**Defensive Masters: How would you rank them...** [Archive]

Orishaman

10-02-2007, 09:08 PM

The Masters of Defence, the masters of the sweet science, how would you rank them:

in no particular order:

Nico Loche, Sweet Pea, Winky Wright, Wilfred Benitez, Willie Pep

How would you rank them....

cpnasty

10-02-2007, 09:10 PM

Sweet Pea and Willie Pep are 1 and 2

Orishaman

10-02-2007, 09:11 PM

Sweet Pea and Willie Pep are 1 and 2

I say to you...not so fast....

SteveO

10-02-2007, 09:25 PM

Would you put prime James Toney on that list?

kg0208

10-02-2007, 09:34 PM

Sweet Pea, Loche and Pep are a close second and a tie, Benitez, then Wright. Wright is overrated as a defensive fighter. He is good, but he is not in the league of the aforementioned fighters.

Drew101

10-02-2007, 09:39 PM

1. Pep
2. Sweet Pea
3. Locce
4. Benitez
5. Wright

Judgement call on #1-#3...they're more or less interchangeable. El Radar's only a sliver behind. Wright's a distant fifth...but still pretyy damned good on defence.

kg0208

10-02-2007, 09:43 PM

Grebfan9

10-02-2007, 09:43 PM

Jack Johnson, Tommy Loughran and Billy Conn deserve mention
as well.

Grebfan9
[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

hitman_hatton1

10-02-2007, 10:18 PM

pep was a great mover.

but i think pea was much more technical.

he had a multi layered defence.

when saddler took away pep's movement he found the target on pep.

even when u took the movement away from pea u struggled to get thru his guard. :verysad

Marnoff

10-02-2007, 10:21 PM

Agreed, Mayweather>Winky.

Aye, no question.

Orishaman

10-02-2007, 11:01 PM

Why?

For pure defense? How do you take that into consideration? Do you mean who was the best fighter who had great defense? Or simply the guy who did the best at not getting hit? Benitez didn't do anything except try not to get hit against Hearns, does that count as great defense? I think not.

1. Sweet Pea
2. Willie Pep
3. Nicolino Locche
4. Wilfred Benitez
5. Winky Wright

*first two are interchangable

If that the only fight you ever watch for Benitez then you should not comment on Wilfred....BTW last I check that fight was closer than what the score card showed....

I am simply saying, why without a doubt put Sweat Pea and Pep...hellI can tell you did you watch any of Sadler fights, Pep go punished a lot, he got hit far more than Hearns ever hit Benitez...

My List:

1. Sweat Pea
2. Loche
3. Pep
4. Benitez
5. Wright

Orishaman

10-02-2007, 11:03 PM

Orishaman

10-02-2007, 11:21 PM

It's "Sweet" Pea.

And no that is most certainly not the only Benitez fight I've seen thanks, and that fight was not close. Benitez had arguably better reflexes than even Pea, but his overall package was not as good, though he had more power. And it's interesting you consider Locche over Pep.

Well, I disagree with regarding Benitez vs. Hearns, it's been a while but I remember that Benitez won at least 6 rounds of the 15....now ..Pep...Pep had trouble with jabber since he could not move as fast as he needed side to side in order to evade the punches, he was slick and a greatone, but Sadler exploited taht deficiency...Sweet Pea didn't have any defensive flaws....Locche also was hard to find a defensive flawed, other than once he got into boxing age he lost his edge...

One person worth mentioning that I even would noted beforePBF for his importance in boxing History was Gene Tunney....who brought defensive technique and tactics to HW boxing

brooklyn1550

10-02-2007, 11:24 PM

1. Pernell Whitaker
2. Willie Pep
3. Nicolino Locche
4. Wilfred Benitez
5. Winky Wright

Orishaman

10-02-2007, 11:31 PM

Benitez won a maximum of three rounds in the Hearns fight and he won 5 rounds against Leonard. That's a total of 8 out of 30 rounds he won against the two best fighters he faced. Had he not beat a past prime Duran who was 3 classes above his best weightclass he would not have a signature win. Benitez is one of the most overrated if not THE most overrated fighter in history.

Dude...what fight did you fight, becuase you were not watching the Benitez vs. Hearns fight nor the SRL v. Benites..which the turn point was the head butt that cuase the cut on Wilfred forehead....unbeleivable how you guys can make those claims...fucking pugilistic amnesia...damm contegious!!

Orishaman

10-02-2007, 11:43 PM

Yeah and you got it, Benitez's display against Hearns was pathetic and he also got hammered by Ray, headbutt excuse or not.

You are the one spreading that desease all over the ESB....BTW...there's no cure for Pugilistic Amnesia...

Dude you can watch the fight on YouTube and scored it all over again and see waht you come of with...if you watch with parcial eyes rather than prejudicial and esculpatory eyes...

bigtime9

10-02-2007, 11:45 PM

any list that doesn't have floyd at the top is garbage.

kg0208

10-02-2007, 11:46 PM

I don't feel Benitez-Hearns was close at all. I am not even sure Benitez fully trained for that fight the way he looked. He fought better against Leonard. But they were different puzzles to solve.

kg0208

10-02-2007, 11:50 PM

Oh daym you tell em !

Sugar Ray Floyd is coming to take Hatton's heart.

Mayweather isn't as good as Pep or Whitaker defensively IMO. He has other attributes where he may be superior.

brooklyn1550

10-02-2007, 11:51 PM

any list that doesn't have floyd at the top is garbage.

I never would have expected this...especially coming from you.

Orishaman

10-02-2007, 11:53 PM

Maywether is not a shifter/weaving like Loche, Benitez, or Sweet Pea, he relies on his speed, sure he is a good defesive boxer but becuase atheletism and not sweet science knowledge....

Orishaman

10-02-2007, 11:55 PM

I don't have time now, but I'm willing to score the Hearns fight with you round by round sometime tomorrow.

One judge had it a draw, that has to be the worst score in the history of the sport...well it was a majority desicion...I am good for it can;t tomorrow, maybe tomorrow night..but you are on

kg0208

10-03-2007, 12:16 AM

I agree, those two guys are superior defensively but Floyd obviously has the better offense than Pep. Personally even after viewing the sweet pea career set again, I still don't think he has a better offensive game than floyd.

He has a different offensive game than Mayweather. He throws volumes of punches and goes for scoring in a different method.

Polymath

10-03-2007, 12:33 AM

NOT Winky, anyway.

Tons of fighters can fight like WInky: high guard, dont ever commit fully, dont load up and throw single shots. For it to work effectively you HAVE to have at least some size advantage: Winky hasnt won a fight convincingly at 160 or above yet. He even got busted up by the inept wild swinging Soliman.

I'd take two current fighters: Mayweather & Toney.

werety

10-03-2007, 02:01 AM

Mayweather definitely should be above Wright. Wright just has long arms in proportion to his upperbody and thats about it.

PJD3

10-03-2007, 02:13 AM

any list that doesn't have floyd at the top is garbage.
kidd you you need to look up PEP, El Radar "The Name Should Speak For It's Self", And really check out Sweet Pea again, and Macho Camacho.
James Light Outs, Geney Tunney "Old Schooler", and Chris Byrd were great defensivly at HW
mayweather has some skills but runnning and doing the most not to get hit while donig the least to win is not being a defensive wizard:dead
There's is a line floyd has to get behind.
ALOT THOSE GUYS WOULD SAY HIS FIGHTS ARE GARABAGE, I know Toney, Pea, and Macho have!

Alo2006

10-03-2007, 02:18 AM

U can't mention Defense without mentioning Mayweather's name :yep

Alo2006

10-03-2007, 02:21 AM

Maywether is not a shifter/weaving like Loche, Benitez, or Sweet Pea, he relies on his speed, sure he is a good defesive boxer but becuase atheletism and not sweet science knowledge....

I disagree, Mayweather does more than shoulder roll. He bob and weave as well :yep

drunkenspaniard

10-03-2007, 03:01 AM

I've heard Willie Pep was in some sort of accident halfway during hsi career and before he fought Saddler. Did he have better movement prior to the accident?

Rollo

10-03-2007, 04:03 AM

Pep and Pea both aspires to be number one.

Drew101

10-03-2007, 01:07 PM

Mayweather isn't as good as Pep or Whitaker defensively IMO. He has other attributes where he may be superior.

His defensive ability is considerably more multi-layered that Wright's though. He's probably on par with Benitez in terms of defensive ability...Benitez just tended to rely upon his a little more in terms of style.

Danny Ocean

10-03-2007, 01:08 PM

winky wright shudnt be on that list

kg0208

10-03-2007, 01:09 PM

His defensive ability is considerably more multi-layered that Wright's though. He's probably on par with Benitez in terms of defensive ability...Benitez just tended to rely upon his a little more in terms of style.

Well yeah, I already mentioned that Wright shouldn't be compared to the others. But the OP didn't sau these were the 5 best ever, so I didn't need to remove him, just put him at the bottom of the list. Mayweather is better than Wright.

MrSmall

10-03-2007, 01:27 PM

Toney is better than Wright, as is PBF.

Minotauro

10-03-2007, 02:22 PM

kg0208

10-03-2007, 02:23 PM

I always felt Locche had the best defensive due to the fact not only was he extremely hard to hit but used very little energy he was never seen to be running so it looks effective for judges as well. But having him Pep and Pea in the top 3 is the only way I see it in any order really.
I think that may have made him a better offensive fighter since he was expending less energy through less movement leaving him in a good position to counter. But I think he was slightly easier to hit than Whitaker.