Is Jermain Taylor the next Jeff Lacy -- 'shot' after his first loss?

[paulfv]

Some guys respond very well to a loss, and come back more focused and more intent on getting back to the top.

I think of Foreman, who told himself he would never be knocked out again after being KO'd by Ali. And he never was, despite taking some huge shots in later fights with Lyle, Holyfield and others.

I am somewhat concerned for Taylor, because his level of arrogance (things like believing he didn't need to listen to trainer Manny Steward's advice, etc) seemed extremely high, and he now goes from a fighter who had never been knocked down or out to a guy who was destroyed. As he said very honestly after the fight, "I can't believe I lost."

IMO, Taylor has lived on "Easy Street" for some time. Between his diet of favorable judging, HBO hyping and easy matchups (older guys, undersized guys), he seems to have lost his drive. Even for the best-schooled of fighters this can be a prescription for failure (see Mike Tyson), but for a guy who is more athlete than fighter like Taylor, it could be a fatal career move now that he is facing more substantial competition.

So I ask you: Is Jermain Taylor the next Jeff Lacy post-Calzaghe? The next David Reid post-Trinidad? The next Meldrick Taylor post-Chavez? Can and will he recover from this devastating loss or is this the beginning of the end of Taylor as a legit title contender/beltholder?

I'm not sure, personally. I think it could go either way. I never thought Taylor was particularly great before this fight, so even if he comes back strong mentally, he still just might not measure-up skills-wise against tougher competition like he faced this past Saturday night. I will definitely say this -- I do not think Taylor will ever beat Kelly Pavlik, no matter how much he improves or how much he improves his strategy. I guess there is a chance if HBO judges are scoring the fight, but that is the only way he could ever 'defeat' Kelly Pavlik in my mind.

[MancMexican]

I think he will come back strong. He showed more fire in that fight than in his last efforts. Everyone can improve on their skill sets and tactics but no one can teach heart and desire. I think Taylor had that back at the start of the fight. He clearly wanted to knock Pavlick out but didnt know how to finish him properly. Now he's lost he'll realise what he needs to do to be a better fighter and will do them rather than coasting along as a champion. Of course, having said that, he may think 'i've made my money so fuck it.'

[ThePlugInBabies]

to be fair to lacy, we don't know if the guy is done yet, he suffered an awful injury and is still hopefully on the comeback trail. i for one would love to see him back in the ring, great power and an exciting fighter, can still mix it with the 168 pounders.

[hahahax]

Taylor wants to move up to 168, right?

I'll answer your question with one of my own: Would you pick Taylor over Lacy after what you saw the other night? Do you think Taylor can outbox Calzaghe or Kessler? What if RJJ beats Trinidad, would Taylor have a chance against him?

Taylor does not have great speed, does not have great power a 160, does not have a great chin at 160, does not have a great skillset... how is he supposed to even win a fight at 168 when he'll most likely have ZERO advange over anyone there.

[achillesthegreat]

Lacy isn't shot. He came back, started winning and looking like he did pre Calzaghe but then got injured and still made it VERY close with one arm!

Now Lacy has gone through two physically demanding fights. He has undergone silly injuries to his nose, jaw, eyes, shoulder etc He has had a long layoff etc so we'll have to see if he can comeback.

Taylor isn't shot either.

These guys could mentally be ruined though.

[lefthook31]

Taylor already fought two top notch guys, and hes certainly not as one dimensional as Lacy. Lacy lost to the first real fighter he stepped up to fight.

[Jose FM]

Hell be back, but Pavlik comfirmed what all of us knew already (well those of us who werent in denial) that Taylor is better when hes fighting featherfisted fighters, and has no defense.

[KayEpps]

JT should make a strong comeback. This lost to instill the hunger back in him - to show that he really has something to prove.

And Jeff Lacy isn't a washed up fighter - the kid lost one fight - then had a bad shoulder injury. Give him a chance to come back and see what he offers.

[Jorodz]

i agree that taylor is more athelete than fighter. i think that was a huge key in this fight. jermain could have gone to the olympics for any number of events but he just doesn't have the drive and passion for boxing. he doesn't seem to have any instinct on how to hurt or finish an opponent...when it happens it's almost by accident. some sports you can cost on pure ability and pick up paycheques....boxing is not one of them. look at the difference in mentality and attitude between taylor and roberto duran. THAT was a fighter

[brooklyn1550]

I don't think he's shot, but I don't know if he will ever be the same mentally. We'll have to wait and see.

[LogDog69]

If I had to make a decision now, I would say that he'll come back and do well. When Lacy lost he lost a one-sided ass beating where he lost every second of every round. Jermain put Pavlik down in the 2nd and was winning the fight (I actually had it scored about even). There were times when JT actually made Pavlik look amateurish so that combined with knowing that he can hurt Pavlik (see 2nd round) I think JT should believe that he has the ablility to defeat Pavlik. Of course if you look at Chavez/Taylor, that was a fight that Meldrick was winning before he got knocked out and he was never the same fighter again and that fight can't be compared to Lacy/Calzaghe because Lacy was far from winning so just because JT was ahead of Pavlik on points at the time he got knocked out doesn't mean he can pick up right where he left off. Hell I don't know?? :think

[AllyT]

Taylor is not likely to be shot. He got a bit of a pasting in round 7 but it was a bout that I feel could have gone either way. Assuming he has the heart to continue he should recover from this. Lacy on the other hand was made to endure a lot of unnecessary punishment and his corner may have shortened his career by not pulling him out. Being injured may be a blessing as it gives him some rest.

[PH|LLA]

lacy wasnt shot after his first loss he tore his rotator cuff in his next fight.

[Curtis Lowe]

I don't think Taylor will ever be the same, I just don't see him recovering from this. That said, I still like him more than Lacey, whom was extremely over hyped. Lacy never was, if I recall correctly, in any close tough fights other than the JC fight where he got his ass handed to him. Taylor on the other hand had the Hopkins fights and the Wright fight, were he showed some toughness. Still with the beating he took, lack of punching power and lack of aggressiveness, I don't see a real bright future for him.

If he fights Pavlik in a immediate rematch, that will be the end of his career.

[jonesjrp4p1]

no

[marting]

I don't think Taylor is shot. He damn near won that fight and it's not like he took an embarrassingly one-sided shellacking like Lacy did. If Terry O'connor had been reffing last saturday's fight he might have waved Pavlik off and we'd all be singing a different tune.

Taylor we'll make some more noise but he needs to learn better footwork if he's to ever face another puncher on par with Pavlik. He fought competitve fights with the likes of Winky and Hopkins. Lacy's one venture into the A class got him exposed.

[English Nutter]

Some guys respond very well to a loss, and come back more focused and more intent on getting back to the top.

I think of Foreman, who told himself he would never be knocked out again after being KO'd by Ali. And he never was, despite taking some huge shots in later fights with Lyle, Holyfield and others.

I am somewhat concerned for Taylor, because his level of arrogance (things like believing he didn't need to listen to trainer Manny Steward's advice, etc) seemed extremely high, and he now goes from a fighter who had never been knocked down or out to a guy who was destroyed. As he said very honestly after the fight, "I can't believe I lost."

IMO, Taylor has lived on "Easy Street" for some time. Between his diet of favorable judging, HBO hyping and easy matchups (older guys, undersized guys), he seems to have lost his drive. Even for the best-schooled of fighters this can be a prescription for failure (see Mike Tyson), but for a guy who is more athlete than fighter like Taylor, it could be a fatal career move now that he is facing more substantial competition.

So I ask you: Is Jermain Taylor the next Jeff Lacy post-Calzaghe? The next David Reid post-Trinidad? The next Meldrick Taylor post-Chavez? Can and will he recover from this devastating loss or is this the beginning of the end of Taylor as a legit title contender/beltholder?

I'm not sure, personally. I think it could go either way. I never thought Taylor was particularly great before this fight, so even if he comes back strong mentally, he still just might not measure-up skills-wise against tougher competition like he faced this past Saturday night. I will definitely say this -- I do not think Taylor will ever beat Kelly Pavlik, no matter how much he improves or how much he improves his strategy. I guess there is a chance if HBO judges are scoring the fight, but that is the only way he could ever 'defeat' Kelly Pavlik in my mind.You made a few good points in that post which no-one i think really touched before the fight.
Everyone on here always used to go on bout he fights the p4p greats,at the end of the day those p4p greats were all past there prime and he didn't beat any of them by any margain whatsover(if any),he was hugely overated imo and got showed up by a half decent fighter(in his prime),not bein funny but pavlik aint nothin special but he beat a man who was supposidly p4p top ten before the fight.
Just shows how biased your lists are over here,ur bhops,winkys etc are not p4p top ten,i cant wait till Calzaghe fights your lot and show how overated they ALL are

[Brickhaus]

Jackass, Lacy isn't shot. He's injured. There's a big difference.

[paulfv]

For everyone saying Lacy was a bad example, yeah, I definitely understand your point. I guess I used of him because he went from "The Next Big Thing" to "exposed, injured, derailed question mark." That said, better examples of guys who were shot after a loss are David Reid and Meldrick Taylor.

DiBella should keep Taylor away from Pavlik for some time, IMO. Taylor would have to fight almost a perfect fight not to get KO'd again against Pavlik, and though I doubt he will ever be capable of doing so, he's definitely not mentally ready to do it right now after suffering his first, and dramatic, loss.

I voted "not sure" in the poll. Taylor has a number of good qualities on his side, but he's also been, IMO, spoiled and babied for years by HBO and DiBella. For a man who now is very wealthy, I'm not sure how much drive he has to work on his game. Even at his best his game had holes, and now many observers feel his boxing skill set has regressed.

I think deep in his heart Taylor is a very tough, humble and resilient person. Let's hope he can take a step back, get rid of all the "loser posse members" the likes of which brought down many great fighters before him (Rory Holloway, anyone?). I always liked Taylor before he became DiBella's and HBO's main guy. I really hope he can regain his footing and become what I think he is capable of as fighter.

[Zakman]

These guys were both overhyped coming out of the Olympics. They have "names," so if they continue to fight they'll be "in the mix," but neither is anywhere NEAR as good as advertised.

Personally, I'd like to see them fight each other in a sort of "crossroads" match eventually. It would be a very intriguing fight.

[Stezzie]

I don't think Taylor will ever be the same, I just don't see him recovering from this. That said, I still like him more than Lacey, whom was extremely over hyped. Lacy never was, if I recall correctly, in any close tough fights other than the JC fight where he got his ass handed to him. Taylor on the other hand had the Hopkins fights and the Wright fight, were he showed some toughness. Still with the beating he took, lack of punching power and lack of aggressiveness, I don't see a real bright future for him.

If he fights Pavlik in a immediate rematch, that will be the end of his career.

I had the fight dead even...when he would land the bombs they would stop Pavlik in his tracks...so he doesnt have lack of power...maybe a lack of technic and too much wasted energy....he needs to calm down...I could be more aggressive however...I think this loss actually pushes him into the next level...

[compukiller]

Hopkins Mentally ruined Taylor, and Pavlik broke his chin.

With that said, if he can learn his fundamentals, he may work his way into another big fight.