Hilario Zapata Discussion

[GPater11093]

Just been watching some Zapata recently.

I really like Zapata he has that smooth Panamanian rythm coupled with a great all round style. Obviously his height makes him a very hard opponent but he has alot of dimensions he is probably most similar to Whittaker but even then they are vastly different.
He is mainly known as a defensive fighter and he definitly was slick either moving away or coming forward. What i liked was the way he kept his hands in the correct position for blocking and parrying at all times which is rare in a fighter like that, which use their reflexes
His jab is brillaint and it is the basis of his offence. His combinations were also class as he really did mix them up and had great variety working head and body equally. His straight left however accentuated his combinations as it was the kingpin or anchor of his combination always looking to let a sting straight to the chin off.

How do you guys rate Zapata? I dont know too mcuh about him i have just seen some footage i dont about his record etc...

Basically just tell me what you think about him.

[smitty_son408]

Top 5 light flyweight, had great size and length for the division, which showed when he would flick out his effective, long jab. Didn't have the overall game that Yuh Myung Woo had and I believe he would have lost to Woo and Gushiken H2H. The thrashing he took at the hands of Chang in the rematch was something to behold though Zapata probably was past his peak at the time.

[Mantequilla]

One of god's own prototypes...an unpredictable maniac who was one of the best defensive fighters and slick stylists of all-time.Probably Heresy to some and not entirely relevant, but Pep would need to be exponentially better pre-plane crash to be a better defensive fighter than him imo.


Not many fighters would ever outbox zapata in the strict textbook sense of the word.His main problem was his unpredictable mentality...he's another fighter who couldn't be relied on to give 100%, though he did well to come back from a mid-career slump.

The main thing that holds him back from being a true great in my eyes was he didn't do enough against Laciar and Bassa, despite seemingly being the more talented fighter, they obviously wanted it more and were able to gain debatable decisions over him.A lot of great defensive fighters had that flaw at times, a certain stubborness to adapt if it became apparent they couldn't do their usual coasting and out-finessing of opponents.

Marlon Starling is probably the biggest perpetrator there.

Most of Zapata's other losses are either understandable or fairly irrelevant.The Ursua KO loss was an embarassing fuck up for sure, but i don't hold it against him too much.Ursua was a huge puncher and Zapata paid for his overconfidence.


Also, though Chang was awesome in the rematch, i don't see why it's often getting referred to as a demolition job/blowout.Zapata could have possibly come back from that bad round had he gritted his teeth, but he flat out quit in the same manner as Duran.terrible trouble making light fly and jailtime prior to the fight surely didn't help, but he cheated the fans in that fight.


I'd make him favourite over Yuh and Gushiken, though he'd need to be at or near his best to be assured of the win.Yuh doesn't have the tools imo, especially against the more aggressive version of zapata, and Gushiken was too patient and methodical...Zapata would be at least as tough to figure out as Alfonso Lopez, with far more formidable pjysical tools.He would need a KO to win more often than not.

i also think zapata often seriously underused his jab.IF he had got it going consistently from fight to fight,like an Ohba, Whitaker, Buchanan etc...he would have been an absolute monster.

[Addie]

One of god's own prototypes...an unpredictable maniac who was one of the best defensive fighters and slick stylists of all-time.Probably Heresy to some and not entirely relevant, but Pep would need to be exponentially better pre-plane crash to be a better defensive fighter than him imo.


Not many fighters would ever outbox zapata in the strict textbook sense of the word.His main problem was his unpredictable mentality...he's another fighter who couldn't be relied on to give 100%, though he did well to come back from a mid-career slump.

The main thing that holds him back from being a true great in my eyes was he didn't do enough against Laciar and Bassa, despite seemingly being the more talented fighter, they obviously wanted it more and were able to gain debatable decisions over him.A lot of great defensive fighters had that flaw at times, a certain stubborness to adapt if it became apparent they couldn't do their usual coasting and out-finessing of opponents.

Marlon Starling is probably the biggest perpetrator there.

Most of Zapata's other losses are either understandable or fairly irrelevant.The Ursua KO loss was an embarassing fuck up for sure, but i don't hold it against him too much.Ursua was a huge puncher and Zapata paid for his overconfidence.


Also, though Chang was awesome in the rematch, i don't see why it's often getting referred to as a demolition job/blowout.Zapata could have possibly come back from that bad round had he gritted his teeth, but he flat out quit in the same manner as Duran.terrible trouble making light fly and jailtime prior to the fight surely didn't help, but he cheated the fans in that fight.


I'd make him favourite over Yuh and Gushiken, though he'd need to be at or near his best to be assured of the win.Yuh doesn't have the tools imo, especially against the more aggressive version of zapata, and Gushiken was too patient and methodical...Zapata would be at least as tough to figure out as Alfonso Lopez, with far more formidable pjysical tools.He would need a KO to win more often than not.

i also think zapata often seriously underused his jab.IF he had got it going consistently from fight to fight,like an Ohba, Whitaker, Buchanan etc...he would have been an absolute monster.

What tools are required to overcome Zapata that you feel Myung-Woo Yuh was missing?

[Sweet Pea]

Top 5 light flyweight, had great size and length for the division, which showed when he would flick out his effective, long jab. Didn't have the overall game that Yuh Myung Woo had and I believe he would have lost to Woo and Gushiken H2H. The thrashing he took at the hands of Chang in the rematch was something to behold though Zapata probably was past his peak at the time.He was a dead man walking the in Chang rematch, having just gotten out if jail with hardly any time to train or drain to make weight, which was already a huge problem for him. Immediately after this fight he moved all the way up to Bantam before moving back down to Flyweight for good, which just goes to show how strenuous the weight-making process was for him.

I think Zapata would've beaten Yuh pretty wide on the cards, so long as he was in proper condition. Chang, for obvious reasons, is the only fighter below Flyweight I'd favor over a primed Zapata. Lopez is about 50/50 in my eyes, again depending on what condition Zapata showed up in, because I could certainly see Lopez landing the lights out blow if he started to coast at an unnecessary time.

[sweet_scientist]

Hanged with some excellent fighters despite an anemic offense, which goes to show what a great defensive fighter he was.

My favourite fight of his is the German Torres fight. One of his select few offensive masterworks where he made a very good Jose Luis Ramirezesque fighter look ordinary.

[GPater11093]

One of god's own prototypes...an unpredictable maniac who was one of the best defensive fighters and slick stylists of all-time.Probably Heresy to some and not entirely relevant, but Pep would need to be exponentially better pre-plane crash to be a better defensive fighter than him imo.


Not many fighters would ever outbox zapata in the strict textbook sense of the word.His main problem was his unpredictable mentality...he's another fighter who couldn't be relied on to give 100%, though he did well to come back from a mid-career slump.

The main thing that holds him back from being a true great in my eyes was he didn't do enough against Laciar and Bassa, despite seemingly being the more talented fighter, they obviously wanted it more and were able to gain debatable decisions over him.A lot of great defensive fighters had that flaw at times, a certain stubborness to adapt if it became apparent they couldn't do their usual coasting and out-finessing of opponents.

Marlon Starling is probably the biggest perpetrator there.

Most of Zapata's other losses are either understandable or fairly irrelevant.The Ursua KO loss was an embarassing fuck up for sure, but i don't hold it against him too much.Ursua was a huge puncher and Zapata paid for his overconfidence.


Also, though Chang was awesome in the rematch, i don't see why it's often getting referred to as a demolition job/blowout.Zapata could have possibly come back from that bad round had he gritted his teeth, but he flat out quit in the same manner as Duran.terrible trouble making light fly and jailtime prior to the fight surely didn't help, but he cheated the fans in that fight.


I'd make him favourite over Yuh and Gushiken, though he'd need to be at or near his best to be assured of the win.Yuh doesn't have the tools imo, especially against the more aggressive version of zapata, and Gushiken was too patient and methodical...Zapata would be at least as tough to figure out as Alfonso Lopez, with far more formidable pjysical tools.He would need a KO to win more often than not.

i also think zapata often seriously underused his jab.IF he had got it going consistently from fight to fight,like an Ohba, Whitaker, Buchanan etc...he would have been an absolute monster.

Thanks for that, Zapata from what i have seen used his jab fairly well and often against Olivo he dominated him and looked like the second coming, he really was class.

He was a dead man walking the in Chang rematch, having just gotten out if jail with hardly any time to train or drain to make weight, which was already a huge problem for him. Immediately after this fight he moved all the way up to Bantam before moving back down to Flyweight for good, which just goes to show how strenuous the weight-making process was for him.

I think Zapata would've beaten Yuh pretty wide on the cards, so long as he was in proper condition. Chang, for obvious reasons, is the only fighter below Flyweight I'd favor over a primed Zapata. Lopez is about 50/50 in my eyes, again depending on what condition Zapata showed up in, because I could certainly see Lopez landing the lights out blow if he started to coast at an unnecessary time.

Alphonso Lopez?

Hanged with some excellent fighters despite an anemic offense, which goes to show what a great defensive fighter he was.

My favourite fight of his is the German Torres fight. One of his select few offensive masterworks where he made a very good Jose Luis Ramirezesque fighter look ordinary.

Ill have to check out the Torres fight.

[WhataRock]

Reckon he means Finito Gpate.

[Flea Man]

One of god's own prototypes...an unpredictable maniac who was one of the best defensive fighters and slick stylists of all-time.Probably Heresy to some and not entirely relevant, but Pep would need to be exponentially better pre-plane crash to be a better defensive fighter than him imo.


Not many fighters would ever outbox zapata in the strict textbook sense of the word.His main problem was his unpredictable mentality...he's another fighter who couldn't be relied on to give 100%, though he did well to come back from a mid-career slump.

The main thing that holds him back from being a true great in my eyes was he didn't do enough against Laciar and Bassa, despite seemingly being the more talented fighter, they obviously wanted it more and were able to gain debatable decisions over him.A lot of great defensive fighters had that flaw at times, a certain stubborness to adapt if it became apparent they couldn't do their usual coasting and out-finessing of opponents.

Marlon Starling is probably the biggest perpetrator there.

Most of Zapata's other losses are either understandable or fairly irrelevant.The Ursua KO loss was an embarassing fuck up for sure, but i don't hold it against him too much.Ursua was a huge puncher and Zapata paid for his overconfidence.


Also, though Chang was awesome in the rematch, i don't see why it's often getting referred to as a demolition job/blowout.Zapata could have possibly come back from that bad round had he gritted his teeth, but he flat out quit in the same manner as Duran.terrible trouble making light fly and jailtime prior to the fight surely didn't help, but he cheated the fans in that fight.


I'd make him favourite over Yuh and Gushiken, though he'd need to be at or near his best to be assured of the win.Yuh doesn't have the tools imo, especially against the more aggressive version of zapata, and Gushiken was too patient and methodical...Zapata would be at least as tough to figure out as Alfonso Lopez, with far more formidable pjysical tools.He would need a KO to win more often than not.

i also think zapata often seriously underused his jab.IF he had got it going consistently from fight to fight,like an Ohba, Whitaker, Buchanan etc...he would have been an absolute monster.

Very good and informative post.

For me, I went into the 2nd Chang fight thinking I was gonna see a shell of a fighter, as Sweet pea had said so.

But I fought Zapata started well, he seemed focused. Chang starts to get on top and the Ref gives Zapata a standing count, Zapata should've taken it as a blessing and took some respite.

Instead, I feel after the first gruelling match, Zapata probably thought the kid had had a good night. This time, faced with it again he thought 'fuck going through this for another 15 rounds I'm outta here':lol:

[GPater11093]

Reckon he means Finito Gpate.

oh yeh, coulnt think of another Lopez :patsch

Zapata is definitly one of the best defensive fighters i have seen and one of my favrouites but I dont think he is as good as Pep but his defence is more multi-faceted as he slipped, blockes, parried and moved all done excellantly and its rare you see that in a fighter with the rader and reflexes of Zapata.

I'm definitly goign to watch some more Zapata as I am tall at my weight and am quite defensive and Zapata is pretty technically correct despite ebing unorthodox at times.

[Mantequilla]

What tools are required to overcome Zapata that you feel Myung-Woo Yuh was missing?


Nothing really in particular, more a case of everything needing to be up a notch or two.I still wouldn't count out a close fight though.Zaptata's physical advantages would be really tough for Yuh imo.

[Mantequilla]

Hanged with some excellent fighters despite an anemic offense, which goes to show what a great defensive fighter he was.

My favourite fight of his is the German Torres fight. One of his select few offensive masterworks where he made a very good Jose Luis Ramirezesque fighter look ordinary.

How do you see Torres doing against Carbajal and Chiquita.i've often thought he's underrated in comparison and could be be a good bet for the upset against both.

He's not as good technically, but that chin, steady relentless pressure and will to win, with excellent power could overwhelm both.

[sweet_scientist]

How do you see Torres doing against Carbajal and Chiquita.i've often thought he's underrated in comparison and could be be a good bet for the upset against both.

He's not as good technically, but that chin, steady relentless pressure and will to win, with excellent power could overwhelm both.

I'm not sure I'd make him favourite against either Mante, but if he did beat either I wouldn't in the least be surprised. He's not far from their level all things considered, and I think he'd likely take a fight off them in a series at the very least. I can definitely see him knocking Chiquita out in particular.

[GPater11093]

Watched Zapata vs Crawford and im still impressed although he kinda coasted in the late rounds.

He was definitly one of the most complete fighters ever around teh time of the Olivo and Crawford fights IMO. He could do everything the guys a god.

When would you guys say was his peak fights from ... to ....

[Mantequilla]

I like the second Nakajima, Tomori and Vorasingh fights.Nakajima was a very capable tidy boxer-puncher and may have had some success as champ himself were it not for Zapata.I don't think you can go wrong with zapata at junior Fly, other than the Ursua and Chang rematch shockers.

[GPater11093]

I like the second Nakajima, Tomori and Vorasingh fights.Nakajima was a very capable tidy boxer-puncher and may have had some success as champ himself were it not for Zapata.I don't think you can go wrong with zapata at junior Fly, other than the Ursua and Chang rematch shockers.

ok thanks for that

He had a great run at Light Flyweight didnt he?

Would you say hes one of the most complete fighters ever?

[Mantequilla]

Nah, he's got little power.I always struggle to rate light punchers as complete fighters personally.

I wouldn't agree with sweet that he had an anemic offense though.he had good offensive tools imo, but didn't employ them enough for my liking.

[GPater11093]

Nah, he's got little power.I always struggle to rate light punchers as complete fighters personally.

I wouldn't agree with sweet that he had an anemic offense though.he had good offensive tools imo, but didn't employ them enough for my liking.

Really i think he is technically very complete, his lack of power costs him but I think he makes up for it in other ways IMO. You will find a lot of technically complete fighters have a lack of power and need to make up for it.

I'm not sure what aneamic meant so i left it. I think Zapata has a brilliant offence ,but in essence he was a counter puncher. His combinations were really sharp and accurate and varied. But like you say he lacked power.

[sweet_scientist]

Nah, he's got little power.I always struggle to rate light punchers as complete fighters personally.

I wouldn't agree with sweet that he had an anemic offense though.he had good offensive tools imo, but didn't employ them enough for my liking.

His anemic offense lies in the fact that he didn't employ his offense enough mante, so I don't think we're really saying different things. I acknowledge he had good technique and could throw excellent punches. Problem is he didn't do it enough.

[Titan1]

Would have love to see him get his revenge against Ursua.

[GPater11093]

Nah, he's got little power.I always struggle to rate light punchers as complete fighters personally.

I wouldn't agree with sweet that he had an anemic offense though.he had good offensive tools imo, but didn't employ them enough for my liking.

I watched afew fights, and Zapata aint a massive puncher, he is a light hitter but he is very sharp puncher IMO and can shake people up with well placed straight lefts.

[lora]

he can surprise with his accuracy for sure, but most very good technical fighters can do so at times.

I don't think he had the mentality to be called a complete fighter really.Not mean enough.He had the tools to fight really well with a higher output and more aggressively, which lead to some of his better performances, but didn't do it enough.

[GPater11093]

he can surprise with his accuracy for sure, but most very good technical fighters can do so at times.

I don't think he had the mentality to be called a complete fighter really.Not mean enough.He had the tools to fight really well with a higher output and more aggressively, which lead to some of his better performances, but didn't do it enough.

Agree completly. As you can guess I am some what of a fan of his, I think he is frustrating to watch as he has everything and show moments of absoloute pure genius, then shut off immediatly after it.

On his accuracy I think it is his fight with Hozumi, where he drops Hozumi with an amazing left cross, just punch perfect.

[lora]

I'm a big fan too. He's one of boxing's own freakish prototypes, though he would almost certainly have been bested by the might of Kalule.;)

[GPater11093]

I'm a big fan too. He's one of boxing's own freakish prototypes, though he would almost certainly have been bested by the might of Kalule.;)

I'll definitly need to watch more Kalule, all I have seen is the Leonard bout, which IMO is one of Leonard's best performances, specifically offensivly.

[lora]

How did you score the Zapata Bassa fights, G?.


I've been meaning to get around to watching both again, and properly scoring them.

[GPater11093]

How did you score the Zapata Bassa fights, G?.


I've been meaning to get around to watching both again, and properly scoring them.

Aint seen them. Probably should.

I have seen of Zapata

Chang I
Olivo
Crawford
Hozumi
Torres
Lacier
Moon

[El Bujia]

Both fights were close, but I thought Zapata edged the rematch with his better ring generalship. He showed more constant, in and out lateral movement than in the first fight and didn't allow Bassa to close the distance as often to put in work inside. Then again, even in the first fight Zapata was slipping masterfully against the ropes, he just wasn't putting in a consistently strong enough effort offensively to pull it out on the cards. I didn't actually score either, just my general impressions.

I'd chime in with my overall thoughts on Zapata but they've been pretty much covered.

[El Bujia]

Aint seen them. Probably should.

I have seen of Zapata

Chang I
Olivo
Crawford
Hozumi
Torres
Lacier
Moon
His fight with Dodie Boy Penalosa is up on Youtube in decent quality. Well worth a watch. Penalosa was a very good fighter in his own right: a hard hitting southpaw boxer-puncher who really forced the best out of him. One of Bujia's most disciplined, consistent performances against a quality opponent.

[GPater11093]

His fight with Dodie Boy Penalosa is up on Youtube in decent quality. Well worth a watch. Penalosa was a very good fighter in his own right: a hard hitting southpaw boxer-puncher who really forced the best out of him. One of Bujia's most disciplined, consistent performances against a quality opponent.

Will have to seek it out, aswell as the Bassa fights. Should order some stuff from RB very soon.

From what I have seen his best allround performance was the way he broke down Joey Olivo.