Donald Curry vs. Roberto Duran at 154

[KOTF]

A lot of people would favor Duran in a WW scrap, but how does this fight play out at 154? The Curry of the McCallum bout vs. the Duran of the Moore fight.

[IntentionalButt]

The thread title made me immediately think welterweight and therefore made me quite nervous as a Curry fan...

At light middle this is a comfortable Curry points win. Even the Duran that swarmed Cuevas barely lays a hand on the Curry that was outboxing McCallum.

[anarci]

The thread title made me immediately think welterweight and therefore made me quite nervous as a Curry fan...

At light middle this is a comfortable Curry points win. Even the Duran that swarmed Cuevas barely lays a hand on the Curry that was outboxing McCallum.:nono:nono Im a big Curry fan too but he slipped a notch when he moved up to JM, Duran did too but bottom line Duran is the greater fighter.

What about the Duran that beat Moore and almost beat Hagler at even a heavier weight.:huh

Curry would take an early lead but by the5th Duran would start doing very well hed start punishing Curry and finish him off around the 9th.

[Stevie G]

I think Roberto would win. He'd have to be in the same mindset and shape he was for the Moore and Cuevas fights. Then he'd stop Curry,who was never the same post Honeyghan.

[natonic]

I'd give Curry a better chance at Welterweight, though I'd still favor Duran. Curry's durabillity seemed to falter significantly as he moved up. He wanted to lean in and infight too much also. But idea against Duran. I'd take a fit Duran (vs Moore, Cuevas) by late stoppage.

[Flea Man]

Duran beats him at either weight, either the Montreal or Moore versions would beat the best 147 Curry, or, as is being mooted in this fight, the Curry that fought McCallum.

Duran would catch up to him, though I doubt it'd be as stupendous as what McCallum laid him out with.

[PowerPuncher]

I don't like Duran against a fast boxer mover type as a whole above 135. He beat Leonard after angering Leonard into fighting the wrong fight in a flat footed brawl instead of doing what he does best. When Leonard used the right strategy he won, insert Duran excuse.When he faced other fast boxer movers in Laing and Benitez he got clearly outboxed, insert excuse. Curry had all of Leonards speed and movement but wasnt as durable, he just wouldnt need to be as long as he uses his movement and speed. Curry clearly wasnt the same fighter at 154, but he still had those tools against a Duran who was slower. you could argue Curry doesnt like being forced to fight and Duran would make him, but Laing didnt like to be forced to fight either, the question is if Duran could force Curry to fight, I dont think he could

Curry UD

[bodhi]

I don't like Duran against a fast boxer mover type as a whole above 135. He beat Leonard after angering Leonard into fighting the wrong fight in a flat footed brawl instead of doing what he does best. When Leonard used the right strategy he won, insert Duran excuse.When he faced other fast boxer movers in Laing and Benitez he got clearly outboxed, insert excuse. Curry had all of Leonards speed and movement but wasnt as durable, he just wouldnt need to be as long as he uses his movement and speed. Curry clearly wasnt the same fighter at 154, but he still had those tools against a Duran who was slower. you could argue Curry doesnt like being forced to fight and Duran would make him, but Laing didnt like to be forced to fight either, the question is if Duran could force Curry to fight, I dont think he could

Curry UD



MYTHS
Duran’s strategy was drilled into him. He was instructed to be elusive against the jab, close the distance, crowd Leonard, and hammer the body. Leonard’s aggressive strategy was not expected. It made things more not less difficult to cope with for precisely the reasons that Dundee had alluded to –good little guys don’t beat good big guys. “In this fight, Duran’s not the puncher,” he added, “my guy is.” Their respective knockout percentages over their previous five fights confirmed this: Duran’s was 40%, Leonard’s was 100%. Leonard stated that he planned on “standing and fighting more than expected.” “They all think I’m going to run. I’m not,” he said to New York Magazine, “I’m not changing my style at all… he’ll be beaten to the punch…those are the facts,” he continued, “What’s going to beat Roberto Duran is Sugar Ray Leonard.”

Dundee substantiated this in his autobiography. Leonard’s strategy became certain from the moment that he watched the films and deconstructed Duran’s style. Duran, he said, was a “heel-to-toe guy. He takes two steps to get to you. So the idea was not to give him those two steps, not to move too far away because the more distance you gave him, the more effective he was. What you can’t do in the face of Duran’s aggression was run from it, because then he picks up momentum. My guy wasn’t going to run from him.”

So there you have it.

Leonard’s strategy in Montreal was deliberate, and sound. After the fight, Dundee and Leonard revised history and a willing press has gone along with it ever since. We’ve been spoon-fed a fable that has long since crystallized into orthodox boxing lore. It is the archetypal image of the Latin bully who “tricked” the All-American Hero into an alley fight, and it sprang from the idea that Leonard “did not fight his fight” because Duran challenged his masculinity. The problem is that it is at complete odds with statements made by Leonard and Dundee about Leonard’s clear physical advantages and the strategy that would be formed around those advantages. It contradicts Dundee’s earlier statements about Duran’s high level of skill and it contradicts statements that both had made immediately after the bout –before they had time to think about posterity: “You’ve got to give credit to Duran,” Dundee told journalists, “he makes you fight his fight.” When asked why he fought Duran’s fight, Leonard said he had “no alternative.”

source ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

[PowerPuncher]

Leonard choose to fight the wrong fight and go toe-toe from the start, there's no myth there, the commentators picked up on that and if you can't see that your blind. Whether Dundee/leonard thought beforehand that it was a reat strategy is irrelevant because it was the wrong game plan. Duran is a great fighter, with great skills, but Leonard fought Durans fight, no doubt, when he boxed clever he won with ease

Leonards strategy was completely different in the rematch, focusing on lateral movement and Duran couldnt land and was completely ineffective. Oh but ofcourse Duran metamorphasised into a lump of lard just like everytime a quality boxer outboxed him.

[bodhi]

Leonard choose to fight the wrong fight and go toe-toe from the start, there's no myth there, the commentators picked up on that and if you can't see that your blind. Whether Dundee/leonard thought beforehand that it was a reat strategy is irrelevant because it was the wrong game plan. Duran is a great fighter, with great skills, but Leonard fought Durans fight, no doubt, when he boxed clever he won with ease

Leonards strategy was completely different in the rematch, focusing on lateral movement and Duran couldnt land and was completely ineffective. Oh but ofcourse Duran metamorphasised into a lump of lard just like everytime a quality boxer outboxed him.

And you totally ignore that Duran was far from his best in the rematch. Even Leonard himself admits that they made the rematch as soon as possible because they knew Duran wouldn´t have enough time to get in shape for the rematch. I think it´s in Duran´s beyond the glory.

The second Duran-Leonard fight is not an indication how Duran would do against a mover above 135.

[The Morlocks]

A lot of people would favor Duran in a WW scrap, but how does this fight play out at 154? The Curry of the McCallum bout vs. the Duran of the Moore fight.
The easiest pick of all. Duran by ko. Curry did NOTHING in the division worth noting and was really pretty much used up and adrift in boxing because by that time he was leaving or had left his trainer Gorman. He went w/ Muhammad and his career rightfully shot down the toilet. No loyalty and also no victory over the GREAT DURAN:viking

[PowerPuncher]

And you totally ignore that Duran was far from his best in the rematch. Even Leonard himself admits that they made the rematch as soon as possible because they knew Duran wouldn´t have enough time to get in shape for the rematch. I think it´s in Duran´s beyond the glory.

The second Duran-Leonard fight is not an indication how Duran would do against a mover above 135.

THATS THE REAL MYTH. Duran was confident beforehand he'd win by KO second time around. He might not have been in the same tip top shape, and got out of shape in between fights, but he always did that and was in shape by fight night.

I dont buy the same brand of bullshit that states Duran was out of shape everytime he fought a fast handed mover like Leonard 2/3/Benitez/Laing/Hearns. And everytime he fought a stationary object leonard 1/barkley/moore/hagler/cuevas he was in shape. Duran couldnt handle movement and fast hands above 135 and all he has are excuses against such foes

Leonards lateral movement, angles, feinting was the real difference between the 2 fights. Benitez/Laing used similar strategies and Duran couldnt beat them 2, but ofcourse he was out of shape then too right?

[teeto]

Curry has a very good style here imo, abiut as good as you could hope for for an in shape Duran. The only thing is that what looks good on paper isn't always good, the big question in my mind is can Duran break Curry's will, he does that and he wins imo. Very possible the way i see it.

[teeto]

I'm not comparing Curry to Leonard in my styles match up analysis by the way. I reckon Curry has a good style because he was good technically and would be able to box (not moving excessively side to side) and throw combos and jabs on Duran coming in, somewhat similar to Dejesus in that sole regard. He's not going to start running round the ring pulling silly faces and trying to amuse the crowd, so there's no quitting in this one. Like i said, Duran might just be able to impose himself due to him being one of the very most effective at doing so in history, because of his assets. Like i said also, what's on paper doesn't mean deal.

[Olu G. Rotimi]

I love both guys is the first thing I must confess. I don't think either was at their best at 155 though they won the world title with some notable victories particularly Duran against Davey Moore(a clear example of a guy winning the world title far to early and ruined).

Duran in my opinion is the 3rd greatest fighter in the history of this sport pound for pound. Don Curry the Lone Star Cobra was a perfect complete fighting machine at Welterweight and a truly great fighter unfortunately for a painfully short time. Technically these guys had everything. Curry had the tools tio beat Duran but whether he would be able to execute it is another matter. Curry could basically outbox and outfight anyone at his peak a beautiful boxer to watch. However get into a battle on the inside with Duran then you lose even Hagler had to box to win. Even pressed will go for Duran as Curry's vulnerabilities were on show at 155 pounds. Many yaers ago when Curry was asked what went wrong he said that while people said he was pound for pound the greatest he just nevber saw himself in that light and maybe therein lay the problems.

[teeto]

Shit i've just seen that the fight is at 154!

My comments were relating to a fight at 147.

[The Morlocks]

THATS THE REAL MYTH. Duran was confident beforehand he'd win by KO second time around. He might not have been in the same tip top shape, and got out of shape in between fights, but he always did that and was in shape by fight night.

I dont buy the same brand of bullshit that states Duran was out of shape everytime he fought a fast handed mover like Leonard 2/3/Benitez/Laing/Hearns. And everytime he fought a stationary object leonard 1/barkley/moore/hagler/cuevas he was in shape. Duran couldnt handle movement and fast hands above 135 and all he has are excuses against such foes

Leonards lateral movement, angles, feinting was the real difference between the 2 fights. Benitez/Laing used similar strategies and Duran couldnt beat them 2, but ofcourse he was out of shape then too right?
The fact of the matter is though that even w/ Leo waiting for Duran to get out of shape and not enough time to get back in (He took diarettics and any moron can see the difference in his body from June 20 and Nov. 25. Palomino said when he saw Duran take off his robe and saw the lack of condition on the 25th, he knew he would lose) ray STILL was not hurting Duran or even really hitting him much. The fight was no blowout. The cards were close. Leonard did NO physical damage. He was just frustrating him and not really landing many blows. :viking:dunnowha:And even Ray HIMSELF said that he gave Duran enough time to get out of shape and not enough time time to get back in. He said he though it was "CLEVER". I call it cowardess and shit like that and his refusal to have an even deck in later fights is why Ray's public image is so shitty right now. Plus people found him by the end to be the phony he was.

[IntentionalButt]

I'd disagree that simply moving up automatically diminished Curry. He was poised to be a big presence at 154 before he ran into a shotgun blast courtesy of Monster Mike. Duran was made to look like a killer in two consecutive outings at the weight, but not against Donald Currys. Remember, McCallum didn't bully and beat down Curry (far, far from it) - he patiently waited for a spot to time a perfect counterpunch - that is NOT Duran's game at any point of his career.

[PowerPuncher]

The fact of the matter is though that even w/ Leo waiting for Duran to get out of shape and not enough time to get back in (He took diarettics and any moron can see the difference in his body from June 20 and Nov. 25. Palomino said when he saw Duran take off his robe and saw the lack of condition on the 25th, he knew he would lose) ray STILL was not hurting Duran or even really hitting him much. The fight was no blowout. The cards were close. Leonard did NO physical damage. He was just frustrating him and not really landing many blows. :viking:dunnowha:And even Ray HIMSELF said that he gave Duran enough time to get out of shape and not enough time time to get back in. He said he though it was "CLEVER". I call it cowardess and shit like that and his refusal to have an even deck in later fights is why Ray's public image is so shitty right now. Plus people found him by the end to be the phony he was.

"EVEN WITH LEONARD WAITING FOR DURAN TO GET OUT OF SHAPE" - Yes Leonard new Duran was going to turn into a bloater and sinisterly waited until he was fat enough, do the Durantards really believe the shit they spout?

In reality leonard wasnt keen on a rematch after he took a pasting and accepted 1 when his manager convinced him Duran was out of shape, however Durans weight was always up and down, the Leonard fight wasnt the first time he had a beer and fried food. Duran still trained his ass off for the rematch, duiretics or not, Duran was always a fan of Diuretics anyway, Ive used them myself they dont suddenly make you a zombie

And as for the scorecards being close, they were but they shouldnt have been, Duran was getting outboxed for the majority of the fight and Leonard started to humiliate him.

[gooners!!]

I could see Duran getting outboxed if Curry kept him in centre ring on the end of his punches. I think Duran would have to get in close, problem i see with this is that Duran had a tendency to come in straight when he attacked and Curry's best punch was a counter left hook that he nailed many people with, most notably McCrory.


Curry was a quick, poised fighter with an excellent long range game so i definetly dont see Duran having success from long range he would have to bum rush Curry, which i feel was Curry's Achilles heel, he was open to overhand rights and relentless aggression imo, however its like i said it can also be very dangerous to close the distance on Curry, wrecklessly anyway.

Could go either way but i guess you would have to go with Duran because he was more accomplished.

[bodhi]

"EVEN WITH LEONARD WAITING FOR DURAN TO GET OUT OF SHAPE" - Yes Leonard new Duran was going to turn into a bloater and sinisterly waited until he was fat enough, do the Durantards really believe the shit they spout?

In reality leonard wasnt keen on a rematch after he took a pasting and accepted 1 when his manager convinced him Duran was out of shape, however Durans weight was always up and down, the Leonard fight wasnt the first time he had a beer and fried food. Duran still trained his ass off for the rematch, duiretics or not, Duran was always a fan of Diuretics anyway, Ive used them myself they dont suddenly make you a zombie

And as for the scorecards being close, they were but they shouldnt have been, Duran was getting outboxed for the majority of the fight and Leonard started to humiliate him.


Leonard himself admitted that but yeah just ignore it and stick to your agenda. :-(

[PowerPuncher]

Leonard himself admitted that but yeah just ignore it and stick to your agenda. :-(

He said it, probably in an off the cuff the remark, didnt mean its as great a factor or influential as you Durantards make it to be

[MRBILL]

A lot of people would favor Duran in a WW scrap, but how does this fight play out at 154? The Curry of the McCallum bout vs. the Duran of the Moore fight.

Curry never really had it after his '86 loss to Lloyd Honeyghan at 147...... Curry went to hell rather quickly.... I even thought Curry looked lousy in beating Giafranco Rosi in '88 for the title there at 154 pounds....... After 1986, Curry proved to be shot to hell.......

Duran was an enigma after 1980 and 147 pounds...... In truth, Duran was never the same after New Orleans / SRL....... An end of an era.......... BUT! When motivated and well-tuned, Duran was still able to kick ass pretty good up until 1995---circa........

Duran of 1983 beats the piss outta Curry of 1987 at 154 pounds.......:hat

MR.BILL

[Flea Man]

PowerPuncher needs to read StoneHands recent Duran article that completely blows the 'Leonard was drawn into the wrong fight' myth.

[teeto]

We're not on the Leonard Duran thing again are we.

For this and more see our million posts of yesteryear.

[PowerPuncher]

PowerPuncher needs to read StoneHands recent Duran article that completely blows the 'Leonard was drawn into the wrong fight' myth.

Yes because someone called 'stonehands' isn't going to have a natural bias.

Bottom line Leonard on tiptoes beats any Duran 10 times out of 10 ;)

[teeto]

I can't be arsed. You know me.

[Caponecartels]

I can't be arsed. You know me.

:lol:

[teeto]

:lol:

:lol::D:good

[Caponecartels]

I met him & spoken with him:smoke you hav'nt:deal

Hey, do you know if Duran has any tours lined up?
I'd love to meet him and chat.

[Gesta]

Leonard choose to fight the wrong fight and go toe-toe from the start, there's no myth there, the commentators picked up on that and if you can't see that your blind. Whether Dundee/leonard thought beforehand that it was a reat strategy is irrelevant because it was the wrong game plan. Duran is a great fighter, with great skills, but Leonard fought Durans fight, no doubt, when he boxed clever he won with ease

Leonards strategy was completely different in the rematch, focusing on lateral movement and Duran couldnt land and was completely ineffective. Oh but ofcourse Duran metamorphasised into a lump of lard just like everytime a quality boxer outboxed him.

Yes, by waiting till Duran was out of shape.:good

[Mantequilla]

Incidentally Benitez and Laing both fought mostly quite flat footed fights against Duran and beat him to the punch.I'd question anyone saying they won with mobile boxing having actually seen the bouts.

[gooners!!]

Incidentally Benitez and Laing both fought mostly quite flat footed fights against Duran and beat him to the punch.I'd question anyone saying they won with mobile boxing having actually seen the bouts.I tend to agree.

I had a convo with someone who said in not so many words that because Kalambay beat McCallum that its concievable that Benitez could beat him the same way, now whether you think that to be that case or not is irrelevant, what i tried to explain is that Benitez did not use the ring like Kalambay, Benitez is a guy that uses tight little turns and fights more from mid range where as Kalambay is a guy that actually uses his legs and gets around the ring.

[MRBILL]

Incidentally Benitez and Laing both fought mostly quite flat footed fights against Duran and beat him to the punch.I'd question anyone saying they won with mobile boxing having actually seen the bouts.


Hmmmm... Benitez used slick upper body / head movement to frustrate Duran and W.B. owned better speed at 154 to outbox Duran on the cards, while Laing did run early on before listening to Mick Duff's instructions to begin settling down and start to punch Duran back...... I have both bouts on file.........

MR.BILL:deal

[Caponecartels]

Just today my mate asked that, I'am going to contact Martin Devlin of "Fighting Talk" Promotions to see if he or any others are bringing him over this year as i'd like to bring him down South here in Bournemouth, he's been to London obviously but not this way down. If the £££ numbers crunch correctly i'll put a show on here, what a fuckin dream come true that would be:happy

Martin has had him over about 4 times now but he warned me when i enquired about the cost a few years back that he said i'd better have a good insurence policy that covers Hotel Damage:yikes:yikes:yikes as Roberto tends to get a bit lively sometimes:scaredas:


I'd love to see if he would come to the states.
Particularly D.C. :yep

[Sardu]

Only the Duran of June 16th, 1983 would have had a good chance against Curry at this weight. Duran could be brilliant (Moore, Cuevas) or lackluster (Benitez, Hearns) at 154lbs. Curry was a brilliant fighter with both great relexes and great power. In most instances I like Curry in this one.

[MAG1965]

Roberto would stop Curry in round 8 or 9 I would think. Duran had trouble with speed guys like Hearns and Benitez at 154. Donald was fast, but the way he kept his feet wide apart meant he would be too much of a sitting target for Roberto.

[MAG1965]

Only the Duran of June 16th, 1983 would have had a good chance against Curry at this weight. Duran could be brilliant (Moore, Cuevas) or lackluster (Benitez, Hearns) at 154lbs. Curry was a brilliant fighter with both great relexes and great power. In most instances I like Curry in this one.Duran's lackluster and brilliant fights are explained by his fans as his choice since they say he didn't train for the second Leonard/Benitez/Hearns fights. 3 great fighters he didn't train. Yet he trained for Moore. They say he didn't train when he was lackluster and brilliant when he wanted to be. Duran did not train for two ATG fighters who held world championship belts Benitez and Hearns. but he trained for a washed up Cueves and a very inexperienced Moore which is totally ridiculous to even think. The lackluster part had to do with the quality of his opposition. Look at Duran's resume. He beat Moore and Barkley for his 154 and 160 titles, not Hearns/Benitez/Hagler whom he fought and lost to (easily) for titles at the same weights.

[bodhi]

Duran's lackluster and brilliant fights are explained by his fans as his choice since they say he didn't train for the second Leonard/Benitez/Hearns fights. 3 great fighters he didn't train. Yet he trained for Moore. They say he didn't train when he was lackluster and brilliant when he wanted to be. Duran did not train for two ATG fighters who held world championship belts Benitez and Hearns. but he trained for a washed up Cueves and a very inexperienced Moore which is totally ridiculous to even think. The lackluster part had to do with the quality of his opposition. Look at Duran's resume. He beat Moore and Barkley for his 154 and 160 titles, not Hearns/Benitez/Hagler whom he fought and lost to (easily) for titles at the same weights.

I never excuse Duran against Benitez (who did train even less than Duran) or Hearns (he would always have lost that one). But I excuse him for the Leonard rematch since Leonard himself admitted his tactics.

[IntentionalButt]

Having a pretty objective view of Manos de Piedra myself, the hot & cold theory sticks IMO. As for whether it was training and not some other external (or internal factor) powering the rollercoaster, don't really care to speculate - as it would be just that, speculation. He was certainly a box of chocolates at the higher weights, though.

[Titan1]

Duran's durability would be the key here.At 154, Curry was a lesser version of himself at 147, and even there he was floored.Duran by eighth or ninth round stoppage.

[ChrisPontius]

I don't like Duran against a fast boxer mover type as a whole above 135. He beat Leonard after angering Leonard into fighting the wrong fight in a flat footed brawl instead of doing what he does best. When Leonard used the right strategy he won, insert Duran excuse.When he faced other fast boxer movers in Laing and Benitez he got clearly outboxed, insert excuse. Curry had all of Leonards speed and movement but wasnt as durable, he just wouldnt need to be as long as he uses his movement and speed. Curry clearly wasnt the same fighter at 154, but he still had those tools against a Duran who was slower. you could argue Curry doesnt like being forced to fight and Duran would make him, but Laing didnt like to be forced to fight either, the question is if Duran could force Curry to fight, I dont think he could

Curry UD

Gotta agree with this, although my view is a bit more nuanced. Curry was no pushover, and combined with his natural size advantage, i think he would beat Duran.

[frankenfrank]

I don't like Duran against a fast boxer mover type as a whole above 135. He beat Leonard after angering Leonard into fighting the wrong fight in a flat footed brawl instead of doing what he does best. When Leonard used the right strategy he won, insert Duran excuse.When he faced other fast boxer movers in Laing and Benitez he got clearly outboxed, insert excuse. Curry had all of Leonards speed and movement but wasnt as durable, he just wouldnt need to be as long as he uses his movement and speed. Curry clearly wasnt the same fighter at 154, but he still had those tools against a Duran who was slower. you could argue Curry doesnt like being forced to fight and Duran would make him, but Laing didnt like to be forced to fight either, the question is if Duran could force Curry to fight, I dont think he could

Curry UD
from the little i saw of curry (mccallum , honeyghan , maybe another one)
he is more willing to fight than leonard and thus won't need to be forced to fight. he willingly fights. i think he will not choose leonard's best style against duran simply for being himslef. and if leonard fought with duran curry certainly will. so maybe i voted wrong when i voted curry on points.
but i think that a prime curry fighting at 154 against duran whom is also above his optimal weight does stand a chance.

[frankenfrank]

Duran's durability would be the key here.At 154, Curry was a lesser version of himself at 147, and even there he was floored.Duran by eighth or ninth round stoppage.
what floored ? honeyghan was a ramming ram. worse than hopkins and holyfield combined in this aspect.