Greatest heavyweight named Max

[janitor]

Is it Mr Schmeling or Mr Baer?

[redrooster]

i like Baer. he wasn't as disciplined but was more dangerous

[brooklyn1550]

Max Schmeling

[Duodenum]

Max Schmeling, easily. Even if he had never boxed Joe Louis, I believe he would be a legitimate HOFer. He was the only one to ever stop Stribling, and this was a title challenger who was never stopped in his other 289 recorded bouts.

Overlooked in the battering that Schmeling gave Walker is the fact that no other heavyweight was ever able to demonstrate such mastery over the Toy Bulldog. Mickey decisioned Uzcudun, won 11 of 15 rounds on one card in drawing with a peak Jack Sharkey, dropped and nearly knocked out 210 pound Bearcat Wright (who less than two months later would knock out Tiger Jack Fox, ending Fox's career best 21 bout unbeaten streak), and won two out of three with Johnny Risko (dropping Risko in their first matchup, and nearly knocking him out in a return go). Walker wasn't exactly washed up when Schmeling pounded him. Less than three months later, Mickey retired 6'4" 223 pound Italian contender Arthur DeKuh in less than two minutes. (DeKuh had weighed as much as 229, and had previously gone the ten round distance with Max Baer.)

About two years later, Walker would floor and decision Maxie Rosenbloom over ten rounds for his final major win. At 6'1," and 188 pounds, Schmeling didn't simply defeat Walker because he was the bigger man, but because he was an ATG HW who was at the absolute top of his game when they met. Over the previous ten years and 79 matches of Walker's career, the only opponents who Mickey had fought and failed to defeat were Joe Dundee (who stopped Walker in eight rounds on a butt-induced cut), Tommy Loughran and Harry Greb. Make no mistake about it. Being bigger than Walker was of no help in trying to beat him soundly. Only ATG HOF calibre champions at their best, like Greb, Loughran, and Schmeling, could have succeeded at such an accomplishment using their fists without also suffering a loss in exchange at that particular stage of Walker's career (from the early 1920s to the early 1930s).

Schmeling upset and retired Steve Hamas, knocking him out in nine rounds. He beat up Paulino Uzcudun three times, but Paulino got a hometown draw against Max in Spain. The first time they met at Yankee Stadium over 15 rounds Schmeling hurt his right hand in the fifth round, yet still nearly knocked Paulino out, demonstrating that he was much more than a one armed fighter. (Schmeling's left was so damaging to Paulino, that Uzcudun's right was in a sling for six weeks. If Max had finished that match with two good hands, he, not Louis, would have been the first man to drop and take out Uzcudun, who he had beaten to a blind and bloody pulp by the end.)

In Max Baer's peak performance, he could not keep Schmeling down (in one of the poorest showings of Schmeling's career). And Schmeling kept getting up against some of the hardest punches Louis ever inflicted.

Destitute after WW II, he came back from severe wartime injuries to record a 3-2 postwar record, fracture the jaw of his hapless opponent in his final win, then parlay the money obtained from his comeback into a successfull business partnership, heading up Coca Cola in Germany (and paying for Joe Louis's funeral, among other good deeds).

[McGrain]

The answer to the question "greatest" is easily Schmeling for me.

Peak for peak, best is a more interesting question in my opinion.

[C. M. Clay II]

Well, head-to-head it's obviously Baer.

[unitas]

schmeling no question. great fighter.....even greater person.

baer never realized his potential.

funny thing about baer is that he claimed to be jewish......to cash in on the anti german sintiment in the USA at the time.

only one problem: he was of german stock and not cercumsised. his manager cleared it up saying: i saw him under the shower and he aint jewish...

[Dempsey1238]

ClayII does not relly get it. Baer and Schemling fought 1 time. I pretty sure had there been a rematch. Schmeling could have goting a win. in a series of fights. The fight was pretty close until the 9th round or so. It was not the beat down people make it out to be. Baer just caught the German with a good shot and follow up from there. Other wises its a close battle.

What would happen if Ali Fraizer fought one time?? Or Bowe Holyfiled?? Or Ted Kid Lews vs Jack Britton?? Or even Schemling Louis. No one would know what happen in rematchs if they never foguth the rematch.

Some times head to head is not the end all arugment. If Tommy Farr could have beating Baer, I give Schmeling a GREAT shot in a rematch.

[Langford]

Max Schmeling.

[Maxmomer]

In Max Baer's peak performance, he could not keep Schmeling down (in one of the poorest showings of Schmeling's career).


After watching that fight I had a new respect for Schmeling's determination and toughness. The right hand that floored Schmeling in the 10th for 9 was absolutely brutal, I have no idea how he got up from that

[redrooster]

Maybe but it was Baer´s peak performance and Schmeling had one of his worst outings and was still competative with Baer, so i could argue that if i would see any significance in it.

that thread is about greatness and not h2h. So, who do you rank higher?

what are you talking about. Bear practically took his head off

[Maxmomer]

what are you talking about. Bear practically took his head off
Yeah, in then tenth round. Till then it was competative, with Schmeling consistently landing his right and jab. Granted, it was Baer's fight all the way, but it wasn't a complete domination.

[Jack Dempsey]

Schmeling

[The Kurgan]

Max Kellerman: an intellectual heavyweight!

[Ted Spoon]

In Max Baer's peak performance, he could not keep Schmeling down (in one of the poorest showings of Schmeling's career). And Schmeling kept getting up against some of the hardest punches Louis ever inflicted.

A little over-critical.

You have to consider why Schmeling appeared to be performing so poorly; he had Max Baer in front of him who was extremely hard to position or back up. Schmelings punching prowess counting for nothing in this encounter and for once, Baer utilized an effective cross-armed defence to block much of Schmelings pot-shotting throughout the bout.

Schmeling picked up the majority of the middle rounds through Baers unwillingness to put his foot on the gas. When Baer did step it up, Schmeling found it very difficult to contain the onslaught.

This was Baers most significant performance in his career; it was nowhere near a perfect execution, he did not have to fight out of his skin, which shows you just how much of a hand full his style was for Schmeling.

[Nemesis]

Rosenbloom!

[Nemesis]

Max Kellerman: an intellectual heavyweight!

that must be a joke, he is a complete baffoon

[Duodenum]

A little over-critical.

You have to consider why Schmeling appeared to be performing so poorly; he had Max Baer in front of him who was extremely hard to position or back up. Schmelings punching prowess counting for nothing in this encounter and for once, Baer utilized an effective cross-armed defence to block much of Schmelings pot-shotting throughout the bout.

Schmeling picked up the majority of the middle rounds through Baers unwillingness to put his foot on the gas. When Baer did step it up, Schmeling found it very difficult to contain the onslaught.

This was Baers most significant performance in his career; it was nowhere near a perfect execution, he did not have to fight out of his skin, which shows you just how much of a hand full his style was for Schmeling.I'll concede your point. The unpredictable Baer did do a good job of confusing the calculating Schmeling at times, and Baer's steel chin was never more in evidence. Still, the outcome was somewhat surprising, considering the success Schmeling had against Uzcudun, an adversary not too unlike Maxie stylistically (who also used a cross armed defense, and could be difficult to position or back up with his enormous strength).

[Holmes' Jab]

Schmeling.

[fists of fury]

Schmeling for me too.

[abraq]

Schmeling was the better overall fighter, possibly because he was committed.

Baer clearly had the better potential.

Head to head it always would be Baer.

[Bigcat]

Schmelling was historically the finer heavyweight , even though Max had amazing potential that was never fulfilled..

Max S ... was the better of the Max's

[brooklyn1550]

1. Schmeling
2. Baer

[mcvey]

Is it Mr Schmeling or Mr Baer?
This is a tough one because Schmeling had that ko over Louis ,while Baer folded out of fright,but Baer after taking some early punishment against the German,came alive ,and kod him,for this reason ,though he wasn,t consistant ,on his best night , I go for Baer.