View Full Version : Pavlik Proved My Point About J.c.c Jr
freddy-wak
10-01-2007, 06:01 PM
you dont have to be technically sound to be good...chavez and pavlik both throw basic punches, but they get the job done, with power, heart, and a good chin...i know pavlik is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of him, but i'm talking style wise, they are very similar, except for pavliks jab, chavez replaced it with a left hook...and imo, that can be more deadly......just ask cotto :good
4Rounder
10-01-2007, 06:18 PM
JCC Jr. is coming along fine, it will still be another year before he starts making an impact. This kid is going to fill up into a middleweight with a deadly left hook.
Is his next fight in December on PPV? I really want to see this fight. It looks like his opponent is a puncher and with a 20-1 record it may be a good step up fight.
Max Molyneux
10-01-2007, 06:26 PM
you dont have to be technically sound to be good
So did Gatti though.
maciek4
10-01-2007, 06:27 PM
Showing power against journeymans and knocking out the elite fighters are a whole different thing. Chavez Jr has been beating a bunch of tomato cans while PAvlik showed that his power is for real.
JCC Jr obviously hasnt proven himself with elite fighters yet but that doesnt mean that he cant hang with them. There are guys who are already dismissing him for no reason.
booradley
10-01-2007, 06:36 PM
I totally agree that flawed fighters can still be VERY effective. Think back to guys like Alexis Arguello, Danny Lopez, and others who were far from fleet footed wizards, but they still got the job done.
Boo
freddy-wak
10-01-2007, 07:21 PM
Showing power against journeymans and knocking out the elite fighters are a whole different thing. Chavez Jr has been beating a bunch of tomato cans while PAvlik showed that his power is for real.
the same exact things were said about pavlik...and look at him now
Bad_Intentions
10-01-2007, 07:23 PM
Showing power against journeymans and knocking out the elite fighters are a whole different thing. Chavez Jr has been beating a bunch of tomato cans while PAvlik showed that his power is for real.Real talk.
Brickhaus
10-01-2007, 07:33 PM
JCC Jr obviously hasnt proven himself with elite fighters yet but that doesnt mean that he cant hang with them. There are guys who are already dismissing him for no reason.
The reason is that he has tons of flaws and shows very little improvement from fight to fight. If he was improving, that would be one thing, but he just isn't.
bandeedo
10-01-2007, 07:36 PM
I totally agree that flawed fighters can still be VERY effective. Think back to guys like Alexis Arguello, Danny Lopez, and others who were far from fleet footed wizards, but they still got the job done.
Boo
arguello was one of the most technically superior boxers of all time. no wasted movement, great defence and threw every punch with textbook technique. surely you could have picked a better example for your point.
TitoCotto
10-01-2007, 07:42 PM
you dont have to be technically sound to be good...chavez and pavlik both throw basic punches, but they get the job done, with power, heart, and a good chin...i know pavlik is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of him, but i'm talking style wise, they are very similar, except for pavliks jab, chavez replaced it with a left hook...and imo, that can be more deadly......just ask cotto :good
1) Did JCC Jr just get mentioned in the same paragraph as Kelly Pavlik and Miguel Cotto?
2) Why are Cotto and Pavlik always being labeled with not being technically sound?
Pavlik was actually throwing better combinations than Taylor throughout most of the fight (Of course not in round 2) and beat him many times with a VERY technically sound jab. He throws very SMOOTH combinations. Like Cotto, they both have the ability to throw loose, relaxed combinations with POWER (Like jcc SR). Taylor said he got tired from throwing too many punches, that's bacause he noticeably tightens up when he throws. These attributes are all due to skill level and being TECHNICALLY SOUND.
freddy-wak
10-01-2007, 08:02 PM
1) Did JCC Jr just get mentioned in the same paragraph as Kelly Pavlik and Miguel Cotto?
2) Why are Cotto and Pavlik always being labeled with not being technically sound?
Pavlik was actually throwing better combinations than Taylor throughout most of the fight (Of course not in round 2) and beat him many times with a VERY technically sound jab. He throws very SMOOTH combinations. Like Cotto, they both have the ability to throw loose, relaxed combinations with POWER (Like jcc SR). Taylor said he got tired from throwing too many punches, that's bacause he noticeably tightens up when he throws. These attributes are all due to skill level and being TECHNICALLY SOUND.
you fuckers know what i mean....it's like, nowadays..if you dont have floyd or mosley type speed or movement, then your basically thrown out of the bag as a possible contender...
cotto is another guy of mine that i have fought hard for to try to get people to understand alot of my points.....
I think if a boxer has good physical skills, technical ability is somewhat unnessecary. You mentioned Pavlik and Cotto, but on an even higher level, look at George Foreman. His skills were fucking awful. If you were to teach a young lad about boxing and you only had a tape of Foreman, you'd stick it in and say "Do the opposite of what this guy does".
He threw wide punches, he had poor movement, he had little defence, he was a one trick pony, but he was also a top class fighter.
He had a fantastic chin and unreal power, amongst other things.
It's easy to look at some boxers and point out their faults and say they won't make it because of those faults, and in many cases it's true. However, some fighters like Foreman, Pavlik and Cotto don't need to be technically great. Maybe JCC Jr. is another of those.
Relentless
10-01-2007, 08:21 PM
1) Did JCC Jr just get mentioned in the same paragraph as Kelly Pavlik and Miguel Cotto?
2) Why are Cotto and Pavlik always being labeled with not being technically sound?
Pavlik was actually throwing better combinations than Taylor throughout most of the fight (Of course not in round 2) and beat him many times with a VERY technically sound jab. He throws very SMOOTH combinations. Like Cotto, they both have the ability to throw loose, relaxed combinations with POWER (Like jcc SR). Taylor said he got tired from throwing too many punches, that's bacause he noticeably tightens up when he throws. These attributes are all due to skill level and being TECHNICALLY SOUND.
since when did they become so great that we cant compare a fighter to them?
chavez jr is a joke...period
THE KID IS FIGHTING WITH HIS FATHERS NAME PERIOD..
This is boxing nobody is going to wait for you to get skills when you are in the ring.
Fighting midgets, late 30's tomatoe cans and chumps that your dad faced past his prime some 10 years ago, you can do that in a bar in TJ.:freddy
Fighting chumps like that would make alot of nobodies look good.
He close to 30 fights now, what is he waiting for to reach 100 before he fights a real oppentent?
Fighting guys like that only proves that he hiding aqlot of fawless
I don't think he would last a day on the contender:-(
I would respect him a litte if faced sombody descent then you could finally gauge him.:-((
Relentless
10-01-2007, 08:50 PM
i hope you know he is still 20 years old.
KhanB
10-01-2007, 08:55 PM
JCC jr has had everything given to him bcuz of his name so far. Pavlik earned what he got thru hard work and beating Miranda and Taylor. Junior aint gonna clear out any division like Pavlik has. Doesnt Jr fight in the WW division? He'll have to fight somebody legit someday.
Relentless
10-01-2007, 09:00 PM
JCC jr has had everything given to him bcuz of his name so far. Pavlik earned what he got thru hard work and beating Miranda and Taylor. Junior aint gonna clear out any division like Pavlik has. Doesnt Jr fight in the WW division? He'll have to fight somebody legit someday.
he fights in jr middleweight,
he is only 20 years old, and no boxer ever gets anything given to them, every boxer that ever made it big had to work for it.
KhanB
10-01-2007, 09:03 PM
he fights in jr middleweight,
he is only 20 years old, and no boxer ever gets anything given to them, every boxer that ever made it big had to work for it.
Yeah right, tell that to Ali's daughter. Chavez Jr wouldnt of got the chances he did if it wasnt for his father. I'll bet most of his fans were fans of his father. He got a built in fan base.
cross_trainer
10-01-2007, 09:04 PM
you dont have to be technically sound to be good...chavez and pavlik both throw basic punches, but they get the job done, with power, heart, and a good chin...i know pavlik is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of him, but i'm talking style wise, they are very similar, except for pavliks jab, chavez replaced it with a left hook...and imo, that can be more deadly......just ask cotto :good
Agreed. I'll also add that you can even get away with awful, bizarre technique if you can practice it enough (Hamed).
Relentless
10-01-2007, 09:08 PM
Yeah right, tell that to Ali's daughter. Chavez Jr wouldnt of got the chances he did if it wasnt for his father. I'll bet most of his fans were fans of his father. He got a built in fan base.
are you saying its easy to fight?
KhanB
10-01-2007, 09:13 PM
are you saying its easy to fight?
Are you even reading today? Just bcuz i say Chavez Jr and Laila Ali are known bcuz of their name and get television dates they wouldnt of got otherwise doesnt mean that fighting is easy. I dont know where you getting that from what ive typed. Just the fact the Chavez jr is getting brought up proves that he gets coverage for his name. When Chavez jr fights a Miranda like opponent in Jr WW division and kicks his ass i'll retract my statement.
How old was Tyson when won the HW title? 21..
Barrera was pro at 16.
Savlador Sanchez was 21 when he won a belt.
Oscar was 21 when won a belt.
" Good" fighters are fighting 12 round fights around 20 fights in and should have been tested or put up against good comp.
30 fights in you be facing championship caliber or at least the upper elite of your division.
Orlando Chico Canizales and Alex Alrgulle was 19 when they turned pro.
PAVLIK AND jr are not the same type of fighter.
PAVLIK HAS PROVEN WHAT HIS IS... A CHAMPION...jr has proven what he isn't.:fart
If he does I would be shock if isn't exposed by then.:bokc
But I don't know if can wait for him to fight somebody by his 100th fight. :tired
he fights in jr middleweight,
he is only 20 years old, and no boxer ever gets anything given to them, every boxer that ever made it big had to work for it.
True...:good but he fights 37 year old tomatoe can jr.lightweights:!:
but jr is special......special treatment.:p
booradley
10-02-2007, 02:26 AM
arguello was one of the most technically superior boxers of all time. no wasted movement, great defence and threw every punch with textbook technique. surely you could have picked a better example for your point.
His foot work was not that great, and his defence was in fact leaky, not terrible, but Mancinni out boxed him for 12 rounds before AA put the hurt on him, and Andy Gannigan knocked him right on his arse. Arguello's greatness was in his effective offense, his calm demeanor under fire, and especially those brutal combinations, and his freakish lazer guided jab that set everthing else up. Actually I think he is a great example because in some areas he was incredible, and in some areas he had, shall we say, issues. By the way; AA is one of my all time favorites.
Boo
4Rounder
10-02-2007, 02:50 AM
How old was Tyson when won the HW title? 21..
Barrera was pro at 16.
Savlador Sanchez was 21 when he won a belt.
Oscar was 21 when won a belt.
" Good" fighters are fighting 12 round fights around 20 fights in and should have been tested or put up against good comp.
30 fights in you be facing championship caliber or at least the upper elite of your division.
Orlando Chico Canizales and Alex Alrgulle was 19 when they turned pro.
PAVLIK AND jr are not the same type of fighter.
PAVLIK HAS PROVEN WHAT HIS IS... A CHAMPION...jr has proven what he isn't.:fart
If he does I would be shock if isn't exposed by then.:bokc
But I don't know if can wait for him to fight somebody by his 100th fight. :tired
Did you know that Chavez Jr. has ZERO amateur experience, all he has is his 34 pro fights to get by. All we can do is see him grow into a better fighter, not expect him to fight for a title by his next fight.
All the fighters you mentioned had the amateur experience to fall back on. Specialy DLH who had over 200 amateur fights.
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