Heavyweight Tourney: Final: Vitali Klitschko .Vs. Jack Dempsey

[la-califa]

This is it! The final match, the end of this long Tournament! Vitali Klitschko versus Jack Dempsey. 15 Rounds for the Championship of this Tournament.

Final Match. 15 Rounds.

[PetethePrince]

The final? How did these two make it to the final? What HW boxers did you leave out?

My vote is Vitali by late TKO. More durable than brother, better stamina, and can just try cruising. I don't think Dempsey KO's him, and won't outpoint him. So he will loses by decision or TKO. Dempsey could KO him though. It won't be easy.

[Duodenum]

Feeding time! I'll take the little piranha to reduce the big one to bones within a few minutes of action.

[McGrain]

Absolutley anything could happen.

[JimmyShimmy]

I ain't blind by era gaps.

Vitali is not fit to survive the Dempsey of 1918-1920.

[janitor]

Absolutley anything could happen.

Indeed there are many different ways that Dempsey could kill Vitally.

This is the figfht that Dempsey was born for.

Just a shame that he came allong 80+ years to early.

[KTFO]

The final? How did these two make it to the final? What HW boxers did you leave out?



Good call. :yep

Maybe he should post a brieve list of the tournament-results.

[TheGreatA]

The final? How did these two make it to the final? What HW boxers did you leave out?

My vote is Vitali by late TKO. More durable than brother, better stamina, and can just try cruising. I don't think Dempsey KO's him, and won't outpoint him. So he will loses by decision or TKO. Dempsey could KO him though. It won't be easy.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[PetethePrince]

I ain't blind by era gaps.

Vitali is not fit to survive the Dempsey of 1918-1920.

:lol:

Not that I'm saying that's ridiculous, but because of your delivery.

[PetethePrince]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Oh, a white's only tournament I see.

Okay, in that case I pick Dempsey because I'd rather have him represent "Whites." :lol:

[Kalasinn]

Is this a 187½ lb Dempsey or a hypothetical modern 210 lb version?

[McGrain]

Maybe we could have a tournament made up of only black fighters and then Muham - sorry, the eventual winner, could fight Jack Dempsey.

[PetethePrince]

Maybe we could have a tournament made up of only black fighters and then Muham - sorry, the eventual winner, could fight Jack Dempsey.

Haha.

[JimmyShimmy]

:lol:

Not that I'm saying that's ridiculous, but because of your delivery.

I'm here to amuse!

[Duodenum]

Oh, a white's only tournament I see.

Okay, in that case I pick Dempsey because I'd rather have him represent "Whites." :lol:He's a half breed Choctaw "Injun." (I guess today we call them "Native Americans." In other words, "a savage.")

[Minotauro]

I favour Dempsey he is far quicker and would be all over Vitali.

[mcvey]

Maybe we could have a tournament made up of only black fighters and then Muham - sorry, the eventual winner, could fight Jack Dempsey.

Jack and Leon in the final eh? :lol:

[mcvey]

This is it! The final match, the end of this long Tournament! Vitali Klitschko versus Jack Dempsey. 15 Rounds for the Championship of this Tournament.

Final Match. 15 Rounds.
Vitali isnt pretty to watch ,but he is very effective,takes a terrific shot,[I just watched him against LL again],and can punch hard.
Having said that, I go for Jack ,maybe its an old man's rose coloured glasses thing ,but I feel Dempsey would swarm the big man ,he wouldn't be trundling in like Arreola arms up over his face ,he would be ducking ,bobbing and weaving ,and ,once in range exploding with short punches to the liver and ribcage, then up stairs.
Speed is the killer here imo,Dempsey has it,coupled with a killer instinct and two fisted power.
The guys Vitali fights are happy just to survive imo,they dont try and make him do anything he doesn't want to. Dempsey would not allow that, he would be out for blood.Jack by tko 9th rd.

[JimmyShimmy]

Exactly mcvey,

I actually think Vitali ain't a bad fighter at all. He'd give many a good fighter a beating, but we're talking about a prime Jack Dempsey who was not even the same guy against Firpo and Gibbons.

Vitali is the kind of fighter Dempsey loved to fight. Even if Vitali survived the early onslaught he'd be in bad shape and as a further point Dempsey had good stamina so he would not let up on the attacks after not finishing the job.

Also, and this is a fact, Dempsey was the best slipper out of all the come-forward fighters. He was phenomenal at it with speedy bends and dips at the waist that none has ever replicated as dynamically as he. Vitali would be pulling his hair out trying to land the jab and then BAM!

As I've said, I'm not hypnotized by any theories of superiority in latter eras; Dempsey was one-of-a-kind, a killer, and Vitali would almost certainly be his prey.

[PetethePrince]

He's a half breed Choctaw "Injun." (I guess today we call them "Native Americans." In other words, "a savage.")

Huh, didn't know that. I thought he was Irish. I guess that's the rest of him.

[TommyV]

Joe Bugner comes in as late replacement and beats Vitali:lol::lol::lol:

That actually made me laugh. :lol:

--

On topic, I'll take Dempsey aswell, and I'm not a huge fan of Dempsey at all. I'm even less of a fan of Vitali, but that defeats the point. :lol:

I just think Vitali is as JimmyShimmy said, the type of guy Dempsey would love to fight.

The most difficult part for him is to get within range, but Vitali's jab I don't see of that much of a threat. It's not as varied or snappy as the likes of his brother's or Holmes' for example.

Combined that with Dempsey's superior foot-speed and bob & weaving, I think Klitschko will struggle to keep the distance with Dempsey constantly closing in faster than Klitschko can back up.

I also think he will struggle to time Dempsey with that head movement, as evidenced by the way he struggled to time Gomez for the first 5 or 6 rounds. Dempsey is obviously a better exponent of it.

Therefore I feel that Dempsey has enough to get inside or to sort of mid-range and that's where it's game over. Vitali I'm sure is capable of fighting inside and he's evidently strong, but Dempsey would be ripping left hooks to body and head all the time and Vitali isn't going to be just taking them and trying to get his own punches off.

I mean he's got a great chin, but if anybody is capable of hurting Vitali than Dempsey is certainly up there. He has the advantages here in speed of hand and foot, in power, and most important I think he'll be the one finding it easier to get his punches off; he'll be the one to set the pace and he'll be the one fighting the type of fight that's he's comfortable in.

[KTFO]

Dempsey too robotic. Vitali lands at will. Klit by KO.

[McGrain]

Dempsey too robotic. Vitali lands at will. Klit by KO.


This post forces me to change my "don't know" to Dempsy by TKO in the second. I think that Dempsey's superb footwork, slipping and fast hard slashing punches cut Vitali up and force the referee's hand after the second KD.

[Mr Butt]

ok vitali is a modern fighter and huge so dempsey has no chance as he weighs less than 220 and is from an era when fighters had no real skills moved slowly and and were not big enough to hurt the fighters of today.



no really dempsey by stoppage vitali is slow and robotic and although strong with a good chin he gets busted up and is saved by his corner at the end of the 8th

[Duodenum]

Huh, didn't know that. I thought he was Irish. I guess that's the rest of him.His father Hiram was part Choctaw, and his mother Celia was part Cherokee. That heritage is obvious in his coloring and his features. During the 1970s and 1980s, he would have probably been promoted as Danny Lopez was, complete with feathered headdress. Jack was photographed with tribesmen garbed like this.

Joe Louis was one quarter Cherokee on his mother's side, and Jimmy Bivins in fact called him, "Big Red."

[KTFO]

This post forces me to change my "don't know" to Dempsy by TKO in the second. I think that Dempsey's superb footwork, slipping and fast hard slashing punches cut Vitali up and force the referee's hand after the second KD.



Now you came out of the closet. :rofl

[djanders]

Vitali is a perfect opponent for a prime Dempsey to showcase his abilities! Dempsey would stop Vitali inside of 7 rounds...in a brutal way...in my opinion. A stoppage in the first round would not be out of the question...again...in my opinion.

[rayrobinson]

Gene Tunney out boxes both , on the same day!!!

[TommyV]

Gene Tunney out boxes both , on the same day!!!

Well done for posting something completely unrelated and irrelevant. Would you like to get back to the actual question now?

[Hookie]

I defend the old guys all the time but I can't do it this time... Klitschko by late round KO.

[robert ungurean]

Dempsey by KO. Early.

[Boxed Ears]

I rank Vitali above Flynn and Meehan in a H2H sense if not on resume, so I'd say he's at least got a chance. But styles make fights...

[Maxmomer]

I think this would be a competitive and entertaining fight. Dempsey would probably eat a lot of punches coming in but once he closes the distance he'd maul Vitali to the body. It would be a war of attrition. Dempsey would be cut by the mid rounds but Vitali would be bleeding internally due to the heavy body damage. Eventually I think Dempsey takes Vitali's legs out from under him. Klitschko would find himself more and more often getting caught with big shots upstairs. Vitali takes an 8 count in the 12th round and the ref stops it after Dempsey jumps on him and lands 11 unanswered punches. Vitali slumps to the canvas and they take him out on a stretcher, while an exhausted Dempsey briefly celebrates his victory before going to the hospital to have his head stitched back together.

Either that or Dempsey KO's him in the first round with his first landed left-hook to the chin.

[MRBILL]

This is it! The final match, the end of this long Tournament! Vitali Klitschko versus Jack Dempsey. 15 Rounds for the Championship of this Tournament.

Final Match. 15 Rounds.

Klit by KO in round 10......... Dempsey's face is a bloody pulp and his nose is busted............

Old-Timers and Buzzards NEED to wake-up and smell the coffee and get with the modern day program....... Jack Dempsey was 6' tall and a solid 188 pounds in his prime.... His skills were ordinary by today's standards.... A dude like Vitali Klit would eat Dempsey alive in a time machine......

MR.BILL:bbb

[Mr Butt]

Klit by KO in round 10......... Dempsey's face is a bloody pulp and his nose is busted............

Old-Timers and Buzzards NEED to wake-up and smell the coffee and get with the modern day program....... Jack Dempsey was 6' tall and a solid 188 pounds in his prime.... His skills were ordinary by today's standards.... A dude like Vitali Klit would eat Dempsey alive in a time machine......

MR.BILL:bbb


MR.BILL

i think vitali has by today's standards less than average skill's
his chin is good but his jab is not that good his foot work is slow
he showed limited and robotic punch combonations and a lack of
boxing savvy in the johnson fight



Mr Butt

[MRBILL]

MR.BILL

i think vitali has by today's standards less than average skill's
his chin is good but his jab is not that good his foot work is slow
he showed limited and robotic punch combonations and a lack of
boxing savvy in the johnson fight



Mr Butt

And he (V.K.) still won every goddamn round against a defensively minded and savy 242 lb. Kevin Johnson.........

People who think Johnson stinks as a fighter need to look at it a different way....... Yes, Johnson's offense was awful against the hulking V.K., but his defense and savy was well intact........ Its hard to look good against a skilled survivor........ Johnson showed good skill in surviving...........

ALSO!!! V.K. seems to feed off pressure fighters who go on the attack........ V.K. counters them guys rather well....... But V.K. has proven he can press / force the issue too, but he's slightly outta his comfort zone there......... V.K. shines bright when his opponent / victim wants to mix-it-up..........

MR.BILL:deal:bbb:thumbsup

[Mr Butt]

And he (V.K.) still won every goddamn round against a defensively minded and savvy 242 lb. Kevin Johnson.........

People who think Johnson stinks as a fighter need to look at it a different way....... Yes, Johnson's offense was awful against the hulking V.K., but his defense and savvy was well intact........ Its hard to look good against a skilled survivor........ Johnson showed good skill in surviving...........

ALSO!!! V.K. seems to feed off pressure fighters who go on the attack........ V.K. counters them guys rather well....... But V.K. has proven he can press / force the issue too, but he's slightly outta his comfort zone there......... V.K. shines bright when his opponent / victim wants to mix-it-up..........

MR.BILL:deal:bbb:thumbsup


no i still see vitali being to slow and robotic and getting beat probably retired by his corner with facial damage.

hope you have a great new years eve:good

[ChrisPontius]

It would be a very exciting fight... i see Dempsey winning the early rounds and stunning Vitali, but the intensity of his attack decreases with time while Klitschko keeps pumping 70 heavy handed punches per round. He finds the mark more and more while Dempsey gets tired from constantly having to lunge in at a backing Vitali Klitschko. By the 10th, his face is battered and his left eye closed from all the jabs. Dempsey goes down but it is a slip as he leaped in with his great left hook. Mostly, it's a sign of his fatigue after giving up 60lbs and seven inches in height for so many rounds. During the 12th, Jack is defenceless and at the receiving end of a merciful referee stoppage, while staying on his feet the entire time.

[Bummy Davis]

I think Dempseys speed and power and agression make this a very close fight. Vitali takes the outside but Dempsey jump in with sporatic flurries. a Gruiling affair. Dempsey SD

[MRBILL]

I love Jack Dempsey too, but what a legendary figure he's become over time........ For the first half of the 20th Century, I'll buy into his greatness..... But come post 1960, he is not in his league or element..........

MR.BILL

[Beatle]

Dempsey wins by 1st round, 1st degree murder. How did that big ape get to the finals, anyway?

[Bummy Davis]

Klit by KO in round 10......... Dempsey's face is a bloody pulp and his nose is busted............

Old-Timers and Buzzards NEED to wake-up and smell the coffee and get with the modern day program....... Jack Dempsey was 6' tall and a solid 188 pounds in his prime.... His skills were ordinary by today's standards.... A dude like Vitali Klit would eat Dempsey alive in a time machine......

MR.BILL:bbb

When was Dempsey ever even cut in a fight(he was the brine Master) are you sure its not the other way around on cuts

[MRBILL]

When was Dempsey ever even cut in a fight(he was the brine Master) are you sure its not the other way around on cuts

Bum,

Dempsey never gets to V.K.'s face cuz he never gets past the ramrod jab or right-cross of Klit's........... V.K. may appear awkward or stiff and upright, but that's just how he fights....... I've never seen a tall dude like the 6' 7" V.K. use his height so well.......... NO!!! Jesse Willard is no answer, either.......... Klit and Willard play ball in two different parks and leaugues...... No comparison.........
:deal

MR.BILL:bbb

[TommyV]

Bum,

Dempsey never gets to V.K.'s face cuz he never gets past the ramrod jab or right-cross of Klit's........... V.K. may appear awkward or stiff and upright, but that's just how he fights....... I've never seen a tall dude like the 6' 7" V.K. use his height so well.......... NO!!! Jesse Willard is no answer, either.......... Klit and Willard play ball in two different parks and leaugues...... No comparison.........
:deal

MR.BILL:bbb

How exactly is Vitali - the man that struggled to time Juan Carlos Gomez with anything for the first 5 or 6 rounds - going to time a bobbing & weaving Jack Dempsey? The only reason Vitali was landing on Arreola and Peter is because their head movement is non-existent.

[mcvey]

I love Jack Dempsey too, but what a legendary figure he's become over time........ For the first half of the 20th Century, I'll buy into his greatness..... But come post 1960, he is not in his league or element..........

MR.BILL

Dempsey 6 ' 1''.

[Axl_Nose]

Im not sure how Dempsey and Vitali made the final, what happened to Ali, Marciano, Louis, and Holmes ??

Theres only one winner of this match and thats Dempsey, he was a fighter to his core, Vitali takes centre, jabs and is endlessly scared of taking a shot .. That works with the modern era as its the weakest era in history, but not against Dempsey, Dempsey had skills as well as power, he could cut range like lightning and get some damaging shots off ....

Vitali is a fraud, Dempsey is one of the greatest heavys of all time, this prediction is easy .... Dempsey stoppage within 5 rounds, Vitali's 'Jab' expertise wont help him against a proper, skilled heavyweight ....

[TommyV]

Im not sure how Dempsey and Vitali made the final, what happened to Ali, Marciano, Louis, and Holmes ??

Theres only one winner of this match and thats Dempsey, he was a fighter to his core, Vitali takes centre, jabs and is endlessly scared of taking a shot .. That works with the modern era as its the weakest era in history, but not against Dempsey, Dempsey had skills as well as power, he could cut range like lightning and get some damaging shots off ....

Vitali is a fraud, Dempsey is one of the greatest heavys of all time, this prediction is easy .... Dempsey stoppage within 5 rounds, Vitali's 'Jab' expertise wont help him against a proper, skilled heavyweight ....

It was a white champions/contenders only tournament. No Ali, no Louis, no Holmes, no Lewis, no Tyson. You get the idea. Marciano lost to Vitali in the semi's.

[Axl_Nose]

It was a white champions/contenders only tournament. No Ali, no Louis, no Holmes, no Lewis, no Tyson. You get the idea. Marciano lost to Vitali in the semi's.

Thanks for the heads up, the final should have been Dempsey v Tunney if Marciano got dumped out and we all know how that ended up .. maybe a mythical match of Dempsey 1918 v Tunney in 1925 would have been the best scenario .... Vitali shouldnt really figure into anyones equation, Cooney was better than Vitali !!

A semi-racist post this but Vitali in any heavyweight final is an insult as far as im concerned ..

Marciano and Tunney are disregarded but Vitali is in the final, who the hell voted on this ??

[TommyV]

Thanks for the heads up, the final should have been Dempsey v Tunney if Marciano got dumped out and we all know how that ended up .. maybe a mythical match of Dempsey 1918 v Tunney in 1925 would have been the best scenario .... Vitali shouldnt really figure into anyones equation, Cooney was better than Vitali !!

A semi-racist post this but Vitali in any heavyweight final is an insult as far as im concerned ..

Marciano and Tunney are disregarded but Vitali is in the final, who the hell voted on this ??

Here's the full bout of results for you or anyone interested that hasn't been following:

Round One:

Max Schmeling UD10 Billy Conn
Rocky Marciano TKO9 Gerrie Coetzee
Jack Dempsey TKO6 Nikolai Valuev
Wladimir Klitschko TKO10 Gerry Cooney
George Chuvalo UD10 John Ruiz
Gene Tunney UD10 Ingemar Johansson
David Tua SD10 Jerry Quarry
James Jeffries UD10 Max Baer
Tommy Morrison UD10 Corrie Sanders
Andrew Golota UD10 Jess Willard
Oscar Bonavena TKO10 Primo Carnera
Les Darcy SD10 Henry Cooper
Tommy Burns SD10 James J Braddock
John L Sullivan MD10 Jack Sharkey
James Corbett UD10 Luis Firpo
Vitali Klitschko TKO9 Bob Fitzsimmons

Round Two:

Rocky Marciano UD12 Andrew Golota
John L Sullivan KO4 Tommy Morrison
Vitali Kltschko TKO9 Tommy Burns
Wladimir Klitschko UD12 Jim Jeffries
Gene Tunney UD12 George Chuvalo
Jack Dempsey TKO6 Max Schmeling
James Corbett TKO10 Les Darcy
Oscar Bonavena UD12 David Tua

Round Three:

Jack Dempsey TKO9 Oscar Bonavena
Vitali Klitschko TKO13 James Corbett
Rocky Marciano MD15 Gene Tunney
John L Sullivan TKO15 Wladimir Klitschko*

Bonus Fight:

-
Wladimir Klitschko UD15 Gene Tunney*
-

Semi-Finals:

Jack Dempsey TKO6 Wladimir Klitschko
Vitali Klitschko TKO13 Rocky Marciano

*It seems that this might of been miscalculated by la-califa, or at least the majority weren't happy about the result. Because of this, la-califa overturned it (Officially, Sullivan couldn't continue due to injuries sustained in the bout) so he went ahead and plotted Wlad vs Tunney to decide who makes the semi's.

[Axl_Nose]

Here's the full bout of results for you or anyone interested that hasn't been following:

Round One:

Max Schmeling UD10 Billy Conn
Rocky Marciano TKO9 Gerrie Coetzee
Jack Dempsey TKO6 Nikolai Valuev
Wladimir Klitschko TKO10 Gerry Cooney
George Chuvalo UD10 John Ruiz
Gene Tunney UD10 Ingemar Johansson
David Tua SD10 Jerry Quarry
James Jeffries UD10 Max Baer
Tommy Morrison UD10 Corrie Sanders
Andrew Golota UD10 Jess Willard
Oscar Bonavena TKO10 Primo Carnera
Les Darcy SD10 Henry Cooper
Tommy Burns SD10 James J Braddock
John L Sullivan MD10 Jack Sharkey
James Corbett UD10 Luis Firpo
Vitali Klitschko TKO9 Bob Fitzsimmons

Round Two:

Rocky Marciano UD12 Andrew Golota
John L Sullivan KO4 Tommy Morrison
Vitali Kltschko TKO9 Tommy Burns
Wladimir Klitschko UD12 Jim Jeffries
Gene Tunney UD12 George Chuvalo
Jack Dempsey TKO6 Max Schmeling
James Corbett TKO10 Les Darcy
Oscar Bonavena UD12 David Tua

Round Three:

Jack Dempsey TKO9 Oscar Bonavena
Vitali Klitschko TKO13 James Corbett
Rocky Marciano MD15 Gene Tunney
John L Sullivan TKO15 Wladimir Klitschko*

Bonus Fight:

-
Wladimir Klitschko UD15 Gene Tunney*
-

Semi-Finals:

Jack Dempsey TKO6 Wladimir Klitschko
Vitali Klitschko TKO13 Rocky Marciano

*It seems that this might of been miscalculated by la-califa, or at least the majority weren't happy about the result. Because of this, la-califa overturned it (Officially, Sullivan couldn't continue due to injuries sustained in the bout) so he went ahead and plotted Wlad vs Tunney to decide who makes the semi's.

Thanks for that Tommy, i'd question the thinking in Rocky being defeated by Vitali, wouldnt question Tunney being defeated by Marciano but thats the way these mythological tournaments go i suppose, Wlad never beats Tunney for me but im honestly biased, Wlad isnt fit to clean Tunneys jockstrap in my opinion ..

Dempsey must be declared the winner .. Vitali winning with his limited skillset downgrades the sport

[Axl_Nose]

Would have liked to have seen Max Baer take on Vitali at some point, im pretty sure that would have been the end of Vitali in this tournament but hey the greatest White Heavyweight tournament should have been between, Tunney, Marciano, Dempsey and Baer ,

Tunney v Marciano
Dempsey v Baer in the semis with 'probably'

Marciano v Dempsey in the final .... Vitali being there gives me kidney stones ....

[GregDempsey]

if you watch footage of vitali he is very much like willard not just in size but even style, over all body deminisons beyond size....jab....hands low...everything..with one difference....vitali seems to be much better at stepping back and off to the size...so even if you get past his jab..he often still isnt their...willard never was very good at that..even look at the carl mooris footage or the Johnson footage....so while i love the old times..and while my name is choosen last name is Dempsey, I have to go with klitschko by late round KO...but Jack definitly stands a shot.

[Maxmomer]

Would have liked to have seen Max Baer take on Vitali at some point, im pretty sure that would have been the end of Vitali in this tournament but hey the greatest White Heavyweight tournament should have been between, Tunney, Marciano, Dempsey and Baer ,

Tunney v Marciano
Dempsey v Baer in the semis with 'probably'

Marciano v Dempsey in the final .... Vitali being there gives me kidney stones ....

Baer is nowhere near the class of Marciano, Dempsey and Tunney.

[GregDempsey]

guys what is this based on..i love the old times..and i think many people underestimate them..but are people actually arguing that Klitschko would stand no chance aganst men he outweighted by 70 soild pounds.

[Axl_Nose]

Baer is nowhere near the class of Marciano, Dempsey and Tunney.

Didnt make a case that he was, but dont try and convince me that Vitali, a stiff who has been taught expertly to use his natural size advantage against very average opponents, deserves to beat Marciano and Dempsey .. Thats madness, he has a jab and he uses his natural range but Vitali stands out in a media age against no-skill opposition .. He's nothing, but him in with a decent fighter with a few skills, it wouldnt need to be even the top tier, put him in with Lyle or Young and he'd be found out, a 'live' Charles and Holyfield would deal with him .... Its alright making your reputation with wins against guys like Danny Williams, Kevin Johnson, Sam Peter and Corrie Sanders but against guys with some ability he's easy meat .....

[TommyV]

Thanks for that Tommy, i'd question the thinking in Rocky being defeated by Vitali, wouldnt question Tunney being defeated by Marciano but thats the way these mythological tournaments go i suppose, Wlad never beats Tunney for me but im honestly biased, Wlad isnt fit to clean Tunneys jockstrap in my opinion ..

Dempsey must be declared the winner .. Vitali winning with his limited skillset downgrades the sport

I don't think there's anyway Tunney beats Wlad. Klitsckho is a very good technical boxer, and so is Tunney. That's the problem. Wlad has all the advantage's because they would both try to box and Wlad has the advantage in height and reach and size. His flaws - his ability or therefore 'lack of' to cope with pressure and perhaps his chin - aren't really underthreat here.

[Boxed Ears]

How exactly is Vitali - the man that struggled to time Juan Carlos Gomez with anything for the first 5 or 6 rounds - going to time a bobbing & weaving Jack Dempsey? The only reason Vitali was landing on Arreola and Peter is because their head movement is non-existent.

What? From what I remember, Vitali had absolutely no trouble in any way after feeling him out the first round. Of course, an HW Gomez has none of the mobility of Dempsey but still, just addressing the Gomez/VK fight.

[janitor]

Dempsey is built from the ground up to destroy either Klitschko.

His style is based around frustrating any fighter who tries to keep him at range. His head movment is verry unpredictable.

If all you have is a long jab amd flat feet, then you might as well surrender before the fight, because that is the one punch that he could avoid all day today and tomorrow.

If you don't have good infighting skills then you are prety much screwed. If you don't have an efficient uppercut then you are in a world of pain.

[PetethePrince]

Dempsey is built from the ground up to destroy either Klitschko.

His style is based around frustrating any fighter who tries to keep him at range. His head movment is verry unpredictable.

If all you have is a long jab amd flat feet, then you might as well surrender before the fight, because that is the one punch that he could avoid all day today and tomorrow.

If you don't have good infighting skills then you are prety much screwed. If you don't have an efficient uppercut then you are in a world of pain.

Sounds like awful news for Vitali. I still think his chances are better than his brother's, but still a nightmare fight.

[Casey91]

Dempsey beats the upright robot vitali all over the ring.I have know idea how vitali tko's rocky in 13,I don't know how anyone can even compare vitali to a great he has fought nobodys and is so boring,I believe it was teddy atlas that said "watching his fights is like watching paint dry".

[Boxed Ears]

Dempsey beats the upright robot vitali all over the ring.I have know idea how vitali tko's rocky in 13,I don't know how anyone can even compare vitali to a great he has fought nobodys and is so boring,I believe it was teddy atlas that said "watching his fights is like watching paint dry".

Boring is subjective and I don't find him even a little boring.

[MRBILL]

Anyone who thinks Dempsey from 1919 to 1922 is gonna beat / KO Vitali Klit from 2003 to 2009 is out of there mind......... Dempsey had his share of flaws just like everybody else who's boxed past or presently...... Vitali Klitschko is in a whole different stadium than prior Dempsey victims like "Willard and Firpo." Christ sakes, people need to get a cup of coffee and wake-up to 2010....... Klit by bloody TKO over Dempsey.....

MR.BILL

[PetethePrince]

Anyone who thinks Dempsey from 1919 to 1922 is gonna beat / KO Vitali Klit from 2003 to 2009 is out of there mind......... Dempsey had his share of flaws just like everybody else who's boxed past or presently...... Vitali Klitschko is in a whole different stadium than prior Dempsey victims like "Willard and Firpo." Christ sakes, people need to get a cup of coffee and wake-up to 2010....... Klit by bloody TKO over Dempsey.....

MR.BILL


I guess most everyone here is crazy then. By the way, how the hell can you justify ranking Vitali #6 among HWs. Let's talk about that Bill...

[MRBILL]

I guess most everyone here is crazy then. By the way, how the hell can you justify ranking Vitali #6 among HWs. Let's talk about that Bill...

Simple..... Cuz I truly believe that V.K. is the kind of fighter / champion with a winning attitude that would enable him to have fought in any era between 1887 thru 2010 and be a winner for the most part.......

V.K. is the first or second hulking heavyweight that I have ever seen who is a real ring general who rarely loses a round or a fight........ I also credit V.K. with fighting better competition than his haters or detractors give him.......

If old farts and dreamers want to insist that guys like "Jeffries, Dempsey, Baer & Marciano" would be successful as fighters / champions in the post 1960 era of heavyweight boxing, well, then I feel inclined and comfortable by placing V.K. in at # 6 or 7 on my ATG list of heavies from 1887 to right now in '10.....

I just don't see V.K. being beaten by anymore than a handful of former great fighters........ V.K. rates high on my personal scale..........

MR.BILL:deal:thumbsup:hat

[la-califa]

Here's the full bout of results for you or anyone interested that hasn't been following:

Round One:

Max Schmeling UD10 Billy Conn
Rocky Marciano TKO9 Gerrie Coetzee
Jack Dempsey TKO6 Nikolai Valuev
Wladimir Klitschko TKO10 Gerry Cooney
George Chuvalo UD10 John Ruiz
Gene Tunney UD10 Ingemar Johansson
David Tua SD10 Jerry Quarry
James Jeffries UD10 Max Baer
Tommy Morrison UD10 Corrie Sanders
Andrew Golota UD10 Jess Willard
Oscar Bonavena TKO10 Primo Carnera
Les Darcy SD10 Henry Cooper
Tommy Burns SD10 James J Braddock
John L Sullivan MD10 Jack Sharkey
James Corbett UD10 Luis Firpo
Vitali Klitschko TKO9 Bob Fitzsimmons

Round Two:

Rocky Marciano UD12 Andrew Golota
John L Sullivan KO4 Tommy Morrison
Vitali Kltschko TKO9 Tommy Burns
Wladimir Klitschko UD12 Jim Jeffries
Gene Tunney UD12 George Chuvalo
Jack Dempsey TKO6 Max Schmeling
James Corbett TKO10 Les Darcy
Oscar Bonavena UD12 David Tua

Round Three:

Jack Dempsey TKO9 Oscar Bonavena
Vitali Klitschko TKO13 James Corbett
Rocky Marciano MD15 Gene Tunney
John L Sullivan TKO15 Wladimir Klitschko*

Bonus Fight:

-
Wladimir Klitschko UD15 Gene Tunney*
-

Semi-Finals:

Jack Dempsey TKO6 Wladimir Klitschko
Vitali Klitschko TKO13 Rocky Marciano

*It seems that this might of been miscalculated by la-califa, or at least the majority weren't happy about the result. Because of this, la-califa overturned it (Officially, Sullivan couldn't continue due to injuries sustained in the bout) so he went ahead and plotted Wlad vs Tunney to decide who makes the semi's. Excellent summation of the Tournament thus far. Great,great post.

[Flea Man]

That actually made me laugh. :lol:

--

On topic, I'll take Dempsey aswell, and I'm not a huge fan of Dempsey at all. I'm even less of a fan of Vitali, but that defeats the point. :lol:

I just think Vitali is as JimmyShimmy said, the type of guy Dempsey would love to fight.

The most difficult part for him is to get within range, but Vitali's jab I don't see of that much of a threat. It's not as varied or snappy as the likes of his brother's or Holmes' for example.

Combined that with Dempsey's superior foot-speed and bob & weaving, I think Klitschko will struggle to keep the distance with Dempsey constantly closing in faster than Klitschko can back up.

I also think he will struggle to time Dempsey with that head movement, as evidenced by the way he struggled to time Gomez for the first 5 or 6 rounds. Dempsey is obviously a better exponent of it.

Therefore I feel that Dempsey has enough to get inside or to sort of mid-range and that's where it's game over. Vitali I'm sure is capable of fighting inside and he's evidently strong, but Dempsey would be ripping left hooks to body and head all the time and Vitali isn't going to be just taking them and trying to get his own punches off.

I mean he's got a great chin, but if anybody is capable of hurting Vitali than Dempsey is certainly up there. He has the advantages here in speed of hand and foot, in power, and most important I think he'll be the one finding it easier to get his punches off; he'll be the one to set the pace and he'll be the one fighting the type of fight that's he's comfortable in.

I'll second all of this, right down to the point about not being particularly impressed with either fighter:lol:

What I will say is, that in my hypothetical fights, I allow either fighter to wear their own gloves, and the ruleset is safe. So no complete mauling, but both men are allowed to operate.

I think this will be a closeish fight mainly because I'm not sure I'm that impressed by either Willard or Firpo on film. However, Dempsey showed all the attributes you listed, so I agree; Dempsey can win.

And with his gloves I think he'll probably punch Vitali's face in to force a stoppage in around 11. Personally I feel Marciano would've outpointed Vitali.

[janitor]

Simple..... Cuz I truly believe that V.K. is the kind of fighter / champion with a winning attitude that would enable him to have fought in any era between 1887 thru 2010 and be a winner for the most part.......

V.K. is the first or second hulking heavyweight that I have ever seen who is a real ring general who rarely loses a round or a fight........ I also credit V.K. with fighting better competition than his haters or detractors give him.......

If old farts and dreamers want to insist that guys like "Jeffries, Dempsey, Baer & Marciano" would be successful as fighters / champions in the post 1960 era of heavyweight boxing, well, then I feel inclined and comfortable by placing V.K. in at # 6 or 7 on my ATG list of heavies from 1887 to right now in '10.....

I just don't see V.K. being beaten by anymore than a handful of former great fighters........ V.K. rates high on my personal scale..........

MR.BILL:deal:thumbsup:hat

Well you have certainly nailed your colours to the mast there.

This is a maverick opinion.

Perhaps you are a bit like Nat Fleischer getting captivated by the genius of Bob Fitzsimmons and thinking he could beat anybody from 1910 onwards?

[MRBILL]

Well you have certainly nailed your colours to the mast there.

This is a maverick opinion.

Perhaps you are a bit like Nat Fleischer getting captivated by the genius of Bob Fitzsimmons and thinking he could beat anybody from 1910 onwards?

Quite the contrary...... I think that guys like "John L. Sullivan, Battling Nelson, Bob Fitz, Tom Sharkey and Benny Leonard" were great fighters / ringers for their day and age, but I also think boxing has advanced a great deal and the training & dieting part has improved, along with the science as well......

And, in my opinion, Lennox Lewis and Vitali Klit are the best "Hulks" who were or are over 6' 5" tall and can weigh easily 250 pounds and be fit to fight a championship bout....... I think these guys either were or are the goods..........
:deal:thumbsup:bbb

MR.BILL


Note:

A more reasonable and perhaps enjoyable war would be to pit Bobby Fitz of 1897 against Jack Dempsey of 1920-circa into a time machine and see what happens there......... I find that dream fight of interest..........
:thumbsup

[PetethePrince]

Simple..... Cuz I truly believe that V.K. is the kind of fighter / champion with a winning attitude that would enable him to have fought in any era between 1887 thru 2010 and be a winner for the most part.......

V.K. is the first or second hulking heavyweight that I have ever seen who is a real ring general who rarely loses a round or a fight........ I also credit V.K. with fighting better competition than his haters or detractors give him.......

If old farts and dreamers want to insist that guys like "Jeffries, Dempsey, Baer & Marciano" would be successful as fighters / champions in the post 1960 era of heavyweight boxing, well, then I feel inclined and comfortable by placing V.K. in at # 6 or 7 on my ATG list of heavies from 1887 to right now in '10.....

I just don't see V.K. being beaten by anymore than a handful of former great fighters........ V.K. rates high on my personal scale..........

MR.BILL:deal:thumbsup:hat

I think you're saying that you rate purely on H2H. Otherwise, there is zero justification for rating him that high. I hope my instincts on that are right. You're still very generous on VK, either way.