Classic's take on drug testing situation [Archive]

OBCboxer

12-25-2009, 05:23 PM

Posted it here to avoid all of the biased posting.

In my opinion, Pacquiao has something to hide by not agreeing to take the drug tests. Mayweather has agreed to take the same drug tests as Pacquiao. The excuse is that Pacquiao is afraid of needles. If he's afraid of needles then how did he get those tatoos? Now that Pacquiao is looking like he has something to hide, he runs behind his attorneys and sues Mayweather for defamation. Well if you don't want to be wrongly accused of taking PED's then take the test to prove to you aren't. He just looks more suspicious by hiding behind Bob Arum.

What's your take on this?

Shake

12-25-2009, 05:28 PM

I think you should look for threads before starting new ones.

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OBCboxer

12-25-2009, 06:52 PM

I think you should look for threads before starting new ones.

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Let's not get all defensive here. It's Christmas.

MRBILL

12-25-2009, 07:14 PM

Shit... I spotted Manolo Pacquiao as a juicer back around 2007 when he was building up to 135-140 pounds.... I'm certain he's guilty......... NOBODY goes from 112 to 145 pounds and be all RIPPED muscle without roiding up big time....

I saw this scam years ago in the early to middle 90s with Vincent Pazienza.... After his 1990 loss to Hector Camacho at 140 pounds, V.P. was a muscular 154 pounder by late 1991 when he beat Gilbert Dele for the WBA title prior to breaking his neck....... Yeah, like he was clean........ NOT!!

Shannon Briggs is another obvious juicer....... He's way too big, ripped and heavy......

Evander Holyfield / Evan Fields........ C'MON!!! The juice is loose there..... Or it was for many years....

Utter Scandalosity.....

MR.BILL:fire:deal:admin:twisted::shock:

robert ungurean

12-25-2009, 07:17 PM

I for one think hes clean.

MRBILL

12-25-2009, 07:25 PM

I for one think hes clean.

Yeah, and Michael Jackson died from natural causes.?.?:patsch

Manolo Pacquiao is my little dude to cheer for these days, but I sense the little bastard is making too much money and being catered to way TOO HARD and its going to his head...... He's guilty....... Screw the legal paperwork crap, use your own two eyes and gut feeling......

MR.BILL:hat
:yikes

PetethePrince

12-25-2009, 07:35 PM

Let's not get all defensive here. It's Christmas.

:lol:

Good point. Shake gets a bit testy sometimes.

punchy

12-25-2009, 07:37 PM

Shake

12-26-2009, 12:14 AM

I apologise. :?

:thumbsup

Gesta

12-26-2009, 12:34 AM

I think that Pacman should not give in to Floyd. What is Floyd going to demand next?

If Floyd won't fight then Pacman should fight the winner of SSM & Berto.

OBCboxer

12-26-2009, 01:23 AM

:lol:

Good point. Shake gets a bit testy sometimes.

:lol:

OBCboxer

12-26-2009, 01:24 AM

I apologise. :?

:thumbsup

It's good. I didn't see it. It probably wasn't bumped in a while.

Bummy Davis

12-26-2009, 10:18 AM

Pac Man should not change protocal for Floyd...Floyd is looking for any edge...I think Floyd is worried about Manny ...I thought Floyd would win but now I think Pac Man may be able to do a Tszu/Judah on him

PowerPuncher

12-26-2009, 10:51 AM

The fight will happen, too much money for it not to happen and neither man has pulled out.

I always thought since hes been at 130lbs Pacquaio maybe on something. His remarkably low bodyfat, muscularity, phenomenal speed and strength were something a little unatainable. Then there was the fact he would drain 17lbs of bodyweight without being particularly drained. It could just be great genetics and training but I wouldnt be suprised if it wasnt

Going from 122-147 isnt quite as unusual as it may seem given Pac was massive at 122-130 and usually cut 10-17lbs of water to make weight. But he does still gain 5-10lbs of muscle quite quickly while keeping a low bodyfat and cutting water.

Not agreeing to random testing is very very suspicious. Cheaters can easily manipulate planned tests, they cant manipulate random tests anything like as easily

Seamus

12-26-2009, 12:37 PM

Mayweather obviously knows something we don't and is trying to make it a clean fight, I don't care about Manny's problems with needles that sounds like the biggest load of crap and certainly not a reason to scrap a fight.

No, Mayweather has made an accusation offering no proof. Manny has been put in the position of having to prove himself innocent without any evidence of him being guilty in the first place. Anyone can talk shit. However, sometimes it gets called slander and you have to pay for it.

john garfield

12-26-2009, 01:02 PM

PowerPuncher

12-26-2009, 01:13 PM

THIS IS THE BOTTOM LINE, S.

Without a smoking gun, Money pays BIG TIME for slander, considering the damage to Pac's reputation (and potential lost income). The law's clear: Hurt someone in his 'profession, trade or calling' and you pony-up and make a public retraction.

What has Mayweather Jr himself said thats slanderous? Guess what, Senior and Junior are not 1 and the same. FMJ asking fro drugs testing is not slander

PowerPuncher

12-26-2009, 01:14 PM

natonic

12-26-2009, 01:23 PM

The Morlocks

12-26-2009, 02:15 PM

I for one think hes clean.

me too and i think to put it dplomatically, that MayweATHER AND FAMILY ARE a bunch of big hairy pussies. :fire

Seamus

12-26-2009, 02:46 PM

Without properly investigating you cant get proof, Manny isn't letting anyone properly investigate him, so the truth is unknown

But this is putting the cart before the horse. He is already being investigated every fight by the standard criteria of his profession and the same criteria of his professional contemporaries. You simply can not make such damaging accusations without proof. Unless they have a smoking gun they can legally reveal, they will be paying.

PowerPuncher

12-26-2009, 02:50 PM

But this is putting the cart before the horse. He is already being investigated every fight by the standard criteria of his profession and the same criteria of his professional contemporaries. You simply can not make such damaging accusations without proof. Unless they have a smoking gun they can legally reveal, they will be paying.

The standard of drugs tests is pre=historic in boxing, we know countless boxers who have taken PEDs and escaped detection, not to mention the commision is highly corrupt and will hush up a star testing positive if a relationship with a promoter is good.

Saying Pac is a clean fighter is like saying an untested fighter is clean, we just dont know

PetethePrince

12-26-2009, 04:43 PM

No, Mayweather has made an accusation offering no proof. Manny has been put in the position of having to prove himself innocent without any evidence of him being guilty in the first place. Anyone can talk shit. However, sometimes it gets called slander and you have to pay for it.

I actually agree with this. I'm shocked classic is taking Floyd's side. Nobody is really in the wrong. Their just working out the demands and negotiations. It's part hype, too. But I don't think Manny should take a test and should re-structure the whole drug testing for this fight just because of Floyd and has father intuition. I don't buy the viability of the suing Pac is doing, though. And I don't like him for trying that as I think that hurts the fights chance even more.

At the same time, I do understand some peoples suspicion I suppose. The whole "Afraid of needles" seems like a BS response by Arum. Manny has tattoos - not wanting blood taken close from the fight is reasonable. However, the test if done should be done randomly (Although not randomly 1 day before the test).

The bottom line is that Manny doesn't need to agree and shouldn't be forced to do something based on no evidence and a few people's opinion. But if the fights to be made, some compromise must arise.

janitor

12-26-2009, 06:50 PM

I can think of some historic fighters who would surely have been acused of roiding if roids had existed back then:

Barbados Joe Walcott.

Sam Langford

Mickey Walker

Harry Greb

MRBILL

12-26-2009, 07:16 PM

I can think of some historic fighters who would surely have been acused of roiding if roids had existed back then:

Barbados Joe Walcott.

Sam Langford

Mickey Walker

Harry Greb

NAW!!!! Poor choices......... I agree these dudes were muscular for being ancient, and I know "Roids" were NOT used in the fight game prior to at least the 1960s....... BUT!!! None of the above mentioned names listed made RADICAL weight swings like Manolo Pacquiao has done without displaying pudge / fat of some form.............. Manolo Pacquiao has gone from 112 to 145 pounds over the last decade and has shown NO pudge / fat whatsoever......... Hmmmmmm.... I ain't buying that crap......... Something stinks like rotten fish here...........

MR.BILL:deal:yikes:nono:admin:rasta

salty trunks

12-26-2009, 08:00 PM

But this is putting the cart before the horse. He is already being investigated every fight by the standard criteria of his profession and the same criteria of his professional contemporaries. You simply can not make such damaging accusations without proof. Unless they have a smoking gun they can legally reveal, they will be paying.

I dont believe Floyd Jr accused Manny of anything.

Adding a blood test to a contract is no worse than adding a 10 million dollar penalty for each pound overweight. Had Manny agreed the issue would have been squashed.

Its Manny's refusal to comply which is whats making this thing take on a life of its own.

Things have only gotten worse with all these doctors stating a small tube of blood would do no harm physically to either fighter and both blood and urine is necessary to get a correct result.

Seems little Mayweather is smarter than most give him credit for. Hes succeeded in his psychological assault on Mr P's character.

Thread Stealer

12-26-2009, 08:11 PM

NAW!!!! Poor choices......... I agree these dudes were muscular for being ancient, and I know "Roids" were NOT used in the fight game prior to at least the 1960s....... BUT!!! None of the above mentioned names listed made RADICAL weight swings like Manolo Pacquiao has done without displaying pudge / fat of some form.............. Manolo Pacquiao has gone from 112 to 145 pounds over the last decade and has shown NO pudge / fat whatsoever......... Hmmmmmm.... I ain't buying that crap......... Something stinks like rotten fish here...........

MR.BILL:deal:yikes:nono:admin:rasta

I think the weight thing is overblown.

Pacquiao was 16 years old when he fought at 106 lbs, in 1995. Back in 1994, when Mayweather was a 17 year old amateur, he fought at 114. Pacquiao was 20 when he won his first world title at 112 in 1998, looked weight-drained when he lost the title to Singsurat, and jumped three divisions to 122 after that. Eleven years later after winning his first world title at 112, he's fighting at WW, 35 lbs. above flyweight. Mayweather moved up a similar amount of weight in a similar time frame. In an eleven year period from 1994 to 2005, from ages 17 to 28, Mayweather went from fighting at 114 to 147, a 33 pound increase. He's always looked shredded and cut with no visible fat either.

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He was less of a weight cutter too, he barely weighed more unofficially on fight night for his welterweight bouts against Judah and Baldomir than Pacquiao did for his final fights at 130.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Pacquiao were on something, but I don't really attribute that suspicion to his increase in weight. It's just because of the nature of pro sports, and boxing's not really strict with testing anyway. I'm always open to the possibiiity that a good number of athletes are on some illegal PED, and think it's naive to really be surprised when an athlete gets caught for using.

MRBILL

12-26-2009, 08:27 PM

I understand growth.......... I do........ BUT!!! M.P. is / has been applying lotsa' added muscle / weight to his frame since 2006....... TOO MUCH to be purely natural..... Cheers...

MR.BILL

PetethePrince

12-26-2009, 08:32 PM

I understand growth.......... I do........ BUT!!! M.P. is / has been applying lotsa' added muscle / weight to his frame since 2006....... TOO MUCH to be purely natural..... Cheers...

MR.BILL

No, that's just not true. But you're entitled to think or be suspicious. But outright lies like this is how the hysteria got overblown/created to begin with.

Muchmoore

12-26-2009, 09:34 PM

OBCboxer

12-26-2009, 09:35 PM

I actually agree with this. I'm shocked classic is taking Floyd's side. Nobody is really in the wrong. Their just working out the demands and negotiations. It's part hype, too. But I don't think Manny should take a test and should re-structure the whole drug testing for this fight just because of Floyd and has father intuition. I don't buy the viability of the suing Pac is doing, though. And I don't like him for trying that as I think that hurts the fights chance even more.

At the same time, I do understand some peoples suspicion I suppose. The whole "Afraid of needles" seems like a BS response by Arum. Manny has tattoos - not wanting blood taken close from the fight is reasonable. However, the test if done should be done randomly (Although not randomly 1 day before the test).

The bottom line is that Manny doesn't need to agree and shouldn't be forced to do something based on no evidence and a few people's opinion. But if the fights to be made, some compromise must arise.

I agree with this. But he looks awfully suspicious to me. If he truly had nothing to hide then hewould take those tests. It's not about him n ot wanting to fight, he has something to hide.

PetethePrince

12-26-2009, 09:49 PM

I agree with this. But he looks awfully suspicious to me. If he truly had nothing to hide then hewould take those tests. It's not about him n ot wanting to fight, he has something to hide.

Yes, but maybe Manny wants to more then we think. Yet his team feels the need to protect him. That's what happens during negotiations. I think it's a little unreasonable to ask Pac to have blood taken a day before the fight. This limitation or superstition, whether true or not should be respected by Floyd's team. That seems to be fair.

Floyd gave up on the Olympic team testing for it. Now Nevada probably is going to. Seems Arum is backpedaling on the "We will test for blood randomly if it's done by another agency." Funny enough, Nevada doesn't do this usually. So he seems to be trying to go on this angle.

We shall see how the rest pans out.

OBCboxer

12-26-2009, 09:53 PM

Yes, but maybe Manny wants to more then we think. Yet his team feels the need to protect him. That's what happens during negotiations. I think it's a little unreasonable to ask Pac to have blood taken a day before the fight. This limitation or superstition, whether true or not should be respected by Floyd's team. That seems to be fair.

How do we know Pac wants to? That's not the impression I am getting from him. Mayweather is going through the same tests.

Floyd gave up on the Olympic team testing for it. Now Nevada probably is going to. Seems Arum is backpedaling on the "We will test for blood randomly if it's done by another agency." Funny enough, Nevada doesn't do this usually. So he seems to be trying to go on this angle.

We shall see how the rest pans out.

I just want to see this fight already!

PetethePrince

12-26-2009, 09:55 PM

How do we know Pac wants to? That's not the impression I am getting from him. Mayweather is going through the same tests.

Well we don't, but naturally it's normal for his team to try getting the upper hand in negotiations. Arum & Roach aren't dumb. However, Pac is willing to do all tests. Just not to close to the fight. He has said this. I think that should be respected.

I just want to see this fight already!

I'm with you man. This is going to do huge numbers! I'm so happy to read that May is letting up some room for compromise. Hopefully we see the same out of Pac's team.

OBCboxer

12-26-2009, 10:10 PM

Well we don't, but naturally it's normal for his team to try getting the upper hand in negotiations. Arum & Roach aren't dumb. However, Pac is willing to do all tests. Just not to close to the fight. He has said this. I think that should be respected.

I'm with you man. This is going to do huge numbers! I'm so happy to read that May is letting up some room for compromise. Hopefully we see the same out of Pac's team.

Mayweather is not as bad as people think he is you know.

JohnThomas1

12-27-2009, 12:05 AM

Is this the latest

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PetethePrince

12-27-2009, 12:26 AM

Mayweather is not as bad as people think he is you know.

I know.

kartog

12-27-2009, 03:38 AM

What has Mayweather Jr himself said thats slanderous? Guess what, Senior and Junior are not 1 and the same. FMJ asking fro drugs testing is not slander
Have'nt you heard the Rugged Man interview with Floyd Jr?

laxpdx

12-27-2009, 03:50 AM

DelaHoya made it pretty clear by saying if Pac isn't guilty, he has nothing to worry about.

lefthook31

12-27-2009, 07:56 AM

Floyd may be in a whole heap of trouble now. He needs this fight badly.

Bokaj

12-27-2009, 09:58 AM

This is a first for me, but I actually side with Mayweather on this issue. First of all, the "fear of needles" thing from a guy with tatoos is laughable and suspicious. Secondly, if you have nothing to hide just take the tests. Finally, I don't personally care if it's slander. This is something that could overall benefit the sport long term.

I think I'm with you here. Mayweather has hurt himself by his tendency to make demands before fights, though. But in the end I think Pac should look to dispel all doubts. Too bad it doesn't looks like he will.

Gesta

12-27-2009, 11:05 PM

Floyd is the son of Leonard.

I am still cut that Leonard has the "win" (could have gone either way) over Hagler, I think that Hagler should have not of given in to all of Leonard's demands esp' being held over 12 rounds instead of 15 rounds, maybe Hagler would have got the win maybe the result would have been the same, who knows.

Now we have Floyd making all these demands on Pacman. If Floyd does not want to fight Pacman should fight SSM\Berto\Bradley etc... and let Floyd please himself. What did he come out of "retirement" to fight JMM?

Fuck all these fighters picking who and when to fight (or not) some one, for me if one fighter duck's another he has lost that match up and the other fighter gains some points for being ducked eg' Lewis VS Bowe. Lewis gets some points (not a win) and Bowe loses some points (not a loss). Most of the time it is very hard to see who is the ducker and who did the ducking, but in the case of Lewis and Bowe, they agreed to fight and one backed out.

Why should fighters like SSM lose when they are the ones willing to take the hard fights, Forest\ Winky when most of the other fighters will not and fighters like Floyd gain from their ducking (above LW)?

Seamus

12-28-2009, 12:10 AM

Floyd looks to be ducking Paq. This whole thing is a ruse. There is no time between the last scheduled test Paq agreed to and the fight post test for him to run a cycle and get clean. Total bullshit.

kartog

12-28-2009, 01:57 AM

Because Floyd father and son tagteam ran their mouths off accusing PacMan of using PEDs now PacMan is obliged to prove he is clean?

When wasn't he clean to begin with?

Because he has a chiseled physique, which he had ever since he started boxing, he's doing HGH?

Because Floyd Sr laid the groundwork for average boxing people to have "doubts", PacMan has to kowtow to whatever tests Jr comes up with?

Because all the things PacMan has done trumps Floyd Jr's career, and because it does, there's no way it has been done on the level, unless PacMan proves otherwise?

See the rationale behind all these?

Sweet Pea

12-28-2009, 01:58 AM

Man, I am tearing it up hardcore in the General Forum right now guys, you should take a look.

PetethePrince

12-28-2009, 02:06 AM

Man, I am tearing it up hardcore in the General Forum right now guys, you should take a look.

I've seen. I had a sneaking suspicion you've been joking around & being sarcastic, but your persistence has made me think otherwise. Was my initial thoughts correct?

Sweet Pea

12-28-2009, 02:09 AM

I've seen. I had a sneaking suspicion you've been joking around & being sarcastic, but your persistence has made me think otherwise. Was my initial thoughts correct?
I'm looking for more of a rise than anything. The whole situation is lame, but I can't say for certain if Pacquiao is on roids or not. I just hope the fight gets made. If not, the blame is on Pacquiao in my book. I'm just taking it overboard in the General Forum.

sauhund II

12-28-2009, 02:17 AM

Floyd looks to be ducking Paq. This whole thing is a ruse. There is no time between the last scheduled test Paq agreed to and the fight post test for him to run a cycle and get clean. Total bullshit.
While I respect your posts in general and see eye to eye most of the time you are way off or have very limited knowledgs about PEO's..................cycling is the KEY here. If you know the date you can EXACTLY time the athlete when he is clean . Fact not fiction. Doping is a MAJOR business who attracts the brighest minds because of the challenge to make it UNDECTECABLE aka be one smarter than any testing agency. Remember , for example, if someone develops a 100 % secure code you can bet your ass that someone as gifted or talented will try to break it.....and they usually do.

IMO, the fight will be made, too much dough on the line but one thing is for sure if Pac agrees to the random blood tests shows up trim/fit but soft and not overly mascular plus having a hard time coming close to the contracted weight then the answer will be right there for everybody to see.

Thread Stealer

12-28-2009, 02:56 AM

Man, I am tearing it up hardcore in the General Forum right now guys, you should take a look.

I'll read it, it should be amusing.

I try not to argue too much in this whole debate on general forum. It's nauseating what people will say to defend their man-crushes.

PetethePrince

12-28-2009, 03:15 AM

I'm looking for more of a rise than anything. The whole situation is lame, but I can't say for certain if Pacquiao is on roids or not. I just hope the fight gets made. If not, the blame is on Pacquiao in my book. I'm just taking it overboard in the General Forum.

I see, yea I'm pretty pissed. Hopefully Paulie makes an example of Pac. :lol:

divac

12-28-2009, 03:54 AM

What has Mayweather Jr himself said thats slanderous? Guess what, Senior and Junior are not 1 and the same. FMJ asking fro drugs testing is not slander

Thats the bottom line my friend......it was Sr. who said he "suspected"......can you sue someone for slander for stating a proffesional opinion about a sport that you know something about??????

......and as of right now, I have yet to see Mayweather Jr. himself speak that he thinks Pacquiao is doping.

John Garfield, I understand if you dont want to offer an opinion, but dont you believe that its making Pacquiao look bad by refusing to have a little blood drawn.
Pacquiao was already under suspicioun before any Mayweather was even in the picture.
If he's clean, he'd sure save himself alot of trouble and stress by just agreeing to the tests, and then going out and royally putting a beatdown on Mayweather Jr.

......if Pacquiao could do that, it would be the ultimate satisfaction for himself and all his Pinoy fans.

The first reports from the Pacquiao camp were that they did'nt want Pacquiao weakened for the fight by having blood drawn from him so close to the fight date.
.....but now that Mayweather is willing for the window of no testing within 5 days before the fight, all of a sudden Pacquiao's excuse is as weak as I've ever seen a weak excuse be given out.....Pacquiao is claiming now he wont go closer than that 30 day window because he feels having blood drawn from him past that window will effect him mentally!
......all of s sudden physically weakened is being replaced with mentally weakened.:patsch
.......you really cant get any weaker excuse than that.
Of course Manny is going to feel weaker, and its going to go way further than mentally if indeed he's been juicing all along.

There are just some weak arguments coming from the Pacquiao side I'm afraid.