James Toney is a top 10 middleweight

[brownpimp88]

At middleweight the man beat Nunn, Mccallum and reggie johnson. I think this is enough to give a place among the greatest middleweight of all times. Your thoughts?

[brooklyn1550]

I wouldn't put him in my top 10...but there is a case to be made for top 15 and top 20.

[brownpimp88]

I wouldn't put him in my top 10...but there is a case to be made for top 15 and top 20.
Name ur top 10 and i can make a case to put someone out and place toney in it. The fact is that he beat Nunn, a fighter that is better than any middleweight that hagler or monzon ever beat.

[Luigi1985]

For me he isn´t a Top 10- MW, I have him only in my Top 25. I mean, on the paper his record looks pretty good, but I´ve seen his fights against Sosa, Johnson, Tiberi, McCallum, etc. and his opponents were robbed there, against Nunn he was also beaten pretty bad until the 11th round, so head-to-head we can´t give him that many chances against the likes of Monzon, Hagler, etc, btw, he´s one of the fighters without his many robbery-wins he would have at least 8 defeats more...

[Senya13]

Sosa was robbed against Toney?!?

[My dinner with Conteh]

Name ur top 10 and i can make a case to put someone out and place toney in it. The fact is that he beat Nunn, a fighter that is better than any middleweight that hagler or monzon ever beat.


So what? Leon Spinks beat a better fighter than either Louis or Tyson ever beat, etc etc. :huh

[My dinner with Conteh]

At middleweight the man beat Nunn, Mccallum and reggie johnson. I think this is enough to give a place among the greatest middleweight of all times. Your thoughts?


James 'split decison' Toney doesn't belong in the top 10. If he did, he'd at least convince the 'other' judge that kept voting against him in big fights that he belonged there.

[Luigi1985]

James 'split decison' Toney doesn't belong in the top 10. If he did, he'd at least convince the 'other' judge that kept voting against him in big fights that he belonged there.




:clap:


I like "Lights out", he´s/ was cool to watch, but seriously, how many fighters were robbed against him?

[My dinner with Conteh]

:clap:


I like "Lights out", he´s/ was cool to watch, but seriously, how many fighters were robbed against him?


A few were. Maybe not as many as you make out but the fact remains that he struggled in a fair few of his middlweight title fights, hence the disparity in the judges' cards. I suppose Toney was always a difficult fighter to score in a way.

[Luigi1985]

A few were. Maybe not as many as you make out but the fact remains that he struggled in a fair few of his middlweight title fights, hence the disparity in the judges' cards. I suppose Toney was always a difficult fighter to score in a way.

With 8 I meant everywhere, not only at MW, and that´s not too much IMO...

[robpalmer135]

dont forget Eubank, Benn and Watson, would off all squashed Toney in the early 90s

[rydersonthestorm]

I'm not sure if eubnak,benn and watson would have squashed toney in the early 90's.

[McGrain]

He's a great, great fighter. If someone has him top ten, that's not a problem for me, though he doesn't make mine. H2H he'd be a nightmare for absolutely anyone.

[Raggamuffin]

James 'split decison' Toney doesn't belong in the top 10. If he did, he'd at least convince the 'other' judge that kept voting against him in big fights that he belonged there.

As a dutchie i love your avatar
Thumbs up :thumbsup

[Manassa]

Name ur top 10 and i can make a case to put someone out and place toney in it. The fact is that he beat Nunn, a fighter that is better than any middleweight that hagler or monzon ever beat.

Bollocks! Valdez and Hearns were better, Griffith may have been on the same level.

[My dinner with Conteh]

As a dutchie i love your avatar
Thumbs up :thumbsup


I'm a big big fan of Dutch football throughout the ages and a bit of a boffin on the subject (my dad worked there for years and it became our holiday destination, mostly). I think Willem "I don't like Germans" might just be my favourite. Lovely playing style, great left foot and a total mad cunt. The kind of guy that would usually ask his dog about whether he should leave Feyernoord or not. :D

[Nemesis]

H2H he'd be a nightmare for absolutely anyone.

really? I tend to disagree

He'd get outboxed by the boxers, and smothered by the pressure fighters, look what Dave Tiberi did to him

[My dinner with Conteh]

Remember the World Championship ´74? :D


Home advantage is big in influencing refereeing decisions. Remember 1966? ;)

[Boro chris]

dont forget Eubank, Benn and Watson, would off all squashed Toney in the early 90s

Hmmm....They're all pick 'em fights imo. I have these guys around the same level.

[Senya13]

Harry Greb
Mickey Walker
Imo all of these guys had a better career at mw than him.
How exactly are these two better than Toney at middleweight?

[brownpimp88]

The tiberi fight was a roberry, but i had him winning against sosa, johnson and mccallum. They may have been close fights, but no way in hell were they roberries. I can also claim that he actually beat peters and griffith. He definetly had a better career than ketchel, ketchel has one of the most padded records ever, just full of nobodies and an old jack o brien, and i dont belive that fight was even at middleweight.

[Senya13]

Of course it's useless to discuss it with me, because neither of these two fighters have enough significant wins at 160lb limit to be better than Toney.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Oh, i have no problem with ´66. I mean, poor England will have to live with this one title for ever. :D
Additionally, i don´t think there was any controversy in the final in ´74.



The German penalty that turned the game. Jack Taylor later said he shouldn't have given it.

[Jack]

Bernard Hopkins

Over who of these guys would you put Toney? Imo all of these guys had a better career at mw than him.
There's a couple of others I'd sisagree with (Cerdan for example), but especially Hopkins. He doesn't have a better resume than Toney at all. I give him credit for dominating the division for so long, but who did he beat? Very few top class fighters.

[TBooze]

Toney is/was a drug taking cheat, it would IMO be unfair to rate him against clean fighters, I would list following above him at 160lbs though:

24 Michael Nunn
23 Jack 'Twin' Sullivan
22 Mike O'Dowd
21 Jake LaMotta
20 Freddie Steele
19 Marcel Thil
18 Gorilla Jones
17 Sammy Langford
16 Emile Griffith
15 Joey Giardello
14 Kid McCoy
13 Nino Benvenuti
12 Tony Zale
11 Marcel Cerdan
10 Roy Jones
9 Jack Dempsey
8 Harry Greb
7 Marvin Hagler
6 Bernard Hopkins
5 Mickey Walker
4 Charley Burley
3 Stanley Ketchel
2 Ray Robinson
1 Carlos Monzon

[Senya13]

If you say so ...
Look up their record at 160lb limit yourself, it's very far from impressive. Most significant achievements of both were either below middleweight limit (at welterweight for Walker) or above it (at light heavyweight).

[rydersonthestorm]

I like hopkins but his record of wins is pretty poor in comparsion to most of the top all time middleweights, beating undersized odlh and trinidad was good but they are not legit middleweights. People like joppy,vanderpool and eastman etc are hardly top middleweights and where nothing more than contender's. I would have hop[kins alot further down the list than sixth, especially conisedring at that weight roy jones beat him easily.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Well, may be but at the time there was no controversy about the penalty - and i like to see things in the context of their times.


There probably wasn't- in Germany. :good

[My dinner with Conteh]

Ha ha, nice one. Terrible decision though...



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...can't believe that Haan backs off so much- and Jansen should have fouled Holzenbein outside the area (although he didn't foul him anyway). :good

[My dinner with Conteh]

Dutch? I'm English squire. :good

[rydersonthestorm]

so we both agree hagler and hopkins should be further down the list :)

[My dinner with Conteh]

Even worse.


At least I'm not a Kraut. I can be thankful for that. :good

[rydersonthestorm]

liverpool, man utd>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> german club teams

[Asterion]

Possibly Top20. Definitely not Top10.

[rydersonthestorm]

Neither do i, however i don't rate there competition as that great and i would have them in the top 10 not the top 5.

[brownpimp88]

Why is marcel cerdan being ranked so high, hes got one of the most padded records fo all time, his resume is a laughing joke.