Larry Merchant on Hector Camacho......

[JohnThomas1]

"It all ended with Rosario," says HBO boxing analyst Larry Merchant, referring to Camacho's 1986 fight with Edwin Rosario. In that bout, Camacho took his first real beating (though he still won, in a controversial decision). "Rosario was a quick-handed sharpshooter, and when Camacho got hit, he found out he didn't like it. At that point, he decided to work on his personality instead of his prizefighting."

[redrooster]

you act like he lost the fight. Hector has nothing to apologize for. Edwin had a couple big rounds but didn't win the fight. edwin gets 3 rounds from me.

[JohnThomas1]

you act like he lost the fight.

What? I simply posted a comment from Larry Merchant :lol:

Hector has nothing to apologize for.

Man, nab me a pound of what ya smoking :D

Edwin had a couple big rounds but didn't win the fight. edwin gets 3 rounds from me.

This again has little to do with Merchnat's comments. Looks like someone's hiding from something :lol:

The real question is, how did Macho go post Rosario :lol:

[achillesthegreat]

The real question is, how did Macho go post Rosario
This is it. I don't believe Camacho had his track shoes on v Rosario and I don't believe he became a track runner post Rosario.

Camacho moved but I wouldn't simply deem him a runner. I believe Camachos career has more worth than that.

[redrooster]

Achilles makes perfect sense. one fight doesn't make or break a career.

[JohnThomas1]

This is it. I don't believe Camacho had his track shoes on v Rosario and I don't believe he became a track runner post Rosario.

Camacho moved but I wouldn't simply deem him a runner. I believe Camachos career has more worth than that.

The list of experts that cite the Rosario bout as the turning point in Camacho's career is big. I totally agree.

Nobodies saying Camacho's career isn't worth more than that.

[JohnThomas1]

Are you two guys married or something? You sound like that. :D

I think you just brought me back to my senses

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

[Duodenum]

"It all ended with Rosario," says HBO boxing analyst Larry Merchant, referring to Camacho's 1986 fight with Edwin Rosario. In that bout, Camacho took his first real beating (though he still won, in a controversial decision). "Rosario was a quick-handed sharpshooter, and when Camacho got hit, he found out he didn't like it. At that point, he decided to work on his personality instead of his prizefighting."Merchant made that observation about Camacho not liking getting hit over three years too late.

Big, strong, undefeated counterpuncher Cubanito Perez actually exposed him in Phoenix in April 1983. Early in their match, Irleis buckled Hector with bodyshots, when he trapped Camacho in a corner. That exchange completely altered the complexion of their bout, reducing Hector to charging Perez with multiple jabs, then clinching to prevent Cubanito's counters, before the referee broke them up to intitiate the same pattern for the remainder of the bout. I don't remember Perez taking a backward step in that one.

As fast as Camacho was, Cubanito exposed him as somebody who had problems with opponents who were physically stronger than he was. He also exposed Hector as somebody who really didn't like getting pounded downstairs. Truth be told, it amazes me that Camacho went on to have as much success as he did for such a long time afterwards. I expected everybody Hector to faced immediately target his body from that point forth.

I expected Perez to blossom into an ATG after his performance but severe allergies derailed him, crippling his development, and blocking his path to championship status. Just the luck of the draw, I guess.

[JohnThomas1]

Merchant made that observation about Camacho not liking getting hit over three years too late.

Big, strong, undefeated counterpuncher Cubanito Perez actually exposed him in Phoenix in April 1983. Early in their match, Irleis buckled Hector with bodyshots, when he trapped Camacho in a corner. That exchange completely altered the complexion of their bout, reducing Hector to charging Perez with multiple jabs, then clinching to prevent Cubanito's counters, before the referee broke them up to intitiate the same pattern for the remainder of the bout. I don't remember Perez taking a backward step in that one.

As fast as Camacho was, Cubanito exposed him as somebody who had problems with opponents who were physically stronger than he was. He also exposed Hector as somebody who really didn't like getting pounded downstairs. Truth be told, it amazes me that Camacho went on to have as much success as he did for such a long time afterwards. I expected everybody Hector to faced immediately target his body from that point forth.

I expected Perez to blossom into an ATG after his performance but severe allergies derailed him, crippling his development, and blocking his path to championship status. Just the luck of the draw, I guess.

Duo i have to hand it to you, that's one of the better posts i've ever read on here. Unfortunately i haven't actually "seen" that fight but i did read lots about it. Great post man, great post.

[mr. magoo]

Big, strong, undefeated counterpuncher Cubanito Perez actually exposed him in Phoenix in April 1983. Early in their match, Irleis buckled Hector with bodyshots, when he trapped Camacho in a corner. That exchange completely altered the complexion of their bout, reducing Hector to charging Perez with multiple jabs, then clinching to prevent Cubanito's counters, before the referee broke them up to intitiate the same pattern for the remainder of the bout. I don't remember Perez taking a backward step in that one.


There is no such name on Camacho's record. Although you may be reffering to Irleis Perez.

[JohnThomas1]

There is no such name on Camacho's record. Although you may be reffering to Irleis Perez.


Back in the day he was known mostly as Cubanito.

How's things mate, 12.50am!

[Duodenum]

There is no such name on Camacho's record.Wow, you HAVE aptly nicknamed yourself! Go on boxwreck.com, and look up Camacho's entry for 1983-04-03, and you will find 26-0-0 Irleis "Cubanito" Perez on his record (and vice-versa). On the record of Perez, you will indeed find "Cubanito" listed as his alias.

Sincerely,

Deen

[redrooster]

Duo i have to hand it to you, that's one of the better posts i've ever read on here. Unfortunately i haven't actually "seen" that fight but i did read lots about it. Great post man, great post.

you haven't seen most fight you talk about either.

[JohnThomas1]

you haven't seen most fight you talk about either.

Can you say that with a bit better pronunciation so i can follow your comment?

[Duodenum]

Duo i have to hand it to you, that's one of the better posts i've ever read on here. Unfortunately i haven't actually "seen" that fight but i did read lots about it. Great post man, great post.Thanks. It was a stunning turn around from Camacho's one round left uppercut starching of John Montes in Anchorage in his prior match. (If you recall, Hector extended his right jab over Montes's lowered head, holding his right in place so Montes couldn't get away from that lightning bolt shooting up. SRL provided commentary from ringside, and that maneuver turned Ray into a Camacho fan for life. How ironic that over 14 years later, the boxer whose tactic SRL gushed so enthusiatically about would ultimately retire Leonard himself!)

[JohnThomas1]

Thanks. It was a stunning turn around from Camacho's one round left uppercut starching of John Montes in Anchorage in his prior match. (If you recall, Hector extended his right jab over Montes's lowered head, holding his right in place so Montes couldn't get away from that lightning bolt shooting up. SRL provided commentary from ringside, and that maneuver turned Ray into a Camacho fan for life. How ironic that over 14 years later, the boxer whose tactic SRL gushed so enthusiatically about would ultimately retire Leonard himself!)

Yeah, it was ironic to the point of disbelief. Who would have ever dreamed that the much lighter and less historically respected fighter would ever have been in such a position. Age can be such a very weird and indiscriminative thang.

[Duodenum]

Yeah, it was ironic to the point of disbelief. Who would have ever dreamed that the much lighter and less historically respected fighter would ever have been in such a position. Age can be such a very weird and indiscriminative thang.I suppose that's one of the really great things about boxing, that truth really can be wilder than fiction.

[mr. magoo]

Wow, you HAVE aptly nicknamed yourself! Go on boxwreck.com, and look up Camacho's entry for 1983-04-03, and you will find 26-0-0 Irleis "Cubanito" Perez on his record (and vice-versa). On the record of Perez, you will indeed find "Cubanito" listed as his alias.

Sincerely,

Deen

No problem there Duodenum,

How can I compete with one who nicknames himself after a part of the body that is partially responsible for the production of crap. I'd say there's a certain amount of accuracy and merit to this particular alias as well, wouldn't you say DEEN?

And if you read my entire post, I clearly illuded to the fact that you might have been referring to Irleis Perez, but hey why let that stop you from making a good retort?

[redrooster]

Yeah, it was ironic to the point of disbelief. Who would have ever dreamed that the much lighter and less historically respected fighter would ever have been in such a position. Age can be such a very weird and indiscriminative thang.

that's how awesome Hector was in those days and why I, like Ray Leonard, became such a big fan of macho man. His style was also the blueprint for success for another (future) hall of famer whose name is Pernell Whitaker. Maybe you've heard of him.

[redrooster]

No problem there Duodenum,

How can I compete with one who nicknames himself after a part of the body that is partially responsible for the production of crap. I'd say there's a certain amount of accuracy and merit to this particular alias as well, wouldn't you say DEEN?

And if you read my entire post, I clearly illuded to the fact that you might have been referring to Irleis Perez, but hey why let that stop you from making a good retort?

I never knew thats what it was for. Still, Duodenum does not lie and may have a collection fight larger than myself.

[mr. magoo]

I never knew thats what it was for. Still, Duodenum does not lie and may have a collection fight larger than myself.

I'm not calling him a liar. Just a smart ass. And as for both your fight collections, well then good for both of you.

I prefer to jack off to porn as opposed to a grown man who marches into the ring with a gliddered robe and a tutu.

[Hitman]

I'm not calling him a liar. Just a smart ass. And as for both your fight collections, well then good for both of you.

I prefer to jack off to porn as opposed to a grown man who marches into the ring with a gliddered robe and a tutu.

LOL!! Touche!

[redrooster]

I'm not calling him a liar. Just a smart ass. And as for both your fight collections, well then good for both of you.

I prefer to jack off to porn as opposed to a grown man who marches into the ring with a gliddered robe and a tutu.

I think he's been low key and a major contributor to the forum.

[achillesthegreat]

The list of experts that cite the Rosario bout as the turning point in Camacho's career is big. I totally agree.

Nobodies saying Camacho's career isn't worth more than that.
Yes but Camacho wasn't a track star v Rosario. He got hit and hurt but kept boxing and firing off shots.

After that fight I don't believe he became a track star. Like I hate to say it but he wasn't doing no track meet against the bigger Leonard.

[Duodenum]

I'm not calling him a liar. Just a smart ass.:lol:I have to hand to you, Bloss Man, you're the first one who's come right out and called me on the deliberate double meaning nature of my nom de guerre.
Touche'!:pukke

[Duodenum]

I clearly illuded to the fact that you might have been referring to Irleis Perez, but hey why let that stop you from making a good retort?Pun intended?

[JohnThomas1]

I suppose that's one of the really great things about boxing, that truth really can be wilder than fiction.

You got that right. The element of surprise. Actually really enjoyed the Taylor - Pavlik fight yesty, top class little stouch.

[JohnThomas1]

that's how awesome Hector was in those days and why I, like Ray Leonard, became such a big fan of macho man. His style was also the blueprint for success for another (future) hall of famer whose name is Pernell Whitaker. Maybe you've heard of him.

Whitaker, yes. That's the one who beat up Hector in sparring when he was still almost an amateur.

[JohnThomas1]

Yes but Camacho wasn't a track star v Rosario. He got hit and hurt but kept boxing and firing off shots.

After that fight I don't believe he became a track star. Like I hate to say it but he wasn't doing no track meet against the bigger Leonard.

Given Leonard's ability on the night i don't blame him. Hector lost his eagerness for exchanging post Rosario IMO. He stood a bit with light hitting Davis at times and some lesser opposition, but against the stronger fighters he mixed it up less than before. IMO it took away some of his effectiveness. His chin stood up to some decent shots over the years and likely would have allowed him to get in with his blinding speed a bit more and outscore people in combination. IMO Rosario is the hardest hitter ever at 135, getting stunned badly by Rosario and someone else would be two different things. Camacho said he would not fight Rosario again at the time.Second half career he was criticised for not being willing to lay it on the line in order to have a chance at victory.

[Street Lethal]

Why is Hector Camacho being trashed by the same people who praise Ray Leonard? Both were hit-and-clinch fighters! In fact, the Leonard gameplan against Hagler in 1987 was Camacho's standard operating mode! Leonard-Hearns after 12 rounds looked exactly like Chavez-Camacho after 12. Leonard fans ought to be singing Camacho's praises everyday on here. I swear, some days I laugh my ass off at the contradictory positions that fly around this place.

This is of course a problem for Redrooster, too, because he trashes Leonard while praising Camacho. There are differences, though. Camacho fought all the time, while Leonard towards the end only fought for well-orchestrated paydays. Camacho had the better chin and a better defense. Camacho faced top-notch opponents when they were at the peak of their powers rather than waiting until they got old and shopworn (except Leonard, of course, but that was more a fact of Leonard thinking he had an easy target in Camacho).

[Street Lethal]

To say that Camacho lost his eagerness to exchange post-Rosario perfectly parallels the claim that Leonard lost his eagerness to exchange post-Duran. But those people here who love Leonard but trash Camacho will likely never see the corner they paint themselves into.

Note, though, how Leonard is praised for fighting a different type of fight after the first Duran encounter. Leonard couldn't beat Duran man-to-man, just as Camacho had trouble with Rosario man-to-man. Yet Camacho is condemned for changing his style to hit-and-clinch while Leonard is praised for changing his style in exactly the same direction.

A word comes to mind here....

[JohnThomas1]

Why is Hector Camacho being trashed by the same people who praise Ray Leonard? Both were hit-and-clinch fighters!

Well one of them had a stoppage rate of under 50%, while the other actually had 5 or so wins over all time greats. It's sorta like the grand canyon vs a crack in the bedroom wall :yep

Leonard-Hearns after 12 rounds looked exactly like Chavez-Camacho after 12.

Not even close :nut

[JohnThomas1]

To say that Camacho lost his eagerness to exchange post-Rosario perfectly parallels the claim that Leonard lost his eagerness to exchange post-Duran. But those people here who love Leonard but trash Camacho will likely never see the corner they paint themselves into.


Rubbish post. Leonard traded at various times to beat Kalule and Hearns, planted his feet for a compelling stoppage against Lalonde and looked to trade in Hearns II. These were all bigger men than Leonard.

What were you saying about painting oneself into a corner? :smoke

Note, though, how Leonard is praised for fighting a different type of fight after the first Duran encounter. Leonard couldn't beat Duran man-to-man, just as Camacho had trouble with Rosario man-to-man. Yet Camacho is condemned for changing his style to hit-and-clinch while Leonard is praised for changing his style in exactly the same direction.

At least Leonard had the gonads to fight his man again ;)

[redrooster]

Why is Hector Camacho being trashed by the same people who praise Ray Leonard? Both were hit-and-clinch fighters! In fact, the Leonard gameplan against Hagler in 1987 was Camacho's standard operating mode! Leonard-Hearns after 12 rounds looked exactly like Chavez-Camacho after 12. Leonard fans ought to be singing Camacho's praises everyday on here. I swear, some days I laugh my ass off at the contradictory positions that fly around this place.

This is of course a problem for Redrooster, too, because he trashes Leonard while praising Camacho. There are differences, though. Camacho fought all the time, while Leonard towards the end only fought for well-orchestrated paydays. Camacho had the better chin and a better defense. Camacho faced top-notch opponents when they were at the peak of their powers rather than waiting until they got old and shopworn (except Leonard, of course, but that was more a fact of Leonard thinking he had an easy target in Camacho).

Well said Lethal. That JT, what a hypocrite!

[redrooster]

John Thomas why are such a hypocrite?

[JohnThomas1]

John Thomas why are such a hypocrite?

Says the man who preaches Camacho was past his prime vs Haugen yet Leonard was at his best vs Norris

:scaredas:

[redrooster]

Says the man who preaches Camacho was past his prime vs Haugen yet Leonard was at his best vs Norris

:scaredas:

are you comparing Haugen with Norris the greatest, fastest, meanest ever superwelter and...hall of famer? If so you shouldn't post here anymore.

btw, that chics hot but her face is messed up. change the picture until I tell you to stop.

[Robot16]

IMO who cares if he didnt like getting hit, give him credit then for still getting into the ring and boxing alot of fighters.
He didnt like getting hit but still took that chance.

[Street Lethal]

are you comparing Haugen with Norris the greatest, fastest, meanest ever superwelter and...hall of famer? If so you shouldn't post here anymore.

btw, that chics hot but her face is messed up. change the picture until I tell you to stop.
It's a boy's face.

[JohnThomas1]

It's a boy's face.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Would you like a towel for that egg on your face?

:smoke

[Duodenum]

IMO Rosario is the hardest hitter ever at 135, getting stunned badly by Rosario and someone else would be two different things.If you recall, the iron chinned Ramirez did assert, in no uncertain terms, that El Chapo was indeed a much harder puncher than the placement specialist Arguello, immediately after their first 12 rounder. (Of course in the eventual rematch, Edwin decked Jose twice, lending further credence to Ramirez's claim.)Camacho said he would not fight Rosario again at the time.All the more remarkable because, for all of Hector's skirt wearing, cutie style of boxing, and showboating antics, he was a genuinely tough streetfighter in his youth, not the sort to be taken on in a back alley.

Rosario's right hand off the ropes looked as though it might sent Ed Viruet's jaw flying across the ring, and into the third row. Throughout his first bout with Ramirez, Rosario kept rocking back and forth on his toes, shifting weight continually from left to right leg, shoulders squared up to Ramirez, and he looked as though he was actually driving his punches through Jose's head. (I do consider Jose Luis Ramirez to have an ATG chin at 135.) That Ramirez did box with his shoulders squared up also made it a bit more of a challenge to predict which side his next punch was coming from.

I do not believe Rosario would be a hall of famer if the 15 round limit had remained in place throughout his career, but that does not mean I take him lightly. He could very definitely punch!

[JohnThomas1]

If you recall, the iron chinned Ramirez did assert, in no uncertain terms, that El Chapo was indeed a much harder puncher than the placement specialist Arguello, immediately after their first 12 rounder. (Of course in the eventual rematch, Edwin decked Jose twice, lending further credence to Ramirez's claim.)All the more remarkable because, for all of Hector's skirt wearing, cutie style of boxing, and showboating antics, he was a genuinely tough streetfighter in his youth, not the sort to be taken on in a back alley.

Rosario's right hand off the ropes looked as though it might sent Ed Viruet's jaw flying across the ring, and into the third row. Throughout his first bout with Ramirez, Rosario kept rocking back and forth on his toes, shifting weight continually from left to right leg, shoulders squared up to Ramirez, and he looked as though he was actually driving his punches through Jose's head. (I do consider Jose Luis Ramirez to have an ATG chin at 135.) That Ramirez did box with his shoulders squared up also made it a bit more of a challenge to predict which side his next punch was coming from.

I do not believe Rosario would be a hall of famer if the 15 round limit had remained in place throughout his career, but that does not mean I take him lightly. He could very definitely punch!

Love ya work! Rosario is perhaps my favourite lightweight ever, not the best or even close i know, but there was that something about him. I must have watched that right hand vs Viruet 20 times over, lord what a shot. I agree that the Ramirez chin is rock.

[young griffo]

Love ya work! Rosario is perhaps my favourite lightweight ever, not the best or even close i know, but there was that something about him. I must have watched that right hand vs Viruet 20 times over, lord what a shot. I agree that the Ramirez chin is rock.
What can you tell me about Chavez-Rosario JT?
I've not been lucky enough to see it but have heard that Chavez absolutely destroyed Edwin.

Did Rosario manage to land anything of note on Julio to make it interesting or was it a beat down?

One fight I did see was Ramirez-Rosario 2 and it was an absolute beauty,automatically one of my favourites after a single viewing.

[redrooster]

Love ya work! Rosario is perhaps my favourite lightweight ever, not the best or even close i know, but there was that something about him. I must have watched that right hand vs Viruet 20 times over, lord what a shot. I agree that the Ramirez chin is rock.

i know what you mean. you never knew if he'd come out of it standing or on his back. what a crappy chin.

and Griffo, Rosario looked resembled a mugging victim after 11 rounds with chavez.

[achillesthegreat]

Given Leonard's ability on the night i don't blame him. Hector lost his eagerness for exchanging post Rosario IMO. He stood a bit with light hitting Davis at times and some lesser opposition, but against the stronger fighters he mixed it up less than before. IMO it took away some of his effectiveness. His chin stood up to some decent shots over the years and likely would have allowed him to get in with his blinding speed a bit more and outscore people in combination. IMO Rosario is the hardest hitter ever at 135, getting stunned badly by Rosario and someone else would be two different things. Camacho said he would not fight Rosario again at the time.Second half career he was criticised for not being willing to lay it on the line in order to have a chance at victory.
I agree Leonard was shot to shit but I still disagree that Camacho was some chickent shit track star.

[My dinner with Conteh]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Would you like a towel for that egg on your face?

:smoke


Egg? Omelette I think. :hey

[redrooster]

I agree Leonard was shot to shit but I still disagree that Camacho was some chickent shit track star.

that's right John. why don't you try being honest for once.

[JohnThomas1]

What can you tell me about Chavez-Rosario JT?
I've not been lucky enough to see it but have heard that Chavez absolutely destroyed Edwin.

Did Rosario manage to land anything of note on Julio to make it interesting or was it a beat down?

One fight I did see was Ramirez-Rosario 2 and it was an absolute beauty,automatically one of my favourites after a single viewing.

Chavez smothered him and beat him down with ease Griffo. I was most disappointed. I recall in the latter stages of the fight Rosario did land one biggie in close, but not big enough. Chavez starved him of punching room and put on an inside fighting clinic.

[JohnThomas1]

Egg? Omelette I think. :hey

:lol:

[JohnThomas1]

I agree Leonard was shot to shit but I still disagree that Camacho was some chickent shit track star.

When push come to shove Camacho lacked that certain little X-factor to become an ATG. He had all the talent, but lacked that extra bit of heart needed to reach the pinnacle at the end of the day. That real grit. His fellow light hitting speedster Pernell Whitaker had it in spades when needed. Whitaker ended up a genuine great, while Camacho fell short.

[achillesthegreat]

When push come to shove Camacho lacked that certain little X-factor to become an ATG. He had all the talent, but lacked that extra bit of heart needed to reach the pinnacle at the end of the day. That real grit. His fellow light hitting speedster Pernell Whitaker had it in spades when needed. Whitaker ended up a genuine great, while Camacho fell short.
I think Camacho was a great fighter. A lower level. Like Hernandez, McGuigan etc They got one solid win and good wins, Camacho built up a better career overall. Nevertheless it resulted in being recognised as something special. He wasn't Leonard or Robinson but someone can remain a factor in the game for as long as he did, it has to be respected. Plus, when all is said and done, no one really put him away. When you've faced DLH, Tito, Chavez etc that is special.

Camcho was a top dog but he never did have that x factor. That extra something that brought out those special nights but I believe he did a good job nevertheless.

[Duodenum]

Rosario is perhaps my favourite lightweight ever, not the best or even close i know, but there was that something about him. I must have watched that right hand vs Viruet 20 times over, lord what a shot.And even more astonishing, didn't Viruet actually beat the count in getting back up? (That's what I recall from distant memory.)

JT, you may recall, as an interesting side-note to Rosario/Viruet, the drastic change in Viruet's style over his previous few matches to how he had boxed through most of his career.

Even the most "feather fisted" world class boxers can deliver a punch with significant clout when they choose to. Viruet's contemporary and rival, Vilomar Fernandez, decked Howard Davis Jr. in round two, and chased him all over the ring. In one of his final televised appearances, Fernandez also seriously buckled his opponent early in round one. (I forget if it was Angel Cruz or Billy Parks.) Vilomar also retired Monroe Brooks in two rounds.

While I only saw Fernandez volitionally deviate from his safety first style for his vicious assault against Davis, Edwin Viruet was an entirely different matter. Sometime after his split decision loss to DeJesus, he turned into a super-aggressive attacker, slamming bodyshots underneath, and pummeling outclassed and overmatched adversaries, beginning a three bout knockout streak by dispatching Stormin' Norm Goins in nine.

(Afterwards, he provided an entertainingly belligerent and rousing post fight interview in ring center for the viewing audience. For somebody with whom English was a second language, Eddie V. could always raise a storm when a microphone and camera were broadcasting his messages, especially with the pugnacious expressions he fixed directly at the viewer. Hell, I thought he was a better postfight interview than Ali! What a delightfully nasty attitude!)

It was certainly a far more audience friendly style that he had adopted, but still, it was taking him eight or nine rounds to finally beat his victims down for the count. If Viruet had used the earlier style which allowed him to twice survive against, frustrate, and piss off Duran so much with Rosario, he might have survived the distance. But his newly developed in-ring aggression was reviving his career. It was also a suicidal way to combat El Chapo, who immediately demonstrated his ring generalship and mastery of Viruet.

Too bad Viruet couldn't have beaten up some more bums on the tube before taking on somebody of Rosario's calibre, just so he could have given some more of those pugnacious post fight self-promotions. (Remember how, while Duran was waiting for the decision to be announced after his ten rounder with Adolfo Viruet, he walked right up to brother Edwin, dressed in street clothes, and punched him in the mouth? If Duran and Eddie V. ever meet for a boxing exhibition, or even on the street, send me a ticket! Roberto might have been able to make peace with DeJesus, but I suspect he and the Viruet boys will always get along about as well as Giardello and Fullmer.)

[JohnThomas1]

I think Camacho was a great fighter. A lower level. Like Hernandez, McGuigan etc They got one solid win and good wins, Camacho built up a better career overall. Nevertheless it resulted in being recognised as something special. He wasn't Leonard or Robinson but someone can remain a factor in the game for as long as he did, it has to be respected. Plus, when all is said and done, no one really put him away. When you've faced DLH, Tito, Chavez etc that is special.

Camcho was a top dog but he never did have that x factor. That extra something that brought out those special nights but I believe he did a good job nevertheless.

We're not far from being in the same boat. I'd rate him on a similar level to Starling to be honest with the proviso Camacho had the talent to maybe go a bit further.

[JohnThomas1]

I'll respond to your excellent post when i have better time later Duo, fascinating stuff mate!

[redrooster]

We're not far from being in the same boat. I'd rate him on a similar level to Starling to be honest with the proviso Camacho had the talent to maybe go a bit further.

:lol: starling was a bum. Hector's a legend with more titles than you could shake a stick at.

[JohnThomas1]

:lol: starling was a bum.

You'd better reassess Camacho then

:lol:

Hector's a legend with more titles than you could shake a stick at.

A legend in his own lunchbox. Titles? Just two. He didn't beat the top fighter for his title at 130 nor beat the best of the division, exactly the same at 135 excepting Rosario who wasn't the top fighter at the time and many thought beat him, and we won't even talk about that matchbox BO title at 140. Lets face it, Hector didn't beat the top fighter in any division he fought in, these are the facts. He fought a few, but got beaten everytime. There's a barometer right there

:good

[redrooster]

A legend in his own lunchbox. Titles? Just two. He didn't beat the top fighter for his title at 130 nor beat the best of the division, exactly the same at 135 excepting Rosario who wasn't the top fighter at the time and many thought beat him, and we won't even talk about that matchbox BO title at 140. Lets face it, Hector didn't beat the top fighter in any division he fought in, these are the facts. He fought a few, but got beaten everytime. There's a barometer right there

:good

you're the only person who holds that view. mayweather was candidate for crappy chin of the year and shouldn't even have been in boxing.

"Many thought beat him" who's "many", you? Are you the "many" you're talking about?

You don't win fights winning just three out of 12 rounds, its mathematically impossible.

Hector beat your man and you just can't admit it. it's nice for edwin to have that consolation prize of wba championship. its a good thing the title was split.

[JohnThomas1]

you're the only person who holds that view. mayweather was candidate for crappy chin of the year and shouldn't even have been in boxing.


Mayweather was considering alongside Camacho at the time, there was no talk of crappy chins and the like yet. Not bad, winning a title for someone who shouldn't have been in boxing :lol:

"Many thought beat him" who's "many", you? Are you the "many" you're talking about?

4/5's of his homeland actually. Our very own SS too.

You don't win fights winning just three out of 12 rounds, its mathematically impossible.

Exactly, so stop whining about Hagler - Leonard

:rofl

Hector beat your man and you just can't admit it. it's nice for edwin to have that consolation prize of wba championship. its a good thing the title was split.

Hector sure wasn't going near the Bramble El Chapo beat for the title, was he :hey

Close fight, a draw would have been fair.

[redrooster]

Mayweather was considering alongside Camacho at the time, there was no talk of crappy chins and the like yet. Not bad, winning a title for someone who shouldn't have been in boxing

I suppose that means I should overlook the fact roger crumpled like a cheap deck of cards the following year. because there was no talk of his crappy chin at the time, that makes Roger the #1 titlist that Hector "failed" to meet.

And lets not forget the reason why Roger was so highly touted-----the reason is?

Roger was half champ for less than one year. :happy


Exactly, so stop whining about Hagler - Leonard



:lol: whatever you say Jo-jo

Hector sure wasn't going near the Bramble El Chapo beat for the title, was he

why should he? Hector won and was the champ-and Hector's not interested in fighting retreads like Rosario, much less a guy edwin retread ko'd in two.

[JohnThomas1]

I suppose that means I should overlook the fact roger crumpled like a cheap deck of cards the following year. because there was no talk of his crappy chin at the time, that makes Roger the #1 titlist that Hector "failed" to meet.


The following year doesn't count sorry. Mayweather pre Lockridge was considered all but on par with Camacho, on par for some.

And lets not forget the reason why Roger was so highly touted-----the reason is?

If you were as well travelled back in the 80's as you claim you wouldn't need be asking. Maybe you are like the barbers cat, full of piss and wind :lol:

why should he? Hector won and was the champ-and Hector's not interested in fighting retreads like Rosario, much less a guy edwin retread ko'd in two.

I meant pre Rosario. Hector went for the much slower and better stylistic fit in Ramirez. Still possibly his best win ever tho. I'd say it might be his best exhibition. I am not so agenda laden as to claim this wasn't a superb performance. Ramirez suited him, and Camacho sure put on a helluva display.

[redrooster]

The following year doesn't count sorry. Mayweather pre Lockridge was considered all but on par with Camacho, on par for some.



you mean highly regarded before he was actually tested-before 'some' you mentioned found out he had no chin. another case of jumping to conclusions.



If you were as well travelled back in the 80's as you claim you wouldn't need be asking. Maybe you are like the barbers cat, full of piss and wind :lol:

and maybe you can't answer the question instead of trying to get me to answer it for you.


I meant pre Rosario. Hector went for the much slower and better stylistic fit in Ramirez. Still possibly his best win ever tho. I'd say it might be his best exhibition. I am not so agenda laden as to claim this wasn't a superb performance. Ramirez suited him, and Camacho sure put on a helluva display.

what do you mean pre rosario? you act as tho rosario is responsible for changing hector's disposition towards fighting when Duodenum straightend out the story but you go on like a broken record "pre-rosario, post rosario".

you'd love to have that glass jawed punching bag take responsibility for it i know how you love the guy, but its embarrassing how you go on about him. Achilles the great gave example that hector took it to the bigger man in his win over leonard which despite what you say, did much better than he was expected especially the way he forced the fight. and his style employed with davis is the camacho of old, the fearless, flawless fighting machine. you just dredge up shit you saw mentioned in some magazines. i know because i've seen those same articles and john, i'm not bothering to read your message until next month so you'll just have to wait until i get back to you. sorry :lol:

[Rubber Warrior]

"It all ended with Rosario," says HBO boxing analyst Larry Merchant, referring to Camacho's 1986 fight with Edwin Rosario. In that bout, Camacho took his first real beating (though he still won, in a controversial decision). "Rosario was a quick-handed sharpshooter, and when Camacho got hit, he found out he didn't like it. At that point, he decided to work on his personality instead of his prizefighting."
Camacho was more preoccupied with his outside of the ring antics more than anything at that point. Being a young man, partying and frolic were beginning to sap his ethic. His focus suffered and he could not get by on sheer natural ability alone.

Rosario woke him up. It was a match where he'd been hit harder and asked more questions than ever before. He had to dig-in and grit his teeth. He got by, barely, because he was in great shape and he had a knack for escape and survival. He didn't expect to have to fight.

From then on there, Camacho always looked to "pull a Rosario" whenever faced with a stern test or a fight. We saw it with Chavez, Trinidad and Oscar.

In 1986, Hector learned that 1983 was long gone.

[JohnThomas1]

Camacho was more preoccupied with his outside of the ring antics more than anything at that point. Being a young man, partying and frolic were beginning to sap his ethic. His focus suffered and he could not get by on sheer natural ability alone.

Rosario woke him up. It was a match where he'd been hit harder and asked more questions than ever before. He had to dig-in and grit his teeth. He got by, barely, because he was in great shape and he had a knack for escape and survival. He didn't expect to have to fight.

From then on there, Camacho always looked to "pull a Rosario" whenever faced with a stern test or a fight. We saw it with Chavez, Trinidad and Oscar.

In 1986, Hector learned that 1983 was long gone.

Man, good to see you posting!

[JohnThomas1]

i'm not bothering to read your message until next month so you'll just have to wait until i get back to you. sorry :lol:

Why you im'ed me after all these years to childishly gloat i'll never know, but kindly refrain from messaging me again.

You've been told

:good

[redrooster]

Why you im'ed me after all these years to childishly gloat i'll never know, but kindly refrain from messaging me again.

You've been told

:good

okay John. i'll read it later just so you'll cheer up. :good

[redrooster]

John, did you get my latest pm? I'm all over your ass today. btw, that chic's a dog.

[young griffo]

John, did you get my latest pm? I'm all over your ass today. btw, that chic's a dog.
You're kidding aren't you Rooster,that girl in John's avatar is beautiful.

Almost as beautiful as the right hand Julian Jackson planted on Terrible Terry in the second round.

You don't see something as pretty as that very often except for maybe Hector Camacho's face after Julio Cesar Chavez got through with him.Now that was a beautiful sight to see.:thumbsup

[redrooster]

You're kidding aren't you Rooster,that girl in John's avatar is beautiful.

Almost as beautiful as the right hand Julian Jackson planted on Terrible Terry in the second round.

You don't see something as pretty as that very often except for maybe Hector Camacho's face after Julio Cesar Chavez got through with him.Now that was a beautiful sight to see.:thumbsup

I've seen better like the pretty red face Ms. Oscar gave Chavez.

not like that ugly thing sticking out of John's avatar-that chic's a dog.

[mr. magoo]

I've seen better like the pretty red face Ms. Oscar gave Chavez.

not like that ugly thing sticking out of John's avatar-that chic's a dog.

Some how, I get the strange incling that perhaps you might rid that girl's stool of peanuts if given the opportunity.

I know I would.

[redrooster]

lady looks like a dude it's enough to throw me off my game. john should choose his women more carefully.

[JohnThomas1]

You're kidding aren't you Rooster,that girl in John's avatar is beautiful.

Almost as beautiful as the right hand Julian Jackson planted on Terrible Terry in the second round.

You don't see something as pretty as that very often except for maybe Hector Camacho's face after Julio Cesar Chavez got through with him.Now that was a beautiful sight to see.:thumbsup

She's rated top 10 in the world by mostly every organisation that matters. Her looks only earned her a paltry $6 million in 2007 :lol:

Tho she's gorgeous, i think she takes a back seat to that gargantual right hand Jackson ko'ed Norris with. Bit of a waste tho due to overkill. 1/10 of that blow would have put china chin Terry to sleep.

[mr. magoo]

I remember watching Simon Brown move up in weight class and utterly destroy Norris. That was an incredible site.

[JohnThomas1]

I remember watching Simon Brown move up in weight class and utterly destroy Norris. That was an incredible site.

Brown wasn't exactly a monster hitter at 147 either, yet he sure starched Terry. Norris was only 26 too, damn! Had some speed and good skills, but that chin, jeez!

[redrooster]

She's rated top 10 in the world by mostly every organisation that matters. Her looks only earned her a paltry $6 million in 2007 :lol:

Tho she's gorgeous, i think she takes a back seat to that gargantual right hand Jackson ko'ed Norris with. Bit of a waste tho due to overkill. 1/10 of that blow would have put china chin Terry to sleep.

Jackson's one of my favorites too! :lol:

[JohnThomas1]

Jackson's one of my favorites too! :lol:

And i give a damn because......?

:lol:

[redrooster]

^ could you tell me again who Roger mayweather was and what distinguished him at 130-in 500 words or less.