The most over-rated so called all time great in history?

[brown bomber]

Who was it? Not trying to discredit any fighters here but some fighters seem to gain the all time great accolade under very strange circumstances! You can be a good, very capable fighter without joining the best of all time....

The obvious choice is Joe C, but we've debated him to death.... I've got two more..... First Kostya Tszyu.....What? When and how did he become an all time great? He was really good wasn't he ut he beat hardly anyone of note in their prime!!! Very powerful but who is he greater than?

Carlos Monzon.... I've heard a few call him the best ever but having watched him I can't see what made him so outstanding. The middleweight division seemed beriffed of talent and he scored wins over Benny Briscoe and a decrepid Emile Griffith... But no -one else... any thoughts?

[MIK1000]

Rocky Marciano

[Boro chris]

Who was it? Not trying to discredit any fighters here but some fighters seem to gain the all time great accolade under very strange circumstances! You can be a good, very capable fighter without joining the best of all time....

The obvious choice is Joe C, but we've debated him to death.... I've got two more..... First Kostya Tszyu.....What? When and how did he become an all time great? He was really good wasn't he ut he beat hardly anyone of note in their prime!!! Very powerful but who is he greater than?

Carlos Monzon.... I've heard a few call him the best ever but having watched him I can't see what made him so outstanding. The middleweight division seemed beriffed of talent and he scored wins over Benny Briscoe and a decrepid Emile Griffith... But no -one else... any thoughts?

No ones calling JC an atg that I know of. (GF dosen't count as its a hive of cretins.) Monzon is a fantastic mw with a wonderfull control of distance, great timing, good power, rolls royce of a jab, prodigious physical strength. Clearly an atg and the best mw I've ever seen. He's not particularly fast or flashy so maybe thats why he dosen't impress you. As for KT, certainly not an atg but if anyone in the gf thinks so who gives a fuck?

[BamBam]

Rocky Marciano

I don't know what Jeffros parameters for this are but I find that very harsh. He beat everyone there was to beat. If anyone took him the distance he gave them a rematch and knocked them out. I really don't know what else he could do. I mean I get why people think hes rated too highly sometimes but winning all his fights and KO'ing 90% of his opponents is about all the man could have done

[brown bomber]

No ones calling JC an atg that I know of. (GF dosen't count as its a hive of cretins.) Monzon is a fantastic mw with a wonderfull control of distance, great timing, good power, rolls royce of a jab, prodigious physical strength. Clearly an atg and the best mw I've ever seen. He's not particularly fast or flashy so maybe thats why he dosen't impress you. As for KT, certainly not an atg but if anyone in the gf thinks so who gives a fuck?:D heers i'll re watch

[GazOC]

I don't know what Jeffros parameters for this are but I find that very harsh. He beat everyone there was to beat. If anyone took him the distance he gave them a rematch and knocked them out. I really don't know what else he could do. I mean I get why people think hes rated too highly sometimes but winning all his fights and KO'ing 90% of his opponents is about all the man could have done

TBH he couldn't have done a lot more but he was around at a pretty weak time in his division (not his fault!) and gets too much credit for his career from some of quarters for a variety of reasons (HW, white, American, unbeaten).

[Guy]

Ali thought Marciano would have been his toughest fight.

[NO MAS]

Mike Tyson beat all comers ( many bums ) on his way to the title but when he came up against some opposition that did not shit themselves or get draggged in by intimidation he was beatable...:yep

Many class Tyson as an ATG, I class him as a World Champion from his era...that's it...:yep

[GazOC]

Ali thought Marciano would have been his toughest fight.


Was he trying to sell that computer fight at the time???;)

[Guy]

Was he trying to sell that computer fight at the time???;)


How did you know!!:lol:

[GazOC]

Fucking hell!!! 9 posts in and we've already slagged of The Rock and Tyson, this thread is going to go for pages.....:lol:

[GazOC]

How did you know!!:lol:

I'm a cynical old fart!!:D

[Boro chris]

Do you realise how sad we are posting on this site over new years?!?:patsch

[GazOC]

Do you realise how sad we are posting on this site over new years?!?:patsch

:lol: I'm a "boxing day" man myself. The pubs are too busy and full of idiots on new years eve. I'll have a good day out tomorrow when things have got back to 'normal'.

[Guy]

I'm a cynical old fart!!:D

:yepAs the years clock up that does click in doesn't it, I'm afraid I'm turning into a real grumpy old bastard...

New Years Resolution, let shit fly by me a bit more

[Guy]

:lol: I'm a "boxing day" man myself. The pubs are too busy and full of idiots on new years eve. I'll have a good day out tomorrow when things have got back to 'normal'.

I'm with you mate, Boxing Days party day and New Years day is undervalued!!

[NO MAS]

This is a great site to be on 365 days a year, my girl said I can't believe your on fuckin Eastside on NYE, as she was watching Graham Norton...!

I like going out in the afternoon sessions and getting in about 9 before it starts going daft, that is usually the time when the local dickheads have had 3 pints of what the fuck are you looking at...!!! and it starts going Pete Tong...!!

[GazOC]

This is a great site to be on 365 days a year, my girl said I can't believe your on fuckin Eastside on NYE, as she was watching Graham Norton...!

"Pot, kettle, black...":lol:

I like going out in the afternoon sessions and getting in about 9 before it starts going daft, that is usually the time when the local dickheads have had 3 pints if what the fuck are you looking at...and it starts going Pete Tong...!!

Yeah, I'm the same these days. Out for 3 and back home before 10 and the aggro starts.

[Grant1]

I see I've stumbled into the 'I hate NYE thread'.

Couldn't agree more lads. Shit tonight. Magic tomorrow.

[NO MAS]

"Pot, kettle, black...":lol:



Yeah, I'm the same these days. Out for 3 and back home before 10 and the aggro starts.

Yep, she certainly called the Kettle...I used to think I posted regular... Since I have got an iPhone I am never off here now... Fuckin awesome for me, iPod and Eastside, total peace and quiet with no distractions...!!!...:good

[GazOC]

I'm with you mate, Boxing Days party day and New Years day is undervalued!!
:good

[john b]

"Pot, kettle, black...":lol:



Yeah, I'm the same these days. Out for 3 and back home before 10 and the aggro starts.

Spot on its just the cities and town in England that are shite its full of numpties who can't enjoy themselves. Such as Oldham my home town which is like the wild west.

[icemax]

Was he trying to sell that computer fight at the time???;)

In 1968 he said that Jack Johnson and Rocky would be his toughest fights....no video games then

[GazOC]

In 1968 he said that Jack Johnson and Rocky would be his toughest fights....no video games then

Not bloody videogames:p, I meant that Ali-Marciano computer fight they mocked up with Rocky wearing a wig.

[Guy]

Muhammad got computerised....".so what was it like when you got computerised Ali??"

[themacallan]

if lennox lewis is considered an ATG then him.

[Diablo]

Another Calzaghe troll thread by Jeff Thomas...I think you've got your new years resulution! Stop fucking posting about Joe Calzaghe. Lets move on.

[scrap]

Thoughts on SRR I think He was overated

[TFFP]

Thoughts on SRR I think He was overated
:roll:

[scrap]

:roll: :hi:

[BamBam]

A problem with Marciano, granted the divison wasn't too strong when he was around, is that you can't really compare him to that many boxers who came after him. Just after his era came to a close heavyweights reverted to the bigger, taller, heavier men we know today.

Marciano is an oversized Light Heavyweight or an undersized Cruiserweight by todays standards. 5"10 and 184-188 lbs. You can't fantasy matchup that kind of stuff against todays boxers so it makes it very hard to say 'Marciano would have beaten ...' because if he were around later on he wouldn't have been campaigning at heavy. I'd just give him credit for what he did without going overboard but also without caning him for the fact no one else was around at that time.

I found ESPN list of top 50 all time greats.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Ones I have doubts over

#39 DLH
#31 Billy Conn

Then again its late and my brain ain't working too well

[scrap]

In thelast 15 years Heard some Strange Storys about SRR and doing a bit of Digging, the Storys hold up. Its who was running Boxing at the time, if you mainlined at certain venues you were in, check what his Manager did for a living. Plus for who He was He wasnt paid a lot, suppose thats why He Boxed a lot

[TFFP]

I'm pretty sure Marciano would fair well at light heavyweight or cruiserweight today or in any other era.

[BamBam]

I think the would have had to invent a new division for him since he splits LHW and Cruiser so well being 10-12lbs over and under either weight respectively.

Marciano the undisputed Light Cruiserweight/Super Light Heavyweight king :huh :good

[TFFP]

But then again he wasn't trying to kill himself to get an advantage like every fighter today. He probably just trained until he was ready to fight since he knew he was fighting at heavyweight. You have to think if he had the benefit of sports scientists, physios, conditioners and all this other stuff he'd have been able to make 175 quite easy. He wasn't a massively built guy.

[China_hand_Joe]

Miguel Canto

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Look at his record, then look at the records of the very few fighters he beat who appear to have decent records such as Vargas. Even their records are horrifically padded.

People in the classic forum are calling him the 4th best Mexican fighter of all time and a top 50 ATG.

Does anyone else see how unspectacular his resume is? Probably the best in his weight in his day, but nothing on the all time P4P scale.

[Casamayor122]

The obvious choice is Joe C, but we've debated him to death.... I've got two more..... First Kostya Tszyu.....What? When and how did he become an all time great? He was really good wasn't he ut he beat hardly anyone of note in their prime!!! Very powerful but who is he greater than?


Really bad choices as both are considered borderline ATGs at best.

Who did Chavez beat? How did he become an ATG?
Who did Ricardo Lopez beat in the weakest division in boxing to be considered an ATG?

Tszyu was so overrated that he was The Ring TOP10 rated in his weight class in his 1st year as a pro. That's unheard of! You're are looking for a superstar name on his resume? As I said before who did Chavez beat? Resume is only part of the equation.

The most overrated "ATG"? There is stiff competition for this one. A good candidate would be Carlos Zarate.

Let me put it this way. If Hamed fought in the 1960s he'd be an ATG with his resume. If there was very little video footage of him he'd be a TOP40 ATG.

[Cobbler]

I think the would have had to invent a new division for him since he splits LHW and Cruiser so well being 10-12lbs over and under either weight respectively.

Marciano the undisputed Light Cruiserweight/Super Light Heavyweight king :huh :good

That's with sameday weigh-ins and presumably no reason to actually cut weight though and he still weighed in in the high 170s for fights late in his career.

Marciano today with weigh-ins the day before the fight, the nutritional knowledge that we now have and actually trying to cut weight would probably make supermiddleweight fairly comfortably, nevermind light heavyweight or cruiser.

[slip&counter]

Miguel Canto

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Look at his record, then look at the records of the very few fighters he beat who appear to have decent records such as Vargas. Even their records are horrifically padded.

People in the classic forum are calling him the 4th best Mexican fighter of all time and a top 50 ATG.

Does anyone else see how unspectacular his resume is? Probably the best in his weight in his day, but nothing on the all time P4P scale.

:patsch

get the heck outta here you fool, canto is one of the most skilled fighters of all time and only behind morales, barrera, sanchez and chavez in the list of mexican greats.

have you ever seen the guy fight? do you know anything about him, his era, circumstances...or are you just one of those annoying casuals who plays resume wars. Looks like you just plucked his name outta boxrec without realising you're discrediting one of the best to ever display the science.

[icemax]

Thoughts on SRR I think He was overated

:huh The man fought in 51 fights against top ten contenders at a time when top ten actually meant top ten...no ABC titles then. He also took on 14 current Hall of Famers, I fail to see how he can actually be viewed as overrated with a record like that.

[icemax]

:patsch

get the heck outta here you fool, canto is one of the most skilled fighters of all time and only behind morales, barrera, sanchez and chavez in the list of mexican greats.

I don't know about ATG but he was a joy to watch...unrivalled speed, stamina, footwork and counter-punching ability...an absolute joy.

[China_hand_Joe]

:patsch

get the heck outta here you fool, canto is one of the most skilled fighters of all time and only behind morales, barrera, sanchez and chavez in the list of mexican greats.

have you ever seen the guy fight? do you know anything about him, his era, circumstances...or are you just one of those annoying casuals who plays resume wars. Looks like you just plucked his name outta boxrec without realising you're discrediting one of the best to ever display the science.

Apparently Canto is ahead of Morales, Sanchez and Barrera which is where my problems stems from.

He is an ATG flyweight I do not doubt that, but 90% of people in the classic forum here are putting him ahead of those names, based on him having a pretty style.

[kurt2006]

Bhops takes my vote the guy has been a complete bore to watch over the last few years.

[dan-b]

I think ATG is just something that's throw around like P4P these days. It makes me laugh people say things like "I have him between 90 and 100 but, if he beats this guy, he moves up to 70", when they've never even ranked that many fighters.

[Boro chris]

I feel like a pig shat in my head.:tired

[GazOC]

Fair comments on Marciano, judging him as a modern Cruiserweight would be kinder on him then throwing him the "above 175lbs" class (ie. the heavies). I just find some of the claims made about what he could have done against Liston, Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Lewis etc a little crazy sometimes given his physical attributes and who he actually managed to beat (and how he beat them).

[GPater11093]

Carlos Monzon.... I've heard a few call him the best ever but having watched him I can't see what made him so outstanding. The middleweight division seemed beriffed of talent and he scored wins over Benny Briscoe and a decrepid Emile Griffith... But no -one else... any thoughts?

:nono:nono

Watch him again as a boxer i thought you would appreciate how much of a ring general he was? Could you imagiine trying to fight him?

Also his wins over Rodrigo Valdez are very good, aswell as his wins over Benvenuti that are great.

come on Jeff


#31 Billy Conn


Thats fair enough Conn was an excellant fighter look at his record a very dominant Light Heavyweight. Good placing of him.

I don't know about ATG but he was a joy to watch...unrivalled speed, stamina, footwork and counter-punching ability...an absolute joy.

I misread that and thought you said he had punching ability, but i agree completly with you and he is a top 10 Flyweight.

No-one i would consider an ATG i think is overrated.

[BamBam]

Upon reflection (i said I wasn't sure at the time) I think Conn is fair enough but too highly placed for my liking. I'd drop him back 10 or so spots. I actually must try and do my top 50 ATG list someday. It'll take a while mind you

[Beeston Brawler]

I think old fighters are generally overrated - this is a boxing thing though..... it isn't so much the case in other sports I'm interested in.

[GPater11093]

why is that Beeston that you think old timers are overrated?

[Betty Swollocks]

agree on Tszyu, his big wins came against over the hill fighters.

J.LCastillo, many say he's an ATG but no way, he lost plenty of times and got overrrated from the 2 fights with the chinny Chico, where he cheated on the scales in the rematch.

[Beeston Brawler]

why is that Beeston that you think old timers are overrated?

Erm....

Not really sure how to explain it, it's just an opinion that I have..... probably read the classic forum too much :yep

I mean, I'd never try and say that the current era is better than say the 1980's - for instance the middleweight division is awful, led by a champion yet to make a defence against a top 10 160lb'er in more than 2yrs as champ.... compared to the fab four and other guys around at that time.

But I think judgements passed on a lot of current/recently retired fighters is pretty harsh. I think that a guy like Mayweather could hang with the best guys and beat nearly all of them from 135-147, as well as being the best of all at 130lbs..... whilst I also think that a guy like Marciano wasn't as good as a lot of boxing historians try to convince us of.

Just a feeling I have, that's all. In 20 years time my opinion will probably be the opposite..... the standard of amateur boxing (due in no small part to the scoring system) is nowhere near what it was around the 1988 Olympics.

I mean, look at guys to come out of the 84, 88 & 92 games..... Whitaker, DLH, Jones, Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield, even fringe guys like Golota.

A fair % of boxers knocking around these days didn't have stellar amateur careers, to my knowledge.

[Primadonna Kool]

Don't know if he is a all time great......

But i think JMM is overrated...!

[Addie]

Don't know if he is a all time great......

But i think JMM is overrated...!

I love to watch Marquez fight, but anyone who holds him in higher esteem than his contemporaries Erik Morales and Marco Antonio Barrera...would be overrating him.

[Johnboy2007]

Think its a question thats very oppinion based. I dont know myself really , but i do think the term All time great is thrown out there alot without really thinking what it means.

[HitmanHatton]

I might get shot down for this but I think Ali is over-rated, the reason being is because if he had a personality say like the Klitschkos and didnt have a big mouth, I dont think he would be rated as highly.

[Words]

Rocky Marciano.

Should've been beaten by Ezzard Charles. Retired before Floyd Patterson and Sonny Liston came onto the scene, two fighters I'm pretty sure would've beaten him.

[telboy66]

:yepAs the years clock up that does click in doesn't it, I'm afraid I'm turning into a real grumpy old bastard...

New Years Resolution, let shit fly by me a bit more

I've tried it mate it's fucking hard just to let it go

[telboy66]

Rocky Marciano.

Should've been beaten by Ezzard Charles. Retired before Floyd Patterson and Sonny Liston came onto the scene, two fighters I'm pretty sure would've beaten him.
I agree with you about liston he would have been to big & brutal but IMO He would have got to Paterson he never could take a shot on the chin

[JohnThomas1]

Who did Chavez beat? How did he become an ATG?
Who did Ricardo Lopez beat in the weakest division in boxing to be considered an ATG?


Let me get this straight. You are saying both Chavez and Lopez aren't ATG's?

[Flea Man]

One fighter who gets a lot of admiration from some fans, is Khaosai Galaxy.

Whilst a destructive puncher, he never really beat anyone of note.

His Brother on the other hand, achieved a World title and beat two quality fighters of note, Sung Kill Moon and Wilfredo Vasquez.

Except from me, he never gets a mention :lol: Even though he was clearly superior to his Brother, not only in terms of resume (his Brothers countless World title defences were usually against stiffs) but clearly, on film, in terms of ability.

[GPater11093]

One fighter who gets a lot of admiration from some fans, is Khaosai Galaxy.

Whilst a destructive puncher, he never really beat anyone of note.

His Brother on the other hand, achieved a World title and beat two quality fighters of note, Sung Kill Moon and Wilfredo Vasquez.

Except from me, he never gets a mention :lol: Even though he was clearly superior to his Brother, not only in terms of resume (his Brothers countless World title defences were usually against stiffs) but clearly, on film, in terms of ability.

:blood

I knew it Khaoker Galaxy

excellant fighter

[xoborp]

Mike Tyson beat all comers ( many bums ) on his way to the title but when he came up against some opposition that did not shit themselves or get draggged in by intimidation he was beatable...:yep

Many class Tyson as an ATG, I class him as a World Champion from his era...that's it...:yep
Utter bollocks,

Please remember that Tyson "Was" the youngest fighter to win the heavyweight title, and for someone so young to go on and defend it, as well as "Unify it" is by no means an easy thing to achieve in such a short space of time.

By saying that when Tyson faced unfazed opposition he was beatable is a crazy statement to make, when unifying a division, both fighters unifying are beatable because they are both facing world champions, and in fairness to Iron Mike, he did beat them and unify his division, and he did actually "unify" it, other fighters since Mike lost his undisputed title did not, they won one fight and were then classed as Undisputed, by Default imo.

[thejokerswild]

:huh The man fought in 51 fights against top ten contenders at a time when top ten actually meant top ten...no ABC titles then. He also took on 14 current Hall of Famers, I fail to see how he can actually be viewed as overrated with a record like that.
I'm not game enough to touch SRR status in my early years but I'm smart enough to know top ten didn't always mean top 10. Those days were shady as hell as we all know.

It's hard/impossible to factor that into p4p status but SRR was a star and not an inch of doubt getting looked after. :think

Kostya - The dust is settling from his reign and i agree, Tszyu was overrated. Not grossly though.

[scrap]

Obviously a very good Fighter SRR, but the Greatest dont think so. His resume is not who He Boxed but when He Boxed them. Some of them He Beat is open to question. Underated start talking Ezzard Charles. :good

[kosaros]

Utter bollocks,

Please remember that Tyson "Was" the youngest fighter to win the heavyweight title, and for someone so young to go on and defend it, as well as "Unify it" is by no means an easy thing to achieve in such a short space of time.

By saying that when Tyson faced unfazed opposition he was beatable is a crazy statement to make, when unifying a division, both fighters unifying are beatable because they are both facing world champions, and in fairness to Iron Mike, he did beat them and unify his division, and he did actually "unify" it, other fighters since Mike lost his undisputed title did not, they won one fight and were then classed as Undisputed, by Default imo.

But Tyson still isn't an all-time great though IMO.

[GPater11093]

Obviously a very good Fighter SRR, but the Greatest dont think so. His resume is not who He Boxed but when He Boxed them. Some of them He Beat is open to question. Underated start talking Ezzard Charles. :good

great shout on Charles but i disagree on Ray Robinson

he has alot of very impressive wins, who do you think was past it when he fought them?

[scrap]

Most of them , A pal of mine goes every year to the Hall of Fame since it started. He is a big SRR fan, told me a tale. He was Heartbroken from what a man had told Him and says it was confirmed by a few people whom He respected. I asked Him if He thought it was true, He said yes. It was all about being legit.

[GPater11093]

Most of them , A pal of mine goes every year to the Hall of Fame since it started. He is a big SRR fan, told me a tale. He was Heartbroken from what a man had told Him and says it was confirmed by a few people whom He respected. I asked Him if He thought it was true, He said yes. It was all about being legit.

is that what the PM you sent me was about, didnt understand it because i hadnt seen this thread.

so you saying dives, fixes etc...

[Flea Man]

Most of them , A pal of mine goes every year to the Hall of Fame since it started. He is a big SRR fan, told me a tale. He was Heartbroken from what a man had told Him and says it was confirmed by a few people whom He respected. I asked Him if He thought it was true, He said yes. It was all about being legit.

No chance. Utter bollocks.

If you're claiming that Robinsons best wins weren't legit that is.

[scrap]

Okay

[Flea Man]

Okay

I assume by this the only evidence you have is 'my friend goes to the hall of fame all the time'?

If so, ridiculous.

[scrap]

Not really not very good at putting long posts out for no reason.

[KCD]

Aaron Pryor.

Only ever fought two great fighters, Arguello and Cervantes.

Cervantes was 35 at the time and old, Arguello whilst an ATG himself was fighting above his natural weight.

After these two fighters his resume is pretty weak.

[GPater11093]

Not really not very good at putting long posts out for no reason.

Wellcould you give it a shot.

What did your freind say about this as i am genuinly interested, maybe you could just summarise it up quickly

[Axl_Nose]

Who was it? Not trying to discredit any fighters here but some fighters seem to gain the all time great accolade under very strange circumstances! You can be a good, very capable fighter without joining the best of all time....

The obvious choice is Joe C, but we've debated him to death.... I've got two more..... First Kostya Tszyu.....What? When and how did he become an all time great? He was really good wasn't he ut he beat hardly anyone of note in their prime!!! Very powerful but who is he greater than?

Carlos Monzon.... I've heard a few call him the best ever but having watched him I can't see what made him so outstanding. The middleweight division seemed beriffed of talent and he scored wins over Benny Briscoe and a decrepid Emile Griffith... But no -one else... any thoughts?

Questioning Monzon, who is withoubt a doubt the greatest middleweight of all time is quite simply madness, the Benny Briscoe Monzon fought was a fantastic fighter, Rodrigo Valdez was also a brilliant fighter rated number 26 on Ring Magazine's greatest punchers of all time, Nino Benvenuti was also a very solid fighter .. I'd also question your statement about 'Having watched him i cant see what made him outstanding', it was sheer simplicity of movement which made him outstanding, the basics were done brilliantly, always working behind the jab, great chin, great stamina, compact, technically superb .... Some fighters dont have the 'razzle dazzle' that you may be looking out for .. Beating Monzon for any middleweight in history stylistically would have been a job of monumental proportions, whether that be Hagler, Ketchel, Hopkins, Greb or any of the 160's ....

Kostya Tzsyu was also a great fighter but not in Monzon's league, he was the first Undisputed Light Welterweight champion in 30 years, he's definately a big-gun in the 140 division .....

Calzaghe isnt an all time great, and for a semi controversial opinion, i'd question the much hyped Felix Trinidad, out-boxed by De La Hoya before Oscar ran, demolished by Hopkins, Winky and Roy Jones very easily (all be it he was up in weight) .. He was ultra exciting, but there has to be questions about his elevated standing with some boxing fans, he made his name beating guys like an Old Pernell, Oba Carr, Blocker, Reid and Camacho but does that resume propel you into ATG status ? Does a win over another vastly over-rated fighter Fernando Vargas propel you to a position in the pantheon of greatness ??

Trinidad was dynamite entertainment, always knocked down and getting back up to KO somebody, but when people compare him to Hearns, i have to laugh and scratch my head ..

It depends on what people define as 'All time great' .... Monzon is there for sure and on the very highest platform, that is unquestionable ..

[THE KNUCKLE]

Mike Tyson beat all comers ( many bums ) on his way to the title but when he came up against some opposition that did not shit themselves or get draggged in by intimidation he was beatable...:yep

Many class Tyson as an ATG, I class him as a World Champion from his era...that's it...:yep
WHAT R U ON,THE GUY SMASHED EVERYBODY ON THE WAY UP,FIGHTING TWICE A MONTH SOMETIMES,THIS GUY CREATED PAY PER VIEW,AND U CALL HIM A WORLD CHAMP AT BEST,BE REAL M8,THE MAN HAD PERSONAL PROBLEMS AND F***ED IT BY GETTING BANGED UP IN JAIL...1 OF THE BEST EVER IF NOT THE BEST:fire:fire

[Mookhound]

EASY:

L A R R Y H O L M E S

Never has a boxer gone from so underrated to so crazily, madly, stupidly overrated. So many now have him as a top five all time heavyweight. Absolute nonsense. Lewis, Tyson (his victory over Holmes gets too easily dismissed anyway), Bowe, V Klitschko would have all beaten him since, prime for prime.

[kosaros]

WHAT R U ON,THE GUY SMASHED EVERYBODY ON THE WAY UP,FIGHTING TWICE A MONTH SOMETIMES,THIS GUY CREATED PAY PER VIEW,AND U CALL HIM A WORLD CHAMP AT BEST,BE REAL M8,THE MAN HAD PERSONAL PROBLEMS AND F***ED IT BY GETTING BANGED UP IN JAIL...1 OF THE BEST EVER IF NOT THE BEST:fire:fire

No Floyd Mayweather is the best according to you :nut

[THE KNUCKLE]

No Floyd Mayweather is the best according to you :nut
TYSON WAS THE REASON I GOT INTERESTED IN BOXING SMART ARSE:tong

[kosaros]

TYSON WAS THE REASON I GOT INTERESTED IN BOXING SMART ARSE:tong

Same for me, but I still don't class him as an ATG. :good

[THE KNUCKLE]

Same for me, but I still don't class him as an ATG. :good
ENTITLED TO YOUR OPINION M8,THATS WHY WERE ALL ON HERE:thumbsupANYWAY JST CHANGED MY MIND TO MATT HATTON NOW:|:|ONLY JOKING:good