Max Baer vs. Foreman

[cross_trainer]

Make a strong case for Baer winning this fight.

[Seamus]

I actually had a dream about this match-up last night. No kidding.

My argument for Baer's chances in this fight are workrate, size and chin, with the bonus he has a great punch. These are elements that have given Big George problems.

I still think George would win most times, but Baer's chances are better than most might imagine.

[mattdonnellon]

For Baer read Lyle?
Lyle, Better boxer than Max, lesser puncher, Less stamina u know something not a bad match-up.
Still George too strong and a better boxer.

[Bummy Davis]

Baer was a more down the pike type of puncher and George wa a wide swinger but George had that early start. I think Max hit harder than Lyle but he was also inconsistant. I would lean towards Foreman but would not count Max out to KO Foreman

[MRBILL]

Baer's best chances are if both guys are pitted when they were peaked........ Baer of 1932 to 1934 and Foreman from 1972 to 1974 were close in skills, power and size; Foreman a hair bigger........ The aged Foreman of 1991 and 257 pounds was bigger, slower but more so skilled and patient....... '91 Foreman beats '33 Baer with smarts and savvy, and then, power..........

MR.BILL

[Russell]

Baer was a more down the pike type of puncher

:lol::lol:

[Seamus]

:lol::lol:

Yeah, I don't think Max could throw a down the pike punch by accident.

[Russell]

Yeah, that was my reaction as well.

Max was a heavyweight Merqui Sosa. :lol:

[MRBILL]

Well, a young Foreman only through ONE punch straight down the pike himself, and that was his thudding left-jab....... Everything else was wide in the 1970s......... By the 1990s, Charlie Shipes, Archie Moore and Dundee got George Foreman straightened out and more so relaxed........ Too bad Foreman was over 40 then....... Still, Foreman is perhaps the greatest 40+ year old fighter with a seriousness in the ring than history ever saw...... I cannot think of anyone as strong, powerful and able to absorb punishment like the 40+ Foreman........ Incredible.....

Mad Max Schmeling was washed up and losing to Louis Nova by KO / TKO at the tender age of 32 in 1941---circa........

MR.BILL

[janitor]

Baer's stamina and durability could potentialy win this for him. He had a chin like cinder block and had proven ability to fight for 20 rounds.

If the slugfest went into round six then I would probably shift the betting in favour of Baer.

Aside from that, fights between two big sluggers of this type can get prety random, and prety backward and forward. You just wouldn't know what was going to happen.

I would be curious to see which version of Baer showed up. He could be sneaky when he chose to, particularly later in his career.

[The Mongoose]

I would only favor Foreman because Baer was so inconsisent, if he shows up for a fight he could present Big George with some serious problems. When he wanted to he was excellent at parrying punches and timing that quick loopy right hand over the top...not unlike the punch Lyle badly hurt Foreman with early.


Faded but motivated Baer scores a shocking stoppage over 29-1 never stopped 6'3" 207 lb Pat Comiskey, a than 20 year old well regarded power punching prospect with an 86% KO ratio.

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[mr. magoo]

Baer's stamina and durability could potentialy win this for him. He had a chin like cinder block and had proven ability to fight for 20 rounds.

If the slugfest went into round six then I would probably shift the betting in favour of Baer.

Aside from that, fights between two big sluggers of this type can get prety random, and prety backward and forward. You just wouldn't know what was going to happen.

I would be curious to see which version of Baer showed up. He could be sneaky when he chose to, particularly later in his career.


The stamina factor would basically be Baer's best advantage. If he could weather the storm for several rounds, and even keep Foreman at bay with some big shots of his own, he might be able to wear him down for a late stoppage.

I do however feel that Foreman's endurance problems are unduely over stated. He really only gassed once in his first career, which consisted of 47 pro bouts. The single incident came against the greatest fighter of all time in a match where they were fighting in unusually hot conditions.. What's more, it wasn't like Foreman just ran out of gas the minute the bell rang for the 8th round. He was punching himself out since the word go. People also forget that Ali had to pay for that victory by taking an ungodly number of hard shots before his opportunity finally came. Its reasonable to say that Foreman's stamina was very poor, but I would be very careful about betting money on just anyone who could merely extend him beyond the 5th round.

[TheGreatA]

The only technique I've seen Max Baer display is in this short instructional documentary:

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Baer stated that he would prove everyone wrong by defeating better boxers with simple slugging. Against a young Foreman he wouldn't necessarily be facing a better boxer though. This match-up is pretty much all about strength, power, the ability to take it and thus I'd favour Foreman slightly.

Foreman could land the jab at will on Baer but Baer was willing to take some in order to get his right hand in. He wouldn't have much trouble landing it on Foreman. Lyle didn't.

[turpinr]

Yeah, that was my reaction as well.

Max was a heavyweight Merqui Sosa. :lol::lol::lol:maxie baer=willie pep

[Duodenum]

Carnera had comparable size and physical strength to Foreman's, if not the punching power. (Vastly superior endurance to George though.) Max had a reverse gear, and he skipped backwards liberally with Primo. He could use movement well enough to take Foreman into deep water, and was absolutely capable of replicating the strategy Tommy Morrison used on an aged Big George. Unlike Jimmy Young, Maxie had the power to hurt Foreman early, and could use it whenever George's efficient ring cutting threatened to compromise his own stamina. Max had faster hands, and a grotesquely underrated left hook.

Individual bombs didn't seem to trouble Maxie, and he clowned his way through some massive thuds from Galento. Foreman could not expect to stop him as the result of a single shot, and would almost certainly expend himself early if he did somehow manage to stun Baer. It's critical to recognize that the reverse would not be true. Despite his opening round assault on a shell shocked Carnera, Maxie held plenty in reserve, more than enough to last through 15 rounds. He was far, far more relaxed in the ring than a peak Foreman.

George would need to get inside Baer's head before they climbed into the ring. If he failed to intimidate Max beforehand (and only Louis did), then he'd be a dead duck if this one went beyond eight rounds. There is no way Foreman gets to the final bell if Baer is still standing at that point.

Keep in mind that only a peaking Louis was able to take Max out, and it never looked like Baer's senses were compromised even then. (Only at the end of the Nova rematch does he appear in genuine distress.)

My belief is that Max does defeat George. His hands were faster in exchanges of power, he was generally more relaxed, had sufficient height, reach and mobility, and 20 round stamina. Foreman's best chance to win would be to advance behind his jab, and confine himself largely to boxing with that offensive weapon alone. Baer did not usually punch on the move, preferring to set himself first.

While Magoo is correct in pointing out that Foreman's endurance problems are overstated (and in fact it was Lyle who finally collapsed for the count from exhaustion in their classic war), Maxie is not "just anyone who could merely extend him beyond the 5th round" (and I fully agree with him that this blind assumption is excessively simplistic), but somebody who maintained sufficient late round power to get the job done when the time came.

[Flea Man]

If Max clown at mid-range, waiting to start swinging away, Foreman will pound him with his heavy jab.

If Baer tries to open up Foreman will land those heavy, clubbing blows.

However, in response to the OP, Baer is faster: he had a good chin and with less protection with less padded gloves there can be a case made that Foreman may never have received such telling blows.

So yeah, Prime Foreman may be outgunned. But he still showed enough durability, power and forcefulness that I dour he'd lose. Baer is in with someone even more dangerous than him.

For the record I also think Foreman would smash through Dempsey.

[Flea Man]

Carnera-more endurance than Foreman? Apart from Ali, when did you ever see Foreman not stick it out?

Also, seems toe that Carnera has 'opted out' in at least two fights (Louis and Baer) at least according to the commentary and apparent signalling of Carnera to the ref.

[Duodenum]

Carnera-more endurance than Foreman? Apart from Ali, when did you ever see Foreman not stick it out?He finished very weakly against Young as well, but again, that was in part due to a foolish choice on his part not to get properly acclimated to the heat and humidity of Puerto Rico. But yes, Primo very obviously had more endurance than Foreman. He wore down Tommy Loughran over 15 rounds in a clear triumph of attrition, and twice decisioned 20 round veterans Paulino Uzcudun and King Levinski. He had enough energy to try helping Schaaf to his feet after 13 rounds of action, and Ernie's fatally impaired physical condition does not reflect on Carnera's preparedness to go the distance. Art Lasky and Jim Maloney are also credible distance performances. He came from behind to stop Impellitiere late. (I'm not convinced that Foreman would last 15 rounds against the Uzcudun who knocked out Wills and decisioned Baer.) Sharkey dropped Primo early in their first match with an FOTC type bomb of a hook, and battered the snot out of him, but couldn't wear him down enough to get a stoppage before 15 rounds were up.Also, seems to me that Carnera has 'opted out' in at least two fights (Louis and Baer) at least according to the commentary and apparent signaling of Carnera to the ref.But nobody ever counted ten over Carnera. With one bad ankle, he mounted a credible rally against Baer, and packed it in when it became clear that he had no chance to successfully defend his title (and Max was photographed visiting Primo in Carnera's hospital room the following day). It looked to me as though Carnera was genuinely out of it after getting to his feet following the final knockdown from Louis, hanging on the ropes. He wasn't in position to defend himself, and there was no mandatory eight count, leaving the referee with little choice.

[TheGreatA]

Carnera-more endurance than Foreman? Apart from Ali, when did you ever see Foreman not stick it out?

Also, seems toe that Carnera has 'opted out' in at least two fights (Louis and Baer) at least according to the commentary and apparent signalling of Carnera to the ref.

I still think that Carnera had a ton of heart to endure as much as he did in those fights.

According to Carnera himself, he didn't quit against Baer. He said he was complaining of Baer's fouling.

[Duodenum]

According to Carnera himself, he didn't quit against Baer. He said he was complaining of Baer's fouling.This makes sense, considering the fact he got up instead of taking the count. (Ironic though, as Primo was no choir boy when it came to questionable tactics. His best punch against Loughran was a backhand right, and his best maneuver was stepping on Tommy's feet.)

[janitor]

This makes sense, considering the fact he got up instead of taking the count. (Ironic though, as Primo was no choir boy when it came to questionable tactics. His best punch against Loughran was a backhand right, and his best maneuver was stepping on Tommy's feet.)

While he was training for Carnera, Max Baer had his sparring partners stamp on his feet to get him used to it.

[Flea Man]

I still think that Carnera had a ton of heart to endure as much as he did in those fights.

According to Carnera himself, he didn't quit against Baer. He said he was complaining of Baer's fouling.

I wasn't suggesting he didn't have heart, he clearly had it in abundance (I actually think Carnera gets underrated, I see some real quality in him at times,could compete today IMO) just stating that I felt any he did have would not be drastically bigger than Foreman's heart and will.

Fair enough points in ALL the responses thus far, thanks for filling in gaps.

I certainly wasn't saying Carnera was any less of a fighter. The beatings he takes leading up to the end of the both of those fights is more than an indication of his heart, as the other fights were proof of his ability.

Can someone shed some light on the damage he sustained to his ankle in the Baer fight? I was rewatching it recently and to be honest, he gets bundles over and knocked down in so many awkward and heavy ways that I found it hard to determine at which point he hurt himself and which ankle he was favouring. Baer is brutal in that fight, particularly the first overhand right, a perfect example of how deadly he was with it.

Back to the OP, and as correctly noted thus far, a major weapon in any strategy for Baer to beat Foreman. I think 'Prime' George was still durable and tough enough to gather his senses under the inevitable rushes of Baer, where shots are winged in fast and from odd angles, and every shot is designed to bash your head in.

Besides the device of the thread (to devise a scenario in which Baer would/could win) I actually think it's a very good hypothetical matchup; one I hadn't considered before and which I'm enjoying playing over in my mind. Two of favourite offensive-minded Heavyweights.

[Sardu]

Max had an excellent chin and would get in some good licks but.... Foreman will eventually overwhelm Baer.... It takes someone like Ali or Young to beat Foreman.... Baer has the wrong style of fighting and would get kayoed.... Larry Holmes is someone who had the style to defeat Big George.... Baer is a slugger and Foreman was practically impossible to outslug.

Foreman KO 5 Baer