Baby Jake Matlala whoopin Michael Carbajal's ass

[Sweet Pea]

I love watching this guy:

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[Addie]

...Whippin' a past prime Carbajal, but still a good performance.

[anarci]

...Whippin' a past prime Carbajal, but still a good performance. Agreed :good Carbajal was pretty shot by then, he did get a big win over Arce after this though, however he was losing bad before he landed a hail mary shot, like most aging fighters your power is the last thing to go.


One guy that kod Baby Jake got kod by, that no one talks about on here is Alberto Jiminez this guy was very good he used to fight at the forum alot,and lost a split and controversial decision to the great Mark Johnson. Very exciting fighther you guys that are into the smaller weights should check this guy out other fighters he beat Arthur Johnson,Robbie Regan,Baby Jake,Makito Martinez,Jose lopez, also lost a split decision to Champ Munagcahai Kittikasem in Thailand:huh What does that tell you?

[ricardinho]

Agreed :good Carbajal was pretty shot by then, he did get a big win over Arce after this though, however he was losing bad before he landed a hail mary shot, like most aging fighters your power is the last thing to go.


One guy that kod Baby Jake got kod by, that no one talks about on here is Alberto Jiminez this guy was very good he used to fight at the forum alot,and lost a split and controversial decision to the great Mark Johnson. Very exciting fighther you guys that are into the smaller weights should check this guy out other fighters he beat Arthur Johnson,Robbie Regan,Baby Jake,Makito Martinez,Jose lopez, also lost a split decision to Champ Munagcahai Kittikasem in Thailand:huh What does that tell you?

Can't forget Raton Jimenez...you bring up old memories of Forum Boxing.
I remember all the fighters with 7 Mares advertisements on their backs .....

[Klause]

Very nice of Carbajal to crouch down to Jakes height.:yep

It may have been a tad past Carbajals prime, still Jakes career was far superior to Carbajal's accomplishments. Both of them gave us some memorable fights, good fighters they were.

[anarci]

Can't forget Raton Jimenez...you bring up old memories of Forum Boxing.
I remember all the fighters with 7 Mares advertisements on their backs ..... That kid was very good wasnt he Ricardo! He had good power,very fast ,great chin. Did you see his fight with Mark Johnson? If so who do you think won?

[Mantequilla]

Baby Jake is a legend.

Jimenez was a good solid fighter too, i seem to remember he had Johnson rocked near the end of their fight, though it's been ages since i watched it.He might be the best fighter Johnson beat actually.

[anarci]

Very nice of Carbajal to crouch down to Jakes height.:yep

It may have been a tad past Carbajals prime, still Jakes career was far superior to Carbajal's accomplishments. Both of them gave us some memorable fights, good fighters they were.
You cant be serious about Baby jakes career being Superior to
Carbajals:huh Im assuming that it was a typo error.

[Addie]

Carbajal was a flawed champion, but his reign was really good. Faced more world champions than any other Light Flyweight in history, beating most of them.

[anarci]

Baby Jake is a legend.

Jimenez was a good solid fighter too, i seem to remember he had Johnson rocked near the end of their fight, though it's been ages since i watched it.He might be the best fighter Johnson beat actually. One of my favorite fights at the lighter weights 2 highly skilled little guys that were also big punchers. That fight was fought at a fast pace for 12 rounds.

[anarci]

Carbajal was a flawed champion, but his reign was really good. Faced more world champions than any other Light Flyweight in history, beating most of them.
Addie find some footage of Jiminez i think you will find a new guy to rave about.

[Sweet Pea]

Jimenez was indeed a very good fighter Anarci. Unfortunately I haven't seen his fight with Johnson. I haven't research it in enough depth to get many decisive opinions on whether or not it was a robbery, but I've heard it was the most difficult fight of Johnson's prime, which doesn't surprise me given the quality of fighter he was facing. Jimenez was damn near as quick as Johnson with his hands and even quicker on his feet. If there was one notable flaw to Johnson's game it was probably his flat feet, at least in comparison to his upper body work. It's a reason I feel he'd have lost to the likes of Harada and Chang had he ever matched up with them, and would've had real difficulties with the elite swarmers/pressure fighters at the weight.

I can see why he'd have had such a difficult time with Jimenez given his quick feet and high offensive workrate. This thread has really sparked my interest in viewing that fight.

[Flea Man]

Pascual Perez would stop Baby Jake :deal battle of the midgets :lol:

[Sweet Pea]

Pascual Perez would stop Baby Jake :deal battle of the midgets :lol:That would be a sight. It's comical enough watching Jake against average sized Flyweights (Dave McCauley looked like a Bantamweight in with a Straw-weight in their matchup), especially in comparison to the referee. Check out how huge Richard Steele looks in comparison in the above fight.

On the topic of Perez, there's a few clips of him up on Youtube now if anyone wants to watch, against Shirai, Yaoita, and Yonekura.

[Flea Man]

That would be a sight. It's comical enough watching Jake against average sized Flyweights (Dave McCauley looked like a Bantamweight in with a Straw-weight in their matchup), especially in comparison to the referee. Check out how huge Richard Steele looks in comparison in the above fight.

On the topic of Perez, there's a few clips of him up on Youtube now if anyone wants to watch, against Shirai, Yaoita, and Yonekura.

I'll check it out, may be something on there I don't have, cheers Pea:good

[anarci]

Jimenez was indeed a very good fighter Anarci. Unfortunately I haven't seen his fight with Johnson. I haven't research it in enough depth to get many decisive opinions on whether or not it was a robbery, but I've heard it was the most difficult fight of Johnson's prime, which doesn't surprise me given the quality of fighter he was facing. Jimenez was damn near as quick as Johnson with his hands and even quicker on his feet. If there was one notable flaw to Johnson's game it was probably his flat feet, at least in comparison to his upper body work. It's a reason I feel he'd have lost to the likes of Harada and Chang had he ever matched up with them, and would've had real difficulties with the elite swarmers/pressure fighters at the weight.

I can see why he'd have had such a difficult time with Jimenez given his quick feet and high offensive workrate. This thread has really sparked my interest in viewing that fight. It wasnt a robbery it was a very close fight but i thought jiminez edged it by a 1 point. That being said i dont think Chang would have beat Johnson in fact i cant think of any modern day flys beating Johnson at his best. Jimenez had the style to give Johnson fits but i cant think of any one else. Id have to see more footage of Harada,although knowing his history it wouldnt surprise me that he would be capable of doing so. Ive seen Mark fight on his toes before, he seemed to be more flat footed when he moved up in weight. Chang couldnt punch as hard as Jimenez but he was definitly a super busy infighter.

[Mantequilla]

Chang was a much better fighter than Jimenez imo.At least if you are comparing prime for prime.A young Chang vs Jimenez would be a decent fight i thnk.

That was a good early fight for Johnson, but you could also argue( i'm not sure i would btw)it was an indicator he would not have looked so good fighting good solid fighters instead of the limited guys he usually fought, and i include the overrated Arthur Johnson in there.

[anarci]

Chang was a much better fighter than Jimenez imo.At least if you are comparing prime for prime.A young Chang vs Jimenez would be a decent fight i thnk.

That was a good early fight for Johnson, but you could also argue( i'm not sure i would btw)it was an indicator he would not have looked so good fighting good solid fighters instead of the limited guys he usually fought, and i include the overrated Arthur Johnson in there. Dont forget he also beat Fernando Montiel and he was already at the end. He also fought a Rafeal Marquez to a split decision loss and had 2 points deducted for hitting low, meaning he would have gotten the win over a much bigger Marquez. Also i dont know if you are aware of many of the top Mexican flys that he fought at the forum who were world class

Cecilio Espino ko 1 a guy who regularly fought at bantam but got kod by a fly weight Johnson.

Jorge Lacierva
Alejandro Montiel
Enrique Orozco
all top contenders and good fighters also guys like

Francisco Tejedor ko 1 who gave A prime Danny Romero all he could handle in a title fight

Ratanopol Vorapin former champ with good wins
Luis Bolano who was heavily hyped

Arthur Johnson ko 1 was not overated he fought Tapia on even terms


Also Jung koo Chang was far more accomplished than Jiminez but to think a fight with Jiminez would have been a gimme is false. Jiminez also hit harder than Chang.

[Mantequilla]

Yeah, the fights at the end of his career against MArquez and Montiel are good indicators that he would have stepped up well had he got bigger fights in his prime.

I don't like judging a lot of the contenders on the hype or expectation at the time though especially as it can be tough to see some of the more obscure ones fight a lot, unless you are local.It's worth mentioning of course, but i tend to just rate whoever impresses me when i see them and discard everything else.

Romero is a good example of that.Never saw much in him to be honest, just thought he was a decent serviceable fighter, not the potential top man i was being told he was.

Johnson certainly did have some nice blowouts of fighters who gave other guys tough fights as you said, and you can ad Raul Juarez to that, as i thought he may have done enough to beat an out of form Arbachakov.

However in this case i see it as more flaws being shown from the tapia's, Arbachakov's etc rather than Juarez, tejedor etc being particularly good fighters.Always good to have another perspective though.

[GPater11093]

That would be a sight. It's comical enough watching Jake against average sized Flyweights (Dave McCauley looked like a Bantamweight in with a Straw-weight in their matchup), especially in comparison to the referee. Check out how huge Richard Steele looks in comparison in the above fight.

On the topic of Perez, there's a few clips of him up on Youtube now if anyone wants to watch, against Shirai, Yaoita, and Yonekura.

My trainer's mate trained with Pat Clinton. When Baby Jake fought Pat Clinton my trainers mate was boxing so my trainer was there, he said when Baby Jake came into the arena he was wearing a normal sized trench coat and they normally go down to your knees with Baby Jake it was scraping the floor. The guy was about 4ft 10. Absoloute midget. Also the only ever person to take a World Title of two different Scottish champs, when he beat Paul Weir.

[Boro chris]

Agreed :good Carbajal was pretty shot by then, he did get a big win over Arce after this though, however he was losing bad before he landed a hail mary shot, like most aging fighters your power is the last thing to go.


One guy that kod Baby Jake got kod by, that no one talks about on here is Alberto Jiminez this guy was very good he used to fight at the forum alot,and lost a split and controversial decision to the great Mark Johnson. Very exciting fighther you guys that are into the smaller weights should check this guy out other fighters he beat Arthur Johnson,Robbie Regan,Baby Jake,Makito Martinez,Jose lopez, also lost a split decision to Champ Munagcahai Kittikasem in Thailand:huh What does that tell you?

Good fight against Regan I seem to remember.

[anarci]

Yeah, the fights at the end of his career against MArquez and Montiel are good indicators that he would have stepped up well had he got bigger fights in his prime.

I don't like judging a lot of the contenders on the hype or expectation at the time though especially as it can be tough to see some of the more obscure ones fight a lot, unless you are local.It's worth mentioning of course, but i tend to just rate whoever impresses me when i see them and discard everything else.

Romero is a good example of that.Never saw much in him to be honest, just thought he was a decent serviceable fighter, not the potential top man i was being told he was.

Johnson certainly did have some nice blowouts of fighters who gave other guys tough fights as you said, and you can ad Raul Juarez to that, as i thought he may have done enough to beat an out of form Arbachakov.

However in this case i see it as more flaws being shown from the tapia's, Arbachakov's etc rather than Juarez, tejedor etc being particularly good fighters.Always good to have another perspective though.

Danny Romero was pretty awesome at Fly and JB, especially Fly he had big time power and was very fast. Only thing he seemed to always come at you in a straigt line. IVe seen ROmero Many times in his prime and i just cant think of any flyweights that could bang like him.
Although at Bantam and Jf he was just a decent serviceable fighter like you mentioned. I get the feeling those are the fights you seen him.
He also blew out Harold Grey in 1 round for the JB title who was suppose to be a tall slick boxer that would give him trouble. In his prime Danny was PFP regarded as one of the top puncheres in the sport. Physically strong too this kid was buffed out for being a smaller weight fighter.

[lefthook31]

Danny Romero was pretty awesome at Fly and JB, especially Fly he had big time power and was very fast. Only thing he seemed to always come at you in a straigt line. IVe seen ROmero Many times in his prime and i just cant think of any flyweights that could bang like him.
Although at Bantam and Jf he was just a decent serviceable fighter like you mentioned. I get the feeling those are the fights you seen him.
He also blew out Harold Grey in 1 round for the JB title who was suppose to be a tall slick boxer that would give him trouble. In his prime Danny was PFP regarded as one of the top puncheres in the sport. Physically strong too this kid was buffed out for being a smaller weight fighter.
I liked Romero too but Im always a sucker for a puncher. He was like you said pretty one dimensional in his approach which came out as he moved up.
As far as Matlala, I got the chance to see him fight live on the Rahman Tua undercard years back and its quite spectacle to see this little guy. I had some friends with me who werent boxing fans and they couldnt believe how good he was for being so small.

[anarci]

Yey you couldnt help but like a guy like Matalala, he was like a cute little kid:lol: About the size of your average 9 or 10 year old, and he could scrap so fast in out side to side threw so many punches in bunches. I remember my Uncle watching that fight with me and he was so amazed that Carbajal was getting whupped by such a tiny dude.

[Flea Man]

What do you think of Pascual Perez, Anarci? Where would he be on your top 100?

[anarci]

What do you think of Pascual Perez, Anarci? Where would he be on your top 100? Maybe the greatest 112 ever somewhere around 80 but thats just a guess could be a little higher or a little lower. I havent done a list that big yet.

Definitly a top 4 flyweight

[sweet_scientist]

Baby Jake is a legend.

Jimenez was a good solid fighter too, i seem to remember he had Johnson rocked near the end of their fight, though it's been ages since i watched it.He might be the best fighter Johnson beat actually.

I'll score and give my thoughts on this one later on today.

[Flea Man]

Maybe the greatest 112 ever somewhere around 60 but thats just a guess could be a little higher or a little lower. I havent done a list that big yet.

IF not the greatest definitly top 3.

Would you say that Flyweight is historically deeper than Strawweight and light-fly? And how would you rate Perez in terms of ability?

[Sweet Pea]

Would you say that Flyweight is historically deeper than Strawweight and light-fly? Seriously?

[anarci]

Would you say that Flyweight is historically deeper than Strawweight and light-fly? And how would you rate Perez in terms of ability? Yes it is and much a much longer history i think you know that. I know what your agenda is here buddy:yep And yes i do think Ricardo Lopez was a better fighter than Pascual Perez. I havent seen much footage except for his fight with Yonekura and he reminds me of Chiquita a little bit. Ability wise he looks good but not as amazing as Lopez or some other modern Greats like Mark Johnson. But his longevity and mark as one of Boxing best little guys have to be taken into consideration.

[Sweet Pea]

Perez fought nothing like Chiquita. Can't see where you came to make that comparison.

[anarci]

Perez fought nothing like Chiquita. Can't see where you came to make that comparison. I just watched him like a few hours ago and hes similar do a younger Chiquita before he turned more boxer. Dont tell me about Chiquita ive been watching him before the rest of the boxing world took notice.

[sweet_scientist]

Baby Jake is a legend.

Jimenez was a good solid fighter too, i seem to remember he had Johnson rocked near the end of their fight, though it's been ages since i watched it.He might be the best fighter Johnson beat actually.

He rocked him a few times throughout, and really whipped him good in the 9th round when he came out and landed some flush shots from the start of the round and controlled the round with his aggressive, bustling work.


Jimenez was indeed a very good fighter Anarci. Unfortunately I haven't seen his fight with Johnson. I haven't research it in enough depth to get many decisive opinions on whether or not it was a robbery, but I've heard it was the most difficult fight of Johnson's prime, which doesn't surprise me given the quality of fighter he was facing. Jimenez was damn near as quick as Johnson with his hands and even quicker on his feet. If there was one notable flaw to Johnson's game it was probably his flat feet, at least in comparison to his upper body work. It's a reason I feel he'd have lost to the likes of Harada and Chang had he ever matched up with them, and would've had real difficulties with the elite swarmers/pressure fighters at the weight.

I can see why he'd have had such a difficult time with Jimenez given his quick feet and high offensive workrate. This thread has really sparked my interest in viewing that fight.

I think Johnson had quicker hands and feet than Jimenez really. Johnson could stand flat footed for sure, and when he did, Jimenez was making him pay, but in their fight Johnson employed some pretty good movement and was turning Jimenez around after getting his combos off often.

[anarci]

He rocked him a few times throughout, and really whipped him good in the 9th round when he came out and landed some flush shots from the start of the round and controlled the round with his aggressive, bustling work.




I think Johnson had quicker hands and feet than Jimenez really. Johnson could stand flat footed for sure, and when he did, Jimenez was making him pay, but in their fight Johnson employed some pretty good movement and was turning Jimenez around after getting his combos off often.:good So how did you score the fight Sweet Scientist? I remember having Jiminez ahead by 1 point,but i have not seen it since they fought.

I agree with you that Johnson had good movement i also disagreed with Sweet pea on that one,and stated that he had better movement at 112 and was more flat footed when he moved up to 115 and 118.

[sweet_scientist]

:good So how did you score the fight Sweet Scientist? I remember having Jiminez ahead by 1 point,but i have not seen it since they fought.

I agree with you that Johnson had good movement i also disagreed with Sweet pea on that one,and stated that he had better movement at 112 and was more flat footed when he moved up to 115 and 118.

Just put my scorecard up on the scorecard thread mate (at the top of the classic forum page).

I had Johnson taking it, but I can see how you thought Jimenez took it, for his punches seemed to be hurting Johnson more than vice versa and he was ending the rounds strong whereas Johnson was fading. But I gave it to Johnson for landing more clean shots basically.

Scoring this fight comes down to your scoring philosophy really. In some ways it mirrors the Morales-Barrera fights in that like Morales, Johnson was landing more shots throughout the rounds, and like Barrera Jimenez was landing less but rocking his opponent when he did hit him and often ended rounds the stronger after getting behind early in the round.

I would more often than not give Morales rounds in those scenarios and likewise here I was edging rounds to Too Sharp, but I can see the argument for the other guy, and it's a reasonable argument. :good

[Flea Man]

Ive watched Pascual Perez extensively so dint tell me about him. He doesn't resemble Chiquita IMO. Anyway, you're not allowed to comment if you only watched it on YouTube.

[Flea Man]

Anyway, you obviously saw what I was trying to do. Obviously you are one if the more biased posters on here.

I guess Lopez beats Perez as well?

[anarci]

Anyway, you obviously saw what I was trying to do. Obviously you are one if the more biased posters on here.

I guess Lopez beats Perez as well? HEEEEEEEEEEELLL YEAH:yep LOPEZ BEATS HIM!!!

IM NOT BIAS I JUST DONT GO ALONG WITH ALL OF YOU I HAVE A MIND OF MY OWN.

[Flea Man]

HEEEEEEEEEEELLL YEAH:yep LOPEZ BEATS HIM!!!

IM NOT BIAS I JUST DONT GO ALONG WITH ALL OF YOU I HAVE A MIND OF MY OWN.

Stylistically though pal? How would it go?

People disagree on here all the time.

EDIT: Whats the point in being rude :good

[anarci]

Stylistically though pal? How would it go?

People disagree on here all the time. Your 'mind of your own' seems to begin and end with sucking Ricardo Lopez's cock :deal:nono:nono Now Now MClovin you are crossing the line their, where i come from you get :vonnecunt or :gun:gun for talking shit like that:twisted:

[Flea Man]

:nono:nono Now Now MClovin you are crossing the line their, where i come from you get :vonnecunt or :gun:gun for talking shit like that:twisted:

And where I'm from:lol:

I edited before you quoted. Also, I responded back on the other thread:good

[GPater11093]

Perez IMO beats Lopez his movement, dynamicisy and strength is far too much for the littler Lopez.

[Flea Man]

Perez, whilst short but powerfully built for the weight. I think Lopez wuld find him hard to time, and as accurate as he was, that in and out trot, quality upper body movement, good chin and two fisted dynamit would see Lopez out of there in a competitive fight. 10th round, something like that.

Anarci, if you haven't seen a huge amount of Perez I go quite deeply into his style here, on a thread about Perez vs Chang, if you care to take a look :good




Well, since I saw this thread pop up as I was leaving work it's been playing on my mind.

Content to come up with something approaching a decent analysis, I came home, rolled two fat Skunk joints, and retired to my quarters to re-analyse footage of both men.

Now, I will be happy with either man winning, but I myself see it like this.

Perez's in-out movement literally resembles a horse trotting, and he knew how to keep a fight at 'his' range, dictating when/where he attacked using deft angles and with immense power in both hands. From the footage I've seen he seems to either propel himself into shots with alarming force, throwing Jofre-esque wide hooks to devastating effect, or sits down on his punches and throws hooks and uppercuts from very strange angles. Once he gets throwing he doesn't stop.

Chang used subtle shifts in movement (head and feet) and was an expert and cutting in on an opponent and sending a barrage of punches their way. He had serious power, but as Sweet Pea himself said (and I'm paraphrasing here) 'if he one punch power his opponents would be waking up in the hospital'. He was an accumulative hitter who could bang at times.

Now, for me there are several things NOT in Chang's favour in this fight. For one, he seems to me to be the kind of fighter that gets his offence off better against taller fighters (Zapata, Ohashi) though of course I am basing that on him not having faced someone as small as Perez. And from most of the footage I have seen being Chang vs opponents around the same height or taller, they find it hard to evade his attacks with his swarming all over them.

Here, I think Perez finds it easier to evade Chang's offence than Chang does his. There is less of a target for Chang here (though for his diminutive stature Perez was broad backed, probably lends him his power) and Perez, who seemed to have awesome head/upper body movement as well as a good chin, could get under Chang's hooks and throw his own shots.

I fear the first round is a Hagler-Hearns-esque explosion, with both men walking straight into each other. Chang never wastes as oppurtunity to fire off at an opponents, and Perez looked for opportunities to land his own bombs.

A very interesting fact is that both men dropped in and out of orthodox and southpaw in order to make their attacks more unpredictable (That is what it seems to me anyway)

For this tournament I've been going with the younger Chang conceding a few pounds. I see the older, undoubtedly more experienced but less dedicated Chang going down via stoppage. He could be dropped and hurt around this time and I think Perez, who was in his prime here would take advantage of Chang's more thoughtful approach (he seemed to put more into his shots more than outright swarming, probably due his knowing that he lacked stamina due to his lifestyle)

The younger Chang, undoubtedly came at you at a faster pace, and has disregard for his opponents style. (Pater said Chang seemed, and I'm paraphrasing again 'went through styles') However Perez would give him food for thought and would force Chang to keep the fight at mid-range. I think Chang could prosper here, peppering Perez with shots and being more calculated in his approach, using his quick head movement to evade Perezs shots.

However, I go for the more exciting version. Chang will come out strong and I think the first few rounds will be a slobberknocker. I say Chang takes these using his own strength and workrate to overwhelm Perez, who doesn't get hurt much at all.

In the middle rounds, Perez uses his cagey and awkward outside work to miss Chang's attacks, using his strength to push him away and land his jab. When they attack, they usually meet in the middle and crowd each others work.

As we go into the 10th, Chang has a revival. He gets Perez back on the ropes and causes the small man to use all of his advantesg,finding it easier than Zapata to make Chang miss due to his smaller stature.

Perez I think has been landing with more power shots around this time.

Now, I may even change my prediction and this is why.

I haven't seen the Kingpetch fights, and I'm unsure whether the legitimacy of Perez's opponents seems dubious at certain stages due to them genuinely being sub-standard or due to (and this is what I'm thinking is more likely) incomplete Boxrec records.

So, I have little to no idea what Perez's weaknesses were. And as all the footage I've seen of him is 'highlights' I don't know whether he was erratic and needed to pull things back with K.O's or whatnot (from what I've read he seems to have been good in a lotof areas though, and his long undefeated streak lends air to the idea he was as damn good a Flyweight as you can get) One thing I will say is that he seems to be good at slipping shots whilst on the ropes and getting out of range, something which may be key as Chang was an awesome finisher with his opponent against the ropes.

Anyway, here goes. This is going to be borderline blasphemous to some people, but this tournament is all aout controversy Anyone here who knows me will know I've been a massive admier of Chang since I was turned onto him, so I make the following prediction after some deliberation with myself

I say, around the 12th round, Chang, throwing caution to the wind and tiring, is pushed back to the very strong Perez, who unleashes a left-right combo that lays him flat out. This may seem ridiculous considering Chang always showed good punch resistance and powers of recovery right through his career but Perez is a super-puncher amongst Fly's, and I think Chang's approach sees him in the path of something big.

As a fan of Chang it pains me to say it; Perez K.O 12.

Of course, I'll be more than happy to see Jung-Koo progress

[GPater11093]

Flea, how do you see Perez vs Lopez going?

[Flea Man]

Top bit of the post mate :good
here you are;

Perez, whilst short but powerfully built for the weight. I think Lopez would find him hard to time, and as accurate as he was, that in and out trot, quality upper body movement, good chin and two fisted dynamit would see Lopez out of there in a competitive fight. 10th round, something like that.

[GPater11093]

Top bit of the post mate :good
here you are;

Perez, whilst short but powerfully built for the weight. I think Lopez would find him hard to time, and as accurate as he was, that in and out trot, quality upper body movement, good chin and two fisted dynamit would see Lopez out of there in a competitive fight. 10th round, something like that.

Sorry missed that bit, I like it how you say but a points win for Perez.

[Flea Man]

Sorry missed that bit, I like it how you say but a points win for Perez.

Well, as Lopez was never stopped, and the one time I've seen him down (Alvarez 1) he didn't seem too flustered it may be unfair to pick him to get stopped.

But at Fly, even accoutning for moving up a prime straw Lopez a few lbs I see Perez being too strong. I think he can put Lopez down and keep him down. Would be a competitive fight though, and with Lopez's skillset and attributes he can hang with ATG Flys. Just not sure if he can beat this one.:good

[Sweet Pea]

Perez was a bit too small to really impose any of the physical advantages on Lopez you'd have seen from most Flyweights. Not to mention Lopez was very well suited to the weight himself, being a very large Minimumweight. That's not to say Perez couldn't have won, but if he did I strongly doubt it would've been by stoppage. He may have been just too small, period. He wasn't really the swarmer or all out pressure fighter some make him out to be, and to get in on Lopez that would be key.

I could see him beating Chang due to styles, but just as much I could see him losing to Lopez, even if I'd favor Chang over Lopez.

[Sweet Pea]

I just watched him like a few hours ago and hes similar do a younger Chiquita before he turned more boxer. Dont tell me about Chiquita ive been watching him before the rest of the boxing world took notice.You're entitled to your opinion about Chiquita, but you're completely off the mark regarding Perez. I don't see any similarities aside from the fact that they were both Latino Flyweights.

[Flea Man]

Perez was not a swarmer no, but he had fast upper body movement that he could use to slip under Lopez's jab and let his shots off IMO

[Sweet Pea]

Perez was not a swarmer no, but he had fast upper body movement that he could use to slip under Lopez's jab and let his shots off IMOTrue, he had quick feet and used very good angle movements when in close range as well. However, against a fighter like Lopez, who'd be looking to use his reach and footwork to keep the fight at optimal range, I tend to think he'd come up short more often than not with his hooks. I could see him hurting Lopez at some point in the fight, and giving him a hell of a go with all the tools he possesses. As much as I hate to do it though, I'd have to favor Lopez. It's just the way I see the fight playing out in my head if I'm being honest. A 6 inch height and reach advantage for a Flyweight is very substantial, especially for someone like Lopez who had such quality footwork and controlled the range so well. When you throw in his own punching power, accuracy, and textbook combinations, it's hard to see Perez getting the better of the two. For me anyway.

[Flea Man]

True, he had quick feet and used very good angle movements when in close range as well. However, against a fighter like Lopez, who'd be looking to use his reach and footwork to keep the fight at optimal range, I tend to think he'd come up short more often than not with his hooks. I could see him hurting Lopez at some point in the fight, and giving him a hell of a go with all the tools he possesses. As much as I hate to do it though, I'd have to favor Lopez. It's just the way I see the fight playing out in my head if I'm being honest. A 6 inch height and reach advantage for a Flyweight is very substantial, especially for someone like Lopez who had such quality footwork and controlled the range so well. When you throw in his own punching power, accuracy, and textbook combinations, it's hard to see Perez getting the better of the two. For me anyway.

Good post. You're a guy who can see both sides, we'll leave it there:good

[anarci]

Perez, whilst short but powerfully built for the weight. I think Lopez wuld find him hard to time, and as accurate as he was, that in and out trot, quality upper body movement, good chin and two fisted dynamit would see Lopez out of there in a competitive fight. 10th round, something like that.

Anarci, if you haven't seen a huge amount of Perez I go quite deeply into his style here, on a thread about Perez vs Chang, if you care to take a look :good


Content to come up with something approaching a decent analysis, I CAME HOME TO SMOKE TO SKUNK JOINTS, and retired to my quarters to re-analyse footage of both
Hey flea that must be the reason you think that Perez would stop Lopez:rasta:lol: If you put that bomb as weed down you would be able to analyze this fight clearly and see that Lopez would beat Perez:yep Say :nonoto drugs it affects your ability to Judge fighters:lol:


Na but seriously the footage ive seen of Perez i have no doubt that Lopez would find him, he didnt look to elusive to me, at least not for such an accurate sharp shooter like Lopez. I do think his power was impressive though.

Where could i catch more footage of him? Since it sounds like u are so familiar with him.Id like to check him out more To be more accurate in my analogy of him. Ive heard and read about him before and know hes considered arguably the greatest fly by many along with Wilde and Canto but I only found one of his fights on you tube.

[Flea Man]

Hey flea that must be the reason you think that Perez would stop Lopez:rasta:lol: If you put that bomb as weed down you would be able to analyze this fight clearly and see that Lopez would beat Perez:yep Say :nonoto drugs it affects your ability to Judge fighters:lol:


Na but seriously the footage ive seen of Perez i have no doubt that Perez would find him, he didnt look to elusive to me, at least not for such an accurate puncher like Lopez. I do think his power was impressive thought.

Where could i catch more footage of him? To be more accurate in my analogy of him. Ive heard and read about him long ago and know hes considered arguably the greatest fly by many along with Wilde and Canto but I only found one of his fights on you tube.

Best guy to ask is a poster called Raging Bull, the best man in the World for footage, reasonable as well:good

And no, weed helps me to analyse; just doesn't help me to train:lol:

And no, Perez isn't entirely elusive, but he was tough and would cause Lopez to back up more than anyone. Put it this way, he was twice the fighter that Alvarez was IMO.

[Sweet Pea]

Perez actually looked quite elusive at times to me. He rolled very well after his hooks especially.

As for weed, it helped my analytical abilities about 3 fold when I watched fights high. I've recently stopped for other reasons, though.

[anarci]

You're entitled to your opinion about Chiquita, but you're completely off the mark regarding Perez. I don't see any similarities aside from the fact that they were both Latino Flyweights. Well like i told Flea, if you guys no a link let me check it out, cause from what i saw he resembles Chiquita in Ht,In and out style and Power. I didnt say exactly i just said resemblence in style, and ive always thought that Lopez would pick a style like that apart.

[Flea Man]

Perez actually looked quite elusive at times to me. He rolled very well after his hooks especially.

As for weed, it helped my analytical abilities about 3 fold when I watched fights high. I've recently stopped for other reasons, though.


BOLD: No doubt. But as Anarci hasn't seen much of him, don't want to make him out to be a Canto-esque figure. Perez was a boxer-puncher, albeit one with odd dimensions and that weird horse trot he used to skip in and out of range.

LINED: No doubt. I NEED to stop, sending me round the bend and the only people I talk to out of work is on here. Which isn't actually talking, and very unsociable (in the real World)

[anarci]

Good post. You're a guy who can see both sides, we'll leave it there:good I know that was a dig to me Flea,but I wouldnt have a problem saying that Perez would beat Lopez if i thought he could. Ive always thought that Lopez should stay away from Mark Johnson.
Even though i think Lopez would have beat Chang i think that sylistically it would be a tough fight for Lopez tougher for him than Perez.

[Flea Man]

Well like i told Flea, if you guys no a link let me check it out, cause from what i saw he resembles Chiquita in Ht,In and out style and Power. I didnt say exactly i just said resemblence in style, and ive always thought that Lopez would pick a style like that apart.

I've replied Anarci,

[Only registered and activated users can see links] I believe, may have to part with some currency, but as I say, he's very reasonable and has pretty much anything that has been filmed:good

I think thats his email address.

[anarci]

True, he had quick feet and used very good angle movements when in close range as well. However, against a fighter like Lopez, who'd be looking to use his reach and footwork to keep the fight at optimal range, I tend to think he'd come up short more often than not with his hooks. I could see him hurting Lopez at some point in the fight, and giving him a hell of a go with all the tools he possesses. As much as I hate to do it though, I'd have to favor Lopez. It's just the way I see the fight playing out in my head if I'm being honest. A 6 inch height and reach advantage for a Flyweight is very substantial, especially for someone like Lopez who had such quality footwork and controlled the range so well. When you throw in his own punching power, accuracy, and textbook combinations, it's hard to see Perez getting the better of the two. For me anyway.:good:yep

[Flea Man]

I know that was a dig to me Flea,but I wouldnt have a problem saying that Perez would beat Lopez if i thought he could. Ive always thought that Lopez should stay away from Mark Johnson.
Even though i think Lopez would have beat Chang i think that sylistically it would be a tough fight for Lopez tougher for him than Perez.

it was not a dig at you Anarci, I said I'd leave it out the sly comments and I will. Me and Pea will debate ourselves to a standstill, it's one of those kind of stylistic matchups:good

Also, I've verified that email address, I'd got it a bit wrong :good

[GPater11093]

Perez was a bit too small to really impose any of the physical advantages on Lopez you'd have seen from most Flyweights. Not to mention Lopez was very well suited to the weight himself, being a very large Minimumweight. That's not to say Perez couldn't have won, but if he did I strongly doubt it would've been by stoppage. He may have been just too small, period. He wasn't really the swarmer or all out pressure fighter some make him out to be, and to get in on Lopez that would be key.

I could see him beating Chang due to styles, but just as much I could see him losing to Lopez, even if I'd favor Chang over Lopez.

His size (or lack of height) helped his strength as he had a lower base of gravity. He was incredibly strong for a Flyweight and incredibly quick.

As for swarming, do you not think Perez's quick movements would get him inside of Lopez? He got inside Kingpetch in the first fight when he showed glimpses of his old self.

Also Perez was a great inside fighter and could keep the fight in there with his change of angles. His body punching was excellant and surely this would slow Lopez down and let Perez get inside.

Perez actually looked quite elusive at times to me. He rolled very well after his hooks especially.

As for weed, it helped my analytical abilities about 3 fold when I watched fights high. I've recently stopped for other reasons, though.

Perez was elusive that was which surprised me first time I watched him.

Also you serious? How does it help your anaylitical skills?

[Flea Man]

Greg, smoking weed automatically makes you more engrossed with what you are doing.

it doesn't make you lose your quality control either. A misconception is that you think everything is brilliant. That's ecstacy IMO. Weed makes you see things exactly as it is, without the bullshit. Being a cynic anyway it was a perfect drug for me.

I'm speaking in the past tense because I'm trying to give up :good

I find I concentrate more on it. I enamour myself with my subject and really look into it deep.

[GPater11093]

Greg, smoking weed automatically makes you more engrossed with what you are doing.

it doesn't make you lose your quality control either. A misconception is that you think everything is brilliant. That's ecstacy IMO. Weed makes you see things exactly as it is, without the bullshit. Being a cynic anyway it was a perfect drug for me.

I'm speaking in the past tense because I'm trying to give up :good

I find I concentrate more on it. I enamour myself with my subject and really look into it deep.

They should give us weed at school :lol:

Nah, seriously it is bad stuff would never touch it myself seen what it can do.

[Sweet Pea]

His size (or lack of height) helped his strength as he had a lower base of gravity. He was incredibly strong for a Flyweight and incredibly quick.He was definitely quick, and definitely strong. I don't think he was stronger than Alvarez though, and I don't think he was especially quick by Flyweight standards. That's not to say he was at all lacking in either regard, just that I don't think he was too far out of the norm for a Flyweight aside from his height, which is more of a slight when facing taller fighters, at least ones with the speed and skills of Lopez.

As for swarming, do you not think Perez's quick movements would get him inside of Lopez? He got inside Kingpetch in the first fight when he showed glimpses of his old self.Kingpetch was quite slow for a Flyweight though. A very tidy technician and a fine out-boxer, but not in Lopez's class IMO. Not nearly as varied in his attack, as quick on his feet, or even as powerful IMO.

Also Perez was a great inside fighter and could keep the fight in there with his change of angles. His body punching was excellant and surely this would slow Lopez down and let Perez get inside.It'd be a lot more difficult to keep the fight on the inside against Lopez, that was my point. Lopez wouldn't oblige to an in-fight, and his footwork would make it a lot more difficult to force one than against someone like Kingpetch. I don't think Lopez would've had an easy time with him at all, I just think his physical atttributes compliment his technical skills enough that he would be able to dictate the range more often than not against Perez. I could be wrong. If more footage was available of Perez maybe I'd be singing a different tune. Just basing it off of what I've seen, and I've been very impressed with Perez's skills.

Also you serious? How does it help your anaylitical skills?As Flea said, it just makes it a lot easier to become engrosses with what you're watching. You can sit and watch in wonderment at the subtle skills and nuances of a fighter's game a lot easier, especially those who on first glance don't seem to have an aesthetically pleasing style. Just makes it a lot more enjoyable and clear. Watching fights was one of my favorite things to do when I got high.

It's definitely the best drug to do if you have a sound mind, which I did most of the time. Otherwise it can be a mindfuck, which is why I've recently quit.

[Flea Man]

As a smoker for nearly ten years I can safely say I wish I was a kid again. As much fun as I have had with the stuff, as long as I have lived with it........I wouldn't smoke it if I had the choice to turn back the clock.

Even though I am far more socially aware guy then I probably would've been without it. It also helped form my perception of the media. Smoking dope just helps you cut through the bullshit IMO. It's like a natural cynacism, heigthened perception and all that shit. But as I sit here typing my ass off wishing I had a joint in hand, I realise how frustrating the stuff can be.

[Flea Man]

He was definitely quick, and definitely strong. I don't think he was stronger than Alvarez though, and I don't think he was especially quick by Flyweight standards. That's not to say he was at all lacking in either regard, just that I don't think he was too far out of the norm for a Flyweight aside from his height, which is more of a slight when facing taller fighters, at least ones with the speed and skills of Lopez.

Kingpetch was quite slow for a Flyweight though. A very tidy technician and a fine out-boxer, but not in Lopez's class IMO. Not nearly as varied in his attack, as quick on his feet, or even as powerful IMO.

It'd be a lot more difficult to keep the fight on the inside against Lopez, that was my point. Lopez wouldn't oblige to an in-fight, and his footwork would make it a lot more difficult to force one than against someone like Kingpetch. I don't think Lopez would've had an easy time with him at all, I just think his physical atttributes compliment his technical skills enough that he would be able to dictate the range more often than not against Perez. I could be wrong. If more footage was available of Perez maybe I'd be singing a different tune. Just basing it off of what I've seen, and I've been very impressed with Perez's skills.

As Flea said, it just makes it a lot easier to become engrosses with what you're watching. You can sit and watch in wonderment at the subtle skills and nuances of a fighter's game a lot easier, especially those who on first glance don't seem to have an aesthetically pleasing style. Just makes it a lot more enjoyable and clear. Watching fights was one of my favorite things to do when I got high.

It's definitely the best drug to do if you have a sound mind, which I did most of the time. Otherwise it can be a mindfuck, which is why I've recently quit.

This x1000:lol::good

[GPater11093]

He was definitely quick, and definitely strong. I don't think he was stronger than Alvarez though, and I don't think he was especially quick by Flyweight standards. That's not to say he was at all lacking in either regard, just that I don't think he was too far out of the norm for a Flyweight aside from his height, which is more of a slight when facing taller fighters, at least ones with the speed and skills of Lopez.

I have never seen Alvarez so I cant comment but Perez is one of the strongest Flyweights I have seen. I thought he wasnt speedy for a Flyweight but he was above average and had a very good turn of pace. Also being small is only a disadvantage if you stay on the outside when you get on the inside, especailly against Lopez, you have alot of advantages. Also Perez's lack of height actually is a good advantage defensivly for him as he is a tiny target for Lopez and it is harder for Lopez to punch down than for Perez to punch up.


Kingpetch was quite slow for a Flyweight though. A very tidy technician and a fine out-boxer, but not in Lopez's class IMO. Not nearly as varied in his attack, as quick on his feet, or even as powerful IMO.

Agreed, although he was a better inside fighter IMO, Lopez is better overall.

It'd be a lot more difficult to keep the fight on the inside against Lopez, that was my point. Lopez wouldn't oblige to an in-fight, and his footwork would make it a lot more difficult to force one than against someone like Kingpetch. I don't think Lopez would've had an easy time with him at all, I just think his physical atttributes compliment his technical skills enough that he would be able to dictate the range more often than not against Perez. I could be wrong. If more footage was available of Perez maybe I'd be singing a different tune. Just basing it off of what I've seen, and I've been very impressed with Perez's skills.

Fair enough you can see the problems perez poses and the problems Lopez pose Perez, I just disagree in the strength of each others problems (if that amkes sense)

As Flea said, it just makes it a lot easier to become engrosses with what you're watching. You can sit and watch in wonderment at the subtle skills and nuances of a fighter's game a lot easier, especially those who on first glance don't seem to have an aesthetically pleasing style. Just makes it a lot more enjoyable and clear. Watching fights was one of my favorite things to do when I got high.

It's definitely the best drug to do if you have a sound mind, which I did most of the time. Otherwise it can be a mindfuck, which is why I've recently quit.

I do that without smoking weed. The classic forum has turned into a fucking advert for weed now.