Fedor and Couture

[EL BULLY]

With all the big pride guys with only the exception of rampage sucking ass in the octagon I'm starting to think Fedor is scared of Couture and the UFC.

Don't get me wrong Fedor looked a beast in Pride but so did CroCop and Shogun.

But the way things have gone I'd bet on Couture and I never would have said that 12 months ago.

It now boils down to this Fedor HAS to fight in the UFC and win to be considered as great.

[boxingcar]

With all the big pride guys with only the exception of rampage sucking ass in the octagon I'm starting to think Fedor is scared of Couture and the UFC.

Don't get me wrong Fedor looked a beast in Pride but so did CroCop and Shogun.

But the way things have gone I'd bet on Couture and I never would have said that 12 months ago.

It now boils down to this Fedor HAS to fight in the UFC and win to be considered as great.

I hope you realise that Fedor is a human being. (like couture)
and that he actually had a life BEFORE pride fc.
Both He and Couture used to fight at the japanese org "rings".

check their stats

Couture at RINGS FROM 1999 to 2001
LOST against Mikhail Illoukhine (submited in the 1rst)
WINS against Jeremy Horn (wins by UD)
WINS against Ryushi Yanagisawa (wins by UD)
WINS against Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (wins by UD)
LOST against Valentijn Overeem (submited in the 1rst)

Fedor at RINGS FROM 2000 to 2002
WINS against Levon Lagvilava (submission in the 1rst)
WINS against Hiroya Takada (ko in the first)
WINS against Ricardo Arona (wins by UD)
LOST against Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (cut - fight is stopped after 17 seconds)
WINS against Mihail Apostolov (submission in the 1rst)
WINS against Kerry Schall (submission in the 1rst)
WINS against Renato Sobral ( wins by UD)
WINS against Ryushi Yanagisawa (wins by UD)
WINS against Lee Hasdell (submission in the 1rst)
WINS against Chris Haseman (by tko)

Fedor is not shogun. He's not rampage..not crocop..not anderson silva.
Fedor was successful BEFORE pride.
Pride fc was the icing on the cake.

Shogun already lost to Sobral in the past no?
Anderson already lost in japan several time no?
same goes for jackson , correct?
and couture too , right?...
and crocop too...remember when he was koed by randleman? (another ufc fighter).
Fedor will end couture's career.The only way couture could beat fedor is by bloody cut.
but would that be something to be proud of?
Fuck no.

If w're not counting cuts.then fedor will rape couture.
Fedor will not have a stamina problem like Crocop.
Fedor will not panic on the ground
Fedor will not get koed. (actually it could happen but not likely)

Couture will get submitted or tkoed.and the hype will instantly stop.
ALL of this , simply because Gonzaga koed a tysoned crocop.
I can't believe this shit. Gonzaga had a past too. and that guy was already tkoed by werdum (ironically).Crocop's problems are in no way , an indication of fedor's future.
same goes for shogun.or rampage..

Couture had a past too. And before the guy was overrhyped like he is today. He used to get koed by the one dimensional chuck liddell. In other words , the HW division is dominated by a past prime wrestler who's career was finished as a LHW. That's how sad ufc's hw division is today.Beating Tim sylvia is irrelevant. Sylvia is a bum. not only that , Dana White gave couture a free ticket to fight Timmy. You all remember this right? Couture never had to fight anyone and got a direct shot at the belt.

Prime Couture couldn't handle the likes of Ricco , Barnett. In the past , he lost against the likes of Enson , Overeem , Hilhoukine.

Fedor will do to the ufc what he did in rings and pride fc.
and if he doesn't , you can bump this thread and laugh all you want.

But i'll say this...
If couture wins by a Cut stoppage. Then there's truely nothing to be proud of. In terms of skills , Fedor > Couture.

[ufoalf]

With all the big pride guys with only the exception of rampage sucking ass in the octagon I'm starting to think Fedor is scared of Couture and the UFC.

Don't get me wrong Fedor looked a beast in Pride but so did CroCop and Shogun.

But the way things have gone I'd bet on Couture and I never would have said that 12 months ago.

It now boils down to this Fedor HAS to fight in the UFC and win to be considered as great.

Listen, when I heard his interview and he was talking about Couture he DID say he doesn't want to fight Couture. He also said "cause he thinks they COULD've become good friends." If anything this does NOT sound like he's scared of him.
All this bullshit bandwagon of "I'll never bet against Couture again" is retarded. He wins a couple and then gets beat. He is an epitomy of inconsistancy. The only reason I even thinks he's as great as he is, is because of the age. If the man was 30 I would not have included him in HoF.
That said, the guy is a great champion and out of all UFC fighter today I don't think there's a better champ than he. And if anyone can give a fight to Fedor its him.

[oblate]

Should be a damn good fight with Randy controlling the action early because he is capable of shutting down Fedor's judo skills with his strength and Greco Roman wrestling. But eventually I believe Fedor will sub him.
either sub him or knock him out. i'd like to see fedor do ground and pound like he used to. I miss the old fedor ground and pound game like against herring, nog etc.

[elixirvtec]

with all the upsets going on. i wouldn't be surpise if randy pull off the win.

[Irish Steel]

There is no way Randy can win. HE is just too old, and no matter what you say he is past his prime. Fedor is young(er) and hungry.

[Blaze]

There is no way Randy can win. HE is just too old, and no matter what you say he is past his prime. Fedor is young(er) and hungry.

Fedor hungry? He's already on top of the food chain.

[ufoalf]

Should be a damn good fight with Randy controlling the action early because he is capable of shutting down Fedor's judo skills with his strength and Greco Roman wrestling. But eventually I believe Fedor will sub him.

Fedor is gona fight just like Liddell. Staying in middle and punching away. If Couture is gona beat him its gona have to be an overhead right. I don't see him gettin Fedor into the cage for too long.

[Beebs]

Fedor's never really KO'd anybody besides Zulu, nobodies KO'd Randy but Chuck.

Fedor is not KO'ing Randy.

[ufoalf]

Fedor's never really KO'd anybody besides Zulu, nobodies KO'd Randy but Chuck.

Fedor is not KO'ing Randy.
Well, I wouldn't be so sure about anything really. Fedor doesn't have that many KO's cause he always goes for sub right when the opponent is folding. Zulu was one of few cases where he just started pounding away on him while the other was just laying and praying. People such as Chuck go to finish with hands. Nodody KO'ed Randy cause Randy's been facing grappling guys for several years now, not including Liddell(who he lost to twice by KO) and Sylvia(who is POS).

IMHO Fedor is going to try stay in middle and work striking avoiding gettin his back to the cage at all costs. While Randy trying to get him on the cage. Then again this seems too simple for Randy to actually use this plan. So, like i said, can never be too sure about this.

How would you think this fantasy(i know right...) fight would go?

[Beebs]

Randy in a slow paced grinder, eventual gnp stoppage.

[boxingcar]

Couture's hype has gone to such an extreme , that i bet a majority of fans would even say that couture's greco > Alexander Karelin.

It's insane. And to think that 90% of you were saying that the guy was "old" and "past prime".
You are all eating it up.
Only because the guy beat Tim Sylvia (please!)
Gonzaga (who the hell is he? I personally know him because he koed crocop. He's mediocre at best. His vicory over crocop is as relevant as MBride's vs Tyson.) That victory told us more about crocop than Gonzaga himself.

I like couture but He's fighting in the right time , right moment. He's the perfect opportunist. And the HW division is horrible.

What's even worst. Is that Nogueira also looked bad against Herring. But yes , he won that fight. But it was a disappointing performance. So bad , that i wouldn't be surprised to see him lose his next fight.

I'll never buy this Couture > Fedor bullshit.
You know why? Because i can't believe in the hype when i know that the very same man was forced to retire as a LHW (all because of Chuck Liddell).

And Chuck is as one dimensional as it gets.
I'll never believe the hype because I've seen couture in his prime , against Rizzo , Randleman , Barnett , Ricco.

He should've lost his first fight agains Rizzo (granted , couture clearly won the rematch).

He was struggling like hell , against Randleman. (and ended up winning because he had the superior gas tank)

He was defeated at his own game against Josh Barnett (ok , roided barnett)

And of course , who can forget the monumental losses against the likes of Enson Inoue and Overeem's brother?

I'm not buying it.
I'll agree on one thing. Couture's wrestling is obviously better than Fedor's. But then again , Fedor is not a wrestler. And he's been outwrestled several times in his career , so no surprise here.

I can see couture winning because of a cut. But like i said before. That would be pathetic. In terms of skills only , Fedor will treat Couture like GSP did against Matt Hughes and make him look like an amateur.

I'll repeat this again. I'LL NEVER follow this fucking insane hype. NEVER. Each time i see couture with the belt i keep thinking of his two losses against Liddell. And it's a hard pill to swallow. Why? because chuck is sooooo fucking one dimensional and predicable. To this day , I still can't fucking believe that Couture got caught not once , but twice , by the same crap , and preditcable gameplan.

Fedor is gonna be the new "jackson rampage II" and will give the fans a new reality check and show who's the who's in this division.

[ufoalf]

I'll repeat this again. I'LL NEVER follow this fucking insane hype. NEVER.

Will you follow it if Couture beats Fedor in a fation that he beat Sylvia? Even though these guys are 1-2 favs in my book I'd still take Fedor over Couture but not by a landslide. It's not gona be "Fedor taking Couture to school." I hope it will be but I highly doubt it.

[Boyd]

i would put some money on Randy for sure. Fedor would be a big favorite so Randys odds would be nice.

[ufoalf]

i would put some money on Randy for sure. Fedor would be a big favorite so Randys odds would be nice.

You're in for disappointment. No way is Fedor going to be a favorite in bet odds. At best it's going to be even.

[SKULLSPLITTER]

Simply put. Couture at his best is not as good as Fedor at his best.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is an MMA n00b.

[Beebs]

And Chuck is as one dimensional as it gets.
I'll never believe the hype because I've seen couture in his prime , against Rizzo , Randleman , Barnett , Ricco.

That's his prime? You think that the Randy of those years would beat the Randy of today?

[Donut62]

That's his prime? You think that the Randy of those years would beat the Randy of today?

Fedor's his last bastion to clutch too since Pride has fallen and it's fighters been brought to realistic expectations, so give him his hope until Fedor gets in the cage.

[Beebs]

Fedor's his last bastion to clutch too since Pride has fallen and it's fighters been brought to realistic expectations, so give him his hope until Fedor gets in the cage.

I mean, Fedors a great fighter period, but Randy stands a totally legit chance of beating him.

[cross_trainer]

Couture is like Archie Moore and Bill Wallace. He has no definable prime, but gets trickier with age to stay a jump ahead of the younger, stronger competition. But when you take his career in its totality, it's equal to Fedor's because he's managed to stay on top for so long.

[Donut62]

All I know is Nog is fighting Kongo for the number one contedor's match now, and that fight will basically be Nog [insert submission] Round [insert round]. Randy stands a very good chance of grinding out a decision over Nog, and if he does, there is no reason to rank Fedor #1 anymore unless he stops sitting around Stary Oskol waiting for promotions to promise him property on the moon.

[boxingcar]

That's his prime? You think that the Randy of those years would beat the Randy of today?

That's like asking me "you think the "evander Holyfield" of those years would beat the Evander of today?"

You gotta be kidding me. You're not that naive are ya?
The guy is 44 years old. How in the hell can you compare a guy like Gonzaga to someone like Barnett for example?

Be honest , who in the hell was Gonzaga before his irrelevant victory over a shot crocop? Who the fuck was he? We knew that he was tkoed by Werdum in the past. and I've seen the fight too. (wasn't a fluke). And the most insulting thing of all , is that the very same Gonzaga used to frankly look mediocre against nobodies too.

and answer me this , what are the odds of a BJJ fighter , KOing a kickboxer via highkick ?

You don't see what i'm getting at here?
Crocop used to fight bigger , faster , more talented and way more dangerous strikers in the past.

and his loss against Kongo was the icing on the cake. (to lose against such a mediocre kickboxer , back to back). I 'll repeat this. those victories are as relevant as McBride's or danny williams' wins against Tyson.

All of this contributed to Couture's mega hype.
You all know it. I'm not blind. I've seen the old man getting owned twice in a row by Liddell. I've seen that guy reaching the end of his career. I'm not buying the "miracle" come back as a HW.

This is bullshit. The reality is that Dana white gave Couture the opportunity to take the belt from Sylvia without having to go through any sorts of eliminations.

You all remember this right? As soon as Couture came out of retirement , they instantly gave him Sylvia. You all remember it?

Couture (before his fight) used to train with Sylvia. HE KNEW everything about the guy. (in other words , his major weaknesses). He knew that he could do it , then came out of retirement , defeated the guy and the rest was history.

If couture is magically the #1 HW , then let's bring Chuck Liddell in the HW division too and let them have another fight and see what happens!

Then once Liddell takes the belt back , we'll bring Jackson so that he can KO chuck again and i bet everyone will say "omg jackson is #1!!"

[boxingcar]

I mean, Fedors a great fighter period, but Randy stands a totally legit chance of beating him.

Not saying that he has 0% chances or anything. But his chances are still thin. and if it ever happens , it's likely that he'll win via cut stoppage.

and i don't wanna see a bullshit victory like that.

the point is , whether he can do it or not. Right now , the guy is ultra overrated. It's almost comical. Like i said before. So overrated that the average fan would eat up anything. even believing that the guy's greco is superior to Karelin's.

That's how hysterical the fans are right now.

[boxingcar]

Fedor's his last bastion to clutch too since Pride has fallen and it's fighters been brought to realistic expectations, so give him his hope until Fedor gets in the cage.

What bastion? like I said in my first message , fedor HAD A CAREER BEFORE PRIDE FC. Same one as COUTURE actually. (they both fought in the japanese org "rings".)


It's not even about defending pride here. (when you look at the stats , UFC hws are certainly no better. and most of them have failed in the ring too).

It's about Fedor only , as a "person". He had a sambo career , mma career , judo career BEFORE pride fc. Ever wondered why fedor is called "the last emperor" ? That's because he was the last "rings" champion. And he did the same thing in Pride.

Fedor is not crocop. (or any versions of crocop for that matter , prime or not is irrelevant).

Fedor doesn't have mental problems. no stamina problems.
He's not Nogueira either. He's not herring , not Anderson Silva or Jackson.

I'm mentioning these two because even though they're not HWs , we all remember how their career used to look like back in japan.

Today? you've got people saying "who can beat anderson?!!"
I'm not saying that anderson and jackson are overrated. or mediocre. but here again , i'm not gonna believe that the very same guys , would've owned the competition in japan like they're doing today in the ufc.

Now of course , after Shogun's loss. All of this is irrelevant now.
The way i see it , is that Jackson and anderson made a perfect transition from ring to the octagon.

Some fighters don't. Or maybe some fighters , used to take steroids and look different without it.

The point is that unlike all these champs , Fedor had no holes in his career. no moments where you can look back and say "but he couldn't beat this or that guy"

You can't even blame it on weak competition.
Yeah , fedor also had his share of cans , but he also had B level , and A level. and when had to fight the A level , it was in their prime.

Couture also had his share of cans. Let's not pretend that the guy's record is an entire reflection of his oh so "elite" competition either.

Couture vs Enson?
Couture vs Illoukhine?
Couture vs Overeem? (and no that's not Alistair we're talking about here)

You can say , "oh but couture wasn't as good back then , and wasn't in his prime nor as experienced".

Sure , I'll accept that. But then again , the very same thing can be said about Fedor. You think the guy was in his fucking prime back in 2000 ?

[ufoalf]

Thats what a person inside of me is saying. But person on the outside has been suppressed by al the upsets =/

[boxingcar]

Will you follow it if Couture beats Fedor in a fation that he beat Sylvia? Even though these guys are 1-2 favs in my book I'd still take Fedor over Couture but not by a landslide. It's not gona be "Fedor taking Couture to school." I hope it will be but I highly doubt it.

If couture beats Fedor via cut stoppage. Then fuck no. That's no victory in my book. TK did it. Nogueira did it. (though pride ended up counting that one as a no contest).
If couture totally outclasses fedor , submits him or dominates him non stop during 5 rounds and wins a UD. Then I'll shut the fuck up for sure.

But i'll tell you one thing. chuck's two KO victories over couture have already tarnished the guy's record to a point where i'll never concider couture as the #1 "goat".
You have to understand. Liddell is the ANTI-MMA in my book.
A guy who's scared of the ground.
who's supposed to be a kickboxer but never or rarely ever uses his kicks or knees.

a guy who panics and looks like shit on the ground.
a guy who's game plans are extremely predictable.
He's almost an insult to the sport.
(the worst is tim sylvia though).
You see , when everyone were going ape shit during liddell's time. (when he was ufc's #1) , i was more embarrassed for the sport itself than being a "fan" of his.

Because when i see a guy like this dominating.
i'm reminded that top boxers or top kickboxers could very well pull the same shit.
why not right? if a guy who's as one dimensional as liddell can do it?
The excuse that i see a lot is "but liddell's got a wrestling background and boxers don't".

Huh , ok , but liddell also has a kickboxing background and still looks like shit with his so called "kickboxing technic".

I've seen liddell on the ground. It's a fucking sad.
Liddell's gotta a good clinch but not much else.

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

Boxingcar...

You can't play the "Cro-Cop is shot" card, when the man was at his absolute prime in MMA when he came over to the UFC. We can't pretend that he didn't just get done ripping through Pride's finest (outside of Fedor), at the OWGP. As a matter of fact, MANY MMA fans and experts were saying that if Fedor fought Cro-Cop again, that Mirko would beat him. Now, you just don't go from being that damn dominant, and great, to being shot just because you lose two fights.

I think that the reason is rather clear. Cro-Cop was shown to be one dimensional... and the cat is out of the bag that he is a front running bully. If you let Cro-Cop stalk you, and pick his shots while you play his game, then he is going to look fantastic. However, when you have someone in there who isn't afraid to get in his face, and push him backwards... he looks very average, gets frustrated, and basically folds up shop. That has nothing to do with being shot... that has to do with Cro-Cop not being good at fighting out of his comfort zone.

[BewareofDawg]

Boxingcar...

You can't play the "Cro-Cop is shot" card, when the man was at his absolute prime in MMA when he came over to the UFC. We can't pretend that he didn't just get done ripping through Pride's finest (outside of Fedor), at the OWGP. As a matter of fact, MANY MMA fans and experts were saying that if Fedor fought Cro-Cop again, that Mirko would beat him. Now, you just don't go from being that damn dominant, and great, to being shot just because you lose two fights.

I think that the reason is rather clear. Cro-Cop was shown to be one dimensional... and the cat is out of the bag that he is a front running bully. If you let Cro-Cop stalk you, and pick his shots while you play his game, then he is going to look fantastic. However, when you have someone in there who isn't afraid to get in his face, and push him backwards... he looks very average, gets frustrated, and basically folds up shop. That has nothing to do with being shot... that has to do with Cro-Cop not being good at fighting out of his comfort zone.
Yeah but him being 'one-dimensional' does not account for him getting beaten at his own game by a lesser striker in Kongo, and his inability to even phase Gonzaga on his feet. I don't think he is physically shot, but he may be mentally spent.

[BITCH ASS]

Agreed, Randy looks better now than he ever has, if there is someone who can beat Fedor, it is him.

You are fuckin gay.

[EL BULLY]

Boxingcar...

You can't play the "Cro-Cop is shot" card, when the man was at his absolute prime in MMA when he came over to the UFC. We can't pretend that he didn't just get done ripping through Pride's finest (outside of Fedor), at the OWGP. As a matter of fact, MANY MMA fans and experts were saying that if Fedor fought Cro-Cop again, that Mirko would beat him. Now, you just don't go from being that damn dominant, and great, to being shot just because you lose two fights.

I think that the reason is rather clear. Cro-Cop was shown to be one dimensional... and the cat is out of the bag that he is a front running bully. If you let Cro-Cop stalk you, and pick his shots while you play his game, then he is going to look fantastic. However, when you have someone in there who isn't afraid to get in his face, and push him backwards... he looks very average, gets frustrated, and basically folds up shop. That has nothing to do with being shot... that has to do with Cro-Cop not being good at fighting out of his comfort zone.

I have, reluctantly, come to the conclusion that, especially with CroCop, the pride fighters used roids.

He looks all gaunt in the face in the UFC and against another 1 dimensional striker (kongo) just had no drive, desire, strength, cardio...let's face it he just went through the motions to hear the last bell with no fight in him.

I'm starting to suspect the same could apply to Fedor (the roids part). One thing is certain this fight (Randy Fed) HAS to happen. The UFC is now unquestionably the big stage of MMA and Fedor has to fight in it to be considered the best now. Why is he fucking around? Get in the UFC and let's see who's gonna have it.

[Nuke]

Fedor will not lose to RC. I see it ending in the third round by kimura. Mark my words.