View Full Version : Arthur Abraham Vs Kelly Pavlik
Kamil
10-01-2007, 11:45 PM
Who WiNs?
i say Arthur Abraham
BoppaZoo
10-01-2007, 11:49 PM
Anyone who can use is boxing smarts and is not willing to stand toe to toe with Pavlik will beat him.
Abraham i feel is gifted enough to beat Pavlik but he has to to beat him with his head.
I would lean to Abraham by UD if fought in the Germany
But if in the USA i would lean more to a late TKO by Pavlik.
But Pavlik is very beatable. He has more flaws than any other RING champ i feel.
Who WiNs?
i say Arthur Abraham
Why? If you post this, give your reasoning please.
Anyone who can use is boxing smarts and is not willing to stand toe to toe with Pavlik will beat him.
Abraham i feel is gifted enough to beat Pavlik but he has to to beat him with his head.
I would lean to Abraham by UD if fought in the Germany
But if in the USA i would lean more to a late TKO by Pavlik.
But Pavlik is very beatable. He has more flaws than any other RING champ i feel.
True, but AA was getting tagged by Miranda. That turtle shell defense won't work well against a ferocious puncher like Pavlik, because he will hurt you even punching through your guard. If AA can move and work off that jab and throw combinations maybe. I want to watch some more footage of both gusy before I make a prediction.
BoppaZoo
10-01-2007, 11:57 PM
True, but AA was getting tagged by Miranda. That turtle shell defense won't work well against a ferocious puncher like Pavlik, because he will hurt you even punching through your guard. If AA can move and work off that jab and throw combinations maybe. I want to watch some more footage of both gusy before I make a prediction.yeah i here but Abraham has power also and probably more than Taylor and look what Taylor did.
Its more a question of how bad does Abraham want Pavlik. Cause Taylor hasnt looked the same since the last fight with Hopkins. And he hurt Pavlik bad and just couldnt finish him but AA has enough to finish him i feel.
I mean Abraham beat Miranda with a broken jaw. he is tough really tough.
Watch more of AA and get back to me.
beatdown
10-01-2007, 11:57 PM
Pavlik would eventually catch up to him
brooklyn1550
10-02-2007, 12:00 AM
Kelly Pavlik TKO10 Arthur Abraham
I like Pavlik in this fight. Pavlik would use his jab and his height advantage to keep a distance between himself and Abraham - even while coming forward. Abraham voluntarily backs up to the ropes in his high-guard defense, but that is exactly where Pavlik wants him to be. He would throw big combinations and would split the guard especially with the uppercut. He would work the body when Abraham is in the corner or on the ropes as well. Abraham is very explosive, but fights in spurts. Pavlik would need to be careful not to get too concerned with offense because Abraham could crack him and hurt him badly. And he is a much better finisher than Taylor. But I think Kelly has the heart and the chin to take a couple shots here and there from Arthur. When Arthur goes into his periods of inactivity, I see Pavlik pressing on, outworking him, and breaking through the defense. I would give Pavlik the edge in stamina. I have noticed that when Arthur throws a combination, sometimes he will drop his hands afterwards and back up. This leaves a tremendous opportunity for the long, powerful Pavlik right hand. After taking some massive shots, I see Pavlik putting Abraham away late.
Overall, this is a very dangerous fight for both champions. Both could be stopped, but Pavlik, at least in my opinion, is the better boxer, the smarter fighter, and if he comes in with a good gameplan, he should win the fight.
DanePugilist
10-02-2007, 12:03 AM
If a man can fight with broken jaw for most of the fight against a puncher - he will not go down against Pavlik - gonna be a tough fight, but I think that AA will edge it out.
Both are smart boxers, so I think the one that can alter/adjust his game plan the most - would take this. I think that Pavlik will fight subpar, because i think he will be unable to focus proberly(ie look past AA).
brooklyn1550
10-02-2007, 12:05 AM
I think that Pavlik will fight subpar, because i think he will be unable to focus proberly(ie look past AA).
I'm not sure about that - I think both Kelly and Arthur focus on the opponents they are fighting. I never got the feeling that either of them look past an opponent, especially not in a dangerous fight for both of them like this.
Ring Master
10-02-2007, 12:24 AM
Kingsley lkeke is 6'4 and AA handled him well. AA may have the style and power to hurt Pavlik.
Jaaames
10-02-2007, 12:40 AM
Even though Pavlik has never lost, he's been down now 3 times... McKart, Zuniga and now Taylor.. Pavlik is a guy that will wear you out and as it ges to the later rounds, punish you. Abraham has a good chin, good power, plays good defense, and is tough.. I think if Abraham is looking for any shot at knocking him out, he would have to do it early. I think that this could turn out to be a great fight.
Abrahams cover up d= pavlik throwing a lot of punches, both have the power to hurt each other, abraham was able to stand up to miranda's power but pavlik was able to dismantle him.... 2 more unbeaten middleweights... i want to see this..now
tays001
10-02-2007, 12:41 AM
Anyone who can use is boxing smarts and is not willing to stand toe to toe with Pavlik will beat him.
Abraham i feel is gifted enough to beat Pavlik but he has to to beat him with his head.
I would lean to Abraham by UD if fought in the Germany
But if in the USA i would lean more to a late TKO by Pavlik.
But Pavlik is very beatable. He has more flaws than any other RING champ i feel.
he got flaws but aint no one beat him yet i think it would be a good match ... ? is can AA jaw hold up :D
Circa
10-02-2007, 12:49 AM
with those great performances by pavlik... i think im rooting for him to win against arthur.
Tom_Tocca
10-02-2007, 11:33 AM
How do you like this comparison:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Lampley
10-02-2007, 11:37 AM
Kelly Pavlik TKO10 Arthur Abraham
I like Pavlik in this fight. Pavlik would use his jab and his height advantage to keep a distance between himself and Abraham - even while coming forward. Abraham voluntarily backs up to the ropes in his high-guard defense, but that is exactly where Pavlik wants him to be. He would throw big combinations and would split the guard especially with the uppercut. He would work the body when Abraham is in the corner or on the ropes as well. Abraham is very explosive, but fights in spurts. Pavlik would need to be careful not to get too concerned with offense because Abraham could crack him and hurt him badly. And he is a much better finisher than Taylor. But I think Kelly has the heart and the chin to take a couple shots here and there from Arthur. When Arthur goes into his periods of inactivity, I see Pavlik pressing on, outworking him, and breaking through the defense. I would give Pavlik the edge in stamina. I have noticed that when Arthur throws a combination, sometimes he will drop his hands afterwards and back up. This leaves a tremendous opportunity for the long, powerful Pavlik right hand. After taking some massive shots, I see Pavlik putting Abraham away late.
Overall, this is a very dangerous fight for both champions. Both could be stopped, but Pavlik, at least in my opinion, is the better boxer, the smarter fighter, and if he comes in with a good gameplan, he should win the fight.
Good post. I agree, although I might edge toward a UD for Pavlik. Abraham certainly is durable.
Pavlik is fortunate in that the three biggest fighters that have been around him (Taylor, Miranda, Abraham) are all very good fits for his style. There isn't a mover/boxer among them, and the first time he encounters one of those, he's in trouble.
But I like Kelly a lot, and may he represent the title well.
JETSKI
10-02-2007, 12:44 PM
Even though Pavlik has never lost, he's been down now 3 times... McKart, Zuniga and now Taylor.. Pavlik is a guy that will wear you out and as it ges to the later rounds, punish you. Abraham has a good chin, good power, plays good defense, and is tough.. I think if Abraham is looking for any shot at knocking him out, he would have to do it early. I think that this could turn out to be a great fight.
Abrahams cover up d= pavlik throwing a lot of punches, both have the power to hurt each other, abraham was able to stand up to miranda's power but pavlik was able to dismantle him.... 2 more unbeaten middleweights... i want to see this..now
But that ugly dude has got to come to America to fight KP. If Kelly agrees to go to germany, I'll be one pissed off fightfan.
Relentless
10-02-2007, 12:45 PM
pavlik miguel cotto's abraham.
Tom_Tocca
10-02-2007, 12:57 PM
pavlik miguel cotto's abraham.
What do you mean?
Lampley
10-02-2007, 01:31 PM
Sturm is a very good mover/boxer and at his best i think he could decision Pavlik. He´s quite underrated right now but imo still a Top5 mw right now.
I agree. There are a handful of boxer-types who could seriously trouble Pavlik. I was just saying that the three big money fights are good in terms of style for Kelly, because Sturm has become a non-factor as a marketing entity.
Lampley
10-02-2007, 01:39 PM
Well, in Germany he´s still more popular and present in the media as Abraham, his fights have also more watchers than Abraham if i remember right. Tom Tocca i think knows more about that.
In the states i don´t know who´s a bigger money fight, both are quite unknown over there and the guys who know them do so only because of the Abraham-Miranda and Sturm-DLH fights.
You obviously would know better than me about what's happening in Germany. It just seems that Abraham/Pavlik would be the much bigger international fight for three reasons: 1) Abraham's gutcheck win over Miranda; 2) Abraham's more fan-friendly style; and 3) Abraham not getting KOd by Castillejo.
Sturm could jump back into the mix, but does he want to?
Tom_Tocca
10-02-2007, 01:41 PM
Well, in Germany he´s still more popular and present in the media as Abraham, his fights have also more watchers than Abraham if i remember right. Tom Tocca i think knows more about that.
In the states i don´t know who´s a bigger money fight, both are quite unknown over there and the guys who know them do so only because of the Abraham-Miranda and Sturm-DLH fights.
Sturm's stock incase of people wtaching him went down in his last fights - it sank around 4 million viewers while AA had an average of about 5 million viewers for his last fights which also aird later than Sturms...though Sturm is still making more money than AA...
marauder1999
10-02-2007, 01:49 PM
The punching power that pavlik posesses and the Breakable Jaw attached to Abrahams face would only mean one thing. Someone in the front row would be catching it after Pavlik hit it.
bumdujour
10-02-2007, 02:15 PM
Kelly Pavlik TKO10 Arthur Abraham
I like Pavlik in this fight. Pavlik would use his jab and his height advantage to keep a distance between himself and Abraham - even while coming forward. Abraham voluntarily backs up to the ropes in his high-guard defense, but that is exactly where Pavlik wants him to be. He would throw big combinations and would split the guard especially with the uppercut. He would work the body when Abraham is in the corner or on the ropes as well. Abraham is very explosive, but fights in spurts. Pavlik would need to be careful not to get too concerned with offense because Abraham could crack him and hurt him badly. And he is a much better finisher than Taylor. But I think Kelly has the heart and the chin to take a couple shots here and there from Arthur. When Arthur goes into his periods of inactivity, I see Pavlik pressing on, outworking him, and breaking through the defense. I would give Pavlik the edge in stamina. I have noticed that when Arthur throws a combination, sometimes he will drop his hands afterwards and back up. This leaves a tremendous opportunity for the long, powerful Pavlik right hand. After taking some massive shots, I see Pavlik putting Abraham away late.
Overall, this is a very dangerous fight for both champions. Both could be stopped, but Pavlik, at least in my opinion, is the better boxer, the smarter fighter, and if he comes in with a good gameplan, he should win the fight.
while i think that AA has the superior boxing ability, he does make a mistake that could lead him very very vunurable as you pointed out.
backing to the ropes and covering up. that could bite him in the ass if pavlik unloads.
but in the end, it´s pick´em. i can see both guys winning for good reasons.
scorpy
10-02-2007, 02:20 PM
Anyone who can use is boxing smarts and is not willing to stand toe to toe with Pavlik will beat him.
That's right... that's why Pavlik has so many loses on his record... it's so easy to beat him. :patsch
Get real mate.
BITCH ASS
10-02-2007, 02:23 PM
HA ha, Abraham is tough as fuck, but he lies against the ropes and is too inactive.
Pavlik beats the fuck out of him.
BITCH ASS
10-02-2007, 02:28 PM
This fight doesn't go nearly as long as you think either.
Abraham hits hard, but he's not a relentless fighter like Hagler, nor are his punches as straight as someone's like Taylor's or Pavlik.
He also isn't the fastest guy around.
What he does well is cover up against the ropes against stupid fighter like Miranda, that freak out and just throw their hands without thinking about where they would cause maximum damage.
Abraham won't fight like Taylor will either, exchanging with Pavlik, and beating Pavlik in exchanges with his speed.
This isn't Abraham's style, nor does he have the physical ability to do it.
How would Abraham beat Pavlik?
Answer, lucky punch.
scorpy
10-02-2007, 02:31 PM
If a man can fight with broken jaw for most of the fight against a puncher - he will not go down against Pavlik - gonna be a tough fight, but I think that AA will edge it out.
Look. I rate AA highly but you know as well as I do that Miranda didn't boxed smart . Put a broken jaw AA in the ring with KP and I garantee you that AA won't last the distance. KP is a much smarter fighter then Miranda.
Orang-Utan Jim
10-02-2007, 03:45 PM
I wanna see that fight. Both man got the tools to make this fight a brutal slugfest....
Go on HBO!
Plz not Hopkins*zzzzzzz*
man_on_the_spot
10-02-2007, 03:58 PM
I think AA has a very decent chance of winning, simply because I can not see Pavlik KOing him. On the other hand once KP fet an idea of AA's power (coupled with his rather average chin), he might be the one backing away from the exchanges.
I think this would either be AA by KO or PK by UD
On another note, if it wasn't for Castillejo'S lucky punch, I think we would talk about Felix Sturm beeing a favorite against KP with his speed and boxing skills.
Drofrah
10-02-2007, 04:18 PM
Pavlik would eventually start connecting and get a late tko. Abraham would stand the best chance if he could stick to a smart game, but the pressure would be too much
Abraham goes into his shell too much, but is dangerous when he explodes out of that shell...Pavlik would beat him up as long as he stayed cautious while attaking, because Abraham fights out of that shell with power...its Pavlik's fight to win or lose, he has the size and reach on AA with equal or more power...
Tom_Tocca
10-02-2007, 05:14 PM
Abraham goes into his shell too much, but is dangerous when he explodes out of that shell...Pavlik would beat him up as long as he stayed cautious while attaking, because Abraham fights out of that shell with power...its Pavlik's fight to win or lose, he has the size and reach on AA with equal or more power...
...or less power...
Pavlik by TKO/KO by the sixth round. Maybe sooner
Tom_Tocca
10-02-2007, 06:33 PM
pavlik has flaws yes, but he has the heart of a lion, and the great power plus a good chin. pavlik destroyed miranda. abraham got a gift win vs miranda, and miranda is gonna beat pavlik??????? :lol: :lol: :lol: come on get real!
styles make fights and to break a chin twice in boxing is like getting hammered by a lightning stroke twice in a lifetime...
curmudgeon
10-02-2007, 06:57 PM
Both could be stopped
Was AA ever knocked down?
brooklyn1550
10-02-2007, 07:02 PM
Was AA ever knocked down?
No, but Pavlik could stop him
curmudgeon
10-02-2007, 07:05 PM
No, but Pavlik could stop him
That's a conjecture.
On the other hand, Pavlik has been down, that is a fact.
I say it's a pick'm fight. I will watch.
brooklyn1550
10-02-2007, 07:09 PM
That's a conjecture.
True, but you have to give Pavlik a decent shot at stopping Abraham based on Abraham's tendency to voluntarily back into the ropes or corners and use a high guard while resting. Pavlik could stop him and probably out work him - but yes, it would be a dangerous fight as Abraham could stop Pavlik too.
TitoCotto
10-02-2007, 07:16 PM
I think AA has a very decent chance of winning, simply because I can not see Pavlik KOing him. On the other hand once KP fet an idea of AA's power (coupled with his rather average chin), he might be the one backing away from the exchanges.
I think this would either be AA by KO or PK by UD
Coupled with his rather average chin??? He got hit with 15 straight punches (most of them flush) by the middleweight Champion of the world, breaking his nose in the process... and he gets up and knocks the dude out. How's this for an average chin... Taylor got more exhausted from busting up Pavlik's face then Pavlik did getting hit on the button all those times... I call that a MONSTER chin but a questionable defense and a momentary lapse in focus on Pavlik's part.
Look how tough the Miranda fight was on Abraham... he barely got out of it. Pavlik DESTROYED Miranda. Abraham tries that weak turtle defense on the ropes (The only defense he knows) and he will suffer another combination just like Taylor. Miranda just couldn't figure it out because his skillz are way overrated.
This discussion is crazy to begin with. Abraham's ONLY chance is a haymaker, and if that happens I still think Pavlik would stay in the fight and beat him down.
brooklyn1550
10-02-2007, 07:19 PM
^
Agreed - I counted 16 punches that Taylor landed on Pavlik's face before putting him down.
JETSKI
10-02-2007, 07:28 PM
This fight is so far off in the future its not even funny. If Kelly fight Duddy around St. Patricks day in March of '08, 6 freakin' months from now, we won't see a unification bout until next summer!
:-(
I thought someone posted that KP wants to fight 4 times a year? Well, 3 times would be nice & thats average these days.
JETSKI
10-02-2007, 07:42 PM
Kelly Pavlik will knock this dude the fuck out!!
Honestly, KP deserves a nice, somewhat easy 1st title defense. He's had 3 tough fights in a row & now that he's Champ, thats the way things go.
After Duddy, then he can start to go after the other belts.
BoppaZoo
10-02-2007, 08:00 PM
That's right... that's why Pavlik has so many loses on his record... it's so easy to beat him. :patsch
Get real mate.So what your telling me because Pavlik hasnt lost he wont still lose. He has more flaws than any other Ring Champ. If you cant see that i guess you another Pavlik to TKO Hagler inside 10 rounds.
The fact remains Pavlik should have been stopped in round 2 if Taylor fought smartly and ended it. I think there are way to many people getting carried away with Pavlik and your another one.
Next you'll be telling me Pavlik would floor a Prime Jones or even better a Prime Hopkins.
Pavlik has alot of flaws and was lucky to win against Taylor if you ask me it wasnt like he dominated he had to come from behind and Taylor played into his hands. That will not happen with the next person that fights him.
curmudgeon
10-02-2007, 08:36 PM
True, but you have to give Pavlik a decent shot at stopping Abraham based on Abraham's tendency to voluntarily back into the ropes or corners and use a high guard while resting.
That's a definition of "conjecture": something that is likely to be proven, but has not been proven.
Yeah, Pavlik can certainly bust him up. But I would enjoy watching how Pavlik reacts when AA bursts out from his shell.
That recent KO by AA was a *beauty*.
MagnificentMatt
10-02-2007, 08:40 PM
I think Abraham would get a late round TKO...9-12.
brooklyn1550
10-02-2007, 08:49 PM
Yeah, Pavlik can certainly bust him up. But I would enjoy watching how Pavlik reacts when AA bursts out from his shell.
That recent KO by AA was a *beauty*.
Yeah, I gave my reasoning why I think Pavlik would stop Abraham. But you're right - AA is very explosive. He could catch Pavlik right out of the shell and if Pavlik didn't see it coming, he would be in some trouble.
As far as AA-Gevor - KO of the year in my opinion. Right there with Ding-Nwodo
scorpy
10-03-2007, 11:26 AM
So what your telling me because Pavlik hasnt lost he wont still lose. He has more flaws than any other Ring Champ. If you cant see that i guess you another Pavlik to TKO Hagler inside 10 rounds.
The fact remains Pavlik should have been stopped in round 2 if Taylor fought smartly and ended it. I think there are way to many people getting carried away with Pavlik and your another one.
Next you'll be telling me Pavlik would floor a Prime Jones or even better a Prime Hopkins.
Pavlik has alot of flaws and was lucky to win against Taylor if you ask me it wasnt like he dominated he had to come from behind and Taylor played into his hands. That will not happen with the next person that fights him.
First, no I do not think Pavlik would beat a prime Jones Jr or ktfo Hagler. IMHO, Hagler would beat Pavlik fairly easy.
Secondly, what I was doing was answering your ridiculous quote that "Anyone with boxing smarts would beat Pavlik."
So tell me Einstein, if the way to beat KP is so obvious and easy, why is he still undefeated ?
scorpy
10-03-2007, 11:28 AM
That's a definition of "conjecture": something that is likely to be proven, but has not been proven.
Yeah, Pavlik can certainly bust him up. But I would enjoy watching how Pavlik reacts when AA bursts out from his shell.
That recent KO by AA was a *beauty*.
Yep. But AA tagged Gevor with hard shots for 11 rounds before getting that KTFO. I'm not so sure AA could do the same with KP. But I sure would like to find out. :happy
Toney
10-03-2007, 02:43 PM
King Arthur would beat Palvik. He is too sharp. KO 2
boxeo#1
10-03-2007, 02:50 PM
Close fight IMO. Both could take it to a UD or win by KO.
But also: styles makes fights. I know that pavlik beat edison who f*cked AA up badly, but that doesn't (have to) mean sh*t.
I am rooting for Pavlik
Tom_Tocca
10-03-2007, 02:58 PM
Abraham gets his brains beaten in worse than he did against Miranda.
Miranda just connected flush to AA head 3 times after the jawbreaking punch...
Tom_Tocca
10-03-2007, 03:03 PM
...and who exactly has Abraham beat? Kelly Pavlik absolutly destroyed Miranda who destroyed Abraham. Until Abraham beats someone of worthy note, I don't see it.
You will be happy enough about the fact that Abraham will KTFO Mora in early 2008, who isn't that good but a media hype, that you would love to see Pavlik vs. Abraham...
Tom_Tocca
10-03-2007, 03:11 PM
...Fuck Sergio Mora, he's a fucking bum. I would rather see Abraham fight Pavlik. I just think Pavlik would win.
Bu you know as well as myself that first of all Abraham needs US media's attention before bringing enough to the table to have a fight vs. Pavlik - and HBO is thinking the same way...more attention - more money to gain, even PPV money...
Yep. But AA tagged Gevor with hard shots for 11 rounds before getting that KTFO. I'm not so sure AA could do the same with KP. But I sure would like to find out. :happy
Yep! He did! Gevor made the water very hot for his Armenian compatriot Abraham.Since then Abraham hasnt fought any really good opponent anymore!
But lets not forget that Gevor is a capable and skilled warrior who is no pushover for anyone at middle weight.
Gevor vs Miranda would be fun to watch,and so would be a third rematch between Konecny and Gevor.
MetroMan
05-01-2008, 11:30 AM
Good fight, Kelly Pavlik would take this in the end, I think.
Abraham has power, is very strong and showed a lot of guts to go on against Miranda, but was in dire trouble with a broken jaw, Miranda did him a favour in a strange way by stupidly butting him and Arthur was at home where you get the benefit of the doubt. How many points did Miranda lose for deductions, something like five? Very close fight otherwise. Miranda beat himself to a large degree that night by losing his head and getting too wound up.
Haven't Abraham and Miranda got a rematch coming up sometime?
fitzgeraldz
05-01-2008, 11:39 AM
Pavlik knocks this bum out ... Abraham has no skill ... he's not as fast as Pavlik, not as strong, not as long, and not as skilled.
Abraham can't box going backwards and can do shit in the middle of the ring ...
Pavlik will back him up or keep him in the middle and just punish him all day.
Pavlik hasn't shown his complete skill set and will overwhelm Abraham who only has a good chin to his credit.
Abraham is very sloppy, not technical at all, he wings shots, he's very dirty, and is a bum club fighter.
He's defending a vacant belt he won against bums ... while Pavlik beat the champion.
Pavlik is also too strong ...
fitzgeraldz
05-01-2008, 11:41 AM
Abraham is not going to pressue Kelly and if he turns it into a war of wills then Pavlik is going to KO him.
Pavlik's chin is stronger and he's able to block and slip punches coming towards him without putting on those earmuffs.
JETSKI
05-01-2008, 12:20 PM
Pavlik knocks this bum out ... Abraham has no skill ... he's not as fast as Pavlik, not as strong, not as long, and not as skilled.
Abraham can't box going backwards and can do shit in the middle of the ring ...
Pavlik will back him up or keep him in the middle and just punish him all day.
Pavlik hasn't shown his complete skill set and will overwhelm Abraham who only has a good chin to his credit.
Abraham is very sloppy, not technical at all, he wings shots, he's very dirty, and is a bum club fighter.
He's defending a vacant belt he won against bums ... while Pavlik beat the champion.
Pavlik is also too strong ...
Thats about the size of it.:good
But what if AA loses to Miranda? That fight will be at 160, right? I thought Miranda couldn't make 160 anymore?
I can see a rematch of KP & EM, but at 168 in the near future, should Miranda breaks AA's other jaw. :!:
cfizzl3
05-01-2008, 12:28 PM
Overall, this is a very dangerous fight for both champions. Both could be stopped, but Pavlik, at least in my opinion, is the better boxer, the smarter fighter, and if he comes in with a good gameplan, he should win the fight.
I wouldn't say he is the better boxer. I would say he has the better physical attributes to keep abraham at range via the jackhammer jab and tee off more.
I would say Abraham is the more schooled boxer, in the way he moves and uses combinations, his defense, etc. He isn't on par with Pavlik in terms of reach and power however.
Samurai
05-01-2008, 12:53 PM
The more I watch and study Abraham, the more of a threat I see him becoming to Pavlik.
Lampley
05-01-2008, 01:03 PM
The more I watch and study Abraham, the more of a threat I see him becoming to Pavlik.
Are you concerned about the amount of time during fights he remains dormant? I see Pavlik teeing off on him and forcing him to fight at an uncomfortable pace, which eventually would lead to a TKO.
I like Abraham but believe Pavlik is too much for him.
Kelly will lose when he fights someone whose movement enables that fighter to establish distance and pace. Pavlik, though I like him, is fortunate that no one populates 160 at the moment fitting that description.
Samurai
05-01-2008, 01:11 PM
Are you concerned about the amount of time during fights he remains dormant? I see Pavlik teeing off on him and forcing him to fight at an uncomfortable pace, which eventually would lead to a TKO.
I like Abraham but believe Pavlik is too much for him.
Kelly will lose when he fights someone whose movement enables that fighter to establish distance and pace. Pavlik, though I like him, is fortunate that no one populates 160 at the moment fitting that description.
Oh yeah
Abraham's workrate is so low but he is very powerful. I can see this fight going two ways. Abraham KO'ing Pavlik or Pavlik winning a decision. Abraham seems very durable and has a good chin, fights defensively a lot so unless Pavlik invests some work to the body early, I'm not too sure he'll stop him but rather out-work him.
Thats about the size of it.:good
But what if AA loses to Miranda? That fight will be at 160, right? I thought Miranda couldn't make 160 anymore?
I can see a rematch of KP & EM, but at 168 in the near future, should Miranda breaks AA's other jaw. :!:I think Abraham Miranda II is at 166. I sure hope they show their 1st fight in its entirety, I've only seen clips of it so far. HBO is correct about Abraham needing more US exposure. Has he ever had a US televised bout? Pavlik by KO!
booradley
05-01-2008, 01:12 PM
Kelly will lose when he fights someone whose movement enables that fighter to establish distance and pace. .
As much as I like Pavlik I tend to agree with you here Lampley. As soon as Kelly meets up with a slick and clever counter puncher who has some power, he'll probably lose his zero.
As far as Abraham goes I've laid out my analysis several times. Styles make fights as we like to say, and Abraham's low work rate, and his habit of going to the ropes or a corner to rest make him a sitting duck. Pavlik KO7 Abraham in a fight that will be far less entertaining than Pavlik/taylor I, and no more competetive than Pavlik/Miranda.
Kegsy
05-01-2008, 01:14 PM
Kelly Pavlik KO's Arthur Abraham in mid to late rounds.
JETSKI
05-01-2008, 02:48 PM
As much as I like Pavlik I tend to agree with you here Lampley. As soon as Kelly meets up with a slick and clever counter puncher who has some power, he'll probably lose his zero.
As far as Abraham goes I've laid out my analysis several times. Styles make fights as we like to say, and Abraham's low work rate, and his habit of going to the ropes or a corner to rest make him a sitting duck. Pavlik KO7 Abraham in a fight that will be far less entertaining than Pavlik/taylor I, and no more competetive than Pavlik/Miranda.
That guy doesn't exist...
In clips I've seen of AA vs Miranda, Edison was much bigger than AA, so KP will tower over this guy. He'll be lucky to lay a glove on Kelly.
Lampley
05-01-2008, 02:51 PM
That guy doesn't exist...
In clips I've seen of AA vs Miranda, Edison was much bigger than AA, so KP will tower over this guy. He'll be lucky to lay a glove on Kelly.
At 160, I agree.
I also believe that, though he doesn't fit that style, Mikkel Kessler would beat Pavlik up at 168. He's a better defender and much more diverse, accurate puncher.
And at 175, Pavlik wouldn't be all that great. He'd be even more ponderous and probably would lose power going up 15 pounds.
Samurai
05-01-2008, 02:53 PM
That guy doesn't exist...
In clips I've seen of AA vs Miranda, Edison was much bigger than AA, so KP will tower over this guy. He'll be lucky to lay a glove on Kelly.
Zertuche is the same height is Arthur at 5'10", he didn't seem to have too much trouble landing.
JETSKI
05-01-2008, 03:26 PM
At 160, I agree.
I also believe that, though he doesn't fit that style, Mikkel Kessler would beat Pavlik up at 168. He's a better defender and much more diverse, accurate puncher.
And at 175, Pavlik wouldn't be all that great. He'd be even more ponderous and probably would lose power going up 15 pounds.
One thing in your statement bothers me. Saying that Kessler is more "diverse"...If anything, he's as "one-dimensional", if not more so than Kelly. A good 1-2 & thats about it.
And I don't agree when people say that KP is one-dimensional.
Are you concerned about the amount of time during fights he remains dormant? I see Pavlik teeing off on him and forcing him to fight at an uncomfortable pace, which eventually would lead to a TKO.
I like Abraham but believe Pavlik is too much for him.
Kelly will lose when he fights someone whose movement enables that fighter to establish distance and pace. Pavlik, though I like him, is fortunate that no one populates 160 at the moment fitting that description.
Apart from Taylor and Miranda Pavlik hasnt faced a single recognisable name in his pro career so far. Pavlik may have Taylor's number,and Miranda is quite overrated in the first place anyway.
Abraham has the better fight record with the bigger and better known skalps(apart from Taylor of course).
I would like to watch Pavlik take on someone like Felix Sturm,Mariano Carrera,or Khoren Gevor in order to assess him correctly.
All in all, Pavlik's style seems to be tailor made for Abraham who isnt that much fond on fast runners or cautious counterboxer. Unlike Pavlik Abraham has never been hurt or knocked down in a pro fight.Abraham can take a good punch.Pavlik will have to take quite a few good shots from Abraham in order to land some good shots.I am still not really sure whether Pavlik can cope with Abraham's firepower or not.
I very much hope that their fight really comes off! Will be a hell of a fight!
May the better man win!
mikeyc
05-02-2008, 02:16 PM
Apart from Taylor and Miranda Pavlik hasnt faced a single recognisable name in his pro career so far. Pavlik may have Taylor's number,and Miranda is quite overrated in the first place anyway.
Abraham has the better fight record with the bigger and better known skalps(apart from Taylor of course).
I would like to watch Pavlik take on someone like Felix Sturm,Mariano Carrera,or Khoren Gevor in order to assess him correctly.
All in all, Pavlik's style seems to be tailor made for Abraham who isnt that much fond on fast runners or cautious counterboxer. Unlike Pavlik Abraham has never been hurt or knocked down in a pro fight.Abraham can take a good punch.Pavlik will have to take quite a few good shots from Abraham in order to land some good shots.I am still not really sure whether Pavlik can cope with Abraham's firepower or not.
I very much hope that their fight really comes off! Will be a hell of a fight!
May the better man win!
Well first off when we talk about chins, can we even call AA's his own??? That's interesting the Ring Magazine Universally recognized Middleweight Champ having to fight Felix Sturm to earn his keep?? What drugs do you do and how do we get some? Kelly beats JT 2x, Miranda by KO (who brutalized AA) and don't sleep on Zuniga who will fight Pascal @ 168 this summer. The matchup would be a classic and take place most likely in Vegas Spring of 09. Kelly would wear AA out KO 9! Kelly has to take care of his business at hand. Lockett will bring everything he has, but KP will be in as good of shape as he ever has, that I promise you!
Hermit
05-02-2008, 03:55 PM
Unlike Pavlik Abraham has never been hurt
Broken jaws don't hurt?
Abraham KO
I've always had a feeling about this one, even though my heads telling me Abraham will stand there doing his peek-a-boo thing while Pavlik tees off on his guard and completely outworks him
Boro chris
05-02-2008, 04:10 PM
One thing in your statement bothers me. Saying that Kessler is more "diverse"...If anything, he's as "one-dimensional", if not more so than Kelly. A good 1-2 & thats about it.
And I don't agree when people say that KP is one-dimensional.
Pavlik has very nice offensive skills.
They both apear to be fairly straightforward fighters. Kessler strikes me as quicker, more accurate with better defensive skills however.
As for Pavlik-AA.....Whilst Abraham has a decent punchers chance throughout the fight (he scores one punch ko's in the late rounds as well as the early) I'd back Pavlik to set too fast a pace for him and overwelm him late or just outwork him for a clear ud.
BigReg
05-02-2008, 04:10 PM
Pavlik would beat the hell out of Abraham. Abraham isn't all that skilled and almost lost to Miranda; the same Miranda that Pavlik destroyed.
Lampley
05-02-2008, 06:47 PM
One thing in your statement bothers me. Saying that Kessler is more "diverse"...If anything, he's as "one-dimensional", if not more so than Kelly. A good 1-2 & thats about it.
And I don't agree when people say that KP is one-dimensional.
I do believe Kessler is more diverse for two reasons: 1) He can fight at more than one distance, unlike Pavlik; and 2) Kessler's uppercut is a better complement to his right hand than anything Pavlik has in his arsenal.
Pavlik looked very one-dimensional to me when getting outfought in trading situations against Taylor.
But Kelly certainly does have a workrate, which is why he gassed Taylor so effectively on two occasions, and also why I think he'd wear down Abraham, whose tendency -- like Jermain's -- is to fight in spots.
Max Molyneux
05-02-2008, 06:59 PM
Who WiNs?
i say Arthur Abraham
Yeah, Abraham has the better chin although It will be a slugfest since both are pretty limited.
booradley
05-02-2008, 07:51 PM
Apart from Taylor and Miranda Pavlik hasnt faced a single recognisable name in his pro career so far. Pavlik may have Taylor's number,and Miranda is quite overrated in the first place anyway.
Abraham has the better fight record with the bigger and better known skalps(apart from Taylor of course).
I would like to watch Pavlik take on someone like Felix Sturm,Mariano Carrera,or Khoren Gevor in order to assess him correctly.
All in all, Pavlik's style seems to be tailor made for Abraham who isnt that much fond on fast runners or cautious counterboxer. Unlike Pavlik Abraham has never been hurt or knocked down in a pro fight.Abraham can take a good punch.Pavlik will have to take quite a few good shots from Abraham in order to land some good shots.I am still not really sure whether Pavlik can cope with Abraham's firepower or not.
I very much hope that their fight really comes off! Will be a hell of a fight!
May the better man win!
Recognizable names? If you don't recognize the names Zuniga, Zertuche, and McKart, maybe you should start following boxing.:patsch
Abraham has never been hurt:patsch Have you even seen the Miranda fight?
Mariano Carrera:nut This cat lost his lost fight against a guy who wouldn't make 4 rounds with Pavlik, and speaking of losses, this clowns last 6 opponents had 40 LOSSES!!! go back to the lounge:hi:
McManama
05-02-2008, 08:14 PM
yeah i here but Abraham has power also and probably more than Taylor and look what Taylor did.
Its more a question of how bad does Abraham want Pavlik. Cause Taylor hasnt looked the same since the last fight with Hopkins. And he hurt Pavlik bad and just couldnt finish him but AA has enough to finish him i feel.
I mean Abraham beat Miranda with a broken jaw. he is tough really tough.
Watch more of AA and get back to me.
You never look at the content -- First off AA did not beat Miranda.. watch that fight again. Second off Taylor looked better than ever in his two fights against Pavlik, and he is a legit world class fighter, plus he hits like a truck a nailed Pavlik early on with a full power overhand right directly behind the ear ( anyone who actually is a boxer would know what that does).... anyone in the world would lose their legs from a shot like that. He preceded to take about 17 more shots and was still able to recover. Pavlik can handle anything AA throws at him. Pavlik is bigger, throws more punches, has a better jab, fights smarter... I would say AA only has a punchers chance.
Pavlik UD , maybe medical stopage.
curmudgeon
05-02-2008, 08:37 PM
Broken jaws don't hurt?
Apparently not enough. He kept fighting for 7 more rounds, taking hits from a big puncher.
Toopretty
05-02-2008, 08:41 PM
Pavlik jabs this clown up and lays the right hand through his pathetic guard and puts this lazy fighter out of commission.
Thunderlips
05-02-2008, 10:27 PM
1-2 Kelly's coming for you.
Broken jaws don't hurt?
It does,hermit,it does!
Nevertheless, Abraham has never gone down by a punch. He has never found himself lying in the ring dust since he turned pro.Nobody has ever scored something like a flash knockdown against him.
Toopretty
05-03-2008, 10:25 AM
It does,hermit,it does!
Nevertheless, Abraham has never gone down by a punch. He has never found himself lying in the ring dust since he turned pro.Nobody has ever scored something like a flash knockdown against him.
Neither did JT or Miranda..whats your point.. Pavlik is another monster then anything that burger king has ever faced.
Recognizable names? If you don't recognize the names Zuniga, Zertuche, and McKart, maybe you should start following boxing.:patsch
Abraham has never been hurt:patsch Have you even seen the Miranda fight?
Mariano Carrera:nut This cat lost his lost fight against a guy who wouldn't make 4 rounds with Pavlik, and speaking of losses, this clowns last 6 opponents had 40 LOSSES!!! go back to the lounge:hi:
Give me a break,mate!
Zertuche? A clubfigher who had lost to other clubfighters and journeymen before he met Pavlik.
Zuniga? His record is padded with no-hopers.He even had to go the full route with a shot fighter like Echols.
Santos gave him a lesson in boxing when they met each other in the ring.
He also had two close fights with that aforementioned clufighter Zertuche.
McKart? You are joking ,arent you. McKart was as far over the hill as you can be after a long pro career.
In one of his last fights Pavlik even fought a guy with a record of 9-8.
Pavlik deserves respect for his two great victories over Talyor. Thats for sure! He impressively defeated Miranda.
However,apart from these two fighters he hasnt met any really big name in his pro career.
Who knows? He may have Taylor's number.
Miranda? If Abraham hadnt broken his jaw twice he would have stopped that crude fighter from Columbia,too.
And yes, I did watch Miranda vs Abraham. I also watched Carrera's second encounter with Castillejo. I know what I am speaking about unlike you.
Carrera is a classy fighter who beat Castillejo in his first encounter with the old vet from Spain,but was caught by one of Castilello's powerful punches.
Nevertheless,Carrera would be a test for Pavlik and show whether he is really able to cope with fringe contenders like Carrera or not.
Pavlik has beaten a lot of bums,very limited club fighters like Zertuche and Zuniga,a crude and totally overrated fighter like Miranda,and twice Talyor.
I for my part would like to know whether Pavlik is the real deal and not just the fighter who has Taylor's number.
As for Abraham he has proved again and again that he can beat any opponent out there. Among his victims are fighters like Koren Ghevor, Kofi Jantuah,Kingsley Ikeke,Howard Eastman,and Hector Velazco. He beat Miranda with a totally shattered chin and almost knocked him out in round 9 of their legendary fight.Abraham has a proven track record and shown that he can beat good fighters with different styles.
Of course Pavlik's scalp Taylor plays in a different league.However,Pavlik hasnt proved yet that he can beat fighters like Gevor or Jantuah who have quite different styles.After all Pavlik may have Taylor 's number,and could be totally out of his shoes and at his wit's end against Abraham or even against a fighter like Carrera or Gevor.
Toopretty
05-03-2008, 10:56 AM
Odo. You are a fucking crackhead. Talking about AA would of knocked Miranda out if Miranda did not crush his fucking jaw with an uppercut. AA was getting his ass whooped anyway and got BEAT that night. Gevor was a fucking bum he beat and old as dog shit Eastmen who Miranda later knocked the fuck out. He aint shit but BELOW pavlik. He is underneath his ass in every aspect. Legendary fight...lol you mean legendary fucking robbery.
Odo. You are a fucking crackhead. Talking about AA would of knocked Miranda out if Miranda did not crush his fucking jaw with an uppercut. AA was getting his ass whooped anyway and got BEAT that night. Gevor was a fucking bum he beat and old as dog shit Eastmen who Miranda later knocked the fuck out. He aint shit but BELOW pavlik. He is underneath his ass in every aspect. Legendary fight...lol you mean legendary fucking robbery.
Your post speaks for yourself,mate! :roll:
fucking jaw-his ass whooped-Gevor a fucking bum-dog shit Eastman-he is underneath his ass in every aspect-legendary fucking robbery.
:D Your great knowledge of boxing has really impressed me a lot,you clown!
Do you truly think that I care a fig for senseless blabla from guys who act tough sitting behind a keyboard and trying to tell me their view of points calling me a crackhead because I dont agree with their childish and simple opinion on certain boxers?
:lol:I had a good laugh while reading your ludicrious post. Thanks,mate,for making me laugh!
Toopretty
05-03-2008, 11:24 AM
Your post speaks for yourself,mate! :roll:
fucking jaw-his ass whooped-Gevor a fucking bum-dog shit Eastman-he is underneath his ass in every aspect-legendary fucking robbery.
:D Your great knowledge of boxing has really impressed me a lot,you clown!
Do you truly think that I care a fig for senseless blabla from guys who act tough sitting behind a keyboard and trying to tell me their view of points calling me a crackhead because I dont agree with their childish and simple opinion on certain boxers?
:lol:I had a good laugh while reading your ludicrious post. Thanks,mate,for making me laugh!
Like I said. Gevor aint shit. Jontuah was an average sturdy fighter who does NOTHING special. These are guys he was supposed to beat. Not in any way shape or form top notch you fucking retard. Pavlik beats his ass. Period. No discussion.
Samurai
05-03-2008, 12:10 PM
Odo is ALWAYS biased towards German fighters. The fact that he believes Abraham has beaten better comp only confirms this.
Hermit
05-03-2008, 01:37 PM
Odo is ALWAYS biased towards German fighters.
Well, I'm biased towards my home town lad, so I can't fault him there. ;) I try and be as objective as possible though, but it is a little hard to know sometimes. Even people with no dog in the fight disagree widely.
cuchulain
05-03-2008, 01:56 PM
Don't know.
But I'd sure like to see it.
booradley
05-03-2008, 06:38 PM
Give me a break,mate!
Zertuche? A clubfigher who had lost to other clubfighters and journeymen before he met Pavlik.
Zuniga? His record is padded with no-hopers.He even had to go the full route with a shot fighter like Echols.
Santos gave him a lesson in boxing when they met each other in the ring.
He also had two close fights with that aforementioned clufighter Zertuche.
McKart? You are joking ,arent you. McKart was as far over the hill as you can be after a long pro career.
In one of his last fights Pavlik even fought a guy with a record of 9-8.
Pavlik deserves respect for his two great victories over Talyor. Thats for sure! He impressively defeated Miranda.
However,apart from these two fighters he hasnt met any really big name in his pro career.
Who knows? He may have Taylor's number.
Miranda? If Abraham hadnt broken his jaw twice he would have stopped that crude fighter from Columbia,too.
And yes, I did watch Miranda vs Abraham. I also watched Carrera's second encounter with Castillejo. I know what I am speaking about unlike you.
Carrera is a classy fighter who beat Castillejo in his first encounter with the old vet from Spain,but was caught by one of Castilello's powerful punches.
Nevertheless,Carrera would be a test for Pavlik and show whether he is really able to cope with fringe contenders like Carrera or not.
Pavlik has beaten a lot of bums,very limited club fighters like Zertuche and Zuniga,a crude and totally overrated fighter like Miranda,and twice Talyor.
I for my part would like to know whether Pavlik is the real deal and not just the fighter who has Taylor's number.
As for Abraham he has proved again and again that he can beat any opponent out there. Among his victims are fighters like Koren Ghevor, Kofi Jantuah,Kingsley Ikeke,Howard Eastman,and Hector Velazco. He beat Miranda with a totally shattered chin and almost knocked him out in round 9 of their legendary fight.Abraham has a proven track record and shown that he can beat good fighters with different styles.
Of course Pavlik's scalp Taylor plays in a different league.However,Pavlik hasnt proved yet that he can beat fighters like Gevor or Jantuah who have quite different styles.After all Pavlik may have Taylor 's number,and could be totally out of his shoes and at his wit's end against Abraham or even against a fighter like Carrera or Gevor.
Okay -- now we know you are a retard, and I mean that quite literally. It is intended as a statement of fact, not just an insult. "Zuniga is a limited club fighter.":patsch Zuniga is one of the many guys at 160-168 that would hand Arthur his ass on a boxing glove. That's why Artuthur ducked him, and fought Elvyn Ayala. The Arbraham hype train would get derailed just like the Oganov hype train did, but I doubt if it would take 9 rounds. Like I said; go back to the lounge, AND STAY THERE!
Okay -- now we know you are a retard, and I mean that quite literally. It is intended as a statement of fact, not just an insult. "Zuniga is a limited club fighter.":patsch Zuniga is one of the many guys at 160-168 that would hand Arthur his ass on a boxing glove. That's why Artuthur ducked him, and fought Elvyn Ayala. The Arbraham hype train would get derailed just like the Oganov hype train did, but I doubt if it would take 9 rounds. Like I said; go back to the lounge, AND STAY THERE!
:hey I dont post in the lounge,mate!
:lol:Zuniga would hand Artur his ass on a boxing glove,eh! Abraham ducked him,eh! Abraham plays in Oganov's league,eh!
I am the retard,eh! :D
drvooh
05-03-2008, 09:57 PM
Anyone who can use is boxing smarts and is not willing to stand toe to toe with Pavlik will beat him.
Abraham i feel is gifted enough to beat Pavlik but he has to to beat him with his head.
I would lean to Abraham by UD if fought in the Germany
But if in the USA i would lean more to a late TKO by Pavlik.
But Pavlik is very beatable. He has more flaws than any other RING champ i feel. Anyone has flaws. But he still aint lost ( yet ):hi:
Ethan Trims
05-03-2008, 10:19 PM
:hey I dont post in the lounge,mate!
:lol:Zuniga would hand Artur his ass on a boxing glove,eh! Abraham ducked him,eh! Abraham plays in Oganov's league,eh!
I am the retard,eh! :D
:think
Arent you the guy who said in a past thread that "take away the JT wins off of Pavliks resume and Abrahams resume drawfs his" or something like that?
If so you should post strictly in the European forum where your views will be accepted, out here they smell like your mothers hairy asshole. Good day to you sir.
vBulletin® v3.8.0, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.