**Ok-let's not be crazy-Pavlik beat Jermain...that's it for now** [Archive]

kg0208

09-30-2007, 08:23 PM

styles make fight and Jermain was taylored made for Pavlik, and as I mentioned even with that working for him he needed to dig deep, very deep to win the fight. so a slick BHop even with his work rate will present plenty of trouble for Pavlik....BHop is to skill and knows the science...Pavlik defensive deficiencies will be exploded by the older but still slick WW....

Yes, Taylor style was made for Pavlik. Hopkins is getting old, he is slowing down, and he beats people who are either smaller than him or have no workrate. Pavlik is neither.

Hell, Taylors style was made for Hopkins with that low left hand, looping hooks and bad defense. And he still fought him close.

You believe what you wish. Hopkins isn't the fighter he was 3-4 years ago.

kg0208

09-30-2007, 08:25 PM

You know you guys are so typical ESB van wagon ass holes..again one more time....Pavlik digged deep to beat an opponent taht was taylor made for him stylisticly regardless.....capice!!

Stop making generalizations. I have been calling Hopkins old since BEFORE he fought Tarver. This is not new. Beating an old Tarver and an overweight and old Wright is not proof of a resurrection.

acb

09-30-2007, 08:26 PM

You know you guys are so typical ESB van wagon ass holes..again one more time....Pavlik digged deep to beat an opponent taht was taylor made for him stylisticly regardless.....capice!!

LOL it really is about Miranda isnt it Orisha! :lol:

Why are you so ass hurt about this great young new champ.

Who gives a fuck if he dug deep? Taylor is an undefeated fighter, and Winky and Bernard couldnt beat him. :deal

Now you take credit from him for digging deep? Stupidest thing I ever heard.

Orishaman

09-30-2007, 08:29 PM

Yes, Taylor style was made for Pavlik. Hopkins is getting old, he is slowing down, and he beats people who are either smaller than him or have no workrate. Pavlik is neither.

Hell, Taylors style was made for Hopkins with that low left hand, looping hooks and bad defense. And he still fought him close.

You believe what you wish. Hopkins isn't the fighter he was 3-4 years ago.

I am not saying that BHop is a spring chicken ...no doubt he is getting old and his wor rate is minimal at best, but he pick his spots..and what he lack in speed and work rate he has in experince and physical conditioning...I honestly doubt that Pavlik will fill confortabble carying 15 extra pounds...BHop was ther before becoming the MW champ, and can hadle the weight...BHop is a strong customer at 160 and 175...he can move, threw a few punches that will be from agles that Pavlik has not scene...Pavlik has not gone past 8 rounds, and BHop stamina is legendary.....I like BHop on theis match ..and by the way I know you know that Pavlik will not carry his punching power to 175 that's a fact jack!!!

acb

09-30-2007, 08:32 PM

Orisha your a hater plain and simple. End of thread.

Orishaman

09-30-2007, 08:32 PM

LOL it really is about Miranda isnt it Orisha! :lol:

Why are you so ass hurt about this great young new champ.

Who gives a fuck if he dug deep? Taylor is an undefeated fighter, and Winky and Bernard couldnt beat him. :deal

Now you take credit from him for digging deep? Stupidest thing I ever heard.

You guys are wrong, read all my previous post after the fight I gave him his Kudos..but please...let';s not calling the very best after just one fight...that's my point and if you guys can see that...then...that make you huggers....Pavlik has a lot of talent and lot of good things happening for him, plus he is a legitimate good cat...and humble how in the hell you can dislike a guy like that...in fact it was refreshing watching Pavlik so humble in the post fight interview...that made me liking even more but I know he has a lot of room to improve and time will tell...

kg0208

09-30-2007, 08:34 PM

I am not saying that BHop is a spring chicken ...no doubt he is getting old and his wor rate is minimal at best, but he pick his spots..and what he lack in speed and work rate he has in experince and physical conditioning...I honestly doubt that Pavlik will fill confortabble carying 15 extra pounds...BHop was ther before becoming the MW champ, and can hadle the weight...BHop is a strong customer at 160 and 175...he can move, threw a few punches that will be from agles that Pavlik has not scene...Pavlik has not gone past 8 rounds, and BHop stamina is legendary.....I like BHop on theis match ..and by the way I know you know that Pavlik will not carry his punching power to 175 that's a fact jack!!!

Why would he not carry it up to 175? Thats not a fact, thats your opinion. There are many fighters who moved up and took their power that far up.

Bhop was there before he was at MW. Once....and he LOST. His workrate is too low now. Pavlik will walk right through his punches and simply outwork him. Taylor outworked him for godsakes.

quiet man ruiz

09-30-2007, 08:36 PM

"Stop making generalizations. I have been calling Hopkins old since BEFORE he fought Tarver. This is not new. Beating an old Tarver and an overweight and old Wright is not proof of a resurrection."

hopkins is legend but. he is old. so much slower now. you can see. cant throw many punches. gets tired. it is all clear. noboody decline to so much still elite. you see it. most dont.
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kg0208

09-30-2007, 08:36 PM

You guys are wrong, read all my previous post after the fight I gave him his Kudos..but please...let';s not calling the very best after just one fight...that's my point and if you guys can see that...then...that make you huggers....Pavlik has a lot of talent and lot of good things happening for him, plus he is a legitimate good cat...and humble how in the hell you can dislike a guy like that...in fact it was refreshing watching Pavlik so humble in the post fight interview...that made me liking even more but I know he has a lot of room to improve and time will tell...

There you go saying "you guys" again.

Never call someone a hugger with your track record. Can you show me where I said Pavlik is the best? Anywhere? Or do you think that by saying he beats Hopkins I think he is the best. Hopkins ISN'T the best. So beating him doesn't make Pavlik the best.

Dawson > Hopkins. Many are better now....he is NOT what he was.

Mrvooh

09-30-2007, 08:37 PM

I think those threads popped up AFTER some overzealous talk from Pavlik fans actually. From what i recall...the first I read was " Bullshit stoppage! "
Then when the fans showed up, it went back and forth.
If ya drag him thru the mud, as is being done alot, that causes more overzealous as you put. I did not see one that wanted Taylor, to come out early and give him props, the excuses started first. Congradulating him is part of it too.Things, however do seem to swing from both directions..b4 we knock or praise him, let's see what happens his first defense, and see what credibility if any, his opponent has. There was talk of Duddy, and he's kinda okay. but nothing big.

kg0208

09-30-2007, 08:39 PM

From what i recall...the first I read was " Bullshit stoppage! "
Then when the fans showed up, it went back and forth.
If ya drag him thru the mud, as is being done alot, that causes more overzealous as you put. I did not see one that wanted Taylor, to come out early and give him props, the excuses started first. Congradulating him is part of it too.

Actually right after the fight there were a ton of congradulations threads to Pavlik. Also a ton of people taking credit for calling it before hand AND calling Taylor a fraud.

Prior to this we already had someone calling Pavlik G.O.A.T at MW.

Orishaman

09-30-2007, 08:44 PM

There you go saying "you guys" again.

Never call someone a hugger with your track record. Can you show me where I said Pavlik is the best? Anywhere? Or do you think that by saying he beats Hopkins I think he is the best. Hopkins ISN'T the best. So beating him doesn't make Pavlik the best.

Dawson > Hopkins. Many are better now....he is NOT what he was.

I have to laugh with your comments, you are so sure of the future that maybe you should star betting on the lottery...shit....Dude...no not all boxers carry their punching power up, in fact as a rule the big majority don't...entiende...the heavier and bigger boxers are use to stronger punches that the reason the smaller guys moving up have a tought time carrying the power also...

Bhop knows boxing, at this point Pavlik still green...let him get better and then we talk.....for know he needs to staya t 160 kepp learning improving his defese and skills....

BTW fool I never mentioned Chad on this threads or that BHop will beat Chad, on that one I think Chad is to much to strong for BHop no doubt....

kg0208

09-30-2007, 08:51 PM

I have to laugh with your comments, you are so sure of the future that maybe you should star betting on the lottery...shit....Dude...no not all boxers carry their punching power up, in fact as a rule the big majority don't...entiende...the heavier and bigger boxers are use to stronger punches that the reason the smaller guys moving up have a tought time carrying the power also...

Bhop knows boxing, at this point Pavlik still green...let him get better and then we talk.....for know he needs to staya t 160 kepp learning improving his defese and skills....

BTW fool I never mentioned Chad on this threads or that BHop will beat Chad, on that one I think Chad is to much to strong for BHop no doubt....
And now here comes the name calling.

Here is a quote from you. you are so sure of the future that maybe you should star betting on the lottery...shit....Dude...no not all boxers carry their punching power up, in fact as a rule the big majority don't
I am sure I know the future, so you laugh at me?

and by the way I know you know that Pavlik will not carry his punching power to 175 that's a fact jack!!!
Did you not just say this? You made a prediction on the future and called it a fact? Right? Anything else Orisha? I gave an opinion. I didn't call it a fact like you did.

Did I ever mention Pavlik as being the best? No, but you insinuate that I did (and ACB). I mentioned Dawson to explain that I don't think Hopkins is the best, so therefore beating Hopkins was not an insinuation that Pavlik would be the best by doing so.

Get over yourself and stop being a hypocrite.

quiet man ruiz

09-30-2007, 08:56 PM

pavlik has power. at middleweight his power is good compared to lightheavys. his power not need to carry even. just stay same.
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Orishaman

09-30-2007, 08:59 PM

And now here comes the name calling.

Here is a quote from you.
I am sure I know the future, so you laugh at me?

Did you not just say this? You made a prediction on the future and called it a fact? Right? Anything else Orisha? I gave an opinion. I didn't call it a fact like you did.

Did I ever mention Pavlik as being the best? No, but you insinuate that I did (and ACB). I mentioned Dawson to explain that I don't think Hopkins is the best, so therefore beating Hopkins was not an insinuation that Pavlik would be the best by doing so.

Get over yourself and stop being a hypocrite.

All I am saying is simple BHop at this point is till to much for Pavlik at 160 or speciallya at 175 for somereason yhou know better and said that no BHop will ge owned by Pavlik...now who is the hypocrite....you love to spin things and yet you are as full of it as any other of the many huggers on ESB....

Once again becuase the flies eat shit...it doesn't mean shit is good for you...it might be good enough for you but not for me....you certainty about your opinion doen't make it reality....things need to happen..and I will tell you that this fight will never happen for many reason but mroe that any of them is the timing and how many years BHop ahve left inside the ring.....so we will never be able to proof me or you wrong...now a fight with WW is another story, I beleive he needs to take 2 easy fights and keep improving and try to match with WW in late 2008 or early 2009 on WW last hurrah....

C Money

09-30-2007, 09:06 PM

Reality is that Pavlik just took the real MW Championship and has a rematch clause at 68, which may even pay benefit, and sets the WINNER, for the winner of Calzaghe vs Kessler. THATS WHAT'S SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN:yep

A rematch is absolutely warranted!! This came seconds from going the other way in round 2, very tense seconds:good Makes me wonder, where's the appreciation for what took place?

kg0208

09-30-2007, 09:09 PM

All I am saying is simple BHop at this point is till to much for Pavlik at 160 or speciallya at 175 for somereason yhou know better and said that no BHop will ge owned by Pavlik...now who is the hypocrite....you love to spin things and yet you are as full of it as any other of the many huggers on ESB....

Once again becuase the flies eat shit...it doesn't mean shit is good for you...it might be good enough for you but not for me....you certainty about your opinion doen't make it reality....things need to happen..and I will tell you that this fight will never happen for many reason but mroe that any of them is the timing and how many years BHop ahve left inside the ring.....so we will never be able to proof me or you wrong...now a fight with WW is another story, I beleive he needs to take 2 easy fights and keep improving and try to match with WW in late 2008 or early 2009 on WW last hurrah....
Blah blah blah....I haven't contradicted myself a single time in this thread. Quote me and show it like I did to you, or else live with the fact that as usual, your attempt at stirring things has been thwarted.

Saying Pavlik could beat Hopkins is no different than you saying Hopkins could beat Pavlik. I am no more guilty of knowing the future than you are now am I? I am no more certain of my opinion that you are....you are the only one who has said your opinion is FACT here right? If I have, show me where I said it. If you can't well.....

mattress

09-30-2007, 09:11 PM

Black peoples are mad that Pavlik won, and the White Folks are too busy rubbing it in everyone's nose.

But real boxing fans don't give a fuck what colour the man is.

Orishaman

09-30-2007, 09:23 PM

Blah blah blah....I haven't contradicted myself a single time in this thread. Quote me and show it like I did to you, or else live with the fact that as usual, your attempt at stirring things has been thwarted.

Saying Pavlik could beat Hopkins is no different than you saying Hopkins could beat Pavlik. I am no more guilty of knowing the future than you are now am I? I am no more certain of my opinion that you are....you are the only one who has said your opinion is FACT here right? If I have, show me where I said it. If you can't well.....

So if we are both stating your opinion,what's the issue here...we both stating your opinion and as always you ahve to be dure your opinion is the real deal which is waht crack me up about you...you are the type a person that threw a stone and then hide the hand and point the finger at someone else...I ahve you figure out for what you are....so

Let just said this...your post speaks volume on the type of person you are.....I am opinionaded and I don't hide it nor hide behind any type of bulll shit I stand behind of what I beleive and when it come to historical issues I have always presented eveidence to back up my theories...contrary to you who work strickly on inuendos and no data to back it up....

History, so back to the topic in hand: Bhop v Pavlik at 175...history ahs shown that most boxers don't carry the power to the higher weight classes...BHop Beat a true younger and power puncher 175 for the LHW title, in fact BHop KD the cat that was supposed to owned him, BHop took Tarver to school, and in all honesty , at the low rate of BHop he still won the WW fight when everyone else including Jermain Taylkor seem to ahve problems with his style..not BHop...so with those factual statement I simply say that Pavlik will have a tought time getting close to BHop to punch...Pavlik compare to BHop is a kid a kid.....Ok...so respect Bhop experince , in the ring is worth a lot...

Hell I know this is not a reflection on you, but some of this fools are already comparing Pavlik to an ATG like MMH...please....let Pavlik hold the title for 7 or 8 years before you start the comparison to any ATG calyber boxer...

kg0208

09-30-2007, 09:34 PM

So if we are both stating your opinion,what's the issue here...we both stating your opinion and as always you ahve to be dure your opinion is the real deal which is waht crack me up about you...you are the type a person that threw a stone and then hide the hand and point the finger at someone else...I ahve you figure out for what you are....so

Let just said this...your post speaks volume on the type of person you are.....I am opinionaded and I don't hide it nor hide behind any type of bulll shit I stand behind of what I beleive and when it come to historical issues I have always presented eveidence to back up my theories...contrary to you who work strickly on inuendos and no data to back it up....

History, so back to the topic in hand: Bhop v Pavlik at 175...history ahs shown that most boxers don't carry the power to the higher weight classes...BHop Beat a true younger and power puncher 175 for the LHW title, in fact BHop KD the cat that was supposed to owned him, BHop took Tarver to school, and in all honesty , at the low rate of BHop he still won the WW fight when everyone else including Jermain Taylkor seem to ahve problems with his style..not BHop...so with those factual statement I simply say that Pavlik will have a tought time getting close to BHop to punch...Pavlik compare to BHop is a kid a kid.....Ok...so respect Bhop experince , in the ring is worth a lot...

Hell I know this is not a reflection on you, but some of this fools are already comparing Pavlik to an ATG like MMH...please....let Pavlik hold the title for 7 or 8 years before you start the comparison to any ATG calyber boxer...
When and if you can prove I have said anything that you accused me of, then get back to me. Otherwise, I have proven my point and have no need to repeat myself. You have always been a trouble maker and a spinner Orisha. You hide behind some false moral high road, all the while anyone who has read this thread can see that every chance you get you have called anyone who disagrees with you names (nuthuggers, fools, etc) and I quoted your hypocritical stance on opinions being fact, proving you are the one who said your opinion was right and everyone else was wrong. So again, you're right, my post say alot about me....as do yours.

I am fully aware BTW of your "arch enemy" post. Newsflash. You are at odds with most people here. It's why you are always trying to downplay majority opinions as being bad.

Oh, and you work with facts? Name one FACT you have used here to back anything up. Remember, you are the one who claims you can factually prove that Jones Jr is not in the Top 100 ATG fighters ever. Prove it.

platnumpapi

09-30-2007, 09:36 PM

kelly beat the other big hitters in the mw divison in mirnada and taylor.so i dont see anyother mw right now thay he could not beat.bhop is on another level and bhop would out class him kelly big time.

winky hmm, shit the new winky lets his hands go alot more and jt was able to bust him up and break the guard some what, im quite sure kelly could do the same.

at 36 im not sure if winky has the legs to box the whole night against a big pressure fighter like kelly.i like winky alot i just dont like him at 160, my thing is he can outbox anyone in the mw divison but he lacks power big time.

if winky had kellys power he would have droped him when he fought jt, winky does have a good beard and can block well.i just think winky would have problems with a guy that throws alot of punches with power and im for sure winky cant hurt him.so kp might run him over, but if winky keeps the jab going and boxes he can get a ud.

if he can keep it up for 12rds and not get hurt but thats big if to me a big if !

Orishaman

09-30-2007, 09:39 PM

When and if you can prove I have said anything that you accused me of, then get back to me. Otherwise, I have proven my point and have no need to repeat myself. You have always been a trouble maker and a spinner Orisha. You hide behind some false moral high road, all the while anyone who has read this thread can see that every chance you get you have called anyone who disagrees with you names (nuthuggers, fools, etc) and I quoted your hypocritical stance on opinions being fact, proving you are the one who said your opinion was right and everyone else was wrong. So again, you're right, my post say alot about me....as do yours.

I am fully aware BTW of your "arch enemy" post. Newsflash. You are at odds with most people here. It's why you are always trying to downplay majority opinions as being bad.

I am my own man and public opinion mean shit specially on a cyber lounge, sure is fun talk boxing, but folls like you that never had even get close to a real ring or boxing gym, think know boxing and are bocypherous on their opinion while the chumps admire you disguised style..abtwa if you read the thread on that post you will see that I did't cut on you...here;s the post

kg0208, is not my arch-enemy but he and I seem to butt heads on any topic we choose, with the exception of very few...so I enjoy debating with him....back in the days probably Window...

So once again you have not proof of any wrong doing by me...here was my post. now did I dish on you I want you to sholw me...if not eat crow and admit you talk to much....now if you can find were I punk you out ..show me, or shut up......

C Money

09-30-2007, 09:41 PM

Black peoples are mad that Pavlik won, and the White Folks are too busy rubbing it in everyone's nose.

Individuals fitting that description? Are equivalent to the "Blind Leading the Blind."

Fuck that shit:good

Winners vs winners = Boxing Wins

Thats whatsup:good

kg0208

09-30-2007, 09:49 PM

I am my own man and public opinion mean shit specially on a cyber lounge, sure is fun talk boxing, but folls like you that never had even get close to a real ring or boxing gym, think know boxing and are bocypherous on their opinion while the chumps admire you disguised style..abtwa if you read the thread on that post you will see that I did't cut on you...here;s the post

So once again you have not proof of any wrong doing by me...here was my post. now did I dish on you I want you to sholw me...if not eat crow and admit you talk to much....now if you can find were I punk you out ..show me, or shut up......
Did I say you were wrong or DID anything wrong? No, what I said was that you are at odds with everyone, obviously referring to the fact that you made it sound like you and I were the only ones at odds, when in reality, you are at odds with MANY people ALOT of the time.

You are at odds with most people here. It's why you are always trying to downplay majority opinions as being bad. Is there anything in there that says you're horrible or anything like that? Didn't think so. Did I say you said anything bad about me? No...I am pointing out that you are at odds OFTEN with the majority of posters on your opinions and that for some reason, you think that I am a special case.

I don't care if you are your own person. It doesn't make you right. The majority is not always right. But they damn sure are not always wrong.

Orishaman

09-30-2007, 10:01 PM

Did I say you were wrong or DID anything wrong? No, what I said was that you are at odds with everyone, obviously referring to the fact that you made it sound like you and I were the only ones at odds, when in reality, you are at odds with MANY people ALOT of the time.

Is there anything in there that says you're horrible or anything like that? Didn't think so. Did I say you said anything bad about me? No...I am pointing out that you are at odds OFTEN with the majority of posters on your opinions and that for some reason, you think that I am a special case.

I don't care if you are your own person. It doesn't make you right. The majority is not always right. But they damn sure are not always wrong.

BTW you fail once again to show the facts....as you pointed out:

I am fully aware BTW of your "arch enemy" post.

which I posted the acutal post...which you purposly blockout...in typical fashion...so here is my post one more time talking about you:

kg0208, is not my arch-enemy but he and I seem to butt heads on any topic we choose, with the exception of very few...so I enjoy debating with him....back in the days probably Window...

So I never insulted you I stated facts once again...you are own...BTW...look at the name of thread:

**Ok-let's not be crazy-Pavlik beat Jermain...that's it for now**

...simply stating ...Ok great win for Pavlik, enjoyed it..let's get back to work to improved your deficienciesbefore you are crown an MW ATG after one fight...that's my point..so waht is so wrong about that statement that affected you so much to open your hole and say that Pavlik is ready to take on BHop or WW...

kg0208

09-30-2007, 10:15 PM

BTW you fail once again to show the facts....as you pointed out:

which I posted the acutal post...which you purposly blockout...in typical fashion...so here is my post one more time talking about you:

So I never insulted you I stated facts once again...you are own...BTW...look at the name of thread:

...simply stating ...Ok great win for Pavlik, enjoyed it..let's get back to work to improved your deficienciesbefore you are crown an MW ATG after one fight...that's my point..so waht is so wrong about that statement that affected you so much to open your hole and say that Pavlik is ready to take on BHop or WW...

LMAO....I purposely blocked it out.

Lets take the whole post Orisha "I am itching for a fight" man.

I am fully aware BTW of your "arch enemy" post. Newsflash. You are at odds with most people here. It's why you are always trying to downplay majority opinions as being bad.

Now...point out where I say you said anything wrong. What doesn't my explanation cover. I pointed it out because as I said, you are at odds with most posters, not just me. For some reason though, you think it's just me....you following now? Can you point out for your own credibilities sake where I said you insulted me? You DID however insult me earlier in the this thread.

Now to finish you off. Stay on point here Orisha.

..simply stating ...Ok great win for Pavlik, enjoyed it..let's get back to work to improved your deficienciesbefore you are crown an MW ATG after one fight...that's my point..so waht is so wrong about that statement that affected you so much to open your hole and say that Pavlik is ready to take on BHop or WW..

You just said this right? You want to know what is wrong with what you said that I had to open my mouth and say that Pavlik is ready to fight Hopkins or WW? Let me help you.

Brooklyn said this:
He really needs to improve his defense...he's just too straight up. That said, I think he could beat Winky right now.

Then I responded with this:
Yah, he is too big for Wright. I think he would stop Wright.

Then Brooklyn responded:
I'm not sure about Hopkins though. How would Pavlik carry 175 pounds and would it have a positive or negative effect on his performance. Could he outwork Hopkins and win a decision? Could he stop Hopkins for the 1st time? Or would Hopkins slick and cagey style give Pavlik trouble enough for the 42 year old to pull it out? Could be an interesting fight, but I doubt we will ever see it.

Then I responded:
Hopkins is getting old and his workrate is horrible now. I think he could beat him on that alone. Hopkins is getting by against older fighters, but fighting Pavlik will be another thing entirely.

I think he could be 175 easily if he has been draining to make 160. He has a big frame. I still think Dawson beats him rather easily.

Then you responded directly under me:
BHop experience will eat Pavlik alive....let;s not get crazy here please...Jermain style was taylored made for Pavlik, and he needed to digged deep so he could win so..yes ..he beat Jeramin but that;s it for know, he needs to improve on his defence before he can even start talikg the slick WW or the slippery BHop

Then DIRECTLY TO ME:
styles make fight and Jermain was taylored made for Pavlik, and as I mentioned even with that working for him he needed to dig deep, very deep to win the fight. so a slick BHop even with his work rate will present plenty of trouble for Pavlik....BHop is to skill and knows the science...Pavlik defensive deficiencies will be exploded by the older but still slick WW....

So to answer your little question....I didn't respond to you. I was talking to Brooklyn. It was YOU who started in on ME about my opinion. I don't care, just don't try and play a victim and insinuate I attacked your opinion on Pavlik-Taylor.

Orishaman

09-30-2007, 10:22 PM

LMAO....I purposely blocked it out.

Lets take the whole post Orisha "I am itching for a fight" man.

Now...point out where I say you said anything wrong. What doesn't my explanation cover. I pointed it out because as I said, you are at odds with most posters, not just me. For some reason though, you think it's just me....you following now? Can you point out for your own credibilities sake where I said you insulted me? You DID however insult me earlier in the this thread.

Now to finish you off. Stay on point here Orisha.

You just said this right? You want to know what is wrong with what you said that I had to open my mouth and say that Pavlik is ready to fight Hopkins or WW? Let me help you.

Brooklyn said this:

Then I responded with this:

Then Brooklyn responded:

Then I responded:

Then you responded directly under me:

Then DIRECTLY TO ME:

So to answer your little question....I didn't respond to you. I was talking to Brooklyn. It was YOU who started in on ME about my opinion. I don't care, just don't try and play a victim and insinuate I attacked your opinion on Pavlik-Taylor.

Well you and Broklyn are both wrong making way to much of this victory by Pavlik, by the way when you reference the archrival thread, we can clearly see, you real meaning, now that you are a real man and admited what you ment that;s anothter story.....I can clearly see you meaning....

There you go again with your spinning doctor qualities .....

then you can just not post regarding youself, you have to bring the "everyone at ESB" ...which again I simply reply....attimes is fun to debate with knowledgable fellows like Zivic and we can debate and disagree but with you, is well is my opinion and everyone like me, so what I said is law...which I reply ..WTFC about your bias unfactual opinions....

o_money

09-30-2007, 10:25 PM

there is a thread on if he would fight ali!! AND people think he would win! WHAT IS GOING ON?

hahhhahahaha this is a joke right?

link please cause I have to see what morons are saying this.

Orishaman

09-30-2007, 10:26 PM

hahhhahahaha this is a joke right?

link please cause I have to see what morons are saying this.

Is a fact...I saw also...unbeleivable...after one fight they are ready to crown him ATG...typical ESBstuff ...priceless:rofl

kg0208

09-30-2007, 10:28 PM

Well you and Broklyn are both wrong making way to much of this victory by Pavlik, by the way when you reference the archrival thread, we can clearly see, you real meaning, now that you are a real man and admited what you ment that;s anothter story.....I can clearly see you meaning....

There you go again with your spinning doctor qualities .....

then you can just not post regarding youself, you have to bring the "everyone at ESB" ...which again I simply reply....attimes is fun to debate with knowledgable fellows like Zivic and we can debate and disagree but with you, is well is my opinion and everyone like me, so what I said is law...which I reply ..WTFC about your bias unfactual opinions....
Don't bother me with your inferiority complex. I don't care what you think I said about you. That was the point of what I said, and thank you for proving it. I pointed out the thread because you ALWAYS try to play some victim. Stop being a baby.

Funny enough, you say this:
but with you, is well is my opinion and everyone like me, so what I said is law..
And then in the same post say this:
Well you and Broklyn are both wrong making way to much of this victory by Pavlik,
Like I said. You're a hypocrite. Talk about being man enough....I just quoted you getting the entire premise of a conversation wrong (trying to play the vicitim as usual) and did you say "Oh I was wrong"? No....you just tell me that Brooklyn and I are wrong about our opinions and make no mention of your screw up in thinking or trying to play it off as though someone started a fight with you.

kg0208

09-30-2007, 10:33 PM

BTW, I only post my opinion. I only mention others opinions because you like to play this card that people who disagree with you are suddenly crazy to have that opinion. I simply like pointing out that for some reason, everyone is always crazy BUT YOU.

Not to mention, in our original disagreement, I distinctly remember you saying that most people didn't think Jones was a top 100 ATG, and when I started the poll, you said you didn't care about others opinions. You then used Bert Sugar as your backup....

China_hand_Joe

09-30-2007, 10:34 PM

Well you and Broklyn are both wrong making way to much of this victory by Pavlik.

I don't believe they are, not to an extreme extent anyway. kg_123 just has a realistic evaluation of where Hopkins is at.

Orishaman

09-30-2007, 10:38 PM

Don't bother me with your inferiority complex. I don't care what you think I said about you. That was the point of what I said, and thank you for proving it. I pointed out the thread because you ALWAYS try to play some victim. Stop being a baby.

Funny enough, you say this:

And then in the same post say this:

Like I said. You're a hypocrite. Talk about being man enough....I just quoted you getting the entire premise of a conversation wrong (trying to play the vicitim as usual) and did you say "Oh I was wrong"? No....you just tell me that Brooklyn and I are wrong about our opinions and make no mention of your screw up in thinking or trying to play it off as though someone started a fight with you.

I play the victim for the last hour you keep trying to spinning the rethoric so that you look good...I got our game plan and you spinning bullshit, I don't care what you think, nor I talk behind peoples back which was what you incinuated by your referal to thearch enemy post, and then don;t have the ball to admited...so his the hypocrite here....I come straight at you regrdless waht I said I stand behind, not like you who choooses to spin and spin...and BTW the quote that you posted I was talking and referring to you not me, here;s the entire post chump:
then you can just not post regarding youself, you have to bring the "everyone at ESB" ...which again I simply reply....attimes is fun to debate with knowledgable fellows like Zivic and we can debate and disagree but with you, is well is my opinion and everyone like me, so what I said is law...which I reply ..WTFC about your bias unfactual opinions........refering to you and your crownies ...saying well waht I say is law..refereing to your post....

Orishaman

09-30-2007, 10:40 PM

I don't believe they are, not to an extreme extent anyway. kg_123 just has a realistic evaluation of where Hopkins is at.

BTW I am not disagreing that BHop is past his prime, but still dangerous man just on expeince alone....and that's a fact....hell you all gave him for dead against Tarver...proof you all wrong, Tarver a real LHW not a blown MW....that;s my point..he discourge Tarver on experince alone

kg0208

09-30-2007, 10:43 PM

I play the victim for the last hour you keep trying to spinning the rethoric so that you look good...I got our game plan and you spinning bullshit, I don't care what you think, nor I talk behind peoples back which was what you incinuated by your referal to thearch enemy post, and then don;t have the ball to admited...so his the hypocrite here....I come straight at you regrdless waht I said I stand behind, not like you who choooses to spin and spin...and BTW the quote that you posted I was talking and referring to you not me, here;s the entire post chump:
....refering to you and your crownies ...saying well waht I say is law..refereing to your post....
You're repeating yourself now. And you apparently can't read well either. Of course the post I quoted was about me. Never said it wasn't. That was the whole point. Pay attention Orisha.

I quoted a post where you say that I believe my opinion is law. Then I quoted a post where you tell me my opinion is wrong, and that you are right. So apparently, I am not the only one who thinks his opinion is the correct one. I present my opinion no different than yours usually. If anything, I rarely say "You are wrong and I am right". I just say I don't agree with you and point out why. You are the one telling people they are wrong. Got it now?

China_hand_Joe

09-30-2007, 10:46 PM

BTW I am not disagreing that BHop is past his prime, but still dangerous man just on expeince alone....and that's a fact....hell you all gave him for dead against Tarver...proof you all wrong, Tarver a real LHW not a blown MW....that;s my point..he discourge Tarver on experince alone

I didn't pick Tarver.

But those picking Tarver weren't have anticipated how bad Tarver has become and were guilty of underestimating Hopkins size

You can get away with a Hopkins' punch output against someone like a totally inactive Tarver. Pavlik won't afford you that time. Of course Hopkins is smart and will anticipate Pavliks' punches. He only has a jab and that right really. So Hopkin will totally outsmart him, read him like a book and take some of the very early rounds perhaps. But Pavliks workrate, strength and youth would catch up, despite Hopkins intelligence and style being advantageous (they would be advantagous were he younger). Hopkins wouldn't have a sustainable (at his age) gameplan.

Orishaman

09-30-2007, 10:48 PM

Your repeating yourself now. And you apparently can't read well either. Of course the post I quoted was about me. Never said it wasn't. That was the whole point.

You are a funny cat...you don;t care what I said yet you spend the last hour back and forth with me....that is funny shit.....funny shit...and BTW....as I mentioned before you were one of the ones that let BHop for dead against Tarver and look the result...he won that fight on experince alone..never underestimate a master boxer like BHop regardless of his work rate declining...he will make you miss and the hiugh volume of a guy like Pavlik hitting air for 6 or 7 rounds will start to show signs of frustrationa and tireness....I am tire..we can contine this tomorrow...love yah Bro!!!!:hi:

Orishaman

09-30-2007, 10:49 PM

I didn't pick Tarver.

But those picking Tarver weren't have anticipated how bad Tarver has become and were guilty of underestimating Hopkins size.

You can get away with a Hopkins' punch output against someone like a totally inactive Tarver. Pavlik won't afford you that time. Of course Hopkins is smart and will anticipate Pavliks' punches. He only has a jab and that right really. So Hopkin will totally outsmart him and take some of the early rounds.

But Pavliks workrate, strength and youth would catch up, despite Hopkins intelligence and style being advantageous (well they would be advantagous were he younger).

Tarver didn;t start inactive and catatonic, was BHop ability to frustrate Tarver that turned him into catatonic state.....remember that

kg0208

09-30-2007, 10:51 PM

You are a funny cat...you don;t care what I said yet you spend the last hour back and forth with me....that is funny shit.....funny shit...and BTW....as I mentioned before you were one of the ones that let BHop for dead against Tarver and look the result...he won that fight on experince alone..never underestimate a master boxer like BHop regardless of his work rate declining...he will make you miss and the hiugh volume of a guy like Pavlik hitting air for 6 or 7 rounds will start to show signs of frustrationa and tireness....I am tire..we can contine this tomorrow...love yah Bro!!!!:hi:
Actually, I know what you said better than you. I think I have easily proven that it's you who is mixed up. But if it makes you feel better to believe what you believe, go right on ahead.

I never left Hopkins for dead on anything....what are you talking about now? The only comment I made before the Hopkins-Tarver fight was "I am not sure if Hopkins will carry the weight well at his age. If he doesn't Tarver will win".

You just make things up now right? Kinda like when you made the off color joke about me not liking Puerto Ricans before I told you I was half Puerto Rican:lol::lol:

Orishaman

09-30-2007, 10:59 PM

Actually, I know what you said better than you. I think I have easily proven that it's you who is mixed up. But if it makes you feel better to believe what you believe, go right on ahead.

I never left Hopkins for dead on anything....what are you talking about now? The only comment I made before the Hopkins-Tarver fight was "I am not sure if Hopkins will carry the weight well at his age. If he doesn't Tarver will win".

You just make things up now right? Kinda like when you made the off color joke about me not liking Puerto Ricans before I told you I was half Puerto Rican:lol::lol:

Half Puerto Rican is not a full Puerto Rican, lets get that straight...I am 100% Puerto Rican and very proud of it....

Now, the fact that you so enphatically said: Well I am not sure if BHop will carry the weight..well guess waht he did..and he owned TRarver, he systematically got on his head and beat him metally before he beat him physically, and that's waht BHop can do, that's experince ringmanship...intangibles...etc....and if this fight would eve happen-which it won't for the reasons I mentioned earlier-the intangibles will favor BHop..and that's what I based my opinion that BHop would win this fight, it would be easy like Tarver but he still will find a way....so yes you did let BHop out for dead.....:hi:

kg0208

09-30-2007, 11:01 PM

Half Puerto Rican is not a full Puerto Rican, lets get that straight...I am 100% Puerto Rican and very proud of it....

Now, the fact that you so enphatically said: Well I am not sure if BHop will carry the weight..well guess waht he did..and he owned TRarver, he systematically got on his head and beat him metally before he beat him physically, and that's waht BHop can do, that's experince ringmanship...intangibles...etc....and if this fight would eve happen-which it won't for the reasons I mentioned earlier-the intangibles will favor BHop..and that's what I based my opinion that BHop would win this fight, it would be easy like Tarver but he still will find a way....so yes you did let BHop out for dead.....:hi:
You looked like an idiot when you said that and you know it. As a matter of fact, you backtracked and said I couldn't take a joke:deal Half, Full blooded....who cares?

So, my saying that I was unsure if Hopkins could carry the weight, and that if he couldn't Tarver would win, means I left Hopkins for dead?:lol::lol::lol:

Talk about spinning. :hat I "emphatically" said it? How did I "emphatically say it"? Enlighten me.

Orishaman

10-01-2007, 07:24 PM

You looked like an idiot when you said that and you know it. As a matter of fact, you backtracked and said I couldn't take a joke:deal Half, Full blooded....who cares?

So, my saying that I was unsure if Hopkins could carry the weight, and that if he couldn't Tarver would win, means I left Hopkins for dead?:lol::lol::lol:

Talk about spinning. :hat I "emphatically" said it? How did I "emphatically say it"? Enlighten me.

Beleive me, half-Puerto Rican is not Puerto Rican..and why you didn't mentioned this fact from the begining rather than in one of our discussions....are you ashamed of it...I am not...in fact I am hell proud of it and like to sreamed it to the four winds: Yo Soy Boricua..mi amor es Puerto Rico....

Anyhow, you left BHop for dead before the Tarver fight, on your "right on" analysis of carrying the weight, which clearly shows your flawed theories, BHop proof you wrong onece and agaisnt Pavlik, which it will never happend, he probably would ahe proof you wrong also...:yep

Amsterdam

10-01-2007, 07:27 PM

Yah, he is too big for Wright. I think he would stop Wright.

I'm glad you, myself and Brooklyn are on the same page regarding where Wright currently stands, three council members agreeing is a plus.:good

Sinew

10-01-2007, 07:32 PM

Bernard couldnt even get past the workrate of Taylor. Pavlik takes him at this point.

LOL you act like he has no chance to beat Bernard. He just KTFOd the middle weight champion of the world.

This doesnt have anything to do with him beating Mirandas ass does it? The Puerto Rican adopted Miranda?

Bernard didnt get dropped by Taylor either:hey I am really happy for Pav with this win. But I dont know how Pav could get past Hop. At this point BHop may be too old to contend with Pav , but Pav could get countered HARD by BHop...Its definantely a scenario.

kg0208

10-01-2007, 07:34 PM

Beleive me, half-Puerto Rican is not Puerto Rican..and why you didn't mentioned this fact from the begining rather than in one of our discussions....are you ashamed of it...I am not...in fact I am hell proud of it and like to sreamed it to the four winds: Yo Soy Boricua..mi amor es Puerto Rico....

Anyhow, you left BHop for dead before the Tarver fight, on your "right on" analysis of carrying the weight, which clearly shows your flawed theories, BHop proof you wrong onece and agaisnt Pavlik, which it will never happend, he probably would ahe proof you wrong also...:yep

:lol::lol::lol:

You're reaching. If I had said "Hopkins can't carry the weight so he will lose" you would have a point. Saying "If Hopkins can't carry the weight, Tarver will win" is not a declaration or prediction. It's recognizing factors involved in the fight. No prediction was made, so you have nothing to stand on. Moving on.

Beleive me, half-Puerto Rican is not Puerto Rican..and why you didn't mentioned this fact from the begining rather than in one of our discussions....are you ashamed of it...I am not

One of the dumber things you have ever said:deal Should I run around in each thread screaming my ethnicity? BTW, I had mentioned it before...you not seeing it is not my problem. The real problem here was you accusing me of not liking Puerto Ricans, which is why it was mentioned in the first place. Nice try to deflect the situation. I don't care if you are half anything or full anything. There is no difference to me. If there is to you...good for you.

China_hand_Joe

10-01-2007, 07:34 PM

kg0208

10-01-2007, 07:35 PM

Prime Hopkins (sometimes mistaken for green Hopkins) would badly embarrass Pavlik. Badly embarrass the man with only two functional punches.

Now though Hopkins has pretty much zero chance himself agaist Pavik.

Prime Hopkins was a more fundementally sound Pavlik. A stalker with good power and brutal technical skills. His destruction of Glen Johnson was a thing of beauty.

Orishaman

10-01-2007, 07:37 PM

I'm glad you, myself and Brooklyn are on the same page regarding where Wright currently stands, three council members agreeing is a plus.:good

I am amazed at you guys one agrees with the same conclusion.... that automatically makes it so...it has to be the Council has spoken...Dude this is not Star Wars....dude...WW is a slick fighter, and sure he is not the fighter he was as recently as fighting Tito, but he still ahs the defence and the move to make a tough fight against anyone....can he beat Pavlik and amke him look bad absolutely, I don' care if Pavlik is 8' ...WW is not a small cat himself at nearly 6'-0", now WW would be connecting from angles that Pavlik is not use to, and his lack of defence will be compromize on this fight, Pavlik might punch himself out trying to connect on WW...WW can take a punch also....now if he was able to control a stronger Tito, I beleive he can control a Kelly pavlik....

China_hand_Joe

10-01-2007, 07:38 PM

Prime Hopkins was a more fundementally sound Pavlik. A stalker with good power and brutal technical skills. His destruction of Glen Johnson was a thing of beauty.

Of course there are those who claim his prime was when he was fighting Eastman...

Typical trend with the American boxing media to credit fighters too late. To think Calzaghe's P4P rating might well peak, as he's declining.

China_hand_Joe

10-01-2007, 07:42 PM

I am amazed at you guys one agrees with the same conclusion.... that automatically makes it so...it has to be the Council has spoken...Dude this is not Star Wars....dude...WW is a slick fighter, and sure he is not the fighter he was as recently as fighting Tito, but he still ahs the defence and the move to make a tough fight against anyone....can he beat Pavlik and amke him look bad absolutely, I don' care if Pavlik is 8' ...WW is not a small cat himself at nearly 6'-0", now WW would be connecting from angles that Pavlik is not use to, and his lack of defence will be compromize on this fight, Pavlik might punch himself out trying to connect on WW...WW can take a punch also....now if he was able to control a stronger Tito, I beleive he can control a Kelly pavlik....

When I also agree it becomes an accepted fact. There is more to size than height, the fact Wright was a welter-weight tells you he is structually smaller. The fight with Taylor, again we saw how big of a disadvantage his size was. Without any power or strength and now lacking even speed, Wright vs Pavlik is a compete physical mismatch, especially given Pavlik's own strength. It is just as big of a physical mismatch as Wright vs Hopkins.

Orishaman

10-01-2007, 07:45 PM

All of a sudden reading your post is the best MW since Carlos Monzon...please...he beat Jermain...he got pounded preatty good by Jermain who's skills are alightly above an amateur fighter...he makes up his lack of boxing skills with great ahtletic ability...now Pavlik won the fight becuase this lack of ringmanship and understanding what to do specially when you opponent is deeply hurt.....and true Pavlik will has to be part of that equation...but the deriving force was simply Jermain inhability to clsoe the show....Kudos to Pavlik for the win, but guys the guys has major flaws that will need to be corrected when dealing with master boxers of the calyber of BHop or WW.

rydersonthestorm

10-01-2007, 07:46 PM

I can't wait for calzaghe or kessler to school pavlik and stop this stupid nut hugging.

Orishaman

10-01-2007, 07:47 PM

When I also agree it becomes an accepted fact. There is more to size than height, the fact Wright was a welter-weight tells you he is structually smaller. The fight with Taylor, again we saw how big of a disadvantage his size was. Without any power or strength and now lacking even speed, Wright vs Pavlik is a compete physical mismatch, especially given Pavlik's own strength. It is just as big of a physical mismatch as Wright vs Hopkins.

well the fight that I saw of Taylor v WW was nothing to what you descriobe, and BTW....WW started as a JRMW and stayed there for the best part of his career, so sure, he is slightly smaller, but he can carry the weight well, and still be ellusive...he proved it again JT....now id you say 175 well that is another story but at 160...it is fair game...

Orishaman

10-01-2007, 07:49 PM

:lol::lol::lol:

You're reaching. If I had said "Hopkins can't carry the weight so he will lose" you would have a point. Saying "If Hopkins can't carry the weight, Tarver will win" is not a declaration or prediction. It's recognizing factors involved in the fight. No prediction was made, so you have nothing to stand on. Moving on.

One of the dumber things you have ever said:deal Should I run around in each thread screaming my ethnicity? BTW, I had mentioned it before...you not seeing it is not my problem. The real problem here was you accusing me of not liking Puerto Ricans, which is why it was mentioned in the first place. Nice try to deflect the situation. I don't care if you are half anything or full anything. There is no difference to me. If there is to you...good for you.

Not really but hiding it ..says a lot about you.....like I said half something is not the same as full of something....

kg0208

10-01-2007, 07:50 PM

I can't wait for calzaghe or kessler to school pavlik and stop this stupid nut hugging.

They would both beat Pavlik. They are not Hopkins and Wright....they haven't shown slowed workrates, decreases in speed, or any of those things. Hell, Kessler is prime. Wright and Hopkins are not.

kg0208

10-01-2007, 07:52 PM

Not really but hiding it ..says a lot about you.....like I said half something is not the same as full of something....
Orisha, give it up:patsch

Hiding it would entail my denying it. I never have. I just don't run screaming it, since it has nothing to do with anything. I assume you do? You can never admit you're wrong. This whole subject says alot about you. When you are talking about Heritage and culture, half and half basically means you have 2 WHOLE cultures to learn and be proud of instead of one. I wouldn't expect someone as ignorant as you to get that. Or are you saying you are better cuz you're a WHOLE Puerto Rican?

Orishaman

10-01-2007, 07:53 PM

Kelly Pavlik has nothing to look with Joe C or Kessler...at this point he needs to take a couple of easy fights and solidify his stronghold on the MW division before he can move to 168 and beat any top tier 168lber

Orishaman

10-01-2007, 08:00 PM

Orisha, give it up:patsch

Hiding it would entail my denying it. I never have. I just don't run screaming it, since it has nothing to do with anything. I assume you do? You can never admit you're wrong. This whole subject says alot about you. When you are talking about Heritage and culture, half and half basically means you have 2 WHOLE cultures to learn and be proud of instead of one. I wouldn't expect someone as ignorant as you to get that.

absolutely...I am ignorant and you are a high end schoolar....:rofl ..sure you have two cultures, but you are one or the other there's always one dominat culture...most people that are African American along with some type of variation of Anglo, will choose the African American ethnicity for many reason, but the most clear and obvious is that society treat them as African American that why they gravitate and embraced the culture far more than the Anglo even thou, as you mentioned, the have 2 half cultures...same thing when you have other culture, the off speing will gravitate toward one for many soci-cultural reason...and that is a fact.....but what do I know...in fact I can tell far more about you by your comment, it seems to me that you have gravitate away from you 50% PR heritage toward your other half for reasons that are only clear to you and soci-cultural along with your enviroments that created the reason for you to put your PR heritage in the back seat....but hey what do I know ...you are the schoolar ...I am the ignorant one....:rofl

kg0208

10-01-2007, 08:05 PM

absolutely...I am ignorant and you are a high end schoolar....:rofl ..sure you have two cultures, but you are one or the other there's always one dominat culture...most people that are African American along with some type of variation of Anglo, will choose the African American ethnicity for many reason, but the most clear and obvious is that society treat them as African American that why they gravitate and embraced the culture far more than the Anglo even thou, as you mentioned, the have 2 half cultures...same thing when you have other culture, the off speing will gravitate toward one for many soci-cultural reason...and that is a fact.....but what do I know...in fact I can tell far more about you by your comment, it seems to me that you have gravitate away from you 50% PR heritage toward your other half for reasons that are only clear to you and soci-cultural along with your enviroments that created the reason for you to put your PR heritage in the back seat....but hey what do I know ...you are the schoolar ...I am the ignorant one....:rofl
Add this to another long list of ignorant things you have said.

There is always one dominant culture? :lol::lol::lol: Yes, you have every interracial person in America pegged oh mighty Orisha.

So tell me Orisha, oh psychic schoolar (what the hell is a schoolar?), what comments have I made that make you think I gravitate towards one culture over the other? Am I really black to you or something? Enlighten me:deal Pinpoint them, quote them. Expose my what makes you think these things.

kg0208

10-01-2007, 08:10 PM

Orishaman

10-01-2007, 08:12 PM

Add this to another long list of ignorant things you have said.

There is always one dominant culture? :lol::lol::lol: Yes, you have every interracial person in America pegged oh mighty Orisha.

So tell me Orisha, oh psychic schoolar (what the hell is a schoolar?), what comments have I made that make you think I gravitate towards one culture over the other? Am I really black to you or something? Enlighten me:deal Pinpoint them, quote them. Expose my what makes you think these things.

No No...I am the ignorant remember, now if you don't understand this issue by-cultural people , one culture will be dominant...it is a fact ..but don;t take it from me...read about....many studies have been made on this issue alone....but hey you are the Rhodes Scholar...pardon the extra o...it is n ot the first time...is part of my ignorant way....

Once again you failed to understand a topic simply because your ego....but like I said you chaeck it ...proof me wrong...as I mentioned many studies on this subject have been published...

Orishaman

10-01-2007, 08:18 PM

I would like to point out one of the more idiotic things you said. Comparing being half black and half white with being half black and half puerto rican is non sense.

One grouping had a race war that is still not completely finished. Of course that involves a different dynamic. The other isn't. Hell, there are full blooded PR darker than me, so outside appearance isn't going to effect how I'm treated.

Once again you failed to understand Soci-cultural issues....being PR is still brings to the table a parallel racial discrimination...and if you don;t understand this fact is becuase you have been insulated from this issue...Americans ...specially in New England and the east coast are still prejudicial to PR's as they are with African Americans..again you might not be aware of it, so I will spare my reason why, but you have been isulated from this prejudicial treatment, I haven't and I am a lite skin PR compared to my brothers and sis....in fact as I mentioned in many topics in here...Growing up in PR I never experinece any racial tension until I arrive in the USA in Atlanta Ga. many years ago....

kg0208

10-01-2007, 08:20 PM

No No...I am the ignorant remember, now if you don't understand this issue by-cultural people , one culture will be dominant...it is a fact ..but don;t take it from me...read about....many studies have been made on this issue alone....but hey you are the Rhodes Scholar...pardon the extra o...it is n ot the first time...is part of my ignorant way....

Once again you failed to understand a topic simply because your ego....but like I said you chaeck it ...proof me wrong...as I mentioned many studies on this subject have been published...

This just in, Orishaman can tell you all the rules on how to be Puerto Rican, the RIGHT way:thumbsup

I have no need to prove you wrong Orisha. This is clearly about you ego. You are the authority on how to act Puerto Rican now right? I mean, you can tell I have gravitated away from it by my comments about being multi cultural.

Yes, there are studies. And the studies show that MOST gravitate towards one over the other. Does the study say EVERYONE does? No, in fact given certain circumstances it can change the decision and dynamic entirely. You assumed I was part of one group without klnowing my circumstances....all in your effort to prove yourself correct. What are my circumstances Orisha, oh mighty psychic and authority on how to act Puerto Rican?

The topic is simple. You started an argument you cannot win. You said I didn't like Puerto Ricans when in fact I am 1/2 PR making you look stupid. Now you are trying to spin this as best as possible to come out on top. I think I covered everything.

Orishaman

10-01-2007, 08:25 PM

This just in, Orishaman can tell you all the rules on how to be Puerto Rican, the RIGHT way:thumbsup

I have no need to prove you wrong Orisha. This is clearly about you ego. You are the authority on how to act Puerto Rican now right? I mean, you can tell I have gravitated away from it by my comments about being multi cultural.

Yes, there are studies. And the studies show that MOST gravitate towards one over the other. Does the study say EVERYONE does? No, in fact given certain circumstances it can change the decision and dynamic entirely. You assumed I was part of one group without klnowing my circumstances....all in your effort to prove yourself correct. What are my circumstances Orisha, oh mighty psychic and authority on how to act Puerto Rican?

The topic is simple. You started an argument you cannot win. You said I didn't like Puerto Ricans when in fact I am 1/2 PR making you look stupid. Now you are trying to spin this as best as possible to come out on top. I think I covered everything.

The fact that you are half PR not is not a given to necesarly like that part of your heritage...and finally you admit that yes people will gravitate toward one or the other, and yes, that's all people...even you ahve gravitate toawrd one or the other, that I didn't know your were half PR, you stand correct, but the fact that it came as a refutal to my comment, rather than an upfront comment from you, clearly shows that you ahve gravitate toward your other half, not the PR half...maybe you will admited ..or maybe you won't ...I imagine will be later....

And for the rules...there's no rules...but culturally I know you are closer to your other half thatn your PR side...that much is clear...

kg0208

10-01-2007, 08:26 PM

Once again you failed to understand Soci-cultural issues....being PR is still brings to the table a parallel racial discrimination...and if you don;t understand this fact is becuase you have been insulated from this issue...Americans ...specially in New England and the east coast are still prejudicial to PR's as they are with African Americans..again you might not be aware of it, so I will spare my reason why, but you have been isulated from this prejudicial treatment, I haven't and I am a lite skin PR compared to my brothers and sis....in fact as I mentioned in many topics in here...Growing up in PR I never experinece any racial tension until I arrive in the USA in Atlanta Ga. many years ago....

Where does my Location say Orisha? Nice try with the regional thing...I grew up in Florida. Learn to read before speaking.

No I understand. I just don't agree with you. No, Americans were never as prejudiced against PR as they were against Blacks. There is NO comparison. I grew up in the south...And Atlanta is more than 50% black, so you're experience is different than mine. This has no bearing however, since I am half PR and Black, not PR and White. If what you say is true, they would be against me regardless...so I have no reason to choose either culture over the other.

Bottom line. You are making assumptions. You have no details of my circumstances so you can't apply any studies to me. Learn psychology then try again.

kg0208

10-01-2007, 08:29 PM

The fact that you are half PR not is not a given to necesarly like that part of your heritage...and finally you admit that yes people will gravitate toward one or the other, and yes, that's all people...even you ahve gravitate toawrd one or the other, that I didn't know your were half PR, you stand correct, but the fact that it came as a refutal to my comment, rather than an upfront comment from you, clearly shows that you ahve gravitate toward your other half, not the PR half...maybe you will admited ..or maybe you won't ...I imagine will be later....

And for the rules...there's no rules...but culturally I know you are closer to your other half thatn your PR side...that much is clear...
:lol::lol::lol::lol: Look at you. You use the study to prove your point, but when I point out that it says that some won't gravitate towards it, you say that part of the study is wrong. Selective aren't we?

Let me ask you a simple question Orisha, oh psychic one. Under what circumstances on a boxing message board would I make the upfront comment that I am half black, half puerto rican? Why would that EVER be something I said unless I am asked?

Don't sidestep my last question either oh teller of how to be PR. You said you could tell by my comments which I had gravitated towards. Which comments?

Orishaman

10-01-2007, 08:35 PM

Where does my Location say Orisha? Nice try with the regional thing...I grew up in Florida. Learn to read before speaking.

No I understand. I just don't agree with you. No, Americans were never as prejudiced against PR as they were against Blacks. There is NO comparison. I grew up in the south...And Atlanta is more than 50% black, so you're experience is different than mine. This has no bearing however, since I am half PR and Black, not PR and White. If what you say is true, they would be against me regardless...so I have no reason to choose either culture over the other.

Bottom line. You are making assumptions. You have no details of my circumstances so you can't apply any studies to me. Learn psychology then try again.

Please, don't said that...Florida is a state that is use to diversity, and ever since the first migration of Cuban to Fla in the late 50's Florida has beena safe heaven for spanish speaking inmigrants.....NYC on the other hand..when the first migrations of PR in the late 30's early 40's the PRs that came experince far more prejudicial slurs that African Americans at that time...the racial slurs...like: What's a PuertoRican...a ****** turn inside out" ...op the derogatory term like Spiks....if you never experince any of that uglyness .well good for you...but in other parts of the country PR's were not as lucky as growing up in Florida in the 70's...not sir is not the same..and taht you made a comment like that...obvioulsy you ahve not seat down with you parental half resposable for the PR half and talk history.....of your heritage ..where you came from ....how others experience the transition, how they were treated in a foregain country, when they could not speak the language...and came seeking a better life....

I am sure you will once again try to ridicule me regarding this issue, but if you never experince it...I simply suggest you admitted and move on, rather than generilized your insulated middle calls world with all PR's...

KhanB

10-01-2007, 08:36 PM

Orishaman

10-01-2007, 08:38 PM

:lol::lol::lol::lol: Look at you. You use the study to prove your point, but when I point out that it says that some won't gravitate towards it, you say that part of the study is wrong. Selective aren't we?

Let me ask you a simple question Orisha, oh psychic one. Under what circumstances on a boxing message board would I make the upfront comment that I am half black, half puerto rican? Why would that EVER be something I said unless I am asked?

Don't sidestep my last question either oh teller of how to be PR. You said you could tell by my comments which I had gravitated towards. Which comments?

ESB cover many topics and racial topics are no exceptions, so me, for instance, I clearly show my color on my avatar and my description, I am proud of waht I am....sure...tjhe situation that you can explain that your are half PR or half African American or Half Anglo are limited but I am sure that you ahve had your chances to stayed you heritage...hell I seen post on the Forum asking exactly that...

Orishaman

10-01-2007, 08:39 PM

kg0208

10-01-2007, 08:40 PM

Please, don't said that...Florida is a state that is use to diversity, and ever since the first migration of Cuban to Fla in the late 50's Florida has beena safe heaven for spanish speaking inmigrants.....NYC on the other hand..when the first migrations of PR in the late 30's early 40's the PRs that came experince far more prejudicial slurs that African Americans at that time...the racial slurs...like: What's a PuertoRican...a ****** turn inside out" ...op the derogatory term like Spiks....if you never experince any of that uglyness .well good for you...but in other parts of the country PR's were not as lucky as growing up in Florida in the 70's...not sir is not the same..and taht you made a comment like that...obvioulsy you ahve not seat down with you parental half resposable for the PR half and talk history.....of your heritage ..where you came from ....how others experience the transition, how they were treated in a foregain country, when they could not speak the language...and came seeking a better life....

I am sure you will once again try to ridicule me regarding this issue, but if you never experince it...I simply suggest you admitted and move on, rather than generilized your insulated middle calls world with all PR's...

I think you have insulted yourself. And you are very ignorant to Jacksonville FL, which still has race problems. And you are extremely, ridiculously ignorant to the issue facing Blacks in the early 20th century. They called PR's names? Did they attack them with dogs, hang them in front of their kids, tar and feather them? Please....really. Shut up.

Fact of the matter is, you are actually more ignorant than I thought. And lastly, that little trick where you ridicule me then try and take the high road saying I will ridicule you....it doesn't work when you ridicule me in the process.

Bottom line. You made an assumption. You were wrong. Move on.

kg0208

10-01-2007, 08:43 PM

ESB cover many topics and racial topics are no exceptions, so me, for instance, I clearly show my color on my avatar and my description, I am proud of waht I am....sure...tjhe situation that you can explain that your are half PR or half African American or Half Anglo are limited but I am sure that you ahve had your chances to stayed you heritage...hell I seen post on the Forum asking exactly that...

Yes, and in that post, I said I was half black, half PR. And that is still a reply, not something admitted upfront.

Have I in my avatar ever displayed something that showed I was black? Nope.....nor have I shown I was PR. It isn't relevant.

You failed to answer my question. Under what circumstances would I volunteer such info? Still waiting.

kg0208

10-01-2007, 08:45 PM

Ive already seen one Pavlik related thread closed bcuz it got too racial. All i can add is Orisha has one point. Pavlik is the real deal but not the greatest MW ever as some KIDS posted. Now that ive cooled down a bit, i dont think the Pavfans are being racially biased per se, but theyre probably under 20 and only seen Hopkins fight twice or watched a past prime Hagler fight Leonard and dont know any better.

Agreed. Things do get too racial. Of course, no poster should be telling you that he knows you don't care for a certain race when you are half that race, and then to cover his ass try to play it off as though you don't accept that part of yourself.

rydersonthestorm

10-01-2007, 08:47 PM

Some people are just wanker's, we have to deal with them in all walks of life.

KhanB

10-01-2007, 08:51 PM

Agreed. Things do get too racial. Of course, no poster should be telling you that he knows you don't care for a certain race when you are half that race, and then to cover his ass try to play it off as though you don't accept that part of yourself.

I just im tired of debating about Pavlik when I think some 16 yr old started this shit about Pavlik beating everybody from Hopkins to Jones. Theres nothing wrong with like fighters of your race but cmon. The both of you sound more intelligent then the kids ive been arguing with the past few days. Im not going to say more on who has it worse, Ricans or Blacks bcuz some Ricans look black to me and Ricans have a light complexion and are able to assimilate better into anglo saxon culture. Too touchy a subject to me to say more.

kg0208

10-01-2007, 08:53 PM

I just im tired of debating about Pavlik when I think some 16 yr old started this shit about Pavlik beating everybody from Hopkins to Jones. Theres nothing wrong with like fighters of your race but cmon. The both of you sound more intelligent then the kids ive been arguing with the past few days. Im not going to say more on who has it worse, Ricans or Blacks bcuz some Ricans look black to me and Ricans have a light complexion and are able to assimilate better into anglo saxon culture. Too touchy a subject to me to say more.

Understood. But we are not talking about now....we are talking about the 20's, 30's and early on. During segregation and before the Civil rights movement. Only Native Americans had it worse in this country IMO. PR, Italians, immigrants of any kind had it bad. But the KKK wasn't formed to attack them.

KhanB

10-01-2007, 09:00 PM

Understood. But we are not talking about now....we are talking about the 20's, 30's and early on. During segregation and before the Civil rights movement. Only Native Americans had it worse in this country IMO. PR, Italians, immigrants of any kind had it bad. But the KKK wasn't formed to attack them.

Quick question for you guys. Im gonna watch MNF downstairs but tell me quick. Do Ricans like Trinidad own up to the African American part of their ethnicity? He looks darker than me! Just curious. I'll comeback later to follow up.

kg0208

10-01-2007, 09:05 PM

Quick question for you guys. Im gonna watch MNF downstairs but tell me quick. Do Ricans like Trinidad own up to the African American part of their ethnicity? He looks darker than me! Just curious. I'll comeback later to follow up.

I didn't know he was half black.

Here's the thing. I didn't know I was half PR until I was 15 (26 now). I didn't meet my real father until I was 25 (he is full PR and in the military). So he is showing me all he can about PR culture. I don't gravitate towards either, but towards both. I just grew up in one out of ignorance of knowing my background since no one told me (was told the exact opposite infact).

So there are lots of things I don't know yet. Never heard Trindad mention it, so I am not sure if he is.

KhanB

10-01-2007, 09:15 PM

Orishaman

10-01-2007, 09:19 PM

I think you have insulted yourself. And you are very ignorant to Jacksonville FL, which still has race problems. And you are extremely, ridiculously ignorant to the issue facing Blacks in the early 20th century. They called PR's names? Did they attack them with dogs, hang them in front of their kids, tar and feather them? Please....really. Shut up.

Fact of the matter is, you are actually more ignorant than I thought. And lastly, that little trick where you ridicule me then try and take the high road saying I will ridicule you....it doesn't work when you ridicule me in the process.

Bottom line. You made an assumption. You were wrong. Move on.

I amazed by your comments claiming my ignorance while you claim to know what all PR have gone in other areas other than Jacksonville, I been in Jacksonville many time, have performed there a numeorus times, clinics/workshop in the University, I been there I know that town...my line of work takes me to many ..many ..cities with a wide variaty of ethnics groups and I am telling you son, Jacksonville is not NYC nor Chicago nor LA...so please stop with the ignorant insults since they reflect back on yourself...where have you been other than Jacksonville...did your Mom or Dad ever seat down with you and talk to you about our reality as second class citizen for the better past of the 20's century...it took us PR's a lon gtime, long time to get accepted in the NY metropolis, and I tell you what..I came to this country in the deep south, Atlanta Ga as I mentioned, the prejudice was not there until I speak and they detected my heavy accent, that was not fun....I experinced it first hand, it was not pass to me....

And I am surprized that your parents, the PR half has never tell you our early reality...maybe just maybe you should ask her, listen to what they ahve to say and then come back and insult me all you want...but the fact is that I know you won't be able to once you know and understand our history as inmigrants in the USA

Orishaman

10-01-2007, 09:25 PM

I didn't know he was half black.

Here's the thing. I didn't know I was half PR until I was 15 (26 now). I didn't meet my real father until I was 25 (he is full PR and in the military). So he is showing me all he can about PR culture. I don't gravitate towards either, but towards both. I just grew up in one out of ignorance of knowing my background since no one told me (was told the exact opposite infact).

So there are lots of things I don't know yet. Never heard Trindad mention it, so I am not sure if he is.

If someone would ever ask you , what makes a Puerto Rican...simple:

African, Taino and Spaniard in that order...we PR's absolutely embraced our African heritage, we live our ancestry, and as a muscian and Ethno-musicology, I will tell you that our ancestry and with Africa in implanted deep on roots...we live it everyday, we eat, we speak it...African heritage flows thru our veins and the heart pump that African heritage with every pump....

If you have issues with your father, don;t take it on me, I am simply trying to tell you the Puertorrican reality, not trying to be eman , but simply telling that we have suffered as much as African American in many ways...that's one of the reasons that us PR have such a strong affinity with Afro-Americans more than any other ethnic group even other latinos...

kg0208

10-01-2007, 09:26 PM

I amazed by your comments claiming my ignorance while you claim to know what all PR have gone in other areas other than Jacksonville, I been in Jacksonville many time, have performed there a numeorus times, clinics/workshop in the University, I been there I know that town...my line of work takes me to many ..many ..cities with a wide variaty of ethnics groups and I am telling you son, Jacksonville is not NYC nor Chicago nor LA...so please stop with the ignorant insults since they reflect back on yourself...where have you been other than Jacksonville...did your Mom or Dad ever seat down with you and talk to you about our reality as second class citizen for the better past of the 20's century...it took us PR's a lon gtime, long time to get accepted in the NY metropolis, and I tell you what..I came to this country in the deep south, Atlanta Ga as I mentioned, the prejudice was not there until I speak and they detected my heavy accent, that was not fun....I experinced it first hand, it was not pass to me....

And I am surprized that your parents, the PR half has never tell you our early reality...maybe just maybe you should ask her, listen to what they ahve to say and then come back and insult me all you want...but the fact is that I know you won't be able to once you know and understand our history as inmigrants in the USA

I never said you weren't second class citizens. You cannot compare what immigrants went through in the US to what Blacks and Native Americans did. I claim you are ignorant to THEIR struggle, otherwise you wouldn't compare.

Racial Slurs? Please....a racial slur was what blacks got when they were being NICE to them.

I haven't insulted you any more than you have insulted me. You said I didn't like PR, then you try and tell me I am not Puerto Rican enough.

Visiting Jacksonville is not the same as living here. Don't try and compare. You are extremely ignorant in that you keep making assumptions. You went through racism first hand....you keep assuming I haven't. You have made nothing but assumptions about me, and you won't own up to them.

kg0208

10-01-2007, 09:30 PM

If someone would ever ask you , what makes a Puerto Rican...simple:

African, Taino and Spaniard in that order...we PR's absolutely embraced our African heritage, we live our ancestry, and as a muscian and Ethno-musicology, I will tell you that our ancestry and with Africa in implanted deep on roots...we live it everyday, we eat, we speak it...African heritage flows thru our veins and the heart pump that African heritage with every pump....

If you have issues with your father, don;t take it on me, I am simply trying to tell you the Puertorrican reality, not trying to be eman , but simply telling that we have suffered as much as African American in many ways...that's one of the reasons that us PR have such a strong affinity with Afro-Americans more than any other ethnic group even other latinos...
Who said I had issues with my dad? No one said that. Yet you bring it up as though it has bearing on what you said. I took issue with you telling me I didn't like Puerto Ricans and then telling me which culture I was. Don't try and put words in my mouth.

Yes, all non whites suffered in the US in the early 20th century. Not on the level of blacks and Natives. Period. I know American history...yes, it was bad, but they weren't hanged, beaten, shot by the police or any of those things. It's not comparable. You keep talking about what I don't know....I am trying to educate you a little more on what happened here, since you clearly don't know, otherwise you wouldn't be comparing racial slurs to the things that happened to blacks in the 20's,30's, and 40's.

Orishaman

10-01-2007, 10:29 PM

Who said I had issues with my dad? No one said that. Yet you bring it up as though it has bearing on what you said. I took issue with you telling me I didn't like Puerto Ricans and then telling me which culture I was. Don't try and put words in my mouth.

Yes, all non whites suffered in the US in the early 20th century. Not on the level of blacks and Natives. Period. I know American history...yes, it was bad, but they weren't hanged, beaten, shot by the police or any of those things. It's not comparable. You keep talking about what I don't know....I am trying to educate you a little more on what happened here, since you clearly don't know, otherwise you wouldn't be comparing racial slurs to the things that happened to blacks in the 20's,30's, and 40's.

Let's just said this...your history is not up to par...I am a history buff...so..I am well versed on the history of this country...in particular with racial issues...and beleive me...PR's in NYC were treated short of linching....police brutality and antagonism towards PR's still exist in the east coast specially between Boston and NYC and all that coast realm between the cities...if you don;lt know it, just say it..becuase for other like that has experince it first hand..it is acutally disrespectful..

You ahve a lot to learn about your half heritage, and maybe if you decide to learn about,more and more...you will graviate toward it, since our history is not to different the African American saga...from the Spaniards to the North Amercians the discrimination contiued ...even up to this point....

Take a trip to NYC and spend sometime, and clear state your PR heritage and see how people react toward you....you might think you never left the deep south...and remember I lived in the deep south for 8 years..8 long years...my image othe USA when I cam to Atlanta was the incredible images that remain in my head from Birmingham, Selma, Little Rock....etc...

BTW, for your information, if you really want to know about the Civil Rights travel to Birmingham, and go to the Civil Rights Museum, it will humble you up...I ahd the privilage to play at the CRM in Birmingham...exciting experience!!

I am honestly trying to educate you regarding what constitute our heritage....I know you were not aware of that triumvirat of cultures...

kg0208

10-01-2007, 11:09 PM

Let's just said this...your history is not up to par...I am a history buff...so..I am well versed on the history of this country...in particular with racial issues...and beleive me...PR's in NYC were treated short of linching....police brutality and antagonism towards PR's still exist in the east coast specially between Boston and NYC and all that coast realm between the cities...if you don;lt know it, just say it..becuase for other like that has experince it first hand..it is acutally disrespectful..

You ahve a lot to learn about your half heritage, and maybe if you decide to learn about,more and more...you will graviate toward it, since our history is not to different the African American saga...from the Spaniards to the North Amercians the discrimination contiued ...even up to this point....

Take a trip to NYC and spend sometime, and clear state your PR heritage and see how people react toward you....you might think you never left the deep south...and remember I lived in the deep south for 8 years..8 long years...my image othe USA when I cam to Atlanta was the incredible images that remain in my head from Birmingham, Selma, Little Rock....etc...

BTW, for your information, if you really want to know about the Civil Rights travel to Birmingham, and go to the Civil Rights Museum, it will humble you up...I ahd the privilage to play at the CRM in Birmingham...exciting experience!!

I am honestly trying to educate you regarding what constitute our heritage....I know you were not aware of that triumvirat of cultures...
I am aware. You keep making these assumptions. That is your problem. I have been to Birmingham, I have been to Mississippi, NYC, where ever. My mom is from East Dublin, GA. If you know so much, you will get the reference. I don't need to be humbled on the violent history of the US.

.PR's in NYC were treated short of linching
You see that? Short of lynching. Blacks WERE lynched. That is my point. Many had it bad, but they were not equal across the board.

Either way, this was not the point at all now was it. You made a ton of assumptions about me. And you were incorrect. And you continue to do so. My history is quite up to par in America....my PR heritage is a work in progress. But that doesn't make me less of a PR.

Orishaman

10-02-2007, 05:33 PM

I am aware. You keep making these assumptions. That is your problem. I have been to Birmingham, I have been to Mississippi, NYC, where ever. My mom is from East Dublin, GA. If you know so much, you will get the reference. I don't need to be humbled on the violent history of the US.

You see that? Short of lynching. Blacks WERE lynched. That is my point. Many had it bad, but they were not equal across the board.

Either way, this was not the point at all now was it. You made a ton of assumptions about me. And you were incorrect. And you continue to do so. My history is quite up to par in America....my PR heritage is a work in progress. But that doesn't make me less of a PR.

Then you should have come out and said taht a long time ago....