Jermaine" BAD HABITS" Taylor got KO'd! why?

[at1]

Why because he had bad habits and Manny steward did not fix them. Honestly JT doesnt listen Manny tells him good stuff but they need a middle man because for some reason JT doesnt understand what manny is saying thats his JOB to Train him to his ears but he has done a PISS POOR JOB from now on jermaine will not have "BAD Intentions" But more "BAD habits" But i will quote manny on this from Hopkins vs Tarver " And mentally i dont think he will be able to hold up to other fighters" Taylor does not seem that mentally tuff and i think he is Sattered as a Man and as a Person this has effected him deeply i dont think i remmber ever seeing a fighter look so mentally shot so early after a fight...

[kg0208]

I said I was taking Pavlik because Taylor keeps that left hand so low. Someone said to me then "I have never seen Taylor drop his left hand"....think they noticed it tonight?

[brooklyn1550]

With that low left hand, eventually Pavlik was going to find the mark with a big right hand.

[Ambition_Def]

Of course. He has always been a bit clumsy. He falls in, drops his left almost all night inviting right hands. It had to be frustrating for Stewart after telling Taylor rounds in to just watch the right hand. That's all he had to do and he still couldn't get it done.

It was really only a matter of time. You can't eat that many right hands without running into a puncher who is gonna make you pay for it. Now if he had an iron chin he could get away with that. But his chin is just good, not great.

[KhanB]

I took Pavlik at the last second. I was worried that Steward would come up with a gameplan.

[Amsterdam]

I said I was taking Pavlik because Taylor keeps that left hand so low. Someone said to me then "I have never seen Taylor drop his left hand"....think they noticed it tonight?

And he can't keep poise under pressure for shit, not to mention his terrible defence. It was an easy fight to predict, the only time Taylor even had a significant advantage were the KD round, which broke Pavlik's nose and then the two rounds after it when Pavlik was tenative, when the heat came back on, it was all but essentially over and when Pavlik would land the right shot.

[at1]

I said I was taking Pavlik because Taylor keeps that left hand so low. Someone said to me then "I have never seen Taylor drop his left hand"....think they noticed it tonight?

hah yes funny this is whathopkins said all along but hopkins always used his jab as a range finder unlike Pavlik roy would leave his left down but would never get caught by a 1,2 because he knew it was coming and would move or counter Taylor counters a right hand landed on him with a fucking jab. many never showed him how to move from right hands its crazy... lennox said it all now he is WIDE open for clean right hands...

[kg0208]

And he can't keep poise under pressure for shit, not to mention his terrible defence. It was an easy fight to predict, the only time Taylor even had a significant advantage were the KD round, which broke Pavlik's nose and then the two rounds after it when Pavlik was tenative, when the heat came back on, it was all but essentially over and when Pavlik would land the right shot.

Actually I think if you add better head movement and more poise to Taylor, he beats Pavlik. For a while he was moving his head to the side and countering Pavliks jab. Then he stopped doing it. He was also going to the body pretty good. His offense was decent tonight.....

Someone like Kessler or Dawson takes Pavlik apart as he is certainly predictable. Taylor showed more movement tonight as well.

[fightingmajor]

Anyone can get caught and that is simply what happened. Taylor was clearly winning the fight but he got caught.

[at1]

And he can't keep poise under pressure for shit, not to mention his terrible defence. It was an easy fight to predict, the only time Taylor even had a significant advantage were the KD round, which broke Pavlik's nose and then the two rounds after it when Pavlik was tenative, when the heat came back on, it was all but essentially over and when Pavlik would land the right shot.

you 100% correct i aggree thats exactly how i felt do you bet on fights?

[at1]

Anyone can get caught and that is simply what happened. Taylor was clearly winning the fight but he got caught.

you have to be kidding me have u ever boxed before? the kid was getting hit with 3 out of 5 jabs fuck compubox and he was getting hit with right hands all night short ones and long ones.... he was down on the cards fuck hbo those judges did a bad job

[Tom_Tocca]

So Taylor must be deaf...Pat Burns must be a genius at sign language to guide Taylor to his championship...

[Ambition_Def]

Actually I think if you add better head movement and more poise to Taylor, he beats Pavlik. For a while he was moving his head to the side and countering Pavliks jab. Then he stopped doing it. He was also going to the body pretty good. His offense was decent tonight.....

Someone like Kessler or Dawson takes Pavlik apart as he is certainly predictable. Taylor showed more movement tonight as well.

Yea but you gotta say that Pavlik has a good chance at dropping Calzaghe. Kessler is far more responsible defensively so I'm not sure there. But yea Calzage is known to get wild sometimes.

This fight wouldn't look anything like the Lacy fight. No short left hooks to dodge this time. That right hand would be coming from a long ways away.

[Longhhorn71]

Whether the scores were exactly right or wrong in the 2 Hopkins fights,
B-hop never came close to starching Taylor.

Pavlik knocked him frigging out.

Has Taylor gone backwards since his winning the Title.

[1punch1nder]

taylor got no stamina.

[Brighton bomber]

Whether the scores were exactly right or wrong in the 2 Hopkins fights,
B-hop never came close to starching Taylor.

Pavlik knocked him frigging out.

Has Taylor gone backwards since his winning the Title.
Hopkins lacks Pavlik's power and was simply too drained at middleweight to sustain the workrate to grind him down. Hopkins workrate against Wright was suprising and shows how making 160lbs effected him.

I think Taylor has declined since winning the title. He was always technically rough around the edges and made many defensive errors but he has done nothing to correct that. He was able to be competitive with Hopkins by outjabbing him and keeping Hopkins at his range. But he now too often negates his advantages in height, speed and reach. His performance against Ouma was shocking. While he was always in control he looked like a novice the way he loaded up on so many wild punches.

[Vantage_West]

I said I was taking Pavlik because Taylor keeps that left hand so low. Someone said to me then "I have never seen Taylor drop his left hand"....think they noticed it tonight?well i was more worried when he threw a left hand he seemed to drop the right down to his hip:huh

now when you got a low left hand and a low right hand+facing a big big puncher=:dead

[Vantage_West]

Yea but you gotta say that Pavlik has a good chance at dropping Calzaghe. Kessler is far more responsible defensively so I'm not sure there. But yea Calzage is known to get wild sometimes.

This fight wouldn't look anything like the Lacy fight. No short left hooks to dodge this time. That right hand would be coming from a long ways away.when has calzaghe been wild?

he drops his arms or throw the sweep when he is way way away.

calzaghe is damn good defencivly always stays smart and has never put danger to his king.

anyways pavliks defence and foreward coming style will be the end of him i tell ya.

[nrgetic]

I am amazed. I watched as many of Taylors fights as I could and felt certain anyone with any brains would do the simplest of things LIFT THE LEFT HAND. It was a repeated flaw but I thought it would have been a focus in disussions during his camp. Alas not, like I said, I am amazed.

[o_money]

"Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win." Sun Tzu

I said this before the fight and its what i based my prediction on. You can't go into a training camp for a big fight looking to correct all your bad habbits. you have to have them fixed before you go into the camp so you can focus on how you are going to break your opponent down so you can enter the fight calm and confident. Taylor has heart but he wasn't confident in his victory so he made a nervous start and got too excited when he got pavlik hurt. He used up too much energy and then when he got tired he reverted back to leaning too far forward and dropping his hands. And then got caught by the wrong guy.

[El Bombasto]

Why because he had bad habits and Manny steward did not fix them. Honestly JT doesnt listen Manny tells him good stuff but they need a middle man because for some reason JT doesnt understand what manny is saying thats his JOB to Train him to his ears but he has done a PISS POOR JOB from now on jermaine will not have "BAD Intentions" But more "BAD habits" But i will quote manny on this from Hopkins vs Tarver " And mentally i dont think he will be able to hold up to other fighters" Taylor does not seem that mentally tuff and i think he is Sattered as a Man and as a Person this has effected him deeply i dont think i remmber ever seeing a fighter look so mentally shot so early after a fight...

JT sounded like a broken man in the post fight interview. He's made plenty of money and his head doesn't seem to be there anymore, maybe he should retire before he gets hurt.

[o_money]

I am amazed. I watched as many of Taylors fights as I could and felt certain anyone with any brains would do the simplest of things LIFT THE LEFT HAND. It was a repeated flaw but I thought it would have been a focus in disussions during his camp. Alas not, like I said, I am amazed.
When you get tired you revert to whatever habits are most engrained. Thinking about something takes effort thus if you have to think about something it takes effort to do but anything that is instinctive you do without effort and therefore do when you are tired. If you make holding your hand up a priority in one camp, as taylor did, by the end of the camp you will hold your hand up by thought and not by instinct because it takes more then one camp to make something instinct. Thus it was an inevitability that eventually taylor would get tired, drop his hands and get caught.

While I'm in the quoting mood Ali said it best, you can play other sports but nobody plays boxing. Well the last couple of years taylor has been playing boxing and he just paid for it.

Its too bad. I like him a lot cause he's a straight up dude.

[Brighton bomber]

when has calzaghe been wild?

he drops his arms or throw the sweep when he is way way away.

calzaghe is damn good defencivly always stays smart and has never put danger to his king.

anyways pavliks defence and foreward coming style will be the end of him i tell ya.

He was wild against Mitchell and got caught by a punch that that would KO almost anyone else cold. He was also very wild and sloppy in the second Veit fight. He does have a tendency to stand and trade too often but his chin and ability to overwhelm fighters with his aggression and workrate have saved him when he does get sloppy.

I agree Pavlik is good at what he does but much like Taylor he has many technical flaws which against a quality boxer will be his undoing. Also as he moves up in weight his advantages in size strength and power will also become less of a factor.

[o_money]

taylor got no stamina.

Yeah I wonder if his camps knows something to this affect because they've been trying to get him out the division for a while know.

[Coast]

I said I was taking Pavlik because Taylor keeps that left hand so low. Someone said to me then "I have never seen Taylor drop his left hand"....think they noticed it tonight?

Wondering when people will point out Pavlik made the exact same mistake. He never would have been dropped if he didn't bring his left back so low in the 2nd. Taylor hit him with an overhand right that he would have blocked if his left wasn't on his hip.

Pavlik has tons of potential, but he needs a world class trainer and better sparing partners. Loyalty is admirable, but his part time trainer/full time concrete paver has shown him as much as he can.

[o_money]

Wondering when people will point out Pavlik made the exact same mistake. He never would have been dropped if he didn't bring his left back so low in the 2nd. Taylor hit him with an overhand right that he would have blocked if his left wasn't on his hip.

Pavlik has tons of potential, but he needs a world class trainer and better sparing partners. Loyalty is admirable, but his part time trainer/full time concrete paver has shown him as much as he can.

Hum, I don't know I think he's got what he's got and he's going to have to live with it. He's a gun slinger and thats what he's going to have to be for now.

[Chert]

well, this is one case where power, pressure, and heart can overcome superior boxing skills. i guess we will be seeing a lot of this in the upcoming big fights.

[booklord]

Taylor's was by far the faster fighter and he can fight going backwards. Pavlik who is known for his accuracy missed with a lot of punches last night and seemed to take the worst of it whenever he backed Taylor into the corner. If it wasn't for the sheer volume of punches that Pavlik throws he would have been getting creamed on the compubox numbers. When they were fighting it out Taylor had the advantage and if the fight had gone on that way Taylor would of and should of won.

But in the later rounds Pavlik adjusted his technique and started relying more on his jab. Meanwhile Taylor was tiring himself out a lot faster than Pavlik was. (which is remarkable given the pounding Pavlik took in the 2nd) In the late rounds Pavlik started landing his jab at will. Anyone who has watched Pavlik fight knows his most devastating combo is his left jab followed by a straight right. It took down Miranda and it took down Taylor.

Oddball as it might seem once they started boxing Pavlik had the advantage because Taylor either from lack of stanima or just never having faced a bigger fighter had no answer for that jab. And behind that jab was Pavlik's right just waiting for the opportunity to do some damage.

[Longhhorn71]

Pavlik can become better...and my fellow posters have pointed out some of the areas. Better use of his jab, maybe more experience in his corner, shoring up the defense, not moving up to SuperMiddle just yet, etc.

No, he will never be a Carlos Monzon, but he is a good solid fighter with a lot of heart, and provides excitement.

Most Challengers improve 15 % when they become the Champ just on attitude alone.

Let's match him with the rest of the top challengers at MW, maybe do a Taylor rematch, and enjoy his reign no matter how long.

He is good for boxing.

[lefthook31]

I watched the fight again this morning. Seems Taylor is just not in the proper condition. He has excellent skills and speed, just doesnt see right hands to well, but all that could have been offset if he was in better condition to fight the type of fight everyone knew Pavlik would be bringing. It seemed after the second round he completely shot his load and became slower and weaker.
My suggestion is he get some real good gym fights like Im sure Pavlik has had to prepare him for a more grueling fight. Taylor to me still has more skills, its just his will was broken by a hungrier better condtioned fighter.

[Longhhorn71]

I watched the fight again this morning. Seems Taylor is just not in the proper condition. He has excellent skills and speed, just doesnt see right hands to well, but all that could have been offset if he was in better condition to fight the type of fight everyone knew Pavlik would be bringing. It seemed after the second round he completely shot his load and became slower and weaker.
My suggestion is he get some real good gym fights like Im sure Pavlik has had to prepare him for a more grueling fight. Taylor to me still has more skills, its just his will was broken by a hungrier better condtioned fighter.

Good advice "Lefthook".

[Jose FM]

I watched the fight again this morning. Seems Taylor is just not in the proper condition. He has excellent skills and speed, just doesnt see right hands to well, but all that could have been offset if he was in better condition to fight the type of fight everyone knew Pavlik would be bringing. It seemed after the second round he completely shot his load and became slower and weaker.
My suggestion is he get some real good gym fights like Im sure Pavlik has had to prepare him for a more grueling fight. Taylor to me still has more skills, its just his will was broken by a hungrier better condtioned fighter.
Bad Habits die hard. Jermain is 29, hes gotten this far with what he knew and I doubt that hell ever get that far again. Hes been fighting with these flaws for a while now so i doubt thats gonna change overnight.

[bigeddie27]

And he can't keep poise under pressure for shit, not to mention his terrible defence. It was an easy fight to predict, the only time Taylor even had a significant advantage were the KD round, which broke Pavlik's nose and then the two rounds after it when Pavlik was tenative, when the heat came back on, it was all but essentially over and when Pavlik would land the right shot.

easy fight to predict yet the odds were like 60/40 jermain. and on top of that taylor scored a knockdown and had kelly hurt. was it really that 'easy' amsterdam?

[lefthook31]

Bad Habits die hard. Jermain is 29, hes gotten this far with what he knew and I doubt that hell ever get that far again. Hes been fighting with these flaws for a while now so i doubt thats gonna change overnight.
The top level fighters sometimes have to experience something before they realize what they need to do to correct it. Lennox Lewis was spot on with his comments at the end of the fight, because hes been there. Hes been in that situation with Ray Mercer, where he was faced with a guy that wouldnt go away no matter how hard he hit him. He looked for excuses to quit in that fight, but Steward told him he needed to fight his way through it and he did. Thats when lewis was a hungry fighter with something to prove.
With Taylor, he has all the money and riches, so Pavlik had the edge over him, because he was fighting for what Taylor already has. Should make for a more interesting second fight, as Pavlik will no longer have that mental goal he had going into this one.
Either way, it was a great fight, and its nice to see a guy like Pavlik, win, hes a class act, and he deserves whatever riches he gets out of boxing, because he did it the old fashioned way, he earned it.

[lefthook31]

easy fight to predict yet the odds were like 60/40 jermain. and on top of that taylor scored a knockdown and had kelly hurt. was it really that 'easy' amsterdam?

The fight could have just as easily ended in the second round, and Pavlik would have simply been written off as an overhyped white hope. The fight still showed Taylor is the better technical fighter, he just didnt have it down deep to grind out the win. Also Smoger gave him no chance to get up, he just stopped the fight, which I found a little odd.

[Toopretty]

Two reasons...and two big mistakes he makes.. One. the damned left hand in the pocket with his head and body hunched forward that irritates the all shit out of me. Two.....and this is what I realized finally is the key to all of his problems.and why with his Power.., yes he does have power....he has not been able to KO any damned body. He is by far and in-between the worst finisher in the sport of boxing. Watching that second round is like a mystery inside of a enigma. Pavlik did nothing to avoid the onslaught but grab hold of Taylor weakly twice which gained him two 20 sec rests. While Taylor having his man ready to go or at least could of beaten him with unanswered shots until the ref called it off....just ...sat there and waited for the ref to break the clinch..twice...Taylor has a mental block that prevents his success. It was an easy win for him in the 2nd round, he made it a hard loss due to his mental state.

[the_what]

I thought this was a great Jermain Taylor though. He never had a great defense. But his offense was superb. He had the jab going and the killer right hand. It was just that Pavlik caught him in the corner and didnt let him out.

[lefthook31]

Two reasons...and two big mistakes he makes.. One. the damned left hand in the pocket with his head and body hunched forward that irritates the all shit out of me. Two.....and this is what I realized finally is the key to all of his problems.and why with his Power.., yes he does have power....he has not been able to KO any damned body. He is by far and in-between the worst finisher in the sport of boxing. Watching that second round is like a mystery inside of a enigma. Pavlik did nothing to avoid the onslaught but grab hold of Taylor weakly twice which gained him two 20 sec rests. While Taylor having his man ready to go or at least could of beaten him with unanswered shots until the ref called it off....just ...sat there and waited for the ref to break the clinch..twice...Taylor has a mental block that prevents his success. It was an easy win for him in the 2nd round, he made it a hard loss due to his mental state.

I believe the reason he couldnt finish, is because he cant fight a grueling fight. Hes not conditoned well enough, and he simply puched himself out, and never really recovered from it for the rest of the fight.

[Toopretty]

For short..Chad Dawson is not the retard..JT is the retard..Chad knows how to finish his man...Does Manny even train JT how to finish a guy off. I mean, I think he missed that meeting. If a guy hurt clinches you on wobbly legs you push the shit out of there ass and get aggressive physically. JT is an idiot. In close Pavlik would beat him upside his head and JT did nothing back..He cant fight on the inside. Manny is all wrong for JT..Manny cant train any of his fighters to do anything on the inside but hold. JT is a retard. I am sorry.

[Toopretty]

I believe the reason he couldnt finish, is because he cant fight a grueling fight. Hes not conditoned well enough, and he simply puched himself out, and never really recovered from it for the rest of the fight.
No... he had the fight..one push..one punch...pushhhhhhh...punch......I mean if a guy on wobbly legs out on his feet grabs you. And there is a minute damn near left in the round...No excuses.. in the 2nd round..how do you lose your energy in the second round...you dont have to hit him with murderous punch after punch..just hit him..with anything..he is not going to hit back and if he does it is with no power and leaves him open for big punch...JT is a retard...

[Toopretty]

spoken like a true village idiot.

Nah..your mother got that title hands down. As well as the town dumpster slut.

[Club Fighter]

Two reasons...and two big mistakes he makes.. One. the damned left hand in the pocket with his head and body hunched forward that irritates the all shit out of me. Two.....and this is what I realized finally is the key to all of his problems.and why with his Power.., yes he does have power....he has not been able to KO any damned body. He is by far and in-between the worst finisher in the sport of boxing. Watching that second round is like a mystery inside of a enigma. Pavlik did nothing to avoid the onslaught but grab hold of Taylor weakly twice which gained him two 20 sec rests. While Taylor having his man ready to go or at least could of beaten him with unanswered shots until the ref called it off....just ...sat there and waited for the ref to break the clinch..twice...Taylor has a mental block that prevents his success. It was an easy win for him in the 2nd round, he made it a hard loss due to his mental state.

Exactly. All of this "heart of a champion" that Pavlik exhibited was not present. It didn't need to be because Taylor's a dumbass who can waste over a mintue trying to land a meaningful shot on a hurt fighter that never comes. This wasn't Pavlik's heart, it was Taylor's inadequacies that got Pavlik outta the 2nd.

[Club Fighter]

For short..Chad Dawson is not the retard..JT is the retard..Chad knows how to finish his man...Does Manny even train JT how to finish a guy off. I mean, I think he missed that meeting. If a guy hurt clinches you on wobbly legs you push the shit out of there ass and get aggressive physically. JT is an idiot. In close Pavlik would beat him upside his head and JT did nothing back..He cant fight on the inside. Manny is all wrong for JT..Manny cant train any of his fighters to do anything on the inside but hold. JT is a retard. I am sorry.

Probably the best post of the day.

[Toopretty]

Exactly. All of this "heart of a champion" that Pavlik exhibited was not present. It didn't need to be because Taylor's a dumbass who can waste over a mintue trying to land a meaningful shot on a hurt fighter that never comes. This wasn't Pavlik's heart, it was Taylor's inadequacies that got Pavlik outta the 2nd.+


Man if you look at the round by round thread you see me posting and yelling like WTF are you doing JT...are you retarded JT...the guy is out as out can get. And he holds you and you just patiently sit there and let him hold you. I knew that JT was going to lose after that and in the 3rd with Pavlik still a little shaky early he just did nothing early.. Didnt test Pavlik. Mark of pure mental boxing midget with no Killer instinct.

[Club Fighter]

+


Man if you look at the round by round thread you see me posting and yelling like WTF are you doing JT...are you retarded JT...the guy is out as out can get. And he holds you and you just patiently sit there and let him hold you. I knew that JT was going to lose after that and in the 3rd with Pavlik still a little shaky early he just did nothing early.. Didnt test Pavlik. Mark of pure mental boxing midget with no Killer instinct.

Rumor has it that Jermain had an enormous amount of cash money riding on Pavlik to win the fight. Now I'm not saying that played a role on how the second round played out but, hey, you never know.

[ralphc]

Why because he had bad habits and Manny steward did not fix them. Honestly JT doesnt listen Manny tells him good stuff but they need a middle man because for some reason JT doesnt understand what manny is saying thats his JOB to Train him to his ears but he has done a PISS POOR JOB from now on jermaine will not have "BAD Intentions" But more "BAD habits" But i will quote manny on this from Hopkins vs Tarver " And mentally i dont think he will be able to hold up to other fighters" Taylor does not seem that mentally tuff and i think he is Sattered as a Man and as a Person this has effected him deeply i dont think i remmber ever seeing a fighter look so mentally shot so early after a fight...



I thought Pavlik was going to win simply because the flaws in Taylor's style play into Pavlik's strength. The worst time to drop your guard is when you are facing an opponent who can punch and who throws lots of them. Granted, Taylor has faster hands and would likely have won the fight on points if it had gone the distance, but he doesn't box well enough to avoid getting hit. The worst thing you can do is trade punches with a puncher, but that is what Taylor was doing. The reality is Pavlik was going to knock him out just as soon as he caught him with a solid hit.

[DoumB]

Good fight nonethe less

[Club Fighter]

I thought Pavlik was going to win simply because the flaws in Taylor's style play into Pavlik's strength. The worst time to drop your guard is when you are facing an opponent who can punch and who throws lots of them. Granted, Taylor has faster hands and would likely have won the fight on points if it had gone the distance, but he doesn't box well enough to avoid getting hit. The worst thing you can do is trade punches with a puncher, but that is what Taylor was doing. The reality is Pavlik was going to knock him out just as soon as he caught him with a solid hit.

Nice avatar.

[Jose FM]

Two reasons...and two big mistakes he makes.. One. the damned left hand in the pocket with his head and body hunched forward that irritates the all shit out of me. Two.....and this is what I realized finally is the key to all of his problems.and why with his Power.., yes he does have power....he has not been able to KO any damned body. He is by far and in-between the worst finisher in the sport of boxing. Watching that second round is like a mystery inside of a enigma. Pavlik did nothing to avoid the onslaught but grab hold of Taylor weakly twice which gained him two 20 sec rests. While Taylor having his man ready to go or at least could of beaten him with unanswered shots until the ref called it off....just ...sat there and waited for the ref to break the clinch..twice...Taylor has a mental block that prevents his success. It was an easy win for him in the 2nd round, he made it a hard loss due to his mental state.
I mean whatd you expect, everyone knew his flaws, and it showed in the fight. Fact is he just got by, and like i stated before the reason why he didnt face big punchers was because he was open to get caught by a puncher and was gonna be laid out, which was exactly what happened.

[Jose FM]

For short..Chad Dawson is not the retard..JT is the retard..Chad knows how to finish his man...Does Manny even train JT how to finish a guy off. I mean, I think he missed that meeting. If a guy hurt clinches you on wobbly legs you push the shit out of there ass and get aggressive physically. JT is an idiot. In close Pavlik would beat him upside his head and JT did nothing back..He cant fight on the inside. Manny is all wrong for JT..Manny cant train any of his fighters to do anything on the inside but hold. JT is a retard. I am sorry.
Wrong. Thing is... While JT is faster, speed wastes energy, and since hes not a big puncher, he had to throw alotta punches in bunches, thats why he was so spent. I mean JT couldnt stop Ouma, who was right in front of him, and couldnt stop Spinks who was stoppped by Judah at welter. So, the fact is JT is not a finisher by any means, and thats something that isnt learned since he can never do it anyway.

[Coast]

Hum, I don't know I think he's got what he's got and he's going to have to live with it. He's a gun slinger and thats what he's going to have to be for now.

I'm not talking about turning him into Pernell Whitaker, I'm talking about the type of simple adjustments that a top trainer can make (if a fighter listens and applies it). How many "undisputed" or linear champions can you name who have a trainer who lays concrete for a living.

Everyone keeps focusing on the mistakes JT made and are ignoring the mistakes KP makes, the assumption being Taylor could have fought a much better fight and Pavlik couldn't. With better training and sparing partners Pavlik could be much better.

Yes he's got what he's got and he's going to have to live with it. Which is much more talent and boxing ability than people give him credit for. I will agree with you that until he get's a better trainer he will still take way more shots than he has too.

[o_money]

Rumor has it that Jermain had an enormous amount of cash money riding on Pavlik to win the fight. Now I'm not saying that played a role on how the second round played out but, hey, you never know.


where'd ya hear this?

[bachatu]

I am amazed. I watched as many of Taylors fights as I could and felt certain anyone with any brains would do the simplest of things LIFT THE LEFT HAND. It was a repeated flaw but I thought it would have been a focus in disussions during his camp. Alas not, like I said, I am amazed.
I couldn't agree with you more. Im highly dissapointed, that dispite Manny Stewards promises of them working out all these bad habits he formed recent as a pro, he performed the same mistakes he has made in his past few fights. Even Emmanuel Steward stated in the press conference prior to the fight "no more of this or this for Jermain" as he imitaded someone limping backwards with their left hand to their hip.

Lennox Lewis pointed out all of Jermains defensive flaws throughout the fight. The question is when you have that much time to work out these issues and hours and hours in the gym and watching tapes, why, i say why would you perform the same mistakes over and over again? Why keep going to the ropes, why stay in front of the guy and why keep your left low?

All the respect to Pavlik; he showed the heart of a champion, mental toughness, and the consistency needed to win the fight. I take nothing away from him.

What is next for Jermain? My concern before this bout was that Jermain in the past has shown to be uncoachable in certain instances, where he doesnt listen to Emmanuel. I have further concerns that he may be one of those guys that when they are in the ring, they just flip a switch and all training and other advice given to them goes out the window and they end up doing what they do, regardless. How he bounces back from this loss will really show whether he was a fluke champion or a true champion. If he is a true champion, he will have to come back fight and not make those mistakes he made in this bout, even if he losses, he will earn credit if he looks good and doesn't make those common mistakes in boxing; low left, going back to the ropes, throw looping punches.