Ali versus Carnera: YOU are Carnera's trainer

[cross_trainer]

YOU are Carnera's trainer preparing him for a fight against Ali. What is your fight strategy? How do you train him?

And no, responses like "give him a gun" or "surrender" don't count. :nono

[Andrey]

Carefully observe the ring before the fight. Make sure you find a possible soft place on the canvas so you wont get a possible rug burn when you hit the flooor.
Bring three white towels just in case.
Dont call him Clay before the fight, torturing wont be as severe.



Andrey

[PetethePrince]

Not a trainer but here I go...

Train for stamina, reflexes, speed. Everything to combat Ali's advantages. Everything to limit them. Carnera already has the height, reach, and power. Get his stamina up and practice working his jab, body attack, and combination. I would make Carnera slowly fight on the backfoot and make Ali the aggressive. With height and reach, and with Ali reaching I think Carnera might have a chance at countering or landing that jab and straight right on him. If he ever seems to stun or hurt Ali he needs to jump on Ali. If all plans fail or go astray. I force Canera to rope a dope. If that has no success. I force him to hit and hold. If the ref stops him from that I tell him to jab and move. I demand him to make straight punches, and to block the head and lean back when Ali goes on the attack. I make sure my fighter is ability to mix offense and defense somewhat effectively. This is very needed when fighting Ali.

[ripcity]

Which version Of Ali are we talking about?

[McGrain]

Just make sure he turns up in the best physical shape possible. Spar him with ligh-heavies who are much quicker than him and don't spare his confidence. Polish his right hand lead/left hook until they sparkle.

[mcvey]

Not a trainer but here I go...

Train for stamina, reflexes, speed. Everything to combat Ali's advantages. Everything to limit them. Carnera already has the height, reach, and power. Get his stamina up and practice working his jab, body attack, and combination. I would make Carnera slowly fight on the backfoot and make Ali the aggressive. With height and reach, and with Ali reaching I think Carnera might have a chance at countering or landing that jab and straight right on him. If he ever seems to stun or hurt Ali he needs to jump on Ali. If all plans fail or go astray. I force Canera to rope a dope. If that has no success. I force him to hit and hold. If the ref stops him from that I tell him to jab and move. I demand him to make straight punches, and to block the head and lean back when Ali goes on the attack. I make sure my fighter is ability to mix offense and defense somewhat effectively. This is very needed when fighting Ali.

I would tell Carnera to use his weight to lean all over Ali inside.
I very much doubt that Carnera had more power than Ali,and see no scenario in which he would stun ,daze ,wobble ,or otherwise discomfort him.

[CottoDaBodykill]

scream alot like mickey did in rocky 2

[frankenfrank]

1. use your jab
2. if he retreats back him up with straight punches
3. if he clinches , lean on him
4. if he uses the rope-a-dope maintain your distance and try to land straight punches from a safe distance

[red cobra]

"Primo, as your trainer I insist that you don't sign for this fight."

[red cobra]

1. use your jab
2. if he retreats back him up with straight punches
3. if he clinches , lean on him
4. if he uses the rope-a-dope maintain your distance and try to land straight punches from a safe distance
All this is fine and good, but sooner or later, as in the Ron Lyle fight, Ali will land one of his rare hard shots to Carnera's jaw...and unlike Lyle, who weathered the follow up shots from Ali until the fight was stopped, Carnera would go down..get up, go down again or be on his feet helpless and the fight would be stopped. Carnera would lose to Ali no matter what clever stratagem was devised for him by even an Eddie Futch of a trainer.

[red cobra]

Which version Of Ali are we talking about?
Let's make it fair for Primo and make it the Ali of the Berbick fight.

[janitor]

This might be more interesting than people think for the following reasons:

Any fighter with a good jab can give Ali some issues with the right fight plan ans Ken Norton proved.

Carnera was quite clever in his use of hooks and uppercuts which are the punches that a fighter who avoids punishment by pulling back is most vulnerable to.

Ali would never have fought an oponent with Carnera's combination of size and skill so we don't quite know how that would play into the equation.

[Stevie G]

I would tell Carnera to use his weight to lean all over Ali inside.
I very much doubt that Carnera had more power than Ali,and see no scenario in which he would stun ,daze ,wobble ,or otherwise discomfort him.
This would be the only practical strategy for Carnera to adopt. It may make him survive till midway point in the fight.

[johnmaff36]

Insist in the contract as small a ring as possible. Pressure pressure pressure and fight for 3mins of every round. And he would still be KO'd. In Carneras defence, only a small few would have given Ali any kind of fight in his prime and unless your one of these small few, having a hybrid of dundee and futch in your corner wont help

[PowerPuncher]

Try to do a big money deal with the MOB to pick a round to take a dive in, have Carnera run, keep a high guard and hold until that round and pray to god Ali doesnt stop him before that round. That way my fighter gets a nice retirement cheque

[janitor]

Why is everybody confidently predicting a stoppage here?

Ali is not exactly a Max Baer or Joe Louis type hitter and Carnera was not particularly easy to stop.

Also the stylistic dynamic might make it harder for Ali to go all out for a stoppage and force a more tactical fight on his part.

[johnmaff36]

A peak Ali-circa 67- had something like 23KOs in 28 fights give or take a fight, and IMO would have had far far too much in his armoury for Carnera. Lets be realistic here, we're talking about 'the greatest'. If Ali doesnt at least stop Carnera then we all might as well forget everything we think we know about the sport. Anyone who thinks Carnera would win this fight should get their head looked at

[Mr Butt]

i would be shouting look out here he comes, later in the fight i would be saying stay down. ali by stoppage speed kills

[Boxed Ears]

"Quick, Primo! Be more talented! Punch him in the nuts, also. We can risk DQ at this point."

[KTFO]

Epic fail.

[dublynflya]

scream alot like mickey did in rocky 2

:lol:

[dublynflya]

Epic fail.

:good

[dublynflya]

Try to do a big money deal with the MOB to pick a round to take a dive in, have Carnera run, keep a high guard and hold until that round and pray to god Ali doesnt stop him before that round. That way my fighter gets a nice retirement cheque

The smart play!:-).

[dublynflya]

A peak Ali-circa 67- had something like 23KOs in 28 fights give or take a fight, and IMO would have had far far too much in his armoury for Carnera. Lets be realistic here, we're talking about 'the greatest'. If Ali doesnt at least stop Carnera then we all might as well forget everything we think we know about the sport. Anyone who thinks Carnera would win this fight should get their head looked at

If they do suggest that the "Ambling Alp" would have been competitive against "Late 60's" Ali they are obviously at the "Wind up", John!! Don't take the bait pal!!:-).

[Boxed Ears]

If they do suggest that the "Ambling Alp" would have been competitive against "Late 60's" Ali they are obviously at the "Wind up", John!! Don't take the bait pal!!:-).

Actually...what about prime Primo VS the Ali of the Berbick fight?

[apollack]

I would have Carnera start off the fight backing away from Ali. Ali loved to have guys come to him, make them miss, then counter. He liked to make guys work and wear themselves out and expose themselves. I would have Primo do the exact opposite. Fight cautiously, throw few punches, move away or stand at long range, use his height and reach. Primo could probably get away with it to a certain degree because he was big and strong, but also very tall with long arms. Get Ali out of his game a bit. When Ali goes to throw, step away and throw that long jab, or go underneath with a body shot. Keep a high and super tight guard when he does happen to get on top of you because Ali never goes to the body anyhow, so you don't have to worry about that. Also, instead of just blocking, work on tying Ali up the way he likes to tie up his opponents, so he can't get off with those combos. Carnera had some wrestling knowledge, so he could use his weight and height and reach to grab and lay on Ali the way Ali did with shorter opponents.

Anyway, given what I've seen of Carnera and Ali, that's probably how I'd game plan Carnera's fight.

[leverage]

"Primo, as your trainer I insist that you don't sign for this fight."
My thoughts exactly.

[red cobra]

Why is everybody confidently predicting a stoppage here?

Ali is not exactly a Max Baer or Joe Louis type hitter and Carnera was not particularly easy to stop.

Also the stylistic dynamic might make it harder for Ali to go all out for a stoppage and force a more tactical fight on his part.
I think the ko scored by Ali wouldn't be of a dynamic nature, with devastating punches, ala Baer and Louis, but rather more like Ali's last round or two with Buster Mathis, with Carnera going down almost in slow motion from a flurry, an accumulation of punches. I would guess a 12 or 13 round tko for Ali, with moments where Carnera, though his sheer awkwardness would actually make Ali look less than stellar, as did Karl Mildenberger did.

[GPater11093]

Right,

Id get him a long camp training on stamina, speed and his jab. Lots of sparring with quick Light heavys that use their reflexes more than anything. We would work on keeping at range with the jab and looking to counter moving backwards. A lot of work would go into the left hook- straight right combo after stepping back.

For the fight i would want Primo to stay off Ali and make him come forward and look to land the jab as Ali advanced, as soon as Ali got into range i would tell him to throw the left hook-straight right combo, the left hook would get Ali leaning back and the right hand good tag him as he leaned back and probably knock Ali back.

As soon as Ali got close primo would have to lean on him and look to work the body just to tire Ali out more than anything, if it was a younger Ali i would tell primo to be abit rough on the inside and look to get Ali shaken up and annoyed by say a bit of dirty work with the head or low blows to the hips as he came in.

Except from that i would giv ehimalot of motivationa nd confidence

[red cobra]

Another Ali fight to compare it to would be the Wepner tko, with Primo falling with a mighty crash.

[DudeGuyMan]

I agree with the folks who want Primo to back up and make Ali come to him. Fuck it, make it a stinker. God knows Carnera is doomed in a rousing fight.