Harry Greb vs. Joe Calzaghe

[Superheavyweight]

Greb KO 6

[brooklyn1550]

Harry Greb by decision

[RAMPAGE0017]

This is laughable....


Calzaghe vaporizes Greb in 1.

[China_hand_Joe]

Calzaghe TKO.

Greb not liking his indroduction to the years 2000 and whatever.

Calzaghe as strong, faster and more skilled.

[Amsterdam]

This is laughable....


Calzaghe vaporizes Greb in 1.

Exactly. This is a joke.

[cross_trainer]

Exactly. This is a joke.

I agree, but you have the wrong punchline.

Greb would defeat Calzaghe.

[Fedor Em]

I agree, but you've misread the punchline.

Greb would defeat Calzaghe.

Greb is probally the greatest fighter at this weight ever. Even better than Jones based on his resmue. He probally tears Calzaghe to pieces with constant pressure and great infighting but Joe would get the better of the exchanges on the outside with his speed.

Greb UD 12 or 15.

[Sai]

All this Greb shit is pretty retarded. Its like its some geekdom badge amongst boxing fans: If you talk about him then its obvious proof that you know loads about boxing...

You cannot talk about how good a boxer was when there is no footage of him in an actual fight. You cant compare someone from a totally different era against a modern fighter. ITs just retarded.

[cross_trainer]

All this Greb shit is pretty retarded. Its like its some geekdom badge amongst boxing fans: If you talk about him then its obvious proof that you know loads about boxing...

You cannot talk about how good a boxer was when there is no footage of him in an actual fight. You cant compare someone from a totally different era against a modern fighter. ITs just retarded.

Well, considering somebody's made a fantasy fight thread, we should give a prediction of SOME kind based on evidence, wouldn't you agree?

[Fedor Em]

All this Greb shit is pretty retarded. Its like its some geekdom badge amongst boxing fans: If you talk about him then its obvious proof that you know loads about boxing...

You cannot talk about how good a boxer was when there is no footage of him in an actual fight. You cant compare someone from a totally different era against a modern fighter. ITs just retarded.

No, all we have to go off of is his resmue, and his may be the best ever. Also what people have wrote about him that he was an in your face pressure fighter that threw loads of punches. We know he beat Tunney, we know he beat Flowers, Walker, Rosenbloom(and about 5 other hall of famers), and legit good 195 lb fighters. We know he had a great chin (stopped once in over 300 fights) and we know he didn't have explosive 1 punch KO power(only about 50 of his 250 some odd wins were by KO)

The thread was started and we have to go off what we know. Also forums would get lame if you didn't talk about greats from different eras and the "what ifs" of boxing.

[Sai]

Well, we've seen footage of guys he's beaten, and he has THE best resume in the history of boxing, over ATG's from MW to HW, and from what we've heard of him and his style, and seen of his opponents that he thrashed, we can pretty easily analyze him.

You can possibly compare him to people from his day of which there is no visual evidence based on resume, but any more is just not valid. He beat x who beat x who beat x who beat x is not valid logic. Boxing has changed so much since Greb was fighting and with no footage of him actually fighting (all ive seen is some sparring at like 1/4 speed and thats apparently possibly not even him) you cannot legitimately compare him to anyone modern.

[cross_trainer]

You can possibly compare him to people from his day of which there is no visual evidence based on resume, but any more is just not valid. He beat x who beat x who beat x who beat x is not valid logic. Boxing has changed so much since Greb was fighting and with no footage of him actually fighting (all ive seen is some sparring at like 1/4 speed and thats apparently possibly not even him) you cannot legitimately compare him to anyone modern.

Well, yes.

But a prediction was asked for, and it's rather fun to answer threads like this.

[Sai]

Ok then. Calzaghe beats him easily as hes bigger, stronger and has the benefit of more advanced training methods.

[cross_trainer]

Ok then. Calzaghe beats him easily as hes bigger, stronger and has the benefit of more advanced training methods.

Sounds good.

Greb destroys Calzaghe based upon far greater dominance of his era, defeating better (filmed) opposition, more experience, and roughly similar size.

[Boom_Boom]

Cant really say since there is no footage of greb, but Calzaghe's resume is not even a fraction of what Greb's resume is.

[rydersonthestorm]

I doubt either of them wins this fight by ko, i rate greb but if calzaghe can beat kessler i give him a much better chance than alot of you against greb, i still favour greb but joe is a very good boxer.

[Sai]

Do you guys actually believe that boxing is the ONLY sport known to man not to improve with time? Its not like sprinting or such where there is an obvious number that is changing with time, but its pretty rediculous to suggest that head to head without the benefit of modern techniques of both fighting and training someone from the stone age of boxing would defeat a modern fighter at a roughly similar level.

If you got someone who was an ATG of the past and gave them modern nutrition, technique and conditioning training they would very likely be just as dominant as they were in their own time. However, suggesting you could just pick up an old time fighter, then drop them into the modern era and expect them to win is just naive.

[cross_trainer]

Do you guys actually believe that boxing is the ONLY sport known to man not to improve with time?

There are some that haven't, and boxing may be one of them. But we needn't even go that far. Boxing has simply not improved rapidly enough to justify the idea that Calzaghe--barely a P4P top 10 fighter in today's era--beats the absolute best of the 1920's.


Its not like sprinting or such where there is an obvious number that is changing with time, but its pretty rediculous to suggest that head to head without the benefit of modern techniques of both fighting and training someone from the stone age of boxing would defeat a modern fighter at a roughly similar level.

There aren't really any modern boxing techniques that are a great advance from the 1920's. Dempsey's "Championship Fighting" is still considered the seminal book of boxing theory, and it's drawn from 1920's boxing skills by a 1920's boxing champion.

It's as if (to use another track and field analogy) the "scissors" high jump from the 1890's was never improved upon.


If you got someone who was an ATG of the past and gave them modern nutrition, technique and conditioning training they would very likely be just as dominant as they were in their own time. However, suggesting you could just pick up an old time fighter, then drop them into the modern era and expect them to win is just naive.

Well, the rules would also tend to make for differences, just like they do in T&F. But that's another story.

[rydersonthestorm]

If calzaghe beats kessler he is easily a top 5 p4p fighter as the ratings stand.

[cross_trainer]

If calzaghe beats kessler he is easily a top 5 p4p fighter as the ratings stand.

Yes, but he hasn't done so yet. Nor do I think he will.

[Bigcat]

Greb Unan Points over 28 rounds..

[rydersonthestorm]

We will just have to wait and see but i think he beats kessler and regains his top 5 p4p place.

[Amsterdam]

HMA6Pd6tT3Q

Here is an indication of Greb's style, this primitive display transferred into a more aggressive fighting form would have done a number on an old timer like Tunney.

Sadly, no matter how much you turn this into an in ring style, it would not work on Calzaghe, because it's ridiculous in comparison. Anyway, no modern fighter 'spars' by playing patty cake.

Calzaghe tko 1.

[cross_trainer]

HMA6Pd6tT3Q

Here is an indication of Greb's style, this primitive display transferred into a more aggressive fighting form would have done a number on an old timer like Tunney.

Sadly, no matter how much you turn this into an in ring style, it would not work on Calzaghe, because it's ridiculous in comparison.

Calzaghe tko 1.

1) Boxing manuals from the 20's and 30's are still valid today. Not just the general theory guidelines, but specific recommendations.

2) All of Greb's opponents were conversant with these principles.

3) Greb beat them.



How do you explain this?

[Amsterdam]

1) Boxing manuals from the 20's and 30's are still valid today. Not just the general theory guidelines, but specific recommendations.

2) All of Greb's opponents were conversant with these principles.

3) Greb beat them.



How do you explain this?

Evolution. Football is the same basic principle also, the players today are much better, world football that is, I know nothing about gridiron.

Tunney and Dempsey were simply awful. Even when you take into consideration the issue's with old film, you can still get the basics of what is going on. You have to watch that 'sparring' video and understand exactly what is going on.

[brooklyn1550]

Here's a match I know you will love Amsterdam:lol:

Harry Greb vs. Jermain Taylor

[Amsterdam]

Here's a match I know you will love Amsterdam:lol:

Harry Greb vs. Jermain Taylor

Painfully, I pick Taylor TKO 1.

[China_hand_Joe]

1) Boxing manuals from the 20's and 30's are still valid today. Not just the general theory guidelines, but specific recommendations.


CT, you want me to get someone to try the the stance and guard - up on their toes, straight up, low hands?

There are some rather dubious recommendation in those manuals. Although I am going on achilles word here, as I can't see the books myself.

[Strike]

All this Greb shit is pretty retarded. Its like its some geekdom badge amongst boxing fans: If you talk about him then its obvious proof that you know loads about boxing...

You cannot talk about how good a boxer was when there is no footage of him in an actual fight. You cant compare someone from a totally different era against a modern fighter. ITs just retarded.

Exactly.:good There is no way I would vote for either man as I have not seen Greb fight.
And the problem with most boxing fans is that they fall into one of two equally retarded camps.

Camp 1: New is best. Basically no fighter from more than 20 years ago stands a chance against todays fighters, even though we have seen the likes of a fat, old George Foreman come and KO a top ranked heavy for the world title etc, we still have people who think that Joe Louis has no chance against Wlad because he gives away size.

Camp 2: Saying old makes you wise. This camp is perhaps even more retarded, they pick the likes of John Sullivan in their all time top ten heavys based off a few written reports of what a fighter he was and they will constantly talk about fighters as the best when the footage available is around 8 seconds of grainy, jittery crap.
These guys talk about obscure fighters from 1846 who would have destroyed PBF etc...

The fact is that some of yesterdays greats would be forces for sure, but as with most sports there is a progression and plenty of guys like Jack Johnson would simply be destroyed in the modern era. And that is based on footage, opposition and results plus simple athletic progression.

What would happen with Greb and Calzaghe is anyones guess, but from what I have read Greb made any complaints about todays dirty fighters sound ridiculous.

[Grebfan9]

You cannot gleam a fighter's true ability from a sparring session!

Muhammad Ali, at times, looked bad in sparring, yet we know that
in real fights he got the job done.

Greb beat a large number of GREAT fighters, so this short sparring session of Greb with a middle-aged former champion is no real
indication of his true fighting ability.

Greb would, in my estimation, overwhelm Calzaghe and win an
easy 15 round decision.

BTW, Why do fans think that Calzaghe is so special???

Marvin Hagler and Carlos Monzon would have taken Calzaghe
apart!!!

Grebfan9
[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

[cross_trainer]

Evolution. Football is the same basic principle also, the players today are much better, world football that is, I know nothing about gridiron.

Now you need to explain why evolution took place, if they knew exactly the same techniques and trained in those techniques.


Tunney and Dempsey were simply awful. Even when you take into consideration the issue's with old film, you can still get the basics of what is going on. You have to watch that 'sparring' video and understand exactly what is going on.

Greb looks awful. But he beat guys who look great, and who understood modern technique.

Tunney and Dempsey look quite good. If you like, we can have a comparative appraisal of them and modern fighters of similar style.

[cross_trainer]

There are some rather dubious recommendation in those manuals. Although I am going on achilles word here, as I can't see the books myself.

A quick Google search will reveal several scanned editions. I encourage you to read through it yourself and post your criticisms in the Training forum, where there are several who understand what they're doing.

[China_hand_Joe]

You cannot gleam a fighter's true ability from a sparring session!

Muhammad Ali, at times, looked bad in sparring, yet we know that
in real fights he got the job done.

Greb beat a large number of GREAT fighters, so this short sparring session of Greb with a middle-aged former champion is no real
indication of his true fighting ability.

Greb would, in my estimation, overwhelm Calzaghe and win an
easy 15 round decision.

BTW, Why do fans think that Calzaghe is so special???

Marvin Hagler and Carlos Monzon would have taken Calzaghe
apart!!!

Grebfan9
[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Nobody in history beats Calzaghe easily mate. Especially not a 5"7 Greb.

[cross_trainer]

Nobody in history beats Calzaghe easily mate. Especially not a 5"7 Greb.

Would this be the same 5'7" Greb who was 5'8"? Not nitpicking--just correcting your general tendency to understate old fighters' size.

[China_hand_Joe]

I was going to say 5"4, but thought I might get away with 5"7. Although it is irrevelant, as Calzaghe is a foot taller than his listed height apparently.

[cross_trainer]

I was going to say 5"4, but thought I might get away with 5"7.

And you would have, too, if it wasn't for the dedication of a stalwart, heroic individual who will go unnamed.

[cross_trainer]

as Calzaghe is a foot taller than his listed height apparently.

He also knocked out many more opponents than his fight films show. A third of his opponents were invisible, which explains the otherwise incomprehensible arm flailing during fights.

[Grebfan9]

Hi China Hand,

Don't forget that Greb beat fighters like Gene Tunney, Gunboat Smith,
Bill Brennan, Charley Weinert, Tommy Loughran and Jimmy Slattery.

So, Greb was accustomed to beating the daylights out of larger
fighters, and he usually did.

Grenfan9
[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])


Nobody in history beats Calzaghe easily mate. Especially not a 5"7 Greb.

[Sai]

But they were of that era and thus uncomparable from an objective point of view to a modern fighter. Giving away about 6 inches in height is not a great way to go into a bout lets face it.