The Gene Tunney challenge.

[Dempsey1238]

Gene Tunney in 1952 interview re. Dempsey:

“Jack Dempsey, I’m convinced, was our greatest heavyweight champion. In his prime, when he knocked out Jess Willard to win the title in 1919, he would have taken the four leading heavyweights of today – Jersey Joe Walcott, Rocky Marciano, Harry (Kid) Matthews and Ezzard Charles – and flattened them all in one night.
“These four men are honest, earnest, capable professionals. If they are not touched with ring genius, neither are they stumblebums. So I do not mean to deprecate them when I say Dempsey would have levelled them all in the same evening as follows: Matthews, two rounds. Charles, two rounds. Walcott, five rounds. Marciano, one round.
“A total of ten rounds. Even then, I don’t consider I’m giving Dempsey any the best of it. He might have demolished each of the four in less than one round. He was eminently equipped to do it. He had many championship gifts, including a great fighting heart and the ability to absorb a tremendous punch and recuperate astonishingly fast.
“He learned his trade the hard way against fighters of all sizes, shape and brands from mining camp, deadfall and dance hall to huge arena and stadium.

Tunney Claims that Dempsey would have flatten Harry Kid Matthews, Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles and Rocky Marciano all in one night, one right after the other, and in less than ten rounds total.

So I pose this question.

What Heavyweight Champion, from Sullivan to the Kilt Brothers would have the best chance in over coming this task?? No breaks between fights, The movement Harry Kid Matthews is beating, Joe Walcott jumps in the ring.

[boxerca]

We're basically looking for punchers, here.

I think Foreman or Tyson could've done it. I see them being able to knock out Matthews, Charles and Walcott. The question for them is how long it would take.

The big problem is Marciano, though. He's got a solid chin and, even though I could see Foreman or Tyson being able to knock him out, he would probably take a while longer to knock out than the other three.

But if anyone's gonna get it done, I would side with either of those two.

[Beau Geste]

Gene Tunney in 1952 interview re. Dempsey:

“Jack Dempsey, I’m convinced, was our greatest heavyweight champion. In his prime, when he knocked out Jess Willard to win the title in 1919, he would have taken the four leading heavyweights of today – Jersey Joe Walcott, Rocky Marciano, Harry (Kid) Matthews and Ezzard Charles – and flattened them all in one night.
“These four men are honest, earnest, capable professionals. If they are not touched with ring genius, neither are they stumblebums. So I do not mean to deprecate them when I say Dempsey would have levelled them all in the same evening as follows: Matthews, two rounds. Charles, two rounds. Walcott, five rounds. Marciano, one round.
“A total of ten rounds. Even then, I don’t consider I’m giving Dempsey any the best of it. He might have demolished each of the four in less than one round. He was eminently equipped to do it. He had many championship gifts, including a great fighting heart and the ability to absorb a tremendous punch and recuperate astonishingly fast.
“He learned his trade the hard way against fighters of all sizes, shape and brands from mining camp, deadfall and dance hall to huge arena and stadium.

Tunney Claims that Dempsey would have flatten Harry Kid Matthews, Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles and Rocky Marciano all in one night, one right after the other, and in less than ten rounds total.

So I pose this question.

What Heavyweight Champion, from Sullivan to the Kilt Brothers would have the best chance in over coming this task?? No breaks between fights, The movement Harry Kid Matthews is beating, Joe Walcott jumps in the ring.

I am not sure any fighter could have actually pulled this off, including Dempsey. However, head to head, the Klitschko brothers because of their size, skill and fitness would have a shot.

[Dempsey1238]

We're basically looking for punchers, here.

I think Foreman or Tyson could've done it. I see them being able to knock out Matthews, Charles and Walcott. The question for them is how long it would take.

The big problem is Marciano, though. He's got a solid chin and, even though I could see Foreman or Tyson being able to knock him out, he would probably take a while longer to knock out than the other three.

But if anyone's gonna get it done, I would side with either of those two.


Dont think Foreman or Tyson could do it.

I watch Foreman vs the 5, and though Foreman ko the first 3 guys in a breeze, the 4th and 5th guys gave Foreman hell. Seeing this footage at the time and rember what Tunney said, Had Marciano been the last guy, vs Foreman, Foreman was not going to leave the Ring on his own free will.

[Seamus]

the only answer i can offer is the disciple of dempsey... a prime version of tyson.

[Boxed Ears]

I think we're taking some truly glowing, gushing praise a bit too seriously here.

[Dempsey1238]

I think we're taking some truly glowing, gushing praise a bit too seriously here.


For Tyson just walking though Matthews, Walcott, Charles and Marciano in 1 round each? Or for the said fighters beating Tyson?

[Sweet Pea]

Tunney was talking nonsense, obviously.

[Dempsey1238]

Tunney was talking nonsense, obviously.


Sure about that?? He relly belive that Dempsey would smash though Charles, Walcott and Marciano in less than ten rounds.

I think Tunney belive in his own words. I pretty sure 1960's Ali would belive he could do it.

[Bodysnatcher]

...

[Boxed Ears]

Gene's comments are valid, imho.

I think Gene and Jack handle anyone until Liston.


Handle? Okay. Knock them all out in one night in under ten rounds of boxing? A solid contender and three HOFers? That's pure nonsense, man. Tunney couldn't have believed that, I don't think. He was a smart man. I think he was just showing his respect through exaggeration there.

[MRBILL]

Coming from '52, I will buy Eugene Tunney's word / statement......... After all, Rocco Marciano was a newly crowned champion in Sept. of that year......

However, by the end of the decade, I cannot buy, nor do I believe Tunney's interview from 1952 holds much water.......

I can picture Jack Dempsey from 1919 beating the likes of "Charles, Walcott and Archie Moore" in a time machine..... But I cannot see Dempsey beating Marciano in a time machine...... Dempsey and Marciano were a lot alike in terms of fighting, but Marciano had better training and instructions that enabled him to be more polished and well-rounded than Jack Dempsey, who I found to be crude and wild at times......

MR.BILL

[Boxed Ears]

Coming from '52, I will buy Eugene Tunney's word / statement......... After all, Rocco Marciano was a newly crowned champion in Sept. of that year......

However, by the end of the decade, I cannot buy, nor do I believe Tunney's interview from 1952 holds much water.......

I can picture Jack Dempsey from 1919 beating the likes of "Charles, Walcott and Archie Moore" in a time machine..... But I cannot see Dempsey beating Marciano in a time machine...... Dempsey and Marciano were a lot alike in terms of fighting, but Marciano had better training and instructions that enabled him to be more polished and well-rounded than Jack Dempsey, who I found to be crude and wild at times......

MR.BILL

Although I still think it was just respectfully great exaggeration, maybe because I'm viewing the statement with the context of history and not from the perspective of someone in 1952 and he really was serious...but maybe it was still something he just started blurting out. I think we've all blurted out a big statement like that and then immediately realized it didn't hold up to realistic critical thinking.

[GregDempsey]

Gene Tunney in 1952 interview re. Dempsey:

“Jack Dempsey, I’m convinced, was our greatest heavyweight champion. In his prime, when he knocked out Jess Willard to win the title in 1919, he would have taken the four leading heavyweights of today – Jersey Joe Walcott, Rocky Marciano, Harry (Kid) Matthews and Ezzard Charles – and flattened them all in one night.
“These four men are honest, earnest, capable professionals. If they are not touched with ring genius, neither are they stumblebums. So I do not mean to deprecate them when I say Dempsey would have levelled them all in the same evening as follows: Matthews, two rounds. Charles, two rounds. Walcott, five rounds. Marciano, one round.
“A total of ten rounds. Even then, I don’t consider I’m giving Dempsey any the best of it. He might have demolished each of the four in less than one round. He was eminently equipped to do it. He had many championship gifts, including a great fighting heart and the ability to absorb a tremendous punch and recuperate astonishingly fast.
“He learned his trade the hard way against fighters of all sizes, shape and brands from mining camp, deadfall and dance hall to huge arena and stadium.

Tunney Claims that Dempsey would have flatten Harry Kid Matthews, Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles and Rocky Marciano all in one night, one right after the other, and in less than ten rounds total.

So I pose this question.

What Heavyweight Champion, from Sullivan to the Kilt Brothers would have the best chance in over coming this task?? No breaks between fights, The movement Harry Kid Matthews is beating, Joe Walcott jumps in the ring.

I love dempsey, but i dont see him being able to do all that..he went many rounds with guys like Bill Brennan ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), and while i think dempsey would have beaten all the guys listed..doing it in one night is a bit crazy...as for who could have done..it guess the best chance would have been big punchers who could start fast..young foreman..tyson..lewis...wlad...also those guys would have had a good size advantage and where fast starters...still...it seems like a hard task to imagine.

I think Tunney was being a bit too kind to my hero...and yes, he references the dempsey that fought willard..but i dont think the was that off his game by the time he fought brennan.

[GregDempsey]

..... But I cannot see Dempsey beating Marciano in a time machine...... Dempsey and Marciano were a lot alike in terms of fighting, but Marciano had better training and instructions that enabled him to be more polished and well-rounded than Jack Dempsey, who I found to be crude and wild at times......

MR.BILL


MrBill...the only time dempsey had ever looked wild or crude to me is when he had already hurt willard..and knew that willard had no chance to hurt him..hence he was throwing very strong punches known as "swings" dempsey's defense was very good...watch the first mintue 1:40 of willard dempsey..his movement around the ring..his walking away from jabs..his slips..his fast punches...his dempsey roll that drops willard...marciano may have one....and i think its crazy to say that dempsey takes him out in one...but i think dempsey beats the Rock...straight up..and dempsey was definitly more polished.

[DudeGuyMan]

Prime Tyson could do it, maybe. If none of them chose to spoil and kill time. Foreman has the firepower to put any one of them down in short order, but I dunno about all of them in a row.

Dempsey, nah, Rocky probably kicks his ass.

Vitali, no. He's solid, but doesn't have the explosive aggression to keep it under ten rounds total. I could see one of those clever little guys making a tired VK look really bad late in the proceedings.

Wladimir doesn't have a big enough gas tank or a sturdy enough chin. The first couple fights tire him out, and the third guy kicks his ass for an exhaustion TKO.

I'll say prime Tyson or nobody. At his best he's a bigger and more polished Dempsey. But I don't really rate his chances of doing it all in ten rounds or less.

[Bioyhh]

Has there ever been a retired fighter who didn't say that the stalwarts of his day would have destroyed every contemporary fighter in a walk? Tunney was a very intelligent and articulate man, but he's just blowing smoke here. It was a roundabout way for Gene to say that he would have destroyed Charles, Walcott, Matthews, and the Rock in one night; after all, Gene beat Dempsey, so if Jack could tear through these guys what does that say about Tunney?

[GregDempsey]

Has there ever been a retired fighter who didn't say that the stalwarts of his day would have destroyed every contemporary fighter in a walk? Tunney was a very intelligent and articulate man, but he's just blowing smoke here. It was a roundabout way for Gene to say that he would have destroyed Charles, Walcott, Matthews, and the Rock in one night; after all, Gene beat Dempsey, so if Jack could tear through these guys what does that say about Tunney?


yeah i agree...although i would have loved for whoever was interviewing tunney to have said "well ok, so on the night that dempsey beat willard..how would the best version of tunney have done" lol..in truth i think tunney does lose the dempsey that beat willard..but i wonder what gene would have said.

[GregDempsey]

Prime Tyson could do it, maybe. If none of them chose to spoil and kill time. Foreman has the firepower to put any one of them down in short order, but I dunno about all of them in a row.

Dempsey, nah, Rocky probably kicks his ass.

Vitali, no. He's solid, but doesn't have the explosive aggression to keep it under ten rounds total. I could see one of those clever little guys making a tired VK look really bad late in the proceedings.

Wladimir doesn't have a big enough gas tank or a sturdy enough chin. The first couple fights tire him out, and the third guy kicks his ass for an exhaustion TKO.

I'll say prime Tyson or nobody. At his best he's a bigger and more polished Dempsey. But I don't really rate his chances of doing it all in ten rounds or less.


you could be right..though wlads energy has looked good in recent fights...and he would have a huge size advantage over all those guys that might be too much..but he would have to fight more aggressively then has in recent years to get knockouts as fast as gene was saying....as for rocky dempsey..i think dempsey beats him..i think he is too fast and too skilled..but i will agree that one round is a bit much..but really..one round might be too much for anyone...

[Bill Butcher]

Gene Tunney in 1952 interview re. Dempsey:

“Jack Dempsey, I’m convinced, was our greatest heavyweight champion. In his prime, when he knocked out Jess Willard to win the title in 1919, he would have taken the four leading heavyweights of today – Jersey Joe Walcott, Rocky Marciano, Harry (Kid) Matthews and Ezzard Charles – and flattened them all in one night.
“These four men are honest, earnest, capable professionals. If they are not touched with ring genius, neither are they stumblebums. So I do not mean to deprecate them when I say Dempsey would have levelled them all in the same evening as follows: Matthews, two rounds. Charles, two rounds. Walcott, five rounds. Marciano, one round.
“A total of ten rounds. Even then, I don’t consider I’m giving Dempsey any the best of it. He might have demolished each of the four in less than one round. He was eminently equipped to do it. He had many championship gifts, including a great fighting heart and the ability to absorb a tremendous punch and recuperate astonishingly fast.
“He learned his trade the hard way against fighters of all sizes, shape and brands from mining camp, deadfall and dance hall to huge arena and stadium.

Tunney Claims that Dempsey would have flatten Harry Kid Matthews, Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles and Rocky Marciano all in one night, one right after the other, and in less than ten rounds total.

So I pose this question.

What Heavyweight Champion, from Sullivan to the Kilt Brothers would have the best chance in over coming this task?? No breaks between fights, The movement Harry Kid Matthews is beating, Joe Walcott jumps in the ring.

1. No HW in history is capable of doing this, even at their peak.
2. Dempsey would be lucky to make a top 10 HW list, Tunney is high as fuck, didnt know crack was available 80 yrs ago :rofl

[Bill Butcher]

Gene is trying to make himself look even better than he is because he beat Jack Dempsey twice, this much is obvious.

[GregDempsey]

1. No HW in history is capable of doing this, even at their peak.
2. Dempsey would be lucky to make a top 10 HW list, Tunney is high as fuck, didnt know crack was available 80 yrs ago :rofl

make sure you work on your grade school level math before you take your ged test....that was a quote from one guy who fought about 80 years ago..talking about Dempsey, who fought about 80 years ago....talking about him fighting fighters who fought about FIFTY years ago....so clearly the quote would not have been made 80 years ago....:rasta

lol i am actually just being a prick...but i think dempsey is top 10...

[mcvey]

MrBill...the only time dempsey had ever looked wild or crude to me is when he had already hurt willard..and knew that willard had no chance to hurt him..hence he was throwing very strong punches known as "swings" dempsey's defense was very good...watch the first mintue 1:40 of willard dempsey..his movement around the ring..his walking away from jabs..his slips..his fast punches...his dempsey roll that drops willard...marciano may have one....and i think its crazy to say that dempsey takes him out in one...but i think dempsey beats the Rock...straight up..and dempsey was definitly more polished.

I quite agree with this assessment.

[GregDempsey]

i think dempsey might just rip the rock apart though....slower pressure fighting going againt a faster pressure fighter who also knows how to pivot step can be bad for the slower pressure fighter..just ask Ricky and Manny

[GregDempsey]

I quite agree with this assessment.
and having said what i said..i think rocky had better defense then many give him credit for...

[dublynflya]

We're basically looking for punchers, here.

I think Foreman or Tyson could've done it. I see them being able to knock out Matthews, Charles and Walcott. The question for them is how long it would take.

The big problem is Marciano, though. He's got a solid chin and, even though I could see Foreman or Tyson being able to knock him out, he would probably take a while longer to knock out than the other three.

But if anyone's gonna get it done, I would side with either of those two.

:good Imo those two would have had the best chance, but I do not believe that anyone, not even those two could have achieved such a task.

[dublynflya]

Gene is trying to make himself look even better than he is because he beat Jack Dempsey twice, this much is obvious.

:good Upon reading it, I to came to that conclusion! "This guy was so great etc, but I beat him twice, so how great was I?". well the answer is Gene you were great, most fans appreciate that so you really did not need to trivialise the other guys for us to acquire an appreciation of how good you were. And of course, Imo I do not believe that Dempsey would have defeated Marciano (What a great fight that would have been!!!!!).

[dublynflya]

i think dempsey might just rip the rock apart though....slower pressure fighting going againt a faster pressure fighter who also knows how to pivot step can be bad for the slower pressure fighter..just ask Ricky and Manny

I appreciate the Dempsey-Manny comparison. But I cannot consider Hatton as a fair model of Rocky! So I guess we'll have to choose another fight:-). Hatton now has a china chin and Rocky has one-punch ko power, something that Ricky has never shown at world level. In my opinion (and it is only that), I believe Dempsey-vs-Marciano would have been one of the greatest fights of all time, but i'm picking Rocky to take it via a very late tko or a decision. But, no matter who wins this, no-one is having an early night!

[Bummy Davis]

Gene Tunney in 1952 interview re. Dempsey:

“Jack Dempsey, I’m convinced, was our greatest heavyweight champion. In his prime, when he knocked out Jess Willard to win the title in 1919, he would have taken the four leading heavyweights of today – Jersey Joe Walcott, Rocky Marciano, Harry (Kid) Matthews and Ezzard Charles – and flattened them all in one night.
“These four men are honest, earnest, capable professionals. If they are not touched with ring genius, neither are they stumblebums. So I do not mean to deprecate them when I say Dempsey would have levelled them all in the same evening as follows: Matthews, two rounds. Charles, two rounds. Walcott, five rounds. Marciano, one round.
“A total of ten rounds. Even then, I don’t consider I’m giving Dempsey any the best of it. He might have demolished each of the four in less than one round. He was eminently equipped to do it. He had many championship gifts, including a great fighting heart and the ability to absorb a tremendous punch and recuperate astonishingly fast.
“He learned his trade the hard way against fighters of all sizes, shape and brands from mining camp, deadfall and dance hall to huge arena and stadium.

Tunney Claims that Dempsey would have flatten Harry Kid Matthews, Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles and Rocky Marciano all in one night, one right after the other, and in less than ten rounds total.

So I pose this question.

What Heavyweight Champion, from Sullivan to the Kilt Brothers would have the best chance in over coming this task?? No breaks between fights, The movement Harry Kid Matthews is beating, Joe Walcott jumps in the ring.


Tunney also felt George Foreman was an amatuer and that Dempsey would have beaten Ali

[junior-soprano]

well i hold dempsey verry highly (i personally think he's better then marciano)but......
this reading i most come to the conclusion that tunney is A a stupid and dumb person or B had to manny punches on the head.

[Bummy Davis]

I think Dempsey is highly underated on this site he was a great puncher and a conditioned fighter in his prime. What hurt him was inactivity but you got to remember the magnatude of the Dempsey name at that time. Remember there was no TV or Cable but everyone knew who Jack Dempsey was. I think Dempsey rates up there with the best and would have been a hand full for Ali.Lewis,Louis,Marciano and Tunney was top 10 ATG as well but JJWalcott would be a handfull for Dempsey prime or not and JJ could pull out the upset. Charles was also no slouch as a heavyweight...Now how long would it take Marciano to KO Tommy Gibbons and could Harry Greb go 15 with Marciano...Could they go 15 with JJWalcot...

[janitor]

What Heavyweight Champion, from Sullivan to the Kilt Brothers would have the best chance in over coming this task?? No breaks between fights, The movement Harry Kid Matthews is beating, Joe Walcott jumps in the ring.

Nobody could have done it.

Matthews might get stopped early.

Walcott could make it into the late rounds against prety much anybody.

Charles would definitely be able to make it into the late rounds after Walcott was through with you.

In the unlikley even that you somehow survived Walcott and Charles then Marciano would just steamroll what was left of you.

[Dempsey1238]

Nobody could have done it.

Matthews might get stopped early.

Walcott could make it into the late rounds against prety much anybody.

Charles would definitely be able to make it into the late rounds after Walcott was through with you.

In the unlikley even that you somehow survived Walcott and Charles then Marciano would just steamroll what was left of you.


Not even the great Ali?? I would have giving Ali a great shot at doing it imo.

[PetethePrince]

I am not sure any fighter could have actually pulled this off, including Dempsey. However, head to head, the Klitschko brothers because of their size, skill and fitness would have a shot.

:lol: The Klitschko brother's aren't KOing Charles or Marciano inside 1-2 rounds. Heck, one of them won't even beat him. Vitali after fighting 3 fighters like that would lose too.

The guy with the best chance is Mike Tyson, followed by Foreman and perhaps Liston. Nobody would probably be able to do this. KOing Rocky in round 1 is probably something you won't be able to do, especially after going 3 fighters with the guys you did.

[PetethePrince]

Sure about that?? He relly belive that Dempsey would smash though Charles, Walcott and Marciano in less than ten rounds.

I think Tunney belive in his own words. I pretty sure 1960's Ali would belive he could do it.

no...

[Dempsey1238]

I think Ali in the 1960's, relly belive he could have done it, if he COULD do it is other question, but Ali was pretty great in the 60's when he beat Williams. I shock people ant saying that Ali would do it.

[PetethePrince]

Has there ever been a retired fighter who didn't say that the stalwarts of his day would have destroyed every contemporary fighter in a walk? Tunney was a very intelligent and articulate man, but he's just blowing smoke here. It was a roundabout way for Gene to say that he would have destroyed Charles, Walcott, Matthews, and the Rock in one night; after all, Gene beat Dempsey, so if Jack could tear through these guys what does that say about Tunney?

Definitely not an act of just praise for Dempsey but hidden self-praise. It's a his own self-interest to say this.

[janitor]

Not even the great Ali?? I would have giving Ali a great shot at doing it imo.

If anybody is going to do it, it is going to be a finisher who will not have to go as many rounds.

Think Langford, Dempsey, Louis, Tyson and a lot of luck.

[PetethePrince]

I think Ali in the 1960's, relly belive he could have done it, if he COULD do it is other question, but Ali was pretty great in the 60's when he beat Williams. I shock people ant saying that Ali would do it.


What's getting passed around at Christmas at your house?

[Dempsey1238]

What's getting passed around at Christmas at your house?

Wine.

[GregDempsey]

I think Ali in the 1960's, relly belive he could have done it, if he COULD do it is other question, but Ali was pretty great in the 60's when he beat Williams. I shock people ant saying that Ali would do it.

ali would not take those guys out that fast...he would not take out rocky in one even if ali was freash and rocky had just fought 3 fights...i think ali beats rocky..but not in one...i know...you got the liston fight...but really liston was up...it was more a matter of walcott screwing up the count

[GregDempsey]

Sure about that?? He relly belive that Dempsey would smash though Charles, Walcott and Marciano in less than ten rounds.

I think Tunney belive in his own words. I pretty sure 1960's Ali would belive he could do it.


i have seen different clips of ali talking about fighting rocky< of course he said he would win< but he also said it would have been a hard fight>>> no
one round ko

[GregDempsey]

Tunney also felt George Foreman was an amatuer and that Dempsey would have beaten Ali

Well, young foreman was like a amatuer, big strong freak of nature, but his skills sucked in many ways.