Benitez-Duran '82 / Weight Issue.....

[MRBILL]

Folks,

I was just reviewing my tape of "Benitez-Duran" from 1982 off of HBO. I am a bit confused with Raymond Leonard's comments in regards to Roberto Duran making the 154 lb. weight limit going into the fight.. SRL stated that Duran had been at or near the Jr. Middleweight limit of 154 for the past few weeks, and by doing so, Duran might be weight-drained for being down in weight for that length of time... WTF??? Roberto Duran is / was a regular 135 to 147 pounder; never a natural 154 pounder... Why would Duran be weak by keeping his weight down near the contracted limit of 154 when he is a naturally smaller fighter / man??? I'd figure that by being at or near 154 for a prolonged period of time, he'd be adjusted and comfortable at 154 pounds, instead of just barely making weight at the last day or so, etc..

What also bugs the shit outta me is, Duran was lean and fit at 154 for Luigi Minchillo earlier in Sept. 1981 out in Vegas........ Well, Duran fought Willie Benitez at 154 in Jan. 1982...... Yes, a mere "4" month period..... I have a statement by Roberto Duran who said he had to drop 38 pounds in order to make weight for Benitez in '82............ Q: How the hell did Duran weigh 154 in Sept. 1981 for Minchillo, and then balloon up to 192 pounds, just to drop back down to 154 for Benitez in Jan. 1982??? How did he (Duran) do this???? If Roberto Duran did infact put on and then drop 38 pounds during the four month period between the 'Minchillo' and 'Benitez' fights, well then, I can certainly understand R.D. being weak and sluggish in his '82 title losing challenge to Willie Benitez......

Any thoughts here?:huh:deal

MR.BILL:bbb

[Boxed Ears]

How did he put on and take off so much? He was Roberto friggin' Duran. He was an extremist.

[Russell]

Yeah, take someone who grew up starving and put them in front of a buffet every night, none the less in the glamorous, over indulgent 80's and there's going to be issues.

[My2Sense]

I am a bit confused with Raymond Leonard's comments in regards to Roberto Duran making the 154 lb. weight limit going into the fight.. SRL stated that Duran had been at or near the Jr. Middleweight limit of 154 for the past few weeks, and by doing so, Duran might be weight-drained for being down in weight for that length of time... WTF??? Roberto Duran is / was a regular 135 to 147 pounder; never a natural 154 pounder... Why would Duran be weak by keeping his weight down near the contracted limit of 154 when he is a naturally smaller fighter / man??? I'd figure that by being at or near 154 for a prolonged period of time, he'd be adjusted and comfortable at 154 pounds, instead of just barely making weight at the last day or so, etc..

He was saying Duran might be overtrained. In other words, he made the weight too soon and held it down for too long, and thus was weakened from that.


What also bugs the shit outta me is, Duran was lean and fit at 154 for Luigi Minchillo earlier in Sept. 1981 out in Vegas........ Well, Duran fought Willie Benitez at 154 in Jan. 1982...... Yes, a mere "4" month period..... I have a statement by Roberto Duran who said he had to drop 38 pounds in order to make weight for Benitez in '82............ Q: How the hell did Duran weigh 154 in Sept. 1981 for Minchillo, and then balloon up to 192 pounds, just to drop back down to 154 for Benitez in Jan. 1982??? How did he (Duran) do this???? If Roberto Duran did infact put on and then drop 38 pounds during the four month period between the 'Minchillo' and 'Benitez' fights, well then, I can certainly understand R.D. being weak and sluggish in his '82 title losing challenge to Willie Benitez......


That one's simple: he's a bitchass excuse maker.

[divac]

Folks,

I was just reviewing my tape of "Benitez-Duran" from 1982 off of HBO. I am a bit confused with Raymond Leonard's comments in regards to Roberto Duran making the 154 lb. weight limit going into the fight.. SRL stated that Duran had been at or near the Jr. Middleweight limit of 154 for the past few weeks, and by doing so, Duran might be weight-drained for being down in weight for that length of time... WTF??? Roberto Duran is / was a regular 135 to 147 pounder; never a natural 154 pounder... Why would Duran be weak by keeping his weight down near the contracted limit of 154 when he is a naturally smaller fighter / man??? I'd figure that by being at or near 154 for a prolonged period of time, he'd be adjusted and comfortable at 154 pounds, instead of just barely making weight at the last day or so, etc..

What also bugs the shit outta me is, Duran was lean and fit at 154 for Luigi Minchillo earlier in Sept. 1981 out in Vegas........ Well, Duran fought Willie Benitez at 154 in Jan. 1982...... Yes, a mere "4" month period..... I have a statement by Roberto Duran who said he had to drop 38 pounds in order to make weight for Benitez in '82............ Q: How the hell did Duran weigh 154 in Sept. 1981 for Minchillo, and then balloon up to 192 pounds, just to drop back down to 154 for Benitez in Jan. 1982??? How did he (Duran) do this???? If Roberto Duran did infact put on and then drop 38 pounds during the four month period between the 'Minchillo' and 'Benitez' fights, well then, I can certainly understand R.D. being weak and sluggish in his '82 title losing challenge to Willie Benitez......

Any thoughts here?:huh:deal

MR.BILL:bbb

The question is when did Duran make the statement that he had to drop 38 lbs???

Knowing Duran, I'm sure he put on a few pounds just a couple a week removed from the Minchillo fight......

......but if its the Duran of today talking, I'm sure just like any old timer, he's going to exaggerate and make the truth into a tale.:D

[The Morlocks]

Thats what it was all about & lets not forget his capacity for sinking the odd dozen beers before he attacked all the free dinners 24/7. I don't think he really wanted to fight anymore after Montreal.

I read that el presidente of panama ordered him dragged back to panama & threw him into a jail of the coast of panama for 6 weeks so as to train without distractions.
He trained on Coiba, an island where the criminals roam free. Rapists, such as Ayala, murderers such as that guy from the Ravens, etc. Duran said he could get no sleep and it was a nightmare. For the guy that said Duran was a bitchass excuse maker:asskissAt lest Duran fought guys straight up and w/out any demands for bigger rings, certain glove, rounds etc. He didn't wait for a guy to get too fat to get back in shape or anyother shit. He just accepted the fight and asked no quarter and gave no quarter. No matter what anyone thinks, Duran is universally considered one of the top fighters of all time and is ranked higher in history than ANYONE from the last 30 years, For proof, look at all the published lists and books old articles etc. :fy:fy:fy

[Stevie G]

Thats what it was all about & lets not forget his capacity for sinking the odd dozen beers before he attacked all the free dinners 24/7. I don't think he really wanted to fight anymore after Montreal.

I read that el presidente of panama ordered him dragged back to panama & threw him into a jail of the coast of panama for 6 weeks so as to train without distractions.
I remember reading about that too. He looked really lean and hungry for the Davey Moore fight,did n't he ?

[MRBILL]

The question is when did Duran make the statement that he had to drop 38 lbs???

Knowing Duran, I'm sure he put on a few pounds just a couple a week removed from the Minchillo fight......

......but if its the Duran of today talking, I'm sure just like any old timer, he's going to exaggerate and make the truth into a tale.:D


I read a 'Duran' interview in either World Boxing or International Boxing magazine back in 1982 / '83.......... I had a subscription back then..... Duran went on file saying he struggled with "Benitez, Laing and Jimmy Batten" in 1982 cuz of a lack of training and that he was merely fighting on his name and reputation alone, etc.... Duran was about age 31 during this interview and he refused to acknowledge that he was aging and fading....... It was in that article where Duran claimed he had to drop 38 pounds for the fight with Wilfred Benitez...........
:thumbsup

MR.BILL

NOTE!

The magazine also asked if Duran thought his power was hindered at the higher weight of 154 and Duran said: "NO!" Duran explained that his power was still there but he had been fighting runners who refuse to trade with him in the ring....... So therefore, Duran had to chase a few bastards.......
:bbb

I'm sure Duran was blowing some smoke out his ass at the time, but he did make a great comeback in boxing come 1983 against "Cuevas, Moore & Hagler."
:yep

[Pachilles]

you people almost make me hate Duran

[Gesta]

Duran, Duran the king of kings.

[SOMERSETDURAN]

All makes me love him even more!

[MRBILL]

Yeah... I'm a 'Duran' nut-hugger to the max........

MR.BILL

[Mantequilla]

Benitez was just the better junior middleweight overall and a terrible matchup for Duran at that point in his career.

[MRBILL]

Benitez was just the better junior middleweight overall and a terrible matchup for Duran at that point in his career.

The win over Duran would also prove to be Benitez' last meaningful win of his career......... Losses to "Hearns & Hamsho" would soon follow...... The '87 KO loss to Matt Hilton on TV sealed the coffin shut on Benitez' career....
:patsch

MR.BILL

[divac]

I read a 'Duran' interview in either World Boxing or International Boxing magazine back in 1982 / '83.......... I had a subscription back then..... Duran went on file saying he struggled with "Benitez, Laing and Jimmy Batten" in 1982 cuz of a lack of training and that he was merely fighting on his name and reputation alone, etc.... Duran was about age 31 during this interview and he refused to acknowledge that he was aging and fading....... It was in that article where Duran claimed he had to drop 38 pounds for the fight with Wilfred Benitez...........
:thumbsup

MR.BILL

NOTE!

The magazine also asked if Duran thought his power was hindered at the higher weight of 154 and Duran said: "NO!" Duran explained that his power was still there but he had been fighting runners who refuse to trade with him in the ring....... So therefore, Duran had to chase a few bastards.......
:bbb

I'm sure Duran was blowing some smoke out his ass at the time, but he did make a great comeback in boxing come 1983 against "Cuevas, Moore & Hagler."
:yep

The fighter himself is the last to say he's slowing.......

"Cuevas, Moore, and Hagler.".......all fighters that Duran did'nt have to go look for.

Leonard, Benitez and Laing who Duran lost too, all gave Duran lateral movements that frustrated him.

At over 147 lbs, Duran just did'nt have footspeed to chase, that any decent enough fighter who went in with the plan to move on Duran, was going to have some success against him.


You know, most fighters are like Roberto Duran, there's always an excuse for the reason they lost.

......it makes me wonder why JC Chavez gets so much flak from it, and Duran who imo went well above the level of excuse making that Chavez did, hardly gets any here at ESB.

[MRBILL]

The fighter himself is the last to say he's slowing.......

"Cuevas, Moore, and Hagler.".......all fighters that Duran did'nt have to go look for.

Leonard, Benitez and Laing who Duran lost too, all gave Duran lateral movements that frustrated him.

At over 147 lbs, Duran just did'nt have footspeed to chase, that any decent enough fighter who went in with the plan to move on Duran, was going to have some success against him.


You know, most fighters are like Roberto Duran, there's always an excuse for the reason they lost.

......it makes me wonder why JC Chavez gets so much flak from it, and Duran who imo went well above the level of excuse making that Chavez did, hardly gets any here at ESB.

Divac,

You sound just like Te Tumbo up front........... A Mexican lover; other than---Hater........ Duran is / was GREAT!
:hey:thumbsup:hat

MR.BILL

[MAG1965]

Benitez was just the better junior middleweight overall and a terrible matchup for Duran at that point in his career.Duran was never a good matchup with a legend with speed, which Hagler/Hearns/Benitez/Leonard had.

[MRBILL]

I am reviewing Duran's ill fated fight with Benitez from 1982 by way of my HBO tape..... Duran looked fit, trim and tanned at 152, however, he also looked sluggish and non-aggressive against the cagey / savvy Benitez...... Duran was just a step slow in this fight.... Many have speculated that Duran was weight drained.... Perhaps he was, but he still looked good and toned for the photo-shots........

MR.BILL

[Mantequilla]

Duran was never a good matchup with a legend with speed, which Hagler/Hearns/Benitez/Leonard had.


shut the fuck up.

[MAG1965]

The question is when did Duran make the statement that he had to drop 38 lbs???

Knowing Duran, I'm sure he put on a few pounds just a couple a week removed from the Minchillo fight......

......but if its the Duran of today talking, I'm sure just like any old timer, he's going to exaggerate and make the truth into a tale.:DTypical Duran excuses when losing to a great fighter. Question is why do people believe the nonsense.

[MAG1965]

shut the fuck up.Have respect. This is how you type on a message board when you do not like what someone is saying? I type what I believe and I type facts. I have never disrespected anyone on these boards and yet I give my opinion and I state facts.

[MRBILL]

Well, I can tell Duran was not happy when pitted against a mover with speed....... I'm sure Duran was most comfortable when he was up against a guy looking to trade and brawl with him..... Duran was able to chase a runner, but he hated doing it......

Now, in 1982, Benitez didn't run from Duran... NO! Benitez just was too quick, spry and reflexive at age 23 against the 31 year old Duran....... Also, Benitez looked bigger and better fit at 154 pounds in 1982 than Duran was at the time........ Basically, Benitez grew into the division, while Duran ate and drank himself to Jr. Middleweight.....

MR.BILL

[MRBILL]

As I stated earlier, I read an interview from circa--'83 in World Boxing magazine from an interview Duran conducted........ Duran stated he had to lose 38 pounds to make weight for Benitez.......

MR.BILL

[MAG1965]

Well, I can tell Duran was not happy when pitted against a mover with speed....... I'm sure Duran was most comfortable when he was up against a guy looking to trade and brawl with him..... Duran was able to chase a runner, but he hated doing it......

Now, in 1982, Benitez didn't run from Duran... NO! Benitez just was too quick, spry and reflexive at age 23 against the 31 year old Duran....... Also, Benitez looked bigger and better fit at 154 pounds in 1982 than Duran was at the time........ Basically, Benitez grew into the division, while Duran ate and drank himself to Jr. Middleweight.....

MR.BILLI agree with your post but about Duran eating and drinking himself into the division I am not too sure. He was weighting in at 151 or 152 in tuneup fights as early as 1978 when Benitez was leaving or entering the welterweight division. He was at 154 3 years before Benitez ever was. If he was not in shape that is his problem. Benitez was.

[MAG1965]

As I stated earlier, I read an interview from circa--'83 in World Boxing magazine from an interview Duran conducted........ Duran stated he had to lose 38 pounds to make weight for Benitez.......

MR.BILLYeah Duran stated it. And he stated for Leonard he was out of shape and his stomach hurt, and for Hearns another excuse. All the greats he lost to (the best fighters he ever fought) he had excuses for. The amazing thing is that people believe it. Had Hearns or Leonard or Hagler said they did not train no one would have cared. Duran gets special consideration because he was likable and had a great personality. And he did, but that should not affect the truth or facts.

[MRBILL]

I agree with your post but about Duran eating and drinking himself into the division I am not too sure. He was weighting in at 151 or 152 in tuneup fights as early as 1978 when Benitez was leaving or entering the welterweight division. He was at 154 3 years before Benitez ever was. If he was not in shape that is his problem. Benitez was.


I gotta check Duran's weights from 1979 to early 1980....... To my knowledge, Duran never fought heavier than 149 pounds at that juncture... I cannot recall if that was against 'Wellington Wheatly' or 'Zeferino Gonzalez.'

I know Duran weighed his career high (At the Time) in 1981 against Nino Gonzalez at 155 pounds.... But by then, Duran would refuse to ever fight below Jr. Middleweight ever again.....

MR.BILL:bbb:hat

Note:

Christ, Duran lost a 10 rounder against some other latin dude in 1999 and Duran weighed-in at 176 pounds....... He must've looked a porker....

[MRBILL]

Yeah Duran stated it. And he stated for Leonard he was out of shape and his stomach hurt, and for Hearns another excuse. All the greats he lost to (the best fighters he ever fought) he had excuses for. The amazing thing is that people believe it. Had Hearns or Leonard or Hagler said they did not train no one would have cared. Duran gets special consideration because he was likable and had a great personality. And he did, but that should not affect the truth or facts.


Duran was blimpy for the press conference for the 'Hearns' fight of 1984.... Duran and Hearns held a conference in March 1984 announcing the fight in Vegas for June..... Duran was already in training, but he claimed he was 178 pounds during the conference and in the process of losing weight....... Hearns looked lean--as usual.....

MR.BILL:bbb

[MAG1965]

Duran was blimpy for the press conference for the 'Hearns' fight of 1984.... Duran and Hearns held a conference in March 1984 announcing the fight in Vegas for June..... Duran was already in training, but he claimed he was 178 pounds during the conference and in the process of losing weight....... Hearns looked lean--as usual.....

MR.BILL:bbbHearns at the time walked around at 165-170. That was discipline and he really could not go up higher. When he fought Andries in 1987 he said he was eating more just to get up to the weight limit. He was not as big a guy natural as people want to make him seem. Just because he was 6-1, he was still a lean guy like you said. Duran could go up to plus 200. Duran always had excuses for the legends when he fought them. 3 months to get ready for a fight is pretty good. Duran said he was not in shape for Ray 2 or Benitez. I think the excuses in weight and training are a little exagerrated. If anything, if he did not train well for all the greats he fought, maybe he knew he would not win and had an excuse already set up just in case. I don't know. But why would this happen in all his fights vs. great fighters, but not when he fought Moore and Barkley? He was a smart guy and probably knew who he could beat and who he couldn't. He did land a good punch on Tommy so he had a chance, and he always had power. So who knows why he made up those excuses. Excuses are expected. Whenever a good fighter losses I always wait to see what excuses they will come up with. It is always there. Rarely does a fighter say he was beaten by a better fighter who was faster. That takes a lot of courage and honesty.

[MAG1965]

I gotta check Duran's weights from 1979 to early 1980....... To my knowledge, Duran never fought heavier than 149 pounds at that juncture... I cannot recall if that was against 'Wellington Wheatly' or 'Zeferino Gonzalez.'

I know Duran weighed his career high (At the Time) in 1981 against Nino Gonzalez at 155 pounds.... But by then, Duran would refuse to ever fight below Jr. Middleweight ever again.....

MR.BILL:bbb:hat

Note:

Christ, Duran lost a 10 rounder against some other latin dude in 1999 and Duran weighed-in at 176 pounds....... He must've looked a porker....I remember that fight. I was surprised that he lost. I forget the guys name. I always wondered how long Duran would have fought had he not had that car accident. He might have kept fighting a few more years. But he probably would have not have been fighting now. He is almost 59 year old now. When I thought Duran should not be fighting anymore was when he lost to Joppy in 3 rounds was it? I forgot the exact round, but Joppy would have been an easy fight for Duran 10 years before when he fought Barkley.

[MRBILL]

Duran weighed 176 for his '99 decision loss to Omar Gonzalez......:patsch:shock:

MR.BILL:yikes

[JohnThomas1]

Well, I can tell Duran was not happy when pitted against a mover with speed....... I'm sure Duran was most comfortable when he was up against a guy looking to trade and brawl with him..... Duran was able to chase a runner, but he hated doing it......

Now, in 1982, Benitez didn't run from Duran... NO! Benitez just was too quick, spry and reflexive at age 23 against the 31 year old Duran.......

This is some good stuff. Without getting too into it this Benitez still would have whupped the Duran that beat Moore.

[MRBILL]

This is some good stuff. Without getting too into it this Benitez still would have whupped the Duran that beat Moore.



Hmmmm.... Not sure there....... HBO's team had pointed out that Duran looked flat as early as round 2 with Benitez..... Sources say Duran was weak and over-trained in Jan. 1982.....

Later in '83, Duran looked like a tiger against Moore, who may've lacked technical skills, but was bigger and stronger than Duran in a physical sense....

MR.BILL

[arther1045]

Duran was blimpy for the press conference for the 'Hearns' fight of 1984.... Duran and Hearns held a conference in March 1984 announcing the fight in Vegas for June..... Duran was already in training, but he claimed he was 178 pounds during the conference and in the process of losing weight....... Hearns looked lean--as usual.....

MR.BILL:bbb


Does anyone have a picture of this?

[arther1045]

Hmmmm.... Not sure there....... HBO's team had pointed out that Duran looked flat as early as round 2 with Benitez..... Sources say Duran was weak and over-trained in Jan. 1982.....

Later in '83, Duran looked like a tiger against Moore, who may've lacked technical skills, but was bigger and stronger than Duran in a physical sense....

MR.BILL


I am a huge Duran fan but I don't think that Duran ever could beat the 154 Bentez of 1982. Duran always looked slow past 147. He4 looked slow against Moore..

[MAG1965]

Hmmmm.... Not sure there....... HBO's team had pointed out that Duran looked flat as early as round 2 with Benitez..... Sources say Duran was weak and over-trained in Jan. 1982.....

Later in '83, Duran looked like a tiger against Moore, who may've lacked technical skills, but was bigger and stronger than Duran in a physical sense....

MR.BILLFighters look flat when their opponent makes them look ineffective. Benitez was too quick. Sure Duran always looked like a tiger when he was not fighting Hearns or Benitez or Leonard. Had something to do with the opponent. I am surprised you guys do not realize this. You bought into the Duran was just motivated for Moore and Barkley stuff. Why would he just train for those guys and not the legends? Fact is he could not beat them. The excuses people buy for Duran are not bought for Hearns or Leonard. Fact is Duran was 1-5 against the legends of the 1980's.

[MRBILL]

Well, one thing is for certain.... Once Roberto Duran moved up to welterweight he had to give up some physical attributes such as, height and reach... Plus, aside from facing and beating Carlos Palomino in 1979 at welterweight, Roberto Duran was also the older man against his opponents from 1980 and onward to 2001.... I cannot think of Duran being younger than anyone he ever fought after 1979........ So, from 1981 to 2001, Duran basically continued his career at weights ranging between 154 to 168..... And, in truth, Roberto Duran really had no business fighting above 147 pounds...... However, he liked to eat and drink during his off time and go way up in weight, and so as the years and pounds mounted, getting down to weights under 150 pounds became more and more of a bitch for Duran.... Therfore he decided it was time to move up and hang out between 154 to 168 for the LAST 20 years of his career......... Incredible.....



MR.BILL

[MAG1965]

Well, one thing is for certain.... Once Roberto Duran moved up to welterweight he had to give up some physical attributes such as, height and reach... Plus, aside from facing and beating Carlos Palomino in 1979 at welterweight, Roberto Duran was also the older man against his opponents from 1980 and onward to 2001.... I cannot think of Duran being younger than anyone he ever fought after 1979........ So, from 1981 to 2001, Duran basically continued his career at weights ranging between 154 to 168..... And, in truth, Roberto Duran really had no business fighting above 147 pounds...... However, he liked to eat and drink during his off time and go way up in weight, and so as the years and pounds mounted, getting down to weights under 150 pounds became more and more of a bitch for Duran.... Therfore he decided it was time to move up and hang out between 154 to 168 for the LAST 20 years of his career......... Incredible.....



MR.BILLI don't think losing to all the legends he fought in the 1980's really incredible. Duran fought well and beat Moore and Barkley, but he had no trouble fighting at the higher weights - 147 and 154 and 160 were not hard for him to fight at. I give him credit for doing decent, but to say it was incredible? That is a stretch. Incredible would have been beating Benitez for his title and then beating Moore and unifying and beating Hearns. He lost to Benitez and Hearns. If you want to talk height and reach, then how did Qawi do so well at 175? Qawi's reach and height were below average, and he did exceptional. If Duran had no business fighting above 147 (when he fought at 154 as early as 78), then Hearns had no business at 175. Yet Hearns won more titles at 175 than at any other weight. I think Hearns beating Hill was incredible. Hill was undefeated and 10 title defenses.

[Mantequilla]

Barkley was just better than Tommy.

He was his father.

[MRBILL]

I don't think losing to all the legends he fought in the 1980's really incredible. Duran fought well and beat Moore and Barkley, but he had no trouble fighting at the higher weights - 147 and 154 and 160 were not hard for him to fight at. I give him credit for doing decent, but to say it was incredible? That is a stretch. Incredible would have been beating Benitez for his title and then beating Moore and unifying and beating Hearns. He lost to Benitez and Hearns. If you want to talk height and reach, then how did Qawi do so well at 175? Qawi's reach and height were below average, and he did exceptional. If Duran had no business fighting above 147 (when he fought at 154 as early as 78), then Hearns had no business at 175. Yet Hearns won more titles at 175 than at any other weight. I think Hearns beating Hill was incredible. Hill was undefeated and 10 title defenses.

Off topic..... Qawi was as wide as he was tall....... He was a tank......... Qawi at 175 pounds was lean and buffed; no fat........ Qawi would've been weak at 168 had that weight been there in the early 80s...... I thought Qawi looked fine and solid at 190 pounds, however, a little pudge was present there.... Still, he was in-shape between 175 and 190 pounds.....

Roberto Duran definately had more of a struggle at carrying weights of 154 to 168 against naturally larger dudes in the ring...... Duran's situation was TOTALLY different than that of Qawi's....

Point is, Qawi was still in his range and element between 175 to 190 pounds..... Qawi wasn't pushing it until he went to heavyweight to fight George Foreman, etc.....
:deal:thumbsup:hat

MR.BILL

[MAG1965]

Off topic..... Qawi was as wide as he was tall....... He was a tank......... Qawi at 175 pounds was lean and buffed; no fat........ Qawi would've been weak at 168 had that weight been there in the early 80s...... I thought Qawi looked fine and solid at 190 pounds, however, a little pudge was present there.... Still, he was in-shape between 175 and 190 pounds.....

Roberto Duran definately had more of a struggle at carrying weights of 154 to 168 against naturally larger dudes in the ring...... Duran's situation was TOTALLY different than that of Qawi's....

Point is, Qawi was still in his range and element between 175 to 190 pounds..... Qawi wasn't pushing it until he went to heavyweight to fight George Foreman, etc.....
:deal:thumbsup:hat

MR.BILLThe struggle of Duran to fight higher is not true. He had trouble getting weight off, but not to make the 154 or 160 weight classes. I am surprised that people do not see how Duran is being overrated. Not as an ATG but as a top 5-10 ATG. As someone else stated on another comment, Duran fought half of his career at weights higher than 135. Not really a guy who had trouble making weight. That is just another excuse. Hearns moved up from welterweight. So did Leonard. Benitez moved up from 140 and fought great at 154, even outclassing Duran and knocking out Hope. Duran gets excuses other fighters do not get. If every fighter got the excuses Duran got then no one would get credit for a win, the opponent could say he was out of shape or this was not a good matchup. What is the point of Duran ever fighting anyone in those years since if he lost he was naturally out of shape. The interesting thing is that he beat the mediocre guys and lost to the legends. That is the fact. That is what makes that argument unfair. Look at the Leonard fights. That explains it all. Leonard fights flat footed and Duran does well. When Ray does not fight flat footed in the second fight Duran cannot touch him and his jab is missing. Duran needed guys in range. If a guy was in Duran's range that guy was in trouble. But the legends of the 1980's Hearns/Benitez/Leonard did not get in range. And they won easily. Fact.

[MRBILL]

I'll say this, "Duran, Benitez, Leonard & Hearns" all used excuses at one point or another during their careers and losses.... The only guy who I cannot recall using an excuse was Marvin Hagler....

Benitez claimed he lost to SRL in '79 cuz he had only "3" days of training going into the fight...

Leonard claimed he lost to Duran in Montreal cuz he was determined to win but still green in experience... Later on, SRL said he was flat against Hearns in 1989 and that was why he struggled.....

Hearns and Manny Steward blamed weak legs for his 1985 loss to Hagler.... Hearns supposedly had his co-trainer rubbing his legs too hard / much prior to the opening bell.....

I know their is more to tell, but these are some "Key" complaints from these fighters of greatness.....

Note:

I only heard Hagler say he was robbed in Vegas in 1987 by the judges...... Personally, I scored it 6-5-1 over 12 rds for LEONARD!

And I felt Dwight M. Qawi could've gotten a draw with Holy in 1986 down in Georgia.... Holy and Qawi fought a classic Cruiserweight fight..... I think Holy got some home cooking there.....

MR.BILL

[Pachilles]

The thing is though Mr Bill, people on here take Duran's excuses as the word of God, and fanatically fire them out if Duran is so much as questioned.

[MRBILL]

Well, their are reasons as why Roberto Duran gets the "Red Carpet" treatment over 95% of all other athletes on the Planet.....

1. Duran is the GREATEST and most FAMOUS Latin / Spanish / Hispanic athlete of all time and played his sport as a pro for 34 years.......

Note:

I'm sorry, other greats like Pele and Roberto Clemente deserve credit and respect, but I still rate them below Duran.......

Roberto Duran is like a God in all of central and south America....... He is known and recognized in every country within that region.......

MR.BILL

[MAG1965]

I'll say this, "Duran, Benitez, Leonard & Hearns" all used excuses at one point or another during their careers and losses.... The only guy who I cannot recall using an excuse was Marvin Hagler....

Benitez claimed he lost to SRL in '79 cuz he had only "3" days of training going into the fight...

Leonard claimed he lost to Duran in Montreal cuz he was determined to win but still green in experience... Later on, SRL said he was flat against Hearns in 1989 and that was why he struggled.....

Hearns and Manny Steward blamed weak legs for his 1985 loss to Hagler.... Hearns supposedly had his co-trainer rubbing his legs too hard / much prior to the opening bell.....

I know their is more to tell, but these are some "Key" complaints from these fighters of greatness.....

Note:

I only heard Hagler say he was robbed in Vegas in 1987 by the judges...... Personally, I scored it 6-5-1 over 12 rds for LEONARD!

And I felt Dwight M. Qawi could've gotten a draw with Holy in 1986 down in Georgia.... Holy and Qawi fought a classic Cruiserweight fight..... I think Holy got some home cooking there.....

MR.BILLnice post. yeah I agree, but none of those excuses are really bought by people. Hearns lost to Hagler and no one thinks it was because his legs were weak. I always said Hearns lost the fight regardless of an excuse. The Leonard excuse was more of an explanation I thought, and a true one in light of the fact he proved in the rematch that if he moved Duran could not land his jab or punches cleanly. Benitez always claimed he never trained. Hagler had so much ego that he would have never said he was not 100 percent since that would show maybe he thought he performed bad enough to lose a decision. Also it was usually to Marvin's advantage against the greats since he was the one at the solid weight and they were all moving up in weight.

[MAG1965]

Well, their are reasons as why Roberto Duran gets the "Red Carpet" treatment over 95% of all other athletes on the Planet.....

1. Duran is the GREATEST and most FAMOUS Latin / Spanish / Hispanic athlete of all time and played his sport as a pro for 34 years.......

Note:

I'm sorry, other greats like Pele and Roberto Clemente deserve credit and respect, but I still rate them below Duran.......

Roberto Duran is like a God in all of central and south America....... He is known and recognized in every country within that region.......

MR.BILLDuran was a great fighter no doubt. The only thing I argued against was his ranking 5-10.

[MRBILL]

I do believe that Tommy Hearns busted his knuckle on Hagler's dome in round 1 back in 1985....... It has been pointed out that Hearns tagged Hagler good and hard in the opening moments of round 1..... Hearns said he popped a knuckle in his right paw in the process, and by the rounds end, Hearns was hitting Hagler with rights by using the upper edge of his gloves padding........

I have reviewed the tape.... I see Hearns still throwing and landing his right, but he did seem protective of the right paw all through until his doom in round 3....

MR.BILL

[MAG1965]

I do believe that Tommy Hearns busted his knuckle on Hagler's dome in round 1 back in 1985....... It has been pointed out that Hearns tagged Hagler good and hard in the opening moments of round 1..... Hearns said he popped a knuckle in his right paw in the process, and by the rounds end, Hearns was hitting Hagler with rights by using the upper edge of his gloves padding........

I have reviewed the tape.... I see Hearns still throwing and landing his right, but he did seem protective of the right paw all through until his doom in round 3....

MR.BILLyeah it changed at the end of the round. Tommy was throwing more arm punches. He landed some good punches when Marvin had him against the ropes at the end of the round, but I think he felt desperate to land clean even though his hand was broken since Marvin was coming on very strong, so he tried to throw some good punches. Marvin's strategy was good. Both guys threw wild punches, but since Hearns punched so hard with that right hand, a punch which was a little wild and which hit Marvin's head a little awkwardly was enough to break the hand. I think I know the punch which did it. It is the same punch which made Marvin wobble and back off, and then Hearns tried to swing again, but Marvin regrouped. The cut to Marvin's forehead I think was made when Tommy being tired, would sometimes breathe out of his mouth and his mouthpiece was coming out of his mouth, and Marvin at I think the 1:21 mark rubbed his head against it and it cut his forehead. You can actually see the moment it happens.

[MRBILL]

yeah it changed at the end of the round. Tommy was throwing more arm punches. He landed some good punches when Marvin had him against the ropes at the end of the round, but I think he felt desperate to land clean even though his hand was broken since Marvin was coming on very strong, so he tried to throw some good punches. Marvin's strategy was good. Both guys threw wild punches, but since Hearns punched so hard with that right hand, a punch which was a little wild and which hit Marvin's head a little awkwardly was enough to break the hand. I think I know the punch which did it. It is the same punch which made Marvin wobble and back off, and then Hearns tried to swing again, but Marvin regrouped. The cut to Marvin's forehead I think was made when Tommy being tired, would sometimes breathe out of his mouth and his mouthpiece was coming out of his mouth, and Marvin at I think the 1:21 mark rubbed his head against it and it cut his forehead. You can actually see the moment it happens.

That fight of '85 is a classic for the ages......... I love to pop the tape in when with friends when I'm buzzin' hard.......... A lovely trip down Memory Lane...... Bars and Pubs all across the nation love to show that fight from time-to-time........ Classic......
:thumbsup

MR.BILL

[MAG1965]

That fight of '85 is a classic for the ages......... I love to pop the tape in when with friends when I'm buzzin' hard.......... A lovely trip down Memory Lane...... Bars and Pubs all across the nation love to show that fight from time-to-time........ Classic......
:thumbsup

MR.BILLI think that fight was all about Tommy and Marvin not liking each other at the time. At the time I was a little upset with Hearns when he was brawling, but later I figured it went down as a great fight so it was ok. I saw that fight in scrambled mode all messed up on what was called Select TV-but I did not have the PPV so I watched it on UHF scrambled up, and I watched the TV and then would listen to KFWB between rounds and they would say "big fight in vegas lets go to rory markus at ringside" And I still remember on the scrambled mode I could see Hearns throwing right hand after right hand and Hagler walking forward. Rory Markus said something like "With this kind of action in round one this fight isn't going very long".

[MRBILL]

I think that fight was all about Tommy and Marvin not liking each other at the time. At the time I was a little upset with Hearns when he was brawling, but later I figured it went down as a great fight so it was ok. I saw that fight in scrambled mode all messed up on what was called Select TV-but I did not have the PPV so I watched it on UHF scrambled up, and I watched the TV and then would listen to KFWB between rounds and they would say "big fight in vegas lets go to rory markus at ringside" And I still remember on the scrambled mode I could see Hearns throwing right hand after right hand and Hagler walking forward. Rory Markus said something like "With this kind of action in round one this fight isn't going very long".


I'm from Los Angeles....... I know all about Selectv and ONTV back in the late 70s thru middle 80s... Do you remember the "Z" Channel??? All that shit is long gone now....... I saw "Hagler-Hearns" on a pirate ONTV box in 1985....... I was living in Fountain Valley right next to Huntington Beach, CA... That's no shit, man........

MR.BILL:deal

[MAG1965]

I'm from Los Angeles....... I know all about Selectv and ONTV back in the late 70s thru middle 80s... Do you remember the "Z" Channel??? All that shit is long gone now....... I saw "Hagler-Hearns" on a pirate ONTV box in 1985....... I was living in Fountain Valley right next to Huntington Beach, CA... That's no shit, man........

MR.BILL:dealyeah I remember Z channel. I saw ON TV with a pirate box also and that is how I saw Leonard/Hearns in 1981. But by 1985 I didn't have that. So I had to watch a scrambled picture on UHF and listen to between ring reports. I did that for a few fights at the time. Hagler/Duran, Hagler/Hearns, Hagler/Mugabi and Hearns/Shuler and Leonard/Hagler. It became a routine after awhile. I even saw Hearns/Roldan the same way in 1987, and even later Hearns/Barkley and Duran/Barkley. So I think the last time I saw the scrambled mode was actually 1989 for Mancini/Camacho or Duran/Barkley. I know where Fountain Valley is. I am from Southern California, and I lived in that area at that time. By the way, ON TV was the channel which showed the Leonard/Duran fights in 1980.. They had all the hype and biographies on both guys. I was actually watching the scrambled mode as Duran turned his back on Ray and Ray jumped up on the ropes. At that time we had regular ON TV but not the pirate box. We got the pirate box right before Hearns/Leonard 1 and then had that just a few years if not shorter.

[MRBILL]

yeah I remember Z channel. I saw ON TV with a pirate box also and that is how I saw Leonard/Hearns in 1981. But by 1985 I didn't have that. So I had to watch a scrambled picture on UHF and listen to between ring reports. I did that for a few fights at the time. Hagler/Duran, Hagler/Hearns, Hagler/Mugabi and Hearns/Shuler and Leonard/Hagler. It became a routine after awhile. I even saw Hearns/Roldan the same way in 1987, and even later Hearns/Barkley and Duran/Barkley. So I think the last time I saw the scrambled mode was actually 1989 for Mancini/Camacho or Duran/Barkley. I know where Fountain Valley is. I am from Southern California, and I lived in that area at that time. By the way, ON TV was the channel which showed the Leonard/Duran fights in 1980.. They had all the hype and biographies on both guys. I was actually watching the scrambled mode as Duran turned his back on Ray and Ray jumped up on the ropes. At that time we had regular ON TV but not the pirate box. We got the pirate box right before Hearns/Leonard 1 and then had that just a few years if not shorter.

Jesus, I remember watching UHF channel 52 back in the early 70s as a kid growing up.... UHF would show "Speed Racer, The Three Stooges, Our Gang, The Adams Family and Kimba cartoons." That was many moons ago...

MR.BILL

[ricardoparker93]

The win over Duran would also prove to be Benitez' last meaningful win of his career......... Losses to "Hearns & Hamsho" would soon follow...... The '87 KO loss to Matt Hilton on TV sealed the coffin shut on Benitez' career....
:patsch

MR.BILL

How does that change the fact that he beat Duran convincingly?

[MRBILL]

How does that change the fact that he beat Duran convincingly?


It doesn't, nor was that the point of that remark..... Point was, it was an end of an era for Benitez...... W.B. was never a serious player ever again.... Sure, Benitez was given several more chances in the middle 80s, but he choked on them all........

MR.BILL:deal