Calzaghe-Kessler most significatn fight of the century...

[unclepaulie]

[quote][quote]This is prolly the most SIGNIFICANT FIGHT OF ummmmmmmm I don't know.......

can't think of a more significant fight in this century.

The winner will go down as prolly greatest supermiddleweight EVER!!!!
THE FREAKING BETTER HAVE SOMETHIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




(The Above is a quote from Andrey)

Some people seem to actually think this fight is the fight of the century. Here is why it isnt.

Ok, let's define terms first.

By Century, I'm going to go ahead and assume that you are talking about the period 2000-current. If you are talking about period 1907-2007 then this post is wasted on you, cause you know absolute shit about boxing.

Ok, now what is significance?

Does significance mean the fight that unifies a division's belts, puts them all in one man's hands?

Or is significance the fight between the most popular fighters?

Maybe significance is historical, the fight that is most historically unprecendented.

Or is significance simply the most entertaining fight, the fight that everyone will remember, the one you watch and go, 'yeah that's why i love this sport'?

Is significance possibly even the monetary value of a fight, how much money does it make?

Ok to the responses. How does Calzaghe-Kessler rate in response to these, on a scale of 5, with 1 being low and 5 being high.

Unification of titles--4--possibly the strongest category for this fight, as it unites 4 titles (Ring, WBA, WBC, WBA--no IBF) Fights with a higher score in this category: Hopkins-Trinidad (RIng, WBA, WBC, IBF middleweight), Hopkis-DeLaHoya (Ring, WBA, WBC, WBO, IBF middleweight), Jones-Johnson (Ring, WBA, WBC, IBF Lt. Heavy), Spinks-Mayorga (Ring, WBA, WBC, IBF, Welter), Lewis-Holyfield II(RIng, WBC, WBA, IBF Heavy) and I might even say Mosley-Wright (Ring, WBA, WBC, IBF Lt Middle) The reason I rate these fights over Calzaghe-Kessler is that they are all for complete unification of all major belts (WBC, WBA, IBF, Ring) and they all were traditional weight classes(with the exception of Wright-Mosley, but that was for complete unification) Calzaghe-Kessler is not as significant as the aforementioned fights because it is NOT complete unification, NOR is it a traditional weight class.


Popularity of fighters--3--Calzaghe and Kessler are both popular in their respective home countries, but they are not well-loved and popular around the world. I think that--among many others--some fights in this category that give C-K a run for its money are: DeLaHoya-Hopkins, DeLaHoya-Gatti, DeLaHoya-Mayweather, Lewis-Holyfield, Lewis-Klitschko, Hopkins-Trinidad,
Hatton-Castillo, Castillo-Corrales, et al.

Historical value--2--The partial unification of a stepping stone division--while nice, as a unification bout--is hardly historical in and of itself. Holyfield becoming the 1st 4 time heavyweight titleholder, Roy Jones beating Ruiz to become the first former middleweight titlist to win a heavy title in something like 110 years; these are historical fights.

Entertainment value--?--Obviously the fight hasn't occurred yet, so this part of the equation is an unknown quantity, but since 2000 we have seen Gatti-Ward trilogy, Castillo-Corrales I and II, Morales-Barrera trilogy, Morales-Pacquiao trilogy, Judah-Mayweather, Somsakthatchithchatithithichatchtiwal-Monshipoor (or whatever the hell their names were), Liakhovich-Brewster, Hatton-Tsyzu, Cotto-Judah and many many more fights that are going to be a bit hard to eclipse in entertainment value.

Monetary value--?--Nowhere near Mayweather-DeLaHoya or Tyson-Lewis, Ill betcha.

Ok, so its a bit longwinded, but I think that I have conclusively shown that there is very little evidence to support the statement that this is FOTC.

[mattress]

If Kessler wins, how the hell is he the best SMW ever? Calzaghe will be the only decent fighter on his resume. He'll have a long way to go to be regarded as a great SMW.

[cross_trainer]

If Kessler wins, how the hell is he the best SMW ever? Calzaghe will be the only decent fighter on his resume. He'll have a long way to go to be regarded as a great SMW.

He will have beaten the #1 supermiddleweight opponent in the division, which will go a long way toward creating legitimacy. The thing about supermiddleweight is that it's a very young division without much talent in the past. Kessler would be the best supermiddleweight ever because there haven't been many great ones before him.

[PH|LLA]

1. Unification of titles - Everyone and their mother knows that Calzaghe is the rightful owner of the IBF belt, which he won when he beat Lacy in a unification bout. To top it off both these fighters have earned their belts unlike some of the fighters you mentioned in your list who had them handed on a silver platter. (DLH vs Sturm give me a fucking break!). Also this fight is more evenly split in terms of odds than many of the fights that you mentioned but obviously you don't mention that. This is one of the more competitive fights at the elite level

2. Popularity of fighters world wide. I live in Canada, and here Kessler and CAlzaghe are both more popular than Cotto, Mayweather, Mosley (now not in his prime), Taylor, Pavlik, etc.

3. Historical Value - Fight that will crown the first ever Super Middleweight Champ as well as one ofthe few undisputed champions of the modern era. It will also establish lineage.

4. Entertainment Value - This fight has all the potential in the world to be truly amazing

5. Monetary Value - who gives a shit! we are fans not promoters. Anyways this fight will surely exceed your expectations in terms of revenues.

[unclepaulie]

He will have beaten the #1 supermiddleweight opponent in the division, which will go a long way toward creating legitimacy. The thing about supermiddleweight is that it's a very young division without much talent in the past. Kessler would be the best supermiddleweight ever because there haven't been many great ones before him.

Roy. Jones. Jr.

Period.

[unclepaulie]

Nobody currently fighting in the SMW's could touch Roy when he fought there.

[PH|LLA]

Roy. Jones. Jr.

Period.
and here we see where the hate stems from

[cross_trainer]

Roy. Jones. Jr.

Period.

He also has a strong case as a potential #1, though only because of his dominance on film and accomplishments after leaving the supermiddleweight division.

[unclepaulie]

point out anywhere i showed hate to Calzaghe, Kessler, OR the fight, it just is what it is. To say that a prime Roy loses to any fighter currently in fighting SMW is absurd.

[mattress]

It's crazy to say that Kessler becomes the greatest ever (even better than JC and all he has done) if he beats Joe Calzaghe. Did Buster Douglas or Rahman suddenly become elite HWs on the back of one fight?

[mattress]

point out anywhere i showed hate to Calzaghe, Kessler, OR the fight, it just is what it is. To say that a prime Roy loses to any fighter currently in fighting SMW is absurd.

Jones v Calzaghe would have been a hell of a tear-up

[cross_trainer]

It's crazy to say that Kessler becomes the greatest ever (even better than JC and all he has done) if he beats Joe Calzaghe. Did Buster Douglas or Rahman suddenly become elite HWs on the back of one fight?

They were not consensus #2 fighters before their wins against Lewis and Tyson, though. Nor did they have a division whose history stretches back only a decade.

If Douglas or Rahman had been involved in a unification fight against Lewis/Tyson rather than a routine title defense, and the only champions before Tyson were Spinks and Holmes, then they would have a claim to being "the greatest" in their division.

[unclepaulie]

2. Popularity of fighters world wide. I live in Canada, and here Kessler and CAlzaghe are both more popular than Cotto, Mayweather, Mosley (now not in his prime), Taylor, Pavlik, etc.


Ok...

Joe Calzaghe+Mikkel Kessler > or = Oscar DeLaHoya+Arturo Gatti in popularity???

um ok.

[Boom_Boom]

well its clearly the biggest European fight of this century atleast

[mattress]

If Douglas or Rahman had been involved in a unification fight against Lewis/Tyson rather than a routine title defense, and the only champions before Tyson were Spinks and Holmes, then they would have a claim to being "the greatest" in their division.

There is a huge difference in 'the greatest in their division' and the 'greatest ever'. I am not disputing the first quote.

[China_hand_Joe]

What makes this the most relevant fight of all time is the fact it is taking place at a weight where both fighters are at there best. Leonard - Duran has nothing on this. Kessler and Calzaghe are so much better at SMW than Duran was at WW.


Calzaghe - Kessler is the greatest of all time facing his only ever challenge. The only downside is the viewing figures and money involved. Unimportant, that is to do with the clueless fans anyway.

[Shane]

This fight means nothing there not Americans.. sorry to say.

[unclepaulie]

CHJ if you think that this is the fight of the century period 1907-2007, as i believe may be assumed from your post, then you are truly a lost soul.

[China_hand_Joe]

It isn't the greatest fight because of Americans, mainstream fans. But it is the most significant, relevant fight of all time.

This fight is the Velvet Underground, Ali - Foreman, Duran - Leonard they are the Monkees.

[unclepaulie]

This fight means nothing there not Americans.. sorry to say.

this is wrong also, this fight does mean something, because it is the two best fighters in a division squaring off, but it is not the fight of the century by any measure.

[mattress]

This fight means nothing there not Americans.. sorry to say.

go boil your head

[unclepaulie]

It isn't the greatest fight because of Americans. But it is the most significant, relevant fight of all time.

This fight is the Velvet Underground, Ali - Foreman, Duran - Leonard they are the Monkeys.


are you trying to engage in debate or are you just trying to piss people off?

[China_hand_Joe]

Name a more relevant fight then mate, not one just based on the fame of the two fighters.

[Axe]

Hatton vs Mayweather is far more significant for starters, as it's two top 5 P4P fuigthers vying for the #1 spot. That's the fight I want to see, and I believe it will be a less tactical affair than Calzaghe-Kessler.

2. Popularity of fighters world wide. I live in Canada, and here Kessler and CAlzaghe are both more popular than Cotto, Mayweather, Mosley (now not in his prime), Taylor, Pavlik, etc.

I too live in Canada, and nobody knows who either of these guys are. I mean literally nobody. Perhaps it's a Quebec thing, as you guys have Bute who will hopefully step up sometime in the next 5 years against one of these 2.

[unclepaulie]

Ali-Frazier I--Unification between two undefeated, undisputed HEAVYWEIGHTS (a real, historical division)

nuff said

[Shane]

It isn't the greatest fight because of Americans, mainstream fans. But it is the most significant, relevant fight of all time.

This fight is the Velvet Underground, Ali - Foreman, Duran - Leonard they are the Monkees.

The fight in itself will be significant to see witch one of these Euro bums is the better of the two but at the end of the day there just two pretty good fighters in a Shitty division.

[China_hand_Joe]

Calzaghe is superior to Ali and Kessler to Frazier, try again. Ali and Fraizer are just massive, famous names.

3 modern belts are worth more than the one back then, especially given the way Calzaghe and Kessler at through the competition. The worthless RING belt is also on the line. Calzaghe and Kessler, undefeated too. You have no argument.

It is logically impossible for a fight to have been more relevant, they can only possibly have bigger names involved.

[unclepaulie]

Calzaghe is superior to Ali and Kessler to Frazier, try again. Ali and Fraizer are just massive, famous names.

3 modern belts are worth more than the one back then, especially given the way Calzaghe and Kessler at through the competition. The worthless RING belt is also on the line. Calzaghe and Kessler, undefeated too. You have no argument.

It is logically impossible for a fight to have been more relevant, they can only possibly have bigger names involved.

I am done ever responding to you CHJ, you have the boxing intelligence of cheese whiz.

[PH|LLA]

I too live in Canada, and nobody knows who either of these guys are. I mean literally nobody. Perhaps it's a Quebec thing, as you guys have Bute who will hopefully step up sometime in the next 5 years against one of these 2.
well who are the popular modern fighters where you live?

[China_hand_Joe]

Calzaghe - Kessler has every single ingredient imaginable for a relavent boxing match.

Unification
Undefeated
Two dominant fighters
Both close to their career peak
The best fighter of all time is involved
His only challenge
RING belt
defines a weight class

There can be equal bouts, but nothing that surpasses it. Only Calzaghe vs Jones would have been better.

There is absolutely nothing missing. This fight could be more significant in pure boxing terms. Forget Ali's out of ring fame. He has nothing on Calzaghe in reality. It is safe to assume such a big name as Ali has had his skills blown out of proportion and a Welshman like Calzaghe is criminally under appreciated.

[Shane]

Calzaghe is superior to Ali and Kessler to Frazier, try again. Ali and Fraizer are just massive, famous names.

3 modern belts are worth more than the one back then, especially given the way Calzaghe and Kessler at through the competition. The worthless RING belt is also on the line. Calzaghe and Kessler, undefeated too. You have no argument.

It is logically impossible for a fight to have been more relevant, they can only possibly have bigger names involved.
Sorry but you are wrong this fight is only getting a buzz in Europe... the mass amount of Americans do not care for two fighters who are scared to fight out of there country.. and who's records are more patted than a pair of huggies diapers. therefore the fight is mediocre at best sure your arenas will be packed with low income family's rooting for the countrymen but nothing else.

[China_hand_Joe]

Sorry but you are wrong this fight is only getting a buzz in Europe... the mass amount of Americans do not care for two fighters who are scared to fight out of there country.. and who's records are more patted than a pair of huggies diapers. therefore the fight is mediocre at best sure your arenas will be packed with low income family's rooting for the countrymen but nothing else.

You really think the fact many part-time American fans are ignorant to this bout somehow devalues it? Rubbish. This is as significant as any bout in history. In pure boxing terms. Fame is not a factor.

[mattress]

your arenas will be packed with low income family's rooting for the countrymen but nothing else.

How the fuck do you work that out? Who the hell are you? Snotty fucker. Anyway, have you seen the price of the tickets!:nut

[box03]

You really think the fact many part-time American fans are ignorant to this bout somehow devalues it? Rubbish. This is as significant as any bout in history. In pure boxing terms. Fame is not a factor. If its such an amazing fight why isnt on PPV, most boxing fans would rather see Holyfield try to regain a title.

[mattress]

I suppose the fight is as anticipated to us as Taylor-Pavlik was to the yanks....except this fight has two more highly skilled boxers taking part than were in last Saturday's fight.

[stuistylee]

It isn't the greatest fight because of Americans, mainstream fans. But it is the most significant, relevant fight of all time.

This fight is the Velvet Underground, Ali - Foreman, Duran - Leonard they are the Monkees.your getting more delusional by the day CHJ...most significant,relevant fight of all time...yeh...right

[box03]

I suppose the fight is as anticipated to us as Taylor-Pavlik was to the yanks....except this fight has two more highly skilled boxers taking part than were in last Saturday's fight. I bet you a month off ESB it wont be as exciting as Taylor/Pavlik.

[stuistylee]

Calzaghe - Kessler has every single ingredient imaginable for a relavent boxing match.

Unification
Undefeated
Two dominant fighters
Both close to their career peak
The best fighter of all time is involved
His only challenge
RING belt
defines a weight class

There can be equal bouts, but nothing that surpasses it. Only Calzaghe vs Jones would have been better.

There is absolutely nothing missing. This fight could be more significant in pure boxing terms. Forget Ali's out of ring fame. He has nothing on Calzaghe in reality. It is safe to assume such a big name as Ali has had his skills blown out of proportion and a Welshman like Calzaghe is criminally under appreciated. forget ali's out of ring fame. he has nothing on calzaghe...what r u fukin on man???

[Shane]

You really think the fact many part-time American fans are ignorant to this bout somehow devalues it? Rubbish. This is as significant as any bout in history. In pure boxing terms. Fame is not a factor.

Thank your lucky stars HBO put cash into this Non PPV match they did these two fighters a huge Favor nonetheless This fight means nothing the division itself is Rubbish and the best of the bunch witch are Calzhage and Kessler are very protected over hyped fighters Ali-Frazier? Please give me a break.

[China_hand_Joe]

If you think Fraizer is on Kessler's level, they you have to be pretty deluded. He beat Ali, that was it.

You can see in video, Kessler is clearly the better fighter.

[cross_trainer]

There is a huge difference in 'the greatest in their division' and the 'greatest ever'. I am not disputing the first quote.

I'd say that the winner may be the greatest supermiddleweight in history, due to weak competition. Greatest of all time (the fight OR the fighters) is a ludicrous stretch.

[moff123]

This fight means nothing there not Americans.. sorry to say.You are a joke! So Pacquiao vs Barrera means nothing does it?

[Shane]

If you think Fraizer is on Kessler's level, they you have to be pretty deluded. He beat Ali, that was it.

You can see in video, Kessler is clearly the better fighter.

In this thread you have exposed yourself as a Eurosnob with little Boxing knowledge. And its Significant not significatn :patsch

[brooklyn1550]

What makes this the most relevant fight of all time is the fact it is taking place at a weight where both fighters are at there best. Leonard - Duran has nothing on this. Kessler and Calzaghe are so much better at SMW than Duran was at WW.


Calzaghe - Kessler is the greatest of all time facing his only ever challenge. The only downside is the viewing figures and money involved. Unimportant, that is to do with the clueless fans anyway.

That's where I stopped reading

[China_hand_Joe]

You are unable to to counter my Kessler>Fraizer argument?

[box03]

You are a joke! So Pacquiao vs Barrera means nothing does it? I would rather see Iggy/Holyfield, at least with that fight I have someone to root for.

[cross_trainer]

You are unable to to counter my Kessler>Fraizer argument?

:think

You must be desperate for attention tonight...

[Shane]

You are a joke! So Pacquiao vs Barrera means nothing does it?

One ridiculous statement deserver's another. I am merely trying to sound as foolish as China Hand Job.

[China_hand_Joe]

:think

You must be desperate for attention tonight...

Try it if you want mate.

This is Fraizer going into the Ali fight.

[cross_trainer]

Try it if you want mate.

This is Fraizer going into the Ali fight.

Nah. I'm not in the mood for sophistry at the moment. Try me again later.

In the meantime, good hunting.

[PH|LLA]

i tend to agree that this fight ranks up there with the Leonard - Duran, Jones - Hopkins, Hagler - Hearns, etc. in terms of elite fighting elite. Even though they are a little less elite, its not far off

[China_hand_Joe]

Pacman is promoted by Americans perhaps?

[kg0208]

Pacman is promoted by Americans perhaps?

No, he just fights here, so we can see him. It really is as simple as that really. You call American fighters overrated, American's call Euro fighters overrated. You're each talking shit, so what's the problem? Both sides think they are right and the other is wrong.

[China_hand_Joe]

No, he just fights here, so we can see him. It really is as simple as that really. You call American fighters overrated, American's call Euro fighters overrated. You're each talking shit, so what's the problem? Both sides think they are right and the other is wrong.

They are all overrated except Calzaghe, Mayweather and a few other by people from both sides. I believe both sides are wrong.

[Lance_Uppercut]

Most significant fight of the century? Where the fuck do noobs come up with this shit? This forum gets worse by the day...

[DanePugilist]

Sorry but you are wrong this fight is only getting a buzz in Europe... the mass amount of Americans do not care for two fighters who are scared to fight out of there country.. and who's records are more patted than a pair of huggies diapers. therefore the fight is mediocre at best sure your arenas will be packed with low income family's rooting for the countrymen but nothing else.Before you claim something, please do some homework first. Kessler did his first title defence in Australia, and now in Wales. 99% of top US boxers have never fought outside their country - are you a hypocrite?

If this fight does not generate mass amount of interest is nothing to do with the significance of the fight, but rather the ignorance of US boxing fans. However, I assume that a vast majority of the US posters on ESB, acknowledges this fight.

You on the other hand should rather choose a new sport, or research some more.

[DanePugilist]

Most significant fight of the century? Where the fuck do noobs come up with this shit? This forum gets worse by the day...The century is 7 years old.

[Lance_Uppercut]

The century is 7 years old.

Good call. But it still doesn't make it the most significant. It's a great fight and I am happy it's happening. But please, it's build up like this that makes a mockery of it and the good fans.

[box03]

Before you claim something, please do some homework first. Kessler did his first title defence in Australia, and now in Wales. 99% of all US boxers have never fought outside their country - are you a hypocrite?

If this fight does not generate mass amount of interest is nothing to do with the significance of the fight, but rather the ignorance of US boxing fans. However, I assume that a vast majority of the US posters on ESB, acknowledges this fight.

You on the other hand should rather choose a new sport, or research some more. US fighters consider this a good fight, but not no where near "fight of the century", if it was that significant it would be on PPV dont you think? As far as it not getting interest in america it will, but these our 2 fighters most people have not seen much on television in america, its hard to get into a fight when you havent seen alot of there past fights.

[DanePugilist]

Good call. But it still doesn't make it the most significant. It's a great fight and I am happy it's happening. But please, it's build up like this that makes a mockery of it and the good fans.These two guys are the best fighters by far in terms of skills from 160-175. The intangibles are incredible and both are masters of in their field.

The fact that this fight is almost impossible to predict is the icing on the cake.

Forget about names.
Forget about resumes.
Forget about hype.
Forget about circle jerkers.
Forget about has-beens.
Forget nationalities.

And look at skills, and belts...

This is by far the most important and interesting fight in this century.

[DanePugilist]

US fighters consider this a good fight, but not no where near "fight of the century", if it was that significant it would be on PPV dont you think? As far as it not getting interest in america it will, but these our 2 fighters most people have not seen much on television in america, its hard to get into a fight when you havent seen alot of there past fights.Because both wants exposure, and HBO acknowledges that a vast majority don't really know these guys. If you think its because it isn't important or a top rank fight, then you are simply wrong.

I think all that views this fight, will come back and say - this was the fight of the century.

[box03]

Because both wants exposure, and HBO acknowledges that a vast majority don't really know these guys. If you think its because it isn't important or a top rank fight, then you are simply wrong.

I think all that views this fight, will come back and say - this was the fight of the century. This fight is not the fight of the century, you do understand that a century is a 100 years right? This is a good fight Im looking foward to seeing, but honestly, I dont even consider this fights the most significant fight of the year. That title would go to Mayweather/Hatton, I think thats the fight people are really looking foward to.

[Orishaman]

[quote][quote]This is prolly the most SIGNIFICANT FIGHT OF ummmmmmmm I don't know.......

can't think of a more significant fight in this century.

The winner will go down as prolly greatest supermiddleweight EVER!!!!
THE FREAKING BETTER HAVE SOMETHIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




(The Above is a quote from Andrey)

Some people seem to actually think this fight is the fight of the century. Here is why it isnt.

Ok, let's define terms first.

By Century, I'm going to go ahead and assume that you are talking about the period 2000-current. If you are talking about period 1907-2007 then this post is wasted on you, cause you know absolute shit about boxing.

Ok, now what is significance?

Does significance mean the fight that unifies a division's belts, puts them all in one man's hands?

Or is significance the fight between the most popular fighters?

Maybe significance is historical, the fight that is most historically unprecendented.

Or is significance simply the most entertaining fight, the fight that everyone will remember, the one you watch and go, 'yeah that's why i love this sport'?

Is significance possibly even the monetary value of a fight, how much money does it make?

Ok to the responses. How does Calzaghe-Kessler rate in response to these, on a scale of 5, with 1 being low and 5 being high.

Unification of titles--4--possibly the strongest category for this fight, as it unites 4 titles (Ring, WBA, WBC, WBA--no IBF) Fights with a higher score in this category: Hopkins-Trinidad (RIng, WBA, WBC, IBF middleweight), Hopkis-DeLaHoya (Ring, WBA, WBC, WBO, IBF middleweight), Jones-Johnson (Ring, WBA, WBC, IBF Lt. Heavy), Spinks-Mayorga (Ring, WBA, WBC, IBF, Welter), Lewis-Holyfield II(RIng, WBC, WBA, IBF Heavy) and I might even say Mosley-Wright (Ring, WBA, WBC, IBF Lt Middle) The reason I rate these fights over Calzaghe-Kessler is that they are all for complete unification of all major belts (WBC, WBA, IBF, Ring) and they all were traditional weight classes(with the exception of Wright-Mosley, but that was for complete unification) Calzaghe-Kessler is not as significant as the aforementioned fights because it is NOT complete unification, NOR is it a traditional weight class.


Popularity of fighters--3--Calzaghe and Kessler are both popular in their respective home countries, but they are not well-loved and popular around the world. I think that--among many others--some fights in this category that give C-K a run for its money are: DeLaHoya-Hopkins, DeLaHoya-Gatti, DeLaHoya-Mayweather, Lewis-Holyfield, Lewis-Klitschko, Hopkins-Trinidad,
Hatton-Castillo, Castillo-Corrales, et al.

Historical value--2--The partial unification of a stepping stone division--while nice, as a unification bout--is hardly historical in and of itself. Holyfield becoming the 1st 4 time heavyweight titleholder, Roy Jones beating Ruiz to become the first former middleweight titlist to win a heavy title in something like 110 years; these are historical fights.

Entertainment value--?--Obviously the fight hasn't occurred yet, so this part of the equation is an unknown quantity, but since 2000 we have seen Gatti-Ward trilogy, Castillo-Corrales I and II, Morales-Barrera trilogy, Morales-Pacquiao trilogy, Judah-Mayweather, Somsakthatchithchatithithichatchtiwal-Monshipoor (or whatever the hell their names were), Liakhovich-Brewster, Hatton-Tsyzu, Cotto-Judah and many many more fights that are going to be a bit hard to eclipse in entertainment value.

Monetary value--?--Nowhere near Mayweather-DeLaHoya or Tyson-Lewis, Ill betcha.

Ok, so its a bit longwinded, but I think that I have conclusively shown that there is very little evidence to support the statement that this is FOTC.

Nope...man where did you come with this shit....

Joe C. vs. Kessler will be a grat match...but not at that level

[cross_trainer]

Forget about names.
Forget about resumes.
Forget about hype.
Forget about circle jerkers.
Forget about has-beens.
Forget nationalities.


...and let's watch Gatti-Ward IV for the world championship!

[Lance_Uppercut]

These two guys are the best fighters by far in terms of skills from 160-175. The intangibles are incredible and both are masters of in their field.

The fact that this fight is almost impossible to predict is the icing on the cake.

Forget about names.
Forget about resumes.
Forget about hype.
Forget about circle jerkers.
Forget about has-beens.
Forget nationalities.

And look at skills, and belts...

This is by far the most important and interesting fight in this century.

Nom that's just how it is to you. To the rest of the world, it's a very good fight. But it's doesn't have more meaning then even DLH - Mayweather or even Taylor - Hopkins. Both of those had deeper meaning in terms of out with the old, in with the new. Shane vs. Winky gave us the first unified JrMW champ in what, almost 30 years?

I understand you're psyched, and that's all good. But it's closer to just a potentially great fight then the most sigcificant one of the past 7 years. Anyway, I don't want to rain on your parade, that's kinda dickish of me, so I'll STFU. :D

But I am, excited for this. :thumbsup

[Mrvooh]

Nobody currently fighting in the SMW's could touch Roy when he fought there. I wouldn't say that...jones had a bad chin, and Kessler/Joe hit pretty hard.. jones was great, but it only takes one good shot to take someone out even if you are losing. I recall many on here saying Joe had no chance against Lacy. they that said that were just as certain about that as you are saying RJJ beats anyone today. No one makes accurate predictions everytime.

[Lance_Uppercut]

I wouldn't say that...jones had a bad chin, and Kessler/Joe hit pretty hard.. jones was great, but it only takes one good shot to take someone out even if you are losing. I recall many on here saying Joe had no chance against Lacy. they that said that were just as certain about that as you are saying RJJ beats anyone today. No one makes accurate predictions everytime.

There was no evidence of a bad chin while he fought @ 168. Anf not really ever till he moved to HW and went back down to `75, at 36YO (or however old he was). He was also had faster hands anf feet then either Joe C or Kessler and a damn hard hitter at 168. You'd have to take some serious punishment to get in close to Jones, and even then he was very elusive.

[Mrvooh]

Sorry but you are wrong this fight is only getting a buzz in Europe... the mass amount of Americans do not care for two fighters who are scared to fight out of there country.. and who's records are more patted than a pair of huggies diapers. therefore the fight is mediocre at best sure your arenas will be packed with low income family's rooting for the countrymen but nothing else. You mean like Patterson was scared to fight Johansson out of the USA? Or Louis was scared to fight Max in germany??
Ali, i give credit to, he went anywhere...but the rest of the USA champs back then didn't leave USA to go fight, so Joe and Kessler are no worse than they were...

[Mrvooh]

No, he just fights here, so we can see him. It really is as simple as that really. You call American fighters overrated, American's call Euro fighters overrated. You're each talking shit, so what's the problem? Both sides think they are right and the other is wrong.
Unfortunately, you are right. I lean on some posters and make some off the wall comments, just to play at their level :oops:

[Korn_06]

Lets not get carried away here. Calzaghe - Kessler may not even be the most significan fight this year. If Hatton beats Mayweather then I will give that more significance. You can not realy talk about the significance of a fight before it happened. Maybe not until years after can you meassure its significance. But it definitely has the potential of being significant.

This fight is definitely the biggest fight in Europe for a very long time. This is the fight I look forward to the most, but for other boxing fans that may not be very interested in the SMW division it might not even get into the top 10.

I think many posters feel like me, eagerly looking forward to this fight, want to talk about it, but everything has been repeated endlessly so what is there to say. But I feel it in fact hurts the fight more than it helps it to show this senseless worshipping of the fighters and the fight.

If they are as great as we think they will show their class.

[Mrvooh]

There was no evidence of a bad chin while he fought @ 168. Anf not really ever till he moved to HW and went back down to `75, at 36YO (or however old he was). He was also had faster hands anf feet then either Joe C or Kessler and a damn hard hitter at 168. You'd have to take some serious punishment to get in close to Jones, and even then he was very elusive. I dunno...I have seen many posts on RJJ chin being worse than Wlads...you are the first one I've seen to deny it...:conf

[Korn_06]

It is blasphemy or witchcraft to indicate that RJJ would have any risk of loosing to anyone in his prime. It is the biggest taboo on ESB.

[unclepaulie]

China Hand Joe, theese are some of the flat out stupid arguments you have made, and will in fact keep me from giving any credit to any of you're future arguments, as this just shows your blatent bias towards non-american fighters.
Name a more relevant fight then mate, not one just based on the fame of the two fighters.
There are three more relevant fights this year. Just this year. De La Hoya-Mayweather, Hatton-Mayweather, and Cotto-Mosley. And by the by, usually fighters get big names based on thier skills and quality of opposition, depending how they do against said opposition.
Calzaghe is superior to Ali and Kessler to Frazier, try again. Ali and Fraizer are just massive, famous names.

3 modern belts are worth more than the one back then, especially given the way Calzaghe and Kessler at through the competition. The worthless RING belt is also on the line. Calzaghe and Kessler, undefeated too. You have no argument.

It is logically impossible for a fight to have been more relevant, they can only possibly have bigger names involved.
Calzaghe is superior to Ali? There is absolutley no wasy Calzaghe comes close to being on the same skill level as Ali. Ali was the best heavyweight in the greatest era of heavyweights. Frazier is also far superior to Kessler. And last time I checked The Ring belt was the only true champion belt left, buut I guess that stopped being the case when Calzaghe won the WBO, which is, as everyone else here will Im sure agree, by far the most prestegious award in not only boxing, but all of sports.
You really think the fact many part-time American fans are ignorant to this bout somehow devalues it? Rubbish. This is as significant as any bout in history. In pure boxing terms. Fame is not a factor.
This just shows your anit-american bias, flat out.
If you think Fraizer is on Kessler's level, they you have to be pretty deluded. He beat Ali, that was it.
I think Frazier was way beyond Kesslers level. Im not even going to go into your argument of he beat nobody besides Ali, because Kessler can never have an opponent of Ali's magnitude. Even if that was Fraziers only significant victory, then it in and of itself is a far better win than Kessler has or ever will have.
Calzaghe Kessler is a good fight, but nowhere close to FOTC. There just arent the resumes to back them. All you have done is make bold and ridiculous statements and not had any point behind them. There is no way Calzaghe is on the same level as Ali, nor Kessler is on Fraziers. Sorry to burst your Calzaghe bubble, but if you really believe that then there is no reason for any poster on ESB to take into consideration what you have to say.

[DanePugilist]

This fight is not the fight of the century, you do understand that a century is a 100 years right? This is a good fight Im looking foward to seeing, but honestly, I dont even consider this fights the most significant fight of the year. That title would go to Mayweather/Hatton, I think thats the fight people are really looking foward to.I know that century means hundred - but you do realize that each of them starts anew every hundred years - this is the 20th. So fight of the century mean fight of 20th century.

Well, Mayweather/Hatton is a top match, but its not even close - Hatton is not fighting in his best weight class. Mayweather is no longer in his best either. But to each his own. You go by popularity - I go by what matters the most, and having a fight at SMW to unify all belts means more to me.

[box03]

I know that century means hundred - but you do realize that each of them starts anew every hundred years - this is the 20th. So fight of the century mean fight of 20th century.

Well, Mayweather/Hatton is a top match, but its not even close - Hatton is not fighting in his best weight class. Mayweather is no longer in his best either. But to each his own. You go by popularity - I go by what matters the most, and having a fight at SMW to unify all belts means more to me. I do understand what your saying but Calzaghe at 35 isnt exactly in his prime and Kessler might be I guess, but Im really not sure how you determine this as a fight of the century. I look at a fight of the century as a fight everybody wants to see and that 2 fighters our in there primes fighting each other, I think Mayweather/Hatton is closer to both men being in there prime, while being more of an exciting fight to not just americans but to most fight fans as a whole.

[Korn_06]

I know that century means hundred - but you do realize that each of them starts anew every hundred years - this is the 20th. So fight of the century mean fight of 20th century.

Well, Mayweather/Hatton is a top match, but its not even close - Hatton is not fighting in his best weight class. Mayweather is no longer in his best either. But to each his own. You go by popularity - I go by what matters the most, and having a fight at SMW to unify all belts means more to me.

A small correction we are now in the 21st, century

[DanePugilist]

A small correction we are now in the 21st, centurySorry... that is of course correct, but still same thing applies:cool:

[DanePugilist]

I do understand what your saying but Calzaghe at 35 isnt exactly in his prime and Kessler might be I guess, but Im really not sure how you determine this as a fight of the century. I look at a fight of the century as a fight everybody wants to see and that 2 fighters our in there primes fighting each other, I think Mayweather/Hatton is closer to both men being in there prime, while being more of an exciting fight to not just americans but to most fight fans as a whole.Calzaghe at 33-34 beat the top rank Jeff Lacy, and not only did he beat him - he sent him to school, and showed no signs of being passed prime. Kessler is in his prime - no doubt, and have never showed any indication of looking bad - unlike...

Mayweather and Hatton. Floyd appeared less than impressive to me against Oscar, but most things were to DLHs advantage; weight class, ring size and glove size. However, we are all aware that DLH is way past his prime.

Hatton has looked far worse at 147 - against Collazo and Urango. There is no indication that Hatton will fare very well at 147.

I root for Hatton, but to me this fight is not an even contest, at least no where near Kessler/Calzaghe.

[Cruiser1]

True boxing fans (American or not) realize the significance of this fight. I am looking forward to it very much. If Calzaghe wins he'll be the best supermiddle of all-time in my book and if Kessler wins he'd be a big win or two away from being that as well.

Neither of them has ever really come close to losing a fight unless u wanna count Calzaghe's fight with Robin Reid which wasn't really that controversial to begin with. It just doesn't get any bigger than this. 2 elite fighters going at it. November 3rd can't come soon enough.

[Rollo]

To say that a prime Roy loses to any fighter currently in fighting SMW is absurd.


It is also absurd to say that he would have won, because we will never know. There is the Jones era, and the Kessler/Calzaghe era - that´s how it is.

[Rollo]

BTW - I think we´ll know more about if this fight is significant or not on nov 4.

[Axe]

These two guys are the best fighters by far in terms of skills from 160-175.

I disagree, Chad Dawson is significantly more skilled than Kessler and a level above Joe C at this stage, while Zsolt Erdei is on Calzaghe's level in terms of boxing skills (but lacks Calzaghe's stamina).

Plus if you want to get technical, Hopkins is superior to both in terms of skills, but he is simply getting too long in tooth to be the top dog anymore.

[Axe]

If you think Fraizer is on Kessler's level, they you have to be pretty deluded. He beat Ali, that was it.

You can see in video, Kessler is clearly the better fighter.

:rofl

[Axe]

well who are the popular modern fighters where you live?

Taylor, Mosely, Cotto, DLH, pretty much all of the big PPV stars (which Kessler or calzaghe aren't).

Diaconu and Bute are talked about occasionally on Ross Anber's show, and as a result so are Chad Dawson and Tomasz Adamek (fighters Diaconu was/is gunning for).

[Korn_06]

I disagree, Chad Dawson is significantly more skilled than Kessler and a level above Joe C at this stage, while Zsolt Erdei is on Calzaghe's level in terms of boxing skills (but lacks Calzaghe's stamina).

Plus if you want to get technical, Hopkins is superior to both in terms of skills, but he is simply getting too long in tooth to be the top dog anymore.

Chad Dawson is still quite young and I know that he beat Adamek convincingly, however Adamek was clearly off his A-game that night, I dont know why. Maybe he is that good, but we are very fast to praise fighters for one specific win. So far Chad is the 5th. ranked LHW fighter and he will of course show us all, but let him do it first.

[McSMW]

AXE:
"I disagree, Chad Dawson is significantly more skilled than Kessler and a level above Joe C at this stage,"


Chad Dawson? Significantly more skilled than Kessler and a level above Joe?
I respect your opinion, but this is a stupid claim. Dawson might have great potiential, but thats all so far.


Someone: "You really think the fact many part-time American fans are ignorant to this bout somehow devalues it? Rubbish. This is as significant as any bout in history. In pure boxing terms. Fame is not a factor. "

JAYGATSBY: "This just shows your anit-american bias, flat out. "

And how is that? He just says that the lack of american interest in the fight doesnt make it less significant in terms of boxing skill and legacy. How can something that obvious be labeled anti-american.

On the other hand, yes, this fight wont get the same respect in the historybooks as, maybe Maywether-Hatton, because of the lack in american interest, but skill- and elitewise, this IS sofar the topfight of the 21. century.

On Nov. 4 we know for sure.

[knockout]

We'll see.

[China_hand_Joe]

There are three more relevant fights this year. Just this year. De La Hoya-Mayweather, Hatton-Mayweather, and Cotto-Mosley. And by the by, usually fighters get big names based on thier skills and quality of opposition, depending how they do against said opposition.

Calzaghe is superior to Ali? There is absolutley no wasy Calzaghe comes close to being on the same skill level as Ali. Ali was the best heavyweight in the greatest era of heavyweights. Frazier is also far superior to Kessler. And last time I checked The Ring belt was the only true champion belt left, buut I guess that stopped being the case when Calzaghe won the WBO, which is, as everyone else here will Im sure agree, by far the most prestegious award in not only boxing, but all of sports.


Oscar - Mayweather was just a huge money spinner and a mismatch. Oscar had done absolutely nothing of late.

It isn't difficult to suggest Calzaghe is better than Ali mate. There is a greater talent pool at SWM for starters, it is likely to produce better fighters, as SMW are normal, commonly sized people. HW are massive and there are very few of them in the world. Far lesser talent pool, devalues any HW era a bit. Ali isn't amazingly impressive on video either. His biggest fights Foreman and Fraizer. The only two good, non robbery victories he has. In losing to Fraizer and non via a freak knockout (like Lewis might) he showed how ungodlike he actually was and against Foreman (with the accidental invention of the rope-a-dope) he won based on Foreman's inability to pace himself and general lack of wisdom at that time, but that was still very impressive just not Calzaghe - Eubank, Calzaghe - Lacy, Calzaghe KO1 Veit, Calzaghe KO2 Mitchell impressive.

[Axe]

Chad Dawson is still quite young and I know that he beat Adamek convincingly, however Adamek was clearly off his A-game that night, I dont know why. Maybe he is that good, but we are very fast to praise fighters for one specific win. So far Chad is the 5th. ranked LHW fighter and he will of course show us all, but let him do it first.

I'm not praising his resume at the moment. He has one big win in which he was floored hard, that's it.

In terms of boxing skills however, he is a level above Kessler imo, he has more angles, is faster, more elusive, moves his head better, etc.

He could turn out to be the next big thing or he could get iced by Diaconu next. Who knows. All we can do is look at the fighter that appears in the ring on a fight-by-fight basis.

[MSTR]

He will have beaten the #1 supermiddleweight opponent in the division, which will go a long way toward creating legitimacy. The thing about supermiddleweight is that it's a very young division without much talent in the past. Kessler would be the best supermiddleweight ever because there haven't been many great ones before him.
Good Post. Although Jones is head 2 head the best SMW, on resume Kessler would have a great chance of becoming the best ever no doubt, considering the young age of the division.

[MSTR]

I'm not praising his resume at the moment. He has one big win in which he was floored hard, that's it.

In terms of boxing skills however, he is a level above Kessler imo, he has more angles, is faster, more elusive, moves his head better, etc.

He could turn out to be the next big thing or he could get iced by Diaconu next. Who knows. All we can do is look at the fighter that appears in the ring on a fight-by-fight basis.
Kessler is far too orthadox to ever deal with a fighter with the technical skills of Dawson. He would simply get out boxed, and quite badly so IMO. Dawson is bigger, faster and just plain better. Style wise this is NOT a good match up for Kess, who would fight much the same way Adamek did IMO

[Toopretty]

1. Unification of titles - Everyone and their mother knows that Calzaghe is the rightful owner of the IBF belt, which he won when he beat Lacy in a unification bout. To top it off both these fighters have earned their belts unlike some of the fighters you mentioned in your list who had them handed on a silver platter. (DLH vs Sturm give me a fucking break!). Also this fight is more evenly split in terms of odds than many of the fights that you mentioned but obviously you don't mention that. This is one of the more competitive fights at the elite level

2. Popularity of fighters world wide. I live in Canada, and here Kessler and CAlzaghe are both more popular than Cotto, Mayweather, Mosley (now not in his prime), Taylor, Pavlik, etc. :rofl:rofl:rofl:nut:nut:nut

3. Historical Value - Fight that will crown the first ever Super Middleweight Champ as well as one ofthe few undisputed champions of the modern era. It will also establish lineage.:lol::lol::lol::lol:

4. Entertainment Value - This fight has all the potential in the world to be truly amazing (YOU ARE ONE FUNNY MOTHERFUCKER..YOU SHOULD BE PROMOTING THIS BULLSHIT ASS 168 UNIFICATION BOUT. THAT IS WHAT IT IS..A 168 PD UNIFICATION BOUT BETWEEN TWO OF THE LEAST KNOWN FIGHTERS IN BOXING...YES...WORLD FUCKING WIDE AND DAMNED FOR SURE HERE IN THE US.)

5. Monetary Value - who gives a shit! we are fans not promoters. Anyways this fight will surely exceed your expectations in terms of revenues. Never has, never will. This shit is on cable. Not PPV.:yep






168 is one of the most blatently weakest division in boxing since..I dont know...its existence which was short.

[Toopretty]

Dawson would whoop Kessler and Calzaghes ass. I mean that. They would get outboxed and see how Dawson has Roy like quickness as a southpaw with longer reach and a mean lead off right hand. Dawson would crush both of them.

[box03]

This fight is only a big deal in the Euro countries, it reminds of how they fought Bruno/Lewis was the fight of the century too.

[Toopretty]

This fight is only a big deal in the Euro countries, it reminds of how they fought Bruno/Lewis was the fight of the century too.

:yep:yep:good

[Lance_Uppercut]

I dunno...I have seen many posts on RJJ chin being worse than Wlads...you are the first one I've seen to deny it...:conf
Did I deny it? Quote it. Then again, maybe you can give an example of his terrible chin in his lighter days. I'll wait.

[Lance_Uppercut]

Oscar - Mayweather was just a huge money spinner and a mismatch. Oscar had done absolutely nothing of late.

It isn't difficult to suggest Calzaghe is better than Ali mate. There is a greater talent pool at SWM for starters, it is likely to produce better fighters, as SMW are normal, commonly sized people. HW are massive and there are very few of them in the world. Far lesser talent pool, devalues any HW era a bit. Ali isn't amazingly impressive on video either. His biggest fights Foreman and Fraizer. The only two good, non robbery victories he has. In losing to Fraizer and non via a freak knockout (like Lewis might) he showed how ungodlike he actually was and against Foreman (with the accidental invention of the rope-a-dope) he won based on Foreman's inability to pace himself and general lack of wisdom at that time, but that was still very impressive just not Calzaghe - Eubank, Calzaghe - Lacy, Calzaghe KO1 Veit, Calzaghe KO2 Mitchell impressive.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: The forum jester does it again. YOu show how very little you know and idiots STILL kiss your ass...:patsch

[Polymath]

You really think the fact many part-time American fans are ignorant to this bout somehow devalues it? Rubbish. This is as significant as any bout in history. In pure boxing terms. Fame is not a factor.

:rofl

Are you doing schtick, or you really believe that? Can't quite tell from your tone.

[unclepaulie]

Originally Posted by China_hand_Joe
Oscar - Mayweather was just a huge money spinner and a mismatch. Oscar had done absolutely nothing of late.

It isn't difficult to suggest Calzaghe is better than Ali mate. There is a greater talent pool at SWM for starters, it is likely to produce better fighters, as SMW are normal, commonly sized people. HW are massive and there are very few of them in the world. Far lesser talent pool, devalues any HW era a bit. Ali isn't amazingly impressive on video either. His biggest fights Foreman and Fraizer. The only two good, non robbery victories he has. In losing to Fraizer and non via a freak knockout (like Lewis might) he showed how ungodlike he actually was and against Foreman (with the accidental invention of the rope-a-dope) he won based on Foreman's inability to pace himself and general lack of wisdom at that time, but that was still very impressive just not Calzaghe - Eubank, Calzaghe - Lacy, Calzaghe KO1 Veit, Calzaghe KO2 Mitchell impressive.
I am not even going to touch you thinking Calzaghe is better than Ali, I'll just chalk that one up to a long day at work or some really good mushrooms. I will say that if you dont think Ali looks impressive on video, than you obviously haven't seen Ali-Cleveland Williams fight. Also if you would be so kind as to study your non-european boxing history than you would know that Ali went into the ring against Foreman with the rope-a-dope strategy in his head. He had sparring partners beating up his body for that whole training camp. Then he got into the ring and knocked out what was thought to be a basically unbeatable fighter. This fight was so much more impressive than any Calzaghe victory. Foreman is an ATG. Cant say the same about Eubank, Lacy, Veit, or Mitchell. I must say that you are the biggest nuthugger on this forum, hands down.

[Polymath]

Joe Calzaghe would be embarrased if he read this thread.

[Axe]

Joe Calzaghe would be embarrased if he read this thread.

I think his own fans would terrify the man. :yep

[THN]

Oscar - Mayweather was just a huge money spinner and a mismatch. Oscar had done absolutely nothing of late.

It isn't difficult to suggest Calzaghe is better than Ali mate. There is a greater talent pool at SWM for starters, it is likely to produce better fighters, as SMW are normal, commonly sized people. HW are massive and there are very few of them in the world. Far lesser talent pool, devalues any HW era a bit. Ali isn't amazingly impressive on video either. His biggest fights Foreman and Fraizer. The only two good, non robbery victories he has. In losing to Fraizer and non via a freak knockout (like Lewis might) he showed how ungodlike he actually was and against Foreman (with the accidental invention of the rope-a-dope) he won based on Foreman's inability to pace himself and general lack of wisdom at that time, but that was still very impressive just not Calzaghe - Eubank, Calzaghe - Lacy, Calzaghe KO1 Veit, Calzaghe KO2 Mitchell impressive.

Stop smoking that weed man, I'm looking forward to the 4. of Nov.
as well, but don't be carried away like that, you will be a sad man Nov. 5 th. then.:yep

[Smazz20]

The sad thing is, if Calzaghe does beat Kessler, he'll most likely either fight Woods or Erdei to claim his two weight world champion status.

Kessler will then have a shit load of more work to do to entice Americans into fighting him. No one will bother with him afterwards. It's sad that a defeat could have that sort of effect on a fighers career.

[China_hand_Joe]

I am not even going to touch you thinking Calzaghe is better than Ali.

Mayweather, Tszyu, Jones, Calzaghe, Wlad, Lewis and maybe even Joan Guzman from the last decade are all easily superior to Ali.