A comprehensive analisys of the Pacquiao affair [Archive]

Max Power

01-18-2010, 05:53 PM

He should just take test. However boxing needs to have a standardized testing system that is on par with the other major sports. I can see where Manny's camp is coming from, one fighter should not be able to dictate to the other in regards to this kind of thing. There needs to be a standard sytem that is sufficent to appease fighters, fans, and promotors etc. Currently we do not have that.

I don't believe Manny is juicing, but even if he was, he should just stop now, take the tests, and if he loses the fight - so what? A loss to Floyd will not hurt his legacy and his reputation will remain intact.

Interesting how this has already done more damage to Manny's reputation, when he hasn't ever failed a test, than positive results did for Roy, Mosley, Toney, and Holyfield combined. (I don't think Holyfield tested positive, but there was evidence of him buying Ped's)

LeonMcS

01-18-2010, 06:06 PM

No, it was Evan Fields who just happened to have the same address and phone number.

Max Power

01-18-2010, 06:08 PM

No, it was Evan Fields who just happened to have the same address and phone number.

My mistake. Disregard :D

LeonMcS

01-18-2010, 06:16 PM

Was waiting for the article to turn up and saw a link in the general forum just before bedtime. Stayed up to read it but have to say I was appalled at the amount of people who posted 'Its too long, can someone summarise it?'

And these people would be the first to take sides.

As usual I reckon Hauser has written a great article, easily the best boxing writer there is today, I'd even read this guys shopping lists.

Mosley certainly takes a battering as does GBP.

Hausers ending with the challenge to De La Hoya shows exactly what Floyd is trying to pull.

Kegsy

01-18-2010, 06:49 PM

Great article by Hauser yet again.
Good to see someone not nuthugging Golden Boy.

perfect jet

01-18-2010, 07:46 PM

Eh, this Ariza character has changed his tune a little. In this article he says:

“But there’s one thing that’s very frustrating for me,” Ariza added. “Manny won’t let me do all the tests I want to do with him. There are tests I’d love to do to determine his lung capacity, but they’re invasive and he won’t let me do them. And there are other measurements, quite a few, that I’d like to take, but I can’t because Manny is very protective of his body.”

In another interview ( b. s c e n e) he had this to say:

"I am the one in charge, I am responsible for what Manny takes. He has no idea what he takes. He is on the same thing that Amir Khan and Vanes Martirosyan is on and I don't give my guys any steroids. What I give them is all natural and It's my own special ingredients".

Very conflicting statements. Manny is so protective of his body yet he doesn't know what Ariza gives him.

Hauser could have mentioned the myriad of lies/excuses Toprank and his Pacs team have spewed about why he couldn't be tested. No mention either of Arum knowing from the start that random blood testing was Floyds request and he didn't have a problem with it originally. The fact that TR were negotiating drug testing with Floyd/Schaefer but all of a sudden it turns to defamation?

I'l have more on this piece later :)

Hmmm

01-18-2010, 08:24 PM

awesome article. respect.

PorkChopExpress

01-18-2010, 09:02 PM

perfect jet

01-18-2010, 09:13 PM

Read this the other day - absolutely the definitive article on this issue.

I think Manny needs to make concessions to take the tests - not to prove his innocence, but for the sake of the sport.

There needs to be a massive overhaul with standardised testing implemented and regular testing of anyone with in the top ten of an organisation.

Mayweather never whole heartedly wanted to fight Manny. Maybe not never, but certainly not now. I am starting to lean towards the idea that they are biding time to make the fight even bigger and this is one way of delaying. The 3 months wasn't enough time - now both fighters will go ahead in other fights and build public interest even further.

I also think if they fight head to head on March 13, Manny will slaughter Mayweather in the numbers - in Australia anyway.

Good post. I don't agree totally, but i think you have covered the major points.

I disagree where you say Floyd never whole heartedly wanted to fight Manny. How did Floyd know Pac would say no to random testing? Manny could have called his bluff and agreed. Then they would be fighting yeah?. Remember Floyd agreed to 8 oz gloves, 50/50 split and accepted a $10 million penalty for every pound over weight. Plus, he reduced the random testing window to have a cut off date of 14 days to apease Pac. Manny and his team originally said they would accept blood testing up to 5 days before the fight, then they changed to 30 days. They were all over the place with their excuses.

For the life of me, I can't see how Floyd is to blame here for the fight not going ahead, and I am trying to be impartial here. Two days after this fight was officially OFF, Pac v Clottey was made. Floyd is still scrambling for an opponent. It looks like Mosley later or bust. And Floyd didn't want to fight Pac? Nah, c'mon.

Interestingly...against common opponents, Floyd has outsold Pac every time. In saying that, Floyd couldn't compete on the same date against Pac v Clottey. Cintron looks his most worthy opponent, but Pac kills that fight.

Apparently March 13 is Floyds date with HBO. And his advisor Al Haymon has a very cosy relationship with them....even if Floyd does fight on the same day, no surprise if HBO do Floyds fight and Arum does his own Toprank PPV. I think Floyd will pass up on the date though.

Rodin

01-18-2010, 09:22 PM

.

I don't believe Manny is juicing, but even if he was, he should just stop now, take the tests, and if he loses the fight - so what? A loss to Floyd will not hurt his legacy and his reputation will remain intact.

Couple of things you say mate that is far too forgiving.

Holyfied Mosely etc are/were great fighters but they weren't 7 division champs.
Based on what Manny has achieved so far, which will become legendary, proving he was cheating will mean he was just another very good fighter with an unfair advantage, & in competition, that means he couldn't do it on his own.
His record will be completely overshadowed by this.

The way he's been beating great fighters, almost effortlessly, should he come under stringent random testing & Floyd beats him, he'll be called a cheat.
If Floyd is faster & more surgical, Manny will be forever tagged as a fraud.

I think they have dug this hole themselves (Manny's team) once Floyd said he will stand beside Manny & take the test with him, that's when the schemes began to unravel.

He has to submit now. Otherwise he is running scared of Floyd, & if ever Floyd done a thing to redeem his petulant behavior inside & outside of the ring, he will always gone down in my book as the guy who took Manny into the kitchen & stayed long after Manny was gone.

He is too high on the perch not to go through with this fight, & the testing,,unless he knows he is gunna get flogged without the juice in him..

perfect jet

01-18-2010, 09:30 PM

It's a typical, very thorough Hauser piece but it does have a Pac slant to it.

He uses Al Bernstein as a reference in explaining why Mannys form has been unworldly. Bernstein sites footwork and Roach discipline

Did Hauser miss that Kermit Cintron and Paulie Milagnaggi went public with their suspicions about Pacs recent performances? I'l put more stock in Paulie and Kermits suspicion than a guy who watches from behind a microphone. After all, Malignaggi and Cintron do fight for a living.

Hauser also paints Schaefer and GBP's hyocrisy in all this using shane Mosley as proof. Of course Arum still representing convicted cheater Margarito is ok.

pecks

01-19-2010, 12:01 AM

Mayweather should have challenged the drug testing policy in court instead of trying to make an example of Manny. Manny has every right to tell Floyd and his crew to go fuck themselves.

I'll say this though...it would have been more settling if Manny would of complied with the commission if they demanded random testing, and not just choose dates themselves.

flamengo

01-19-2010, 05:20 AM

Great story Rodin.

The implications stretch far and wide. Manny's supersticions have created supersuspicions as targets.. lame on both counts. PBF is clearly a great fighter with fewer champion qualities than Pac... assuming Pac is innocent. Hauser opens a complete can of worms where no one is innocent, cheats are spoken of and 'questionable' suspicions are turned around to confront the 'coward' PBF.

Pac's ritualistic behaviour is based on very little more than the normal supersticions.. much like Steve Waughs unchangable Test Green Baggy.. Pac's Hotel Room, same gym, same prayer church etc leaves nothing to the imagination.. driving to the fight in a seperate vehicle raises little also.. Although, thinking about it... Pac's choice of the same hotel room, can open a window of possibilities. A place for 'roids to be placed by another, prior to training... How long is the hotel room booked in advance, prior to Pac's using of the hotel? Speculative, I know. Maybe he just likes the convex ceiling mirrors that make his apendage appear less than shrunken, hides his bald spot, pimples and man boobs?? A fit of rage my occur should he be placed in a different room? lol.

The Neveda State Athletic Commission are just as lame as anything else American based. 'Olympic stlye' drug checks?? LMAO... The ever growing list of exposed (10 years after the event) US Track & Field cheats is completely forceful of large piles of SHIT through each of the Olympic Rings. The stench wont cease.

Pac is more than likely a cheat... PBF is less than likely a hero. The game has to be Policed... Authorities are human, curruptable and suitably describe by countless expletives.. The circle is never ending.

Why wouldn't a kid raised in the gutter take 'roids, in hope of making a squilion dollars in boxing?? Robbing a passing Grand Ma as a child would not have embarassed them.. certainly didn't bother Tyson.

Corruption starts a the top of the spectrum (Authority), regardless of who takes drugs first, as the Top End is the means to the same shit happening again, over and over.

Hauser's story is amazing, yet the end is no better than TeamPBF's requests to TeamPac.. All fighters should be available to random tests by a credible drug testing agency.. Not a USA, Phillapine, China, German or Russian based consortium.. In saying that, there is never going to be a truly infallible solution. No one is incorruptable.... especially the Yanks.

ashley

01-19-2010, 06:29 AM

Pac woke up one day and said...what the fuck am I doing...I cant beat Money Mayweather :deal

PorkChopExpress

01-19-2010, 07:07 AM

Good post. I don't agree totally, but i think you have covered the major points.

I disagree where you say Floyd never whole heartedly wanted to fight Manny. How did Floyd know Pac would say no to random testing? Manny could have called his bluff and agreed. Then they would be fighting yeah?. Remember Floyd agreed to 8 oz gloves, 50/50 split and accepted a $10 million penalty for every pound over weight. Plus, he reduced the random testing window to have a cut off date of 14 days to apease Pac. Manny and his team originally said they would accept blood testing up to 5 days before the fight, then they changed to 30 days. They were all over the place with their excuses.

For the life of me, I can't see how Floyd is to blame here for the fight not going ahead, and I am trying to be impartial here. Two days after this fight was officially OFF, Pac v Clottey was made. Floyd is still scrambling for an opponent. It looks like Mosley later or bust. And Floyd didn't want to fight Pac? Nah, c'mon.

Interestingly...against common opponents, Floyd has outsold Pac every time. In saying that, Floyd couldn't compete on the same date against Pac v Clottey. Cintron looks his most worthy opponent, but Pac kills that fight.

Apparently March 13 is Floyds date with HBO. And his advisor Al Haymon has a very cosy relationship with them....even if Floyd does fight on the same day, no surprise if HBO do Floyds fight and Arum does his own Toprank PPV. I think Floyd will pass up on the date though.

Thanks - yeah I know how many concessions Floyd made, and I don't have much of an argument. Admittedly, it's a gut feeling that little theory on waiting to get more interest in the fight.

That said, Floyd accepted a penatly that stipulated he needs to weigh in at his current weight. This isn't tipping an advantage in Pac's favour, it's stopping Mayweather from coming in with an advantage over Pac by weighing as much as he feels comfortable doing. It's for show, to stop him doing to Manny what he did to Marquez. That stipulation is for a fair fight.

50/50 split is only fair if you ask me. As the article says, and I agree, Pac is the draw. He's also a fan favorite to a public soured by Floyd, his mouth and his 'unentertaining' fights (not my opinion, I love watching him, but the general public don't always appreciate that). Manny is a fighter who gets the job done and they love him for it... 50/50 should be a given, not a concession from Floyd. It's not the potentially biggest fight ever because only one of them is 'the draw'...

Also, the fact that Pac's team were all over the place with their comments means they were unorganised, they obviously weren't communicating and kept speaking for each other. This doesn't mean Pac cheated. It means Arum and others jumped the gun... or rather, could mean. And that's the way I lean.

All said and done though - I agree with you. Floyd isn't to blame. He has his rights to a fair fight, but should have taken a legal approach. Pac has a right to tell Floyd to go to hell as well - but should DEFINITELY take the tests.

Now, since we posted Mosley/Berto is called off. I've said over the past week multiple times on this forum that Floyd will never fight Mosley. I hope I'm really wrong. This is now the only fight for Floyd. Nothing else is good enough except Paul Williams or possibly Bradley (even Bradley is a bit of a step down imo though). It will be very telling of Floyd if he doesn't demand Olympic testing against a fighter found guilty of using... and even more telling if this fight doesn't happen at all.

I think Shane has everything needed to beat Floyd and I'll be interested to see what concessions Floyd asks of him for sure.

Either way - the winner fights Pac, who smashes Clottey. Could all work out for the best anyway!

PorkChopExpress

01-19-2010, 07:11 AM

It's a typical, very thorough Hauser piece but it does have a Pac slant to it.

Yeah, it certainly does. He makes his case though to a degree. He slaughters Mosley.

The next few days will be interesting indeed!

ashley

01-19-2010, 07:19 AM

[quote=PorkChopExpress;5935364]......50/50 split is only fair if you ask me. As the article says, and I agree, Pac is the draw. He's also a fan favorite to a public soured by Floyd, his mouth and his 'unentertaining' fights (not my opinion, I love watching him, but the general public don't always appreciate that). Manny is a fighter who gets the job done and they love him for it... 50/50 should be a given, not a concession from Floyd. It's not the potentially biggest fight ever because only one of them is 'the draw'...

DUDE WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT????????

Money has better PPV numbers than Pac :deal

floyd truly is the bigger draw between him and manny, and heres proof, floyd vs dlh equals the greatest grossing event in history of ppv sports, over 2.4 million buys, manny vs. dlh equals 1.4 million buys, floyd vs hatton equals 940 thousand buys, manny vs hatton equals 830 thousand buys, floyd vs marquez equals just over 1 million buys, the largest of the 2 manny marquez fights was 500 thousand buys, so in terms of ppv numbers they have 3 common opponents and floyd destroys pacs numbers in 2 of them and clearly beats him in the third, so is there really any doubt who the larger draw is, people love mayweather and people love to hate him, thats why more people pay to see him, there is no doubt that mayweather cotto would have done at least 1.7 or 1.8 million buys, but that is just speculation, and based on their common numbers it is clear who the bigger draw is, now pac fans those are facts, so if your gonna respond please use facts not just your ignorance

flamengo

01-19-2010, 07:26 AM

[quote=PorkChopExpress;5935364]......50/50 split is only fair if you ask me. As the article says, and I agree, Pac is the draw. He's also a fan favorite to a public soured by Floyd, his mouth and his 'unentertaining' fights (not my opinion, I love watching him, but the general public don't always appreciate that). Manny is a fighter who gets the job done and they love him for it... 50/50 should be a given, not a concession from Floyd. It's not the potentially biggest fight ever because only one of them is 'the draw'...
DUDE WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT????????

Money has better PPV numbers than Pac :deal

floyd truly is the bigger draw between him and manny, and heres proof, floyd vs dlh equals the greatest grossing event in history of ppv sports, over 2.4 million buys, manny vs. dlh equals 1.4 million buys, floyd vs hatton equals 940 thousand buys, manny vs hatton equals 830 thousand buys, floyd vs marquez equals just over 1 million buys, the largest of the 2 manny marquez fights was 500 thousand buys, so in terms of ppv numbers they have 3 common opponents and floyd destroys pacs numbers in 2 of them and clearly beats him in the third, so is there really any doubt who the larger draw is, people love mayweather and people love to hate him, thats why more people pay to see him, there is no doubt that mayweather cotto would have done at least 1.7 or 1.8 million buys, but that is just speculation, and based on their common numbers it is clear who the bigger draw is, now pac fans those are facts, so if your gonna respond please use facts not just your ignorance

Why do I get the feeling all of the figures you suggest are USA buys only????

Francis75

01-19-2010, 07:27 AM

[quote=PorkChopExpress;5935364]......50/50 split is only fair if you ask me. As the article says, and I agree, Pac is the draw. He's also a fan favorite to a public soured by Floyd, his mouth and his 'unentertaining' fights (not my opinion, I love watching him, but the general public don't always appreciate that). Manny is a fighter who gets the job done and they love him for it... 50/50 should be a given, not a concession from Floyd. It's not the potentially biggest fight ever because only one of them is 'the draw'...
DUDE WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT????????

Money has better PPV numbers than Pac :deal

floyd truly is the bigger draw between him and manny, and heres proof, floyd vs dlh equals the greatest grossing event in history of ppv sports, over 2.4 million buys, manny vs. dlh equals 1.4 million buys, floyd vs hatton equals 940 thousand buys, manny vs hatton equals 830 thousand buys, floyd vs marquez equals just over 1 million buys, the largest of the 2 manny marquez fights was 500 thousand buys, so in terms of ppv numbers they have 3 common opponents and floyd destroys pacs numbers in 2 of them and clearly beats him in the third, so is there really any doubt who the larger draw is, people love mayweather and people love to hate him, thats why more people pay to see him, there is no doubt that mayweather cotto would have done at least 1.7 or 1.8 million buys, but that is just speculation, and based on their common numbers it is clear who the bigger draw is, now pac fans those are facts, so if your gonna respond please use facts not just your ignorance

Spot on Ash. :good Floyd is the bigger draw when he faces top level opposition. People just hate Floyd whereas most people seem to love the Pacman it clouds their judgement.

PorkChopExpress

01-19-2010, 07:27 AM

I guess I'm saying the mantle is being passed as we speak. Yeah, ppl watch Floyd to see if he will get beat and ALOOOOTTA ppl think PAC is the guy to do
it

Francis75

01-19-2010, 07:30 AM

[quote=ashley;5935400]

Why do I get the feeling all of the figures you suggest are USA buys only????

Are Pacman's fights shown on PPV in the Philippines and Asia or free to air ?

ashley

01-19-2010, 07:34 AM

[quote=ashley;5935400]

Spot on Ash. :good Floyd is the bigger draw when he faces top level opposition. People just hate Floyd whereas most people seem to love the Pacman it clouds their judgement.

Money Mayweather is my Fav fighter outside AUST....I know he can polarize people (AKA Mundine) but he has the goods in every department :deal

flamengo

01-19-2010, 07:34 AM

[quote=flamengo;5935425]

Are Pacman's fights shown on PPV in the Philippines and Asia or free to air ?

I can't see the promo's being free to air, especially in such a populos country for the tourist market. Pirate screening and LIVE LINKS would be childs play for the witty & industrious Asian market.

ashley

01-19-2010, 07:35 AM

I guess I'm saying the mantle is being passed as we speak. Yeah, ppl watch Floyd to see if he will get beat and ALOOOOTTA ppl think PAC is the guy to do
it

Pac is going great guns.....but MM is still number 1 P4P in my book :hey

flamengo

01-19-2010, 07:38 AM

C'mon Ash... USA or International figures?????????????????????????????????

PorkChopExpress

01-19-2010, 07:40 AM

Pac is going great guns.....but MM is still number 1 P4P in my book :hey

Me too. When time comes to pick it in our comp my head goes with MM and my gut with PAC. I think MM takes it... But the fact so many others give PAC the legit chance to win, to me, means PAC bring as many viewers to the table this time. Thus why it'll be the biggest fight ever

ashley

01-19-2010, 07:45 AM

Me too. When time comes to pick it in our comp my head goes with MM and my gut with PAC. I think MM takes it... But the fact so many others give PAC the legit chance to win, to me, means PAC bring as many viewers to the table this time. Thus why it'll be the biggest fight ever

As we know Money wont engage.....he wont fight on the inside.....he will use his range, speed and evasion....Pac is great....however MM has the tools to beat him :good

flamengo

01-19-2010, 07:47 AM

As we know Money wont engage.....he wont fight on the inside.....he will use his range, speed and evasion....Pac is great....however MM has the tools to beat him :good

USA or International PPV's Ash... engage the truth mate. Facts.

Francis75

01-19-2010, 07:51 AM

Pac is going great guns.....but MM is still number 1 P4P in my book :hey

I agree Ash. Imo Floyd is the most talented boxer on the planet and has been for many years now. I know a lot of people don't like watching him fight but i do.

ashley

01-19-2010, 07:54 AM

USA or International PPV's Ash... engage the truth mate. Facts.

As I sit here...considering Flamingos annoying posts....I look out over the waters of Magnetic Island....drinking NZ Sab Blanc and eating exotic cheeses....I cant help but to think what a great place this is....and what an annoying cunt Flamingo is :lol:

The answer to your questions is recordable world PPV numbers :deal

PS: Anybody been to magnetic Island before....fuck its great...my wife just picked up 3 ocean front units....and of course we need to stay in them to test them out :yep

flamengo

01-19-2010, 07:58 AM

As I sit here...considering Flamingos annoying posts....I look out over the waters of Magnetic Island....drinking NZ Sab Blanc and eating exotic cheeses....I cant help but to think what a great place this is....and what an annoying cunt Flamingo is :lol:

The answer to your questions is recordable world PPV numbers :deal

PS: Anybody been to magnetic Island before....fuck its great...my wife just picked up 3 ocean front units....and of course we need to stay in them to test them out :yep

Be sure to wash the bullshit from the walls before you leave.. :D

ashley

01-19-2010, 08:05 AM

Be sure to wash the bullshit from the walls before you leave.. :D

WTF are you talking about....I don't bullshit....if I need to totally embarrass you I will take a photo of myself in front of the Magnetic Island ferry and post it in the morning....I have met 6 members who will identify me :deal

perfect jet

01-19-2010, 08:07 AM

[quote=ashley;5935400]

Why do I get the feeling all of the figures you suggest are USA buys only????

Even if they are, your point is?

At the end of the day, they are the figures that decide how much the fighters get paid.

ashley

01-19-2010, 08:24 AM

[quote=flamengo;5935425]

Even if they are, your point is?

At the end of the day, they are the figures that decide how much the fighters get paid.

At the end of the day Porkchop said or quoted that PAC is the draw card....I dont agree....MM is the world PPV king :deal....Yes PAC is a great HOF, P4P king but MM has the P4V numbers....hes the man....lets see if PAC can take that from him :yep

flamengo

01-19-2010, 08:25 AM

[quote=flamengo;5935425]

Even if they are, your point is?

At the end of the day, they are the figures that decide how much the fighters get paid.

My point being.. Ash related a bunch of figures.. The Thomas Hauser Scribe suggested the fight being moved to Dallas could generate 700,000 extra PPVS..

2.4 Million PPV's for PBF vs whoever, was the leading PPV at this point in time. Ash's arguement and showing of PPV's being based on popularity stakes.. I questioned the listed numbers due to the FUCKING MASSIVE SURGE in Manny Pac fans internationally. Until the figures are produced unequivicably and undeniably, I will not believe them.

Asian and European markets would produce more than 1 Million each for Pac vs Nanna.. let alone Pac vs Hatton or Pac vs De la Hoya.

flamengo

01-19-2010, 08:27 AM

Whats going on with the names in the post replies??

ashley

01-19-2010, 08:30 AM

Whats going on with the names in the post replies??

Looks ok to me...get off the :rasta and it will look ok to you as well :D

flamengo

01-19-2010, 08:34 AM

Looks ok to me...get off the :rasta and it will look ok to you as well :D

Take a look at the responses.

perfect jet

01-19-2010, 08:38 AM

[quote=perfect jet;5935576]

My point being.. Ash related a bunch of figures.. The Thomas Hauser Scribe suggested the fight being moved to Dallas could generate 700,000 extra PPVS..

2.4 Million PPV's for PBF vs whoever, was the leading PPV at this point in time. Ash's arguement and showing of PPV's being based on popularity stakes.. I questioned the listed numbers due to the FUCKING MASSIVE SURGE in Manny Pac fans internationally. Until the figures are produced unequivicably and undeniably, I will not believe them.

Asian and European markets would produce more than 1 Million each for Pac vs Nanna.. let alone Pac vs Hatton or Pac vs De la Hoya.

I don't know where Ash got his figures from. But I know that the numbers HBO have released show that Floyd did more buys than Pac did against the same opponent.

Floyd v Hatton
Floyd v Oscar
Floyd v JMM

ashley

01-19-2010, 08:38 AM

Your right ASH...I'm on drugs.

Get some help :D

ashley

01-19-2010, 08:39 AM

[quote=JET;5935641]

I don't know where Ash got his figures from. But I know that the numbers HBO have released show that Floyd did more buys than Pac did against the same opponent.

Floyd v Hatton
Floyd v Oscar
Floyd v JMM

So are you saying I'm right or wrong...but still right :huh

perfect jet

01-19-2010, 08:39 AM

LOL. We are all replying to ourselves. So that's what it's like to be a shichzo. :)

flamengo

01-19-2010, 08:43 AM

LOL. We are all replying to ourselves. So that's what it's like to be a shichzo. :)

But you started it..

No I didn't..

ashley

01-19-2010, 08:43 AM

LOL. We are all replying to ourselves. So that's what it's like to be a shichzo. :)

I know 1 thing is right for sure......Sav Blanc tastes better with cheese than XXXX Gold does :deal

perfect jet

01-19-2010, 08:44 AM

[quote=perfect jet;5935693]

So are you saying I'm right or wrong...but still right :huh

Im saying the number released by HBO is what counts at the table. If they don't include overseas sales (Im almost certain they don't), then whether Pac sells more than Floyd in Australia or the UK is irrelevant.

That's of course if we are talking about leverage during negotiations, which I am. World wide popularity is another basket.

ashley

01-19-2010, 08:48 AM

[quote=JEY;5935705]

Im saying the number released by HBO is what counts at the table. If they include overseas sales (Im almost certain they don't), then whether Pac sells more than Floyd in Australia or the UK is irrelevant.

That's of course if we are talking about leverage during negotiations, which I am. World wide popularity is another basket.

Ok so what your saying is 2.4 m sales for MM V Osacr is US only :lol: ....flamer says it should be twice that amount so lets say $120m net to the fighters....plus gate...plus sponsors :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl...stop :rastathis shit

Kegsy

01-19-2010, 08:59 AM

Pac is shown on free to air in the Philippines.

ozziebattler

01-19-2010, 09:00 AM

[quote=perfect jet;5935728]

Ok so what your saying is 2.4 m sales for MM V Osacr is US only :lol: ....flamer says it should be twice that amount so lets say $120m net to the fighters....plus gate...plus sponsors :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl...stop :rastathis shit

120Million??

Thats even 4times tyson money.

ozziebattler

01-19-2010, 09:04 AM

Pac is shown on free to air in the Philippines.

Yeah the whole country huddle around the one t.v. owned by Pacs mum..

Mate Rootyhill Rsl gets atleast 1000 of the buggers for each pc fight..If he ends up fighting pbf down the track im going to be fucked..Im going to have to mask up.

The smell of rotten prawns and the sounds of then screaming like little girls every jab he throws is going to kill me..

ashley

01-19-2010, 09:06 AM

Pac is shown on free to air in the Philippines.

Mate...Flamengo cant be wrong :rofl

TheDuke

01-19-2010, 10:31 AM

Pac is shown on free to air in the Philippines.

This may be true but I guarantee the cable company is paid a lot of money to stand aside much of which goes back to Pac and opponent.

Kegsy

01-19-2010, 12:37 PM

I have read numerous articles including quotes by Bob Arum, & there is not much money to made from a 3rd world country like the Philippines showing Pacquiao matches on free to air compared to Europe & North America with their huge Pay TV & PPV deals.

boxon123

01-20-2010, 01:29 AM

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Is Manny Superman,, or a dangerous deceptive crook?

After reading this, I think the onus really is on Manny to drop all the shit, submit to an anywhere anytime testing regime & fight Floyd.

He's too big a name & far too influential based on his career success to be allowed to have this suspicion go on as a meaningless hyped up debate.

All time best HOF'er?,,,,, or King of the Hall of Infamy (Cheats)? as I have pointed out elsewhere all the testing in the world has not cleared Lance Armstrong! I am Glad you have bought into this crap it will help Pacquiao's court case I hope he gets everything Mayweather and his father has ever earned.

Watto

01-20-2010, 01:31 AM

Pacman would smash him Myweather scared..End of story...

flamengo

01-20-2010, 05:23 AM

perfect jet

01-20-2010, 06:03 AM

I have no memory of posting any comment suggesting, nor is there a single comment that is posted by me to suggest the Phillipines are the entire ASIAN market... I questioned the figures posted by ASH.. Hence me questioning him on two occassions about the WORLD WIDE or USA PPV's that recieved no response.

ASIAN MARKET= a million PPV Buys.. European market = a million PPV buys. If Mundine can draw 100,000 in Oz PPv's.. Pac is capable of the same numbers inside a fucking Bus shelter.

If Pac v Floyd was PPV in the Phils, he would receive a large chunk of that money. Like Hatton would have got a percentage of UK buys when he fought Floyd.

Outside their own countries, it's really neutral ground. The only figures released in situations like these are US buys (although HBO do have total ppv sales).

When was the last time Pac used overseas ppv buys as a bargaining chip? Promoters don't negotiate it unless it's their own country.

LeonMcS

01-20-2010, 06:32 AM

Theres no way Mundine got close to 100,000 ever.

ashley

01-20-2010, 06:39 AM

... I questioned the figures posted by ASH.. Hence me questioning him on two occassions about the WORLD WIDE or USA PPV's that recieved no response.....

.

Because I'm a bit of an Oscar fan I like to collect facts about the biggest PPV start in the world....however I dont have all of his fights

Oscar De La Hoya's World Pay-Per-View History

1. Rafael Ruelas (5/95) 330,000 buys = $9.9 million
2. Genaro Hernandez (9/95) 220,000 buys = $6.6 million
3. Miguel Angel Gonzalez (1/97) 345,000 buys = $12.1 million
4. Pernell Whitaker (4/97) 720,000 buys = $28.8 million
5. Hector Camacho (9/97) 560,000 buys = $22.4 million
6. Wilfredo Rivera (12/97) 240,000 buys = $9.6 million
7. Julio Cesar Chavez II ( 9/98) 525,000 buys = $23.6 million
8. Ike Quartey ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) ( 2/99) 570,000 buys =$25.7 million
9. Felix Trinidad (9/99) 1.4 million buys = $71.4 million
10. Shane Mosley ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (6/00) 590,000 buys = $29.5 million
11. Javier Castillejo (6/01) 400,000 buys = $16.0 million
12. Fernando Vargas ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (9/02) 935,000 buys = $47.8 million
13. Yory Boy Campas (5/03) 350,000 buys = $17.5 million
14. Shane Mosley II (9/03) 950,000 buys = $48.4 million
15. Felix Sturm (6/04) 380,000 buys = $19.0 million
16. Bernard Hopkins ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (9/04) 1 million buys = $56.0 million
17. Ricardo Mayorga ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (5/06) 935,000 buys = $46.3 million
18. Floyd Mayweather Jr. (5/07) 2.15 million buys = $120.0 million

Please note flamer...these are WORLD numbers

flamengo

01-20-2010, 06:40 AM

If Pac v Floyd was PPV in the Phils, he would receive a large chunk of that money. Like Hatton would have got a percentage of UK buys when he fought Floyd.

Outside their own countries, it's really neutral ground. The only figures released in situations like these are US buys (although HBO do have total ppv sales).

When was the last time Pac used overseas ppv buys as a bargaining chip? Promoters don't negotiate it unless it's their own country.

HBO have the income from 'PPV Buys'... this being filterd back to the Teams in minor comparative portions. Do you think the ASIAN/European market returns are ever going to be divulged to a fighter, or fighters team??

Try this one.. Mandy/Geale's suggested PPV's.. 90,000-ish. With pubs etc, maybe $7Mil revenue.. less profitable taxes, less KEEP profits for PPV provider, less all that comes into account.. The PPV body are not a co-operative of either team. Business is business.. What % of taxed/expenditure/profitable and accordingly surplased monies will go towards the Mundine mob??

Arums etc. on the World scale are no filthy rich because they give money away. :D

ashley

01-20-2010, 06:41 AM

Theres no way Mundine got close to 100,000 ever.

What about the Green fight :hey

LeonMcS

01-20-2010, 07:06 AM

And your asking me when we both know?

flamengo

01-20-2010, 07:15 AM

And your asking me when we both know?

PPV records via the AMH remain presumtuous... my list of a 90,000-ish figure is outlandish and guessably wrong.. Not unkile ym spellign.. The true figure for Green/Mundine I'd like to know.. I'd stiil say the % split to either party remains a 40% of gross profit... divided according to contracts.

LeonMcS

01-20-2010, 07:21 AM

If you halved that Choc-Geale number it'd still be too high.

flamengo

01-20-2010, 07:33 AM

If you halved that Choc-Geale number it'd still be too high.

...but I'm talking in Ruppiah figures.. :D AMH is really a NutHugging nightmare..

35,000??

ashley

01-20-2010, 07:39 AM

...but I'm talking in Ruppiah figures.. :D AMH is really a NutHugging nightmare..

35,000??

Your getting warmer :hey

flamengo

01-20-2010, 07:59 AM

Your getting warmer :hey

31??????? .. Including illegal views?

ashley

01-20-2010, 08:05 AM

31??????? .. Including illegal views?

cold

flamengo

01-20-2010, 08:15 AM

cold

31 huddled together to keep warm??

ashley

01-20-2010, 08:21 AM

31 huddled together to keep warm??

:patsch

flamengo

01-20-2010, 08:23 AM

:patsch

31 Michael Jackson impersonaters slapping their own foreheads???

ashley

01-20-2010, 08:26 AM

31 Michael Jackson impersonaters slapping their own foreheads???

:plzdie

flamengo

01-20-2010, 08:34 AM

:plzdie

Is that German 'Stop' sign??

boxon123

01-20-2010, 10:16 AM

According to HBO, the Nov. 14, pay per view between Manny” Pacman” Pacquiao and Miguel Cotto, sold 1.25 million pay per views.

HBO Sports president Ross Greenburg confirmed Friday the welterweight title fight grossed $70 million.

Cable television homes drew 650,000 buys, and from satellite television viewers the fight drew 600,000 . It also set a record of 110,000 buys from Miguel Cotto’s home of Puerto Rico.

Manny Pacquiao’s pay per view has proven he is a box office star. Pacquiao-Cotto made the top 10 list of best selling pay per view boxing events of all time.

This was the 2nd time that two boxing pay per views surpassed 1 million pay per view buys in the same year, the last time was 1999 when Lennox Lewis-Evander Holyfield and Oscar De La Hoya-Felix Trinidad did over a million buys each.

The Pacquiao-Cotto pay per view beat the 1.05 million number by Mayweather for his September comeback fight against Juan Manuel Marquez.

Bob Arum said Pacquiao will end up making around $22 million for his 12th round tko of Miguel Cotto, while Cotto will end up with $12 million.

The record for most pay per view buys was set in 2007 by Floyd Mayweather and Oscar De La Hoya, that fight sold 2.4 million pay per views.