Miguel Canto - his top 5 wins

[China_hand_Joe]

What do you consider to be Miguel Canto's 5 most impressive victories?

[Sweet Pea]

I gave you that in the other thread. His resume takes a big, steaming shit on Calzaghe's.

[natonic]

I gave you that in the other thread. His resume takes a big, steaming shit on Calzaghe's.

LOL. ChinaHandoJoe, we know how this turns out. You make a futile attempt to shoot down Canto's resume. Pea then schools you brutally. End of story. Why don't you do more reading and less writing until you learn a little more.

[red cobra]

Miguel Canto was the purest defensive boxing master of Mexico. How in the hell can anyone not realize that?

[China_hand_Joe]

I'll give you 5 top flight opponents he beat, often multiple times:

Shoji Oguma (thrice)
Betulio Gonzalez (thrice)
Antonio Avelar
Susumu Hanagata
Martin Vargas (twice)

That in itself is more impressive than Calzaghe's entire resume.

You named a novice Antonio Avelar :lol:

A guy that had lost to almost ever fighter with a winning record he had ever fought.

What the fuck is this? - [Only registered and activated users can see links]

Losing to 6-4 fighter just before fighting Canto, knocked out in his previous fight?

Congratulations on being able to name some obscure fighter from the past :lol:

[China_hand_Joe]

LOL. ChinaHandoJoe, we know how this turns out. You make a futile attempt to shoot down Canto's resume. Pea then schools you brutally. End of story. Why don't you do more reading and less writing until you learn a little more.


I am actually in the right for a change, cannot believe this :lol:

[natonic]

I am actually in the right for a change, cannot believe this :lol:

Well, I admire your good nature but I look forward to Pea's response ;)

[China_hand_Joe]

Well, I admire your good nature but I look forward to Pea's response ;)

Something about the era being so stacked that even the 6-4 fighters were absolute beasts I think...

Canto is no legend, who knows where the idea he is even came from, it is unexplainable. Maybe people just liked his defensive poor-mans Pep kind of style.

[TommyV]

Probably the one's Sweet Pea mentioned. Furesawa could slot in there aswell imo.

[Sweet Pea]

You named a novice Antonio Avelar :lol:

A guy that had lost to almost ever fighter with a winning record he had ever fought.

What the fuck is this? - [Only registered and activated users can see links]

Losing to 6-4 fighter just before fighting Canto, knocked out in his previous fight?

Congratulations on being able to name some obscure fighter from the past :lol:The same 6-4 fighter that he immediately avenged his loss to post-Canto. He hadn't yet hit his prime at the time of the Canto bout, that's to be certain. However, a year after he stopped one of the smoothest Flyweights in the game in Alfonso Lopez. The following year he stopped Shoji Oguma for the WBC title, and avenged it 3 months later against Korean Tae-Shik Kim, who'd previously beaten underrated Flyweight great Luis Ibarra for the WBA portion. A few years down the road he avenged his loss to Freddy Castillo via stoppage and stopped an up and coming Wilfredo Vazquez. His chin was unreliable, his punch wasn't.

The fact that Canto never had the means to expose the unreliable chins should give you some insight as to how skilled the man was as a pure boxer. He never slipped up until well past his prime. For a midget (even by Flyweight standards) to be so consistent in such a stacked era speaks volumes about his technical craftsmanship.

[Sweet Pea]

Something about the era being so stacked that even the 6-4 fighters were absolute beasts I think...:lol:

[China_hand_Joe]

Probably the one's Sweet Pea mentioned. Furesawa could slot in there aswell imo.

You agree Vargas should be in there?
Then you agree Canto's resume is trash.
What did Vargas ever do besides beat up cabbie and struggle against pretty much every competent fighter he fought?


You have good historical knowledge but don't pretend Canto was an ATG just to try and validate having that knowledge.


I am always wrong on this stuff, like when i tried to belittle Ezzard Charles.

But there are two things I have right in this world:
Canto was not a real ATG and and Joe Calzaghe is the all time P4P number one.

[natonic]

Something about the era being so stacked that even the 6-4 fighters were absolute beasts I think...

Canto is no legend, who knows where the idea he is even came from, it is unexplainable. Maybe people just liked his defensive poor-mans Pep kind of style.

Pep, Locche, Canto, Benitez, Whitaker. I have no problem at all putting Canto in that group defensively. I could also argue that Canto was better offensively than Locche. That's pretty good company to be in. Legendary? I guess that's subjective. He's good enough for me.

[Sweet Pea]

I am always wrong on this stuff.:good

[TommyV]

You agree Vargas should be in there?
Then you agree Canto's resume is trash.
What did Vargas ever do besides beat up cabbie and struggle against pretty much every competent fighter he fought?

Alfonso Lopez, Joey Olivo, Rafael Pedroza.

[Sweet Pea]

I don't even know why I gave him the time of day. I guess it's because he makes me laugh. I honestly think he's a comedian. Tearing down Canto's resume only to mention Joe Calzaghe's ATG status in the same sentence. Brilliant.

[China_hand_Joe]

AJoey Olivo

I knew you would mention him.

He was a World champion!



But one who took his title form a 11-10-1 fighter and lost it the very next fight.

Just look at the records of the guys he beat, then look what happened whenever he came up against guys with decent records.

The only 21-8 type fighters Olivo was capable of beating were one who had built their 21-8 on 8-8-1 type fighters.

There is no depth to Canto's resume at all.

[TommyV]

I knew you would mention him.

He was a World champion!



But one who took his title form a 11-10-1 fighter and lost it the very next fight.

Just look at the records of the guys he beat, then look what happened whenever he came up against guys with decent records.

The only 21-8 type fighters Olivo was capable of beating were one who had built their 21-8 on 8-8-1 type fighters.

There is no depth to Canto's resume at all.

What about the fact Olivo took Woo Yuh to a split and went a competitive 12 with Zapata?

I don't know why I even bother. You are clearly a wind-up merchant.

[Duodenum]

It's been decades since I've watched Canto, but I'll give it a shot. (By the way, Happy New Decade everyone!)

Vargas I & II, Oguma III, Gonzales III and Takada.

Jiro Takada was the only stoppage win of his championship career, and got a lot of airplay on US television during the late 1970s and early 1980s on the syndicated Calvacade of Boxing program presented by Steven Bass and Harold Lederman. Canto peppered him with every punch in the book, things like effortless six hook combinations. An amazingly quick guy.

A camera close up of Canto's footwork in the final round of one of the Vargas wins showed that there was no discernible difference in the way he moved his feet from the opening round. Tremendous 15 round conditioning.

From long range, this short flyweight could neutralize and outbox opponents of greater height and reach as effectively as any stylist I've ever seen.

Canto was susceptible to cuts, but had the defensive skill to render this weakness moot during his prime. His slide didn't begin until after he turned 30, an advanced age for a world class points oriented flyweight.

Was he an ATG? He dethroned Oguma for his WBC title, and beat him in two defenses, all in Japan. He swept the last two from Gonzales, the final one in Venezuela. Gonzales and Oguma are potential HOF inductees. (Given the IBHOF's diminished standards, Gonzales and Oguma are probably shoo-ins.) He came as close to unifying the flyweight championship as he could have in that political climate with his series wins over Gonzales and Oguma. From 1975 to 1979, Canto was clearly the best in the world at 112.

[Mantequilla]

Stay out of classic Joe.Or at least have the imagination to create a china hand conteh account for your wind up posts.

[McGrain]

Who the fuck is running CHJ's account these days?

[China_hand_Joe]

Was he an ATG? He dethroned Oguma for his WBC title, and beat him in two defenses, all in Japan. He swept the last two from Gonzales, the final one in Venezuela. Gonzales and Oguma are potential HOF inductees. (Given the IBHOF's diminished standards, Gonzales and Oguma are probably shoo-ins.) He came as close to unifying the flyweight championship as he could have in that political climate with his series wins over Gonzales and Oguma. From 1975 to 1979, Canto was clearly the best in the world at 112.

Finally someone makes a coherant post.

But you should be listing anything other than wins over Oguma and Gonzalez. They are the only two fighters whose resumes standup to any real examination.

On no level am I saying Canto wasn't world class, that would be silly.

And I agree he was the best flyweight in the world at that time.

But not by sufficient enough of a margin to be named above the like of Ricardo Lopez, Barrera, Marquez, Morales like he was in the other thread. A fighter with Barrera's talent at that weight would have ripped the division up.

Canto was an ATG flyweight, but deserves to stay well away from any all time P4P lists. People are listing this guy above some great fighters which is insane when people are listing wins over Vargas as amopng his best.

[China_hand_Joe]

Stay out of classic Joe.Or at least have the imagination to create a china hand conteh account for your wind up posts.

Claiming Canto is greater than Ricardo Lopez or Eric Morales is a wind up mate.

The numbers on his resume don't add up to him being that kind of level.

[Mantequilla]

Well he is no Robin Reid i'll give you that.

[China_hand_Joe]

Robin Reid has a deeper resume if you just look at the numbers and ignore the names.

Losing a split decision to Calzaghe arguably puts him above Canto, if you ignore Calzaghe's injury.

Flyweight does not have the deeped talent pool in the history of the sport. How many people that size do you see in the street?

Canto did not rip his opposition apart, he is not a top 5 all time Mexican fighter. You are all collectivey insane on this issue.




1 Pascual Perez 831 84(57)-7(3)-1

1952-1964 orthodox

Argentina
2 Jimmy Wilde 823 133(99)-4(3)-2

1910-1923 orthodox

Quakers Yard, Wales, United Kingdom
3 Efren Torres 719 53(35)-9(3)-1

1959-1972 orthodox

Michoacán de Ocampo, Mexico
4 Chartchai Chionoi 662 61(36)-18(5)-3

1959-1975 orthodox

Patumthanee, Thailand
5 Jackie Paterson 657 64(41)-25(10)-3

1938-1951

Springfield, Scotland, United Kingdom
6 Benny Lynch 615 81(34)-12(1)-15

1931-1938 orthodox

Gorbals, Scotland, United Kingdom
7 Pone Kingpetch 598 28(9)-7(3)-0

1954-1966 orthodox

Hua Hin, Thailand
8 Salvatore Burruni 585 99(32)-9(1)-1

1957-1969

Alghero, Sardegna, Italy
9 Horacio Enrique Accavallo 581 75(34)-2(1)-6

1956-1967 southpaw

Buenos Aires, Distrito Federal, Argentina
10 Pancho Villa 512 80(24)-5(0)-3

1919-1925 orthodox


11 Miguel Canto 510 61(15)-9(5)-4

1969-1982 orthodox

Merida, Yucatán, Mexico
12 Hiroyuki Ebihara 485 62(33)-5(0)-1

1959-1969 southpaw

Tokyo, Japan
13 Betulio Gonzalez 483 77(52)-12(4)-4

1968-1988 orthodox

Maracaibo, Venezuela
14 Masao Oba 471 35(16)-2(0)-1

1966-1973 orthodox

Tokyo, Japan
15 Frankie Genaro 459 78(18)-23(4)-8

1920-1934

New York, New York, United States
16 Venice Borkhorsor 423 49(36)-8(1)-0

1968-1980 southpaw

Nakhon Phanom, Thailand
17 Rinty Monaghan 420 51(20)-9(1)-6

1934-1949

Belfast, Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
18 Little Pancho 408 42(7)-14(4)-15

1928-1942


19 Peter Kane 405 89(54)-8(4)-2

1934-1951

Liverpool, Merseyside, United Kingdom
20 Santos Benigno Laciar 403 79(30)-10(0)-11

1976-1990 orthodox

Villa Carlos Paz, Cordoba, Argentina



There is a reason boxrec only considers him the 11th best flyweight in history, their ratings are far form perfect, but that is really low that you can ignore any imperfections and errors in their formulae. No depth to his resume.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Mantequilla]

:lol:

[Sweet Pea]

Robin Reid has a deeper resume if you just look at the numbers and ignore the names.

Losing a split decision to Calzaghe arguably puts him above Canto, if you ignore Calzaghe's injury.

Flyweight does not have the deeped talent pool in the history of the sport. How many people that size do you see in the street?

Canto did not rip his opposition apart, he is not a top 5 all time Mexican fighter. You are all collectivey insane on this issue.
:roflI'll say it again Joe, you're a funny guy.

[TommyV]

Robin Reid has a deeper resume if you just look at the numbers and ignore the names.

Losing a split decision to Calzaghe arguably puts him above Canto, if you ignore Calzaghe's injury.

Flyweight does not have the deeped talent pool in the history of the sport. How many people that size do you see in the street?

Canto did not rip his opposition apart, he is not a top 5 all time Mexican fighter. You are all collectivey insane on this issue.




1 Pascual Perez 831 84(57)-7(3)-1

1952-1964 orthodox

Argentina
2 Jimmy Wilde 823 133(99)-4(3)-2

1910-1923 orthodox

Quakers Yard, Wales, United Kingdom
3 Efren Torres 719 53(35)-9(3)-1

1959-1972 orthodox

Michoacán de Ocampo, Mexico
4 Chartchai Chionoi 662 61(36)-18(5)-3

1959-1975 orthodox

Patumthanee, Thailand
5 Jackie Paterson 657 64(41)-25(10)-3

1938-1951

Springfield, Scotland, United Kingdom
6 Benny Lynch 615 81(34)-12(1)-15

1931-1938 orthodox

Gorbals, Scotland, United Kingdom
7 Pone Kingpetch 598 28(9)-7(3)-0

1954-1966 orthodox

Hua Hin, Thailand
8 Salvatore Burruni 585 99(32)-9(1)-1

1957-1969

Alghero, Sardegna, Italy
9 Horacio Enrique Accavallo 581 75(34)-2(1)-6

1956-1967 southpaw

Buenos Aires, Distrito Federal, Argentina
10 Pancho Villa 512 80(24)-5(0)-3

1919-1925 orthodox


11 Miguel Canto 510 61(15)-9(5)-4

1969-1982 orthodox

Merida, Yucatán, Mexico
12 Hiroyuki Ebihara 485 62(33)-5(0)-1

1959-1969 southpaw

Tokyo, Japan
13 Betulio Gonzalez 483 77(52)-12(4)-4

1968-1988 orthodox

Maracaibo, Venezuela
14 Masao Oba 471 35(16)-2(0)-1

1966-1973 orthodox

Tokyo, Japan
15 Frankie Genaro 459 78(18)-23(4)-8

1920-1934

New York, New York, United States
16 Venice Borkhorsor 423 49(36)-8(1)-0

1968-1980 southpaw

Nakhon Phanom, Thailand
17 Rinty Monaghan 420 51(20)-9(1)-6

1934-1949

Belfast, Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
18 Little Pancho 408 42(7)-14(4)-15

1928-1942


19 Peter Kane 405 89(54)-8(4)-2

1934-1951

Liverpool, Merseyside, United Kingdom
20 Santos Benigno Laciar 403 79(30)-10(0)-11

1976-1990 orthodox

Villa Carlos Paz, Cordoba, Argentina



There is a reason boxrec only considers him the 11th best flyweight in history, their ratings are far form perfect, but that is really low that you can ignore any imperfections and errors in their formulae. No depth to his resume.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Boxrec also says Oscar De La Hoya is a top 10 ATG. And they only have Calzaghe in the 50's, how do you feel about Boxrec now?

[China_hand_Joe]

Maybe I am the crazy one, perhaps you are all right.

But I doubt this very much.

I am David Icke, you are Terry Wogan and his audience.

We will leave it there and never agree.

[Duodenum]

Finally someone makes a coherent post.

But you should be listing anything other than wins over Oguma and Gonzalez. They are the only two fighters whose resumes standup to any real examination.Therefore, can I safely assume you regard Canto's five wins against those two opponents as his most impressive? I have no quarrel with that at all, and certainly agree that Vargas wasn't remotely in their class, but I was struck by Canto's mastery over the complete distance against Vargas. It was clearly by choice that he did not stop the Chilean late, yet he almost did it by accident anyways. Takada was a uniquely aggressive performance by Canto (much as Fuji was for Locche), and Takada was a reasonably qualified challenger for El Maestro's belt. As I haven't seen Canto's earlier wins over Oguma and Gonzales, I wasn't entirely comfortable citing those outcomes over those with which I'm more familiar, as good as they look on paper.On no level am I saying Canto wasn't world class, that would be silly.

And I agree he was the best flyweight in the world at that time.Really, that's what mattered most, as Benny Leonard was so fond of pointing out.But not by sufficient enough of a margin to be named above the likes of Ricardo Lopez, Barrera, Marquez, Morales like he was in the other thread. A fighter with Barrera's talent at that weight would have ripped the division up.As you and Pea are long since well aware, I essentially stopped following boxing as the abolition of the championship distance became established, so I'm admittedly not qualified to judge Canto objectively against successors of the 12 round era.Canto was an ATG flyweight, but deserves to stay well away from any all time P4P lists. People are listing this guy above some great fighters which is insane when people are listing wins over Vargas as among his best.I'm perfectly satisfied with your acceptance of the ATG designation for Canto.

I loved how a bigot like "Flash" Gordon would sometimes write things such as, "All Mexicans have two left feet, with the exception of Miguel Canto." (Laughably, Flash was applying that stereotype to Sal Sanchez when he exempted Canto from his mindless blanket statement.) Canto was a refreshingly different kind of Mexican great, one who shattered the traditional machismo notion of withstanding loads of punishment to bury a hook in the liver, bust up and beat down the opposition.

[essexboy]

You agree Vargas should be in there?
Then you agree Canto's resume is trash.
What did Vargas ever do besides beat up cabbie and struggle against pretty much every competent fighter he fought?


You have good historical knowledge but don't pretend Canto was an ATG just to try and validate having that knowledge.


I am always wrong on this stuff, like when i tried to belittle Ezzard Charles.

But there are two things I have right in this world:
Canto was not a real ATG and and Joe Calzaghe is the all time P4P number one.

Render me speechless. If you tried to belittle the greatest light-heavyweight of all time where do you get off trying to make outrageous claims like this? People like you make me hate Calzaghe which isnt fair on him, maybe its a ploy?

[McGrain]

Render me speechless. If you tried to belittle the greatest light-heavyweight of all time where do you get off trying to make outrageous claims like this? People like you make me hate Calzaghe which isnt fair on him, maybe its a ploy?


:lol:

"Jul 2009". He the best. Best troll on the forum. You got to love him. I mean that though. He's an institution, not even in the same way RedRooster is.

[essexboy]

:lol:

"Jul 2009". He the best. Best troll on the forum. You got to love him. I mean that though. He's an institution, not even in the same way RedRooster is.

Yeah I should have clocked him, nobodies that dumb.

[red cobra]

Miguel Canto is a favorite of mine..he was known to some as a "Mexican Willie Pep"..a great champion, and as far as I'm concerned, this thread is a joke.

[China_hand_Joe]

delted.