy to go for him based on that.

Perfectlly decent reasoning; I agree :good

[TFFP]

Don't agree with Bradley being higher then Calderon, even Lopez and Gomboa higher than him, not just yet! Holt/Witter/Peterson are all mediocre opponents. Haye shouldn't be ther just yet, beating one the Klits will put him right in the thick of it though.

The Marquez point is spot on, he should only have moved a place down for losing to Mayweather, surely his triumphs against Diaz and Casamayor were legendary!
Gamboa and Lopez above Bradley? :lol: No, seriously. All of the opponents I mentioned that you claim are mediocre are better than anybody on Gamboa/Lopez's combined records. Go figure.

[Carnage]

Gamboa and Lopez above Bradley? :lol: No, seriously. All of the opponents I mentioned that you claim are mediocre are better than anybody on Gamboa/Lopez's combined records. Go figure.
Nope not Gomboa/Lopez above Bradley, I'm talking about Calderon, I would have him higher than them 3. Beating Campbell would have done him good in the 'p4p rankings' but he didn't.

[Jordan]

Valero is a 2 weight world champion, 26 KO's from 26? Not talking about mickey mouse IBO belts either.

[TFFP]

He did in my eyes. He was dominating every second of that fight and Campbell got a cut and looked for the way out he didn't even show that warrior heart to WANT to fight on because he would rather get out with a NC. Bradley has beat 3 world champs, thats more than enough to make the list for me.

You could be right about Calderon, I'm just going with my own hunch he's past it based on his last 3 or 4 outings. He's gonna get beat then everybody will throw him off the list in a reactionary knee-jerk manner. Having evaluated his form I'm getting rid of him now considering this hasn't even been against top grade opponents. If he proves me wrong and beats a better opponent impressively I'll reintroduce him.

[Carnage]

Valero is a 2 weight world champion, 26 KO's from 26? Not talking about mickey mouse IBO belts either.
Look at the quality of opponents, Haye would be higher than him, even put Froch higher than him!!!:yep

[ishy]

Who has Calderon beaten apart from Mayol recently? I think with Calderon people assume he's underrated and therefore overrate him (does that make sense? :D). I sense a similar thing happening with Hasegawa.

[LHL]

Really Calderon hasn't fought most of the top contenders in super fly, Bradley has taken out a small amount of his but light welter is a deep division. Campbell imo is 2nd to his Holt win. Also i was very very impressed how he was putting a beat down on campbell so easily couldn't see the fight ending any other way.

Haye is a good choice for 10th seeing as most other people at 10 haven't got the record or the achievements haye does.

[ishy]

Valero is a 2 weight world champion, 26 KO's from 26? Not talking about mickey mouse IBO belts either.

These days belts are meaningless, even the supposed 'superior' ones. It's who you beat that counts.

[Flea Man]

Who has Calderon beaten apart from Mayol recently? I think with Calderon people assume he's underrated and therefore overrate him (does that make sense? :D). I sense a similar thing happening with Hasegawa.

Well, considering he's tried to get a fight with Viloria and there's no one else, and Mayol went on to beat the only other viable opponent (currently at light-fly) in Sosa..............you see why I still rate him.

To the guy who rates Valero top ten, get fucked:lol:

[Jordan]

Glen Johnson twice in 12 months is not P4P material.

[Primadonna Kool]

He's never fought at 140lbs so how do you know that? Genius, he's a natural lightweight at ths stage of his career. Mosley is probably a shit middleweight too.

He fought Mayweather above 140..?

He's shit, at 140 and above..!

Any top 140 fighter, will blow him away..

Bradly, Khan...all of them. Mayweather treated thier fight like a sunday morning sparring session.........

Whats he done of late, to be ranked so high...?

What have you done for me lately JMM..?

[Flea Man]

These days belts are meaningless, even the supposed 'superior' ones. It's who you beat that counts.

x10 :good:good:good:good:good:good

[Carnage]

He did in my eyes. He was dominating every second of that fight and Campbell got a cut and looked for the way out he didn't even show that warrior heart to WANT to fight on because he would rather get out with a NC. Bradley has beat 3 world champs, thats more than enough to make the list for me.

You could be right about Calderon, I'm just going with my own hunch he's past it based on his last 3 or 4 outings. He's gonna get beat then everybody will throw him off the list in a reactionary knee-jerk manner. Having evaluated his form I'm getting rid of him now considering this hasn't even been against top grade opponents. If he proves me wrong and beats a better opponent impressively I'll reintroduce him.
Calderon barely makes my list, one loss and it will probably take him off my list, but unlikely for Bradley's place. Beating 3 world champs is good, however not p4p worthy, I think we will have to agree to disagree here, because in your way Froch could have an argument (right?!).

[Flea Man]

Glen Johnson twice in 12 months is not P4P material.

Valero; nobody in his whole career is not P4P material

[Jordan]

These days belts are meaningless, even the supposed 'superior' ones. It's who you beat that counts.

I agree, and I also would use this rule for opponents, my above comment again, and Tarver. Tarver is a poor World Champ in my eyes. His best round was # 2 in the last Rocky.

[Jordan]

As for Froch and Haye, they should be in with a shout also.

[TFFP]

Froch just got a robbery in his favour and hasn't looked overly impressive despite winning, so that goes against him. Basically the simplest way to put it is Bradley has looked p4p in the way he's winning fights and showing a full range of skills, Froch just looks like a tough man thats going to lose shortly.

[dan-b]

He fought Mayweather above 140..?

He's shit, at 140 and above..!

Any top 140 fighter, will blow him away..

Bradly, Khan...all of them. Mayweather treated thier fight like a sunday morning sparring session.........

Whats he done of late, to be ranked so high...?

What have you done for me lately JMM..?

Where would you place Marquez then?

[Carnage]

He fought Mayweather above 140..?

He's shit, at 140 and above..!

Any top 140 fighter, will blow him away..

Bradly, Khan...all of them. Mayweather treated thier fight like a sunday morning sparring session.........

Whats he done of late, to be ranked so high...?

What have you done for me lately JMM..?
Weight should not always come into issue when determining p4p, just because he can't fight at 140 due to weight, does not mean his boxing skills are inferior. What hes done of late is hes beaten Casamayor, one of the most underated champions of the decade and Diaz in a pretty amazing way!

[D-MAC]

Really Calderon hasn't fought most of the top contenders in super fly, Bradley has taken out a small amount of his but light welter is a deep division. Campbell imo is 2nd to his Holt win. Also i was very very impressed how he was putting a beat down on campbell so easily couldn't see the fight ending any other way.

Haye is a good choice for 10th seeing as most other people at 10 haven't got the record or the achievements haye does.

To be fair I think Cazares was No.1 in the division when Calderon moved up to beat him. Though its true that he hasn't done much since, and his victories have been less than convincing.

[ishy]

Well, considering he's tried to get a fight with Viloria and there's no one else, and Mayol went on to beat the only other viable opponent (currently at light-fly) in Sosa..............you see why I still rate him.

To the guy who rates Valero top ten, get fucked:lol:

Mayol's win over Sosa does put Calderon in a better light but it was kinda controversial. Mayol butted Sosa and broke his cheekbone or something :lol:.

[Carnage]

Froch just got a robbery in his favour and hasn't looked overly impressive despite winning, so that goes against him. Basically the simplest way to put it is Bradley has looked p4p in the way he's winning fights and showing a full range of skills, Froch just looks like a tough man thats going to lose shortly.
No I'm just taking piss about Froch's place just yet(!). If you say Bradley, then what about Ward???Or even Abraham??

[TFFP]

I don't think Calderon has been at the top of his game since 2006. It says something about him that he's still won all these fights but if he was in a deep division fighting fighters that would be in and around these rankings themselves it might be a different story. He's struggled with Cazares a few times, wasn't at his sharpest against Diepa, Mayol or Esquer. I can see a shock loss in his future. No real surprise though...he is 34 years old and years of being the little man probably takes its toll.

[ishy]

No I'm just taking piss about Froch's place just yet(!). If you say Bradley, then what about Ward???Or even Abraham??

Bradley has multiple wins at the top level, the other two only have 1 (and that's pushing it for AA).

[Beeston Brawler]

Calderon could do with finishing a fight - it's been a while :lol:

In all seriousness, I've not followed his recent career all that thoroughly, but there is a trend of cut stoppages - what are the circumstances?

This rule seems to be too flexible and needs clarification IMO.

[Flea Man]

I don't think Calderon has been at the top of his game since 2006. It says something about him that he's still won all these fights but if he was in a deep division fighting fighters that would be in and around these rankings themselves it might be a different story. He's struggled with Cazares a few times, wasn't at his sharpest against Diepa, Mayol or Esquer. I can see a shock loss in his future. No real surprise though...he is 34 years old and years of being the little man probably takes its toll.

To be fair it's rare you have a Chang/Zapata in the same division at the same time. Calderon can beat Viloria and solidify his status, I'd prefer him to move up and fight KOKI KAMEDA!!!!!!!!!

[LHL]

To be fair I think Cazares was No.1 in the division when Calderon moved up to beat him. Though its true that he hasn't done much since, and his victories have been less than convincing.

The First Cazares fight i thought was the best Calderon i had seen, every since the 2nd one though i have sort of been waiting on him to get beat. Each fight after he has got less and less impressive. Taken into account though he hasn't went the full 12 in a year or so due to that cut he keeps getting.

Segura & Viloria are two fights that have to be made with Calderon and im not 100% sure he can win them. Also think he could move back down a weight he looks very flabby but i only see that happen if he gets beat.

[TFFP]

No I'm just taking piss about Froch's place just yet(!). If you say Bradley, then what about Ward???Or even Abraham??
Ward looks p4p material and I'd be surprised if he isn't very soon but we should hold off a little IMO. Kessler was a great win but its a similar case to Donaire, one swallow and all that. It gets messy if we put guys in there for one worthy win. The rankings have more credibility if its truely earnt, that way you don't get new guys coming in every other week and guys falling out of the reckoning due to a single loss. I mean it becomes more of a list of 'guys with a good win recently' than p4p.

Bradley has wins over 3 recent world champs in his last 5 outings, thats where the credibility and consistency is coming from rather than just one single event. Theres a trend that says Bradley deserves it.

[LHL]

To be fair it's rare you have a Chang/Zapata in the same division at the same time. Calderon can beat Viloria and solidify his status, I'd prefer him to move up and fight KOKI KAMEDA!!!!!!!!!

I think Segura would be a big threat also. Moving up might be a bit much for Calderon he doesn't look like a light flyweight looks very chubby or something a bit like Napa... I must be coming off as a skinny fuck saying this :lol:

A move down and clearing out Gonzales and a few other guys down there would be a decent move if he is beaten.

[Flea Man]

Segura is dangerous but beatable; good fight :good

[Flea Man]

The First Cazares fight i thought was the best Calderon i had seen, every since the 2nd one though i have sort of been waiting on him to get beat. Each fight after he has got less and less impressive. Taken into account though he hasn't went the full 12 in a year or so due to that cut he keeps getting.

Segura & Viloria are two fights that have to be made with Calderon and im not 100% sure he can win them. Also think he could move back down a weight he looks very flabby but i only see that happen if he gets beat.

Didn't Calderon get battered in the 11th though? And dropped? Or am I tripping?

[LHL]

Didn't Calderon get battered in the 11th though? And dropped? Or am I tripping?

Your right i think i remember him being dropped but also thought he came on strong at the end not seen the fight in a long time. Just thought at times in that fight Calderon boxed really well. Especially as D-Mac said Cazares was number one to claderon at the time and he couldn't really get anything off on him for a majority of the fight.

I thought it was a bit clearer to Calderon than the judging had it unless i've got fights mixed up. Was this on setanta??

[Flea Man]

Your right i think i remember him being dropped but also thought he came on strong at the end not seen the fight in a long time. Just thought at times in that fight Calderon boxed really well. Especially as D-Mac said Cazares was number one to claderon at the time and he couldn't really get anything off on him for a majority of the fight.

I thought it was a bit clearer to Calderon than the judging had it unless i've got fights mixed up. Was this on setanta??

I'm not disputing tat Calderon is really good; I'm a fan:good

Just trying to figure out if I'd got my fights mixed up mate

[LHL]

I'm not disputing tat Calderon is really good; I'm a fan:good

Just trying to figure out if I'd got my fights mixed up mate

No problem i was just making sure i had the right fight as well :lol:

Either way this is a good thread its been a while since the brit forum had a good debate :D

[robpalmer135]

*****New P4P Vote is Currently taking place. Please vote at the link below*****

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[ShaneTheSherrif]

1 Pacquiao
2 Mayweather
3 Hopkins
4 Mosley
5 Marquez
6 Williams
7 Cotto
8 Dawson
9 Bradley
10 Calderon