Floyd Mayweather Jr. .Vs. Mickey Walker @ 147 [Archive]

Flea Man

01-28-2010, 08:53 AM

I like walker in this one in a competitive decision I know floyd hasnt got the best resume at this weight but in all honesty i think to say its a mismatch is quite silly.

Why?

In terms of attributes (at 147) Floyd doesn't have a high enough workrate, the power, and goes back to the ropes too much. Barring him running away the whole fight and shooting the jab he isn't going to stunt Walkers workrate, and has 0% chance of gaining his respect in the power department.

If Walker doesn't bust him up he wins a decision just because he'll throw more punches. And Floyds shoulder roll is not going to be enough to stop Walker from landing on him.

One fighter is arguably a top ten fighter of all time. One fighter doesn't make the top 50.

One guy fought good-to-great fighters from welter to HEAVY!

One guy fought decent-to-good fighters from 130 to 135. Since then he has fought guys that (skillset wise) really can't challenge him, or guys that were past their best.

Call me a hater, but I'm objective. I just find it hard to see what all the fuss is about with Floyd Jr? People say 'look at his skills' but I'd like to see him implement them against an atg fighter.

Bing

01-28-2010, 11:19 AM

Why?

In terms of attributes (at 147) Floyd doesn't have a high enough workrate, the power, and goes back to the ropes too much. Barring him running away the whole fight and shooting the jab he isn't going to stunt Walkers workrate, and has 0% chance of gaining his respect in the power department.

If Walker doesn't bust him up he wins a decision just because he'll throw more punches. And Floyds shoulder roll is not going to be enough to stop Walker from landing on him.

One fighter is arguably a top ten fighter of all time. One fighter doesn't make the top 50.

One guy fought good-to-great fighters from welter to HEAVY!

One guy fought decent-to-good fighters from 130 to 135. Since then he has fought guys that (skillset wise) really can't challenge him, or guys that were past their best.

Call me a hater, but I'm objective. I just find it hard to see what all the fuss is about with Floyd Jr? People say 'look at his skills' but I'd like to see him implement them against an atg fighter.

I can understand your points but for me anyway Floyd displays ATG skills I agree that Floyds low output is the reason Walker will win but I could see him winning some rounds at least and I also believe that if he went totally defensive he'd be extremely difficult to KO. I'll leave the hater shouts back at the general where they belong lol. Im a big Floyd fan and his lack of resume is really disapointing considering I think he'd beat his contempories. As I said your argument is a valid one but i respectfully disagree with the nature of the defeat.

Flea Man

01-28-2010, 11:52 AM

Fair play and nice response :good

Drew101

01-29-2010, 02:13 PM

Hmm.

Walker may be far more relevant and greater in terms of a historical ranking, but he could still struggle against slick boxers (Brtton beat him in the first fight, Latzo dethroned him, Rosenbloom and Loughran both decisioned him, and Flowers by all accounts was robbed of the decision), and Floyd certainly possesses the types of tools that caused the Toy Bulldog to struggle in some of the fights that he had.

Granted, Walker had success fighting at higher weights, but he was still the same and his style is one that has caused Mayweather to have problems, but by the same token, Mayweather's hand and foot speed, accurate right hand, and underrated toughness should serve him pretty well and make this pretty interesting.

If this were middleweight, Walker would probably win going away, with Mayweather going into survival mode. But at welterweight, I think Mayweather has a shot of winning enough rounds to secure a decision, and at the very least makes it damned close on the cards.

McGrain

01-29-2010, 02:16 PM

Mayweather wins on cuts, apparently.

I think Floyd might put on an absolute clinic defensively to lose a wide decision. But it's also very possible that he'll fail to rise to the occasion against a great welterweight - in all likelyhood we'll never know - and get knocked out at some point.

PowerPuncher

01-29-2010, 05:56 PM

McGrain

01-29-2010, 05:58 PM

He "got bigger" aged 25?

janitor

01-29-2010, 06:21 PM

Walker would eat his cornflakes out of Mayweathers upturned skull.

Stonehands89

01-29-2010, 06:25 PM

Mayweather UD - better skills, Walker cant outbox him. Walker did well at higher weights because he got bigger, he wasnt big as a WW so doesnt have the size advantage, chin advantage or scary power to worry about
Your bias never fails to betray you. I'd bet my house that you write "Mayweather UD" and then make the rest up.

"Walker did well at higher weights because he got bigger"?

"He wasn't big at WW so doesn't have the size advantage, chin advantage, or scary power..."?

That's not reasoning -it's utter nonsense.

Mayweather, a speed-demon and savant, has a chance against any welterweight who ever lived, but you seem to have no idea why in this case.

Stonehands89

01-29-2010, 06:26 PM

Walker would eat his cornflakes out of Mayweathers upturned skull.
oh man. I have to steal that analogy.

Gesta

01-29-2010, 06:47 PM

PowerPuncher

01-29-2010, 08:08 PM

Your bias never fails to betray you. I'd bet my house that you write "Mayweather UD" and then make the rest up.

"Walker did well at higher weights because he got bigger"?

"He wasn't big at WW so doesn't have the size advantage, chin advantage, or scary power..."?

That's not reasoning -it's utter nonsense.

Mayweather, a speed-demon and savant, has a chance against any welterweight who ever lived, but you seem to have no idea why in this case.

If you knew anything about weight making you'd know your weakened by taking your body to a lower weight. Putting on weight in the right improves power/chin/strength that helps him compete at higher weights. Thus his success at higher weights doesnt necessarily make him a bad ass at the lower weight, otherwise

People are acting like Walker was a Welterweight bad ass, and he wasnt, and he had inferior skills.

Walker has little in the way of advantages in this match up, we all know who the better faster boxer is and its not Walker

Now dont u have the pages of a Duran centrefold to unstick?

brando18b4h

01-29-2010, 08:50 PM

Walker all the to a late rd stoppage.

Stonehands89

01-29-2010, 10:05 PM

If you knew anything about weight making you'd know your weakened by taking your body to a lower weight. Putting on weight in the right improves power/chin/strength that helps him compete at higher weights. Thus his success at higher weights doesnt necessarily make him a bad ass at the lower weight, otherwise

People are acting like Walker was a Welterweight bad ass, and he wasnt, and he had inferior skills.

Walker has little in the way of advantages in this match up, we all know who the better faster boxer is and its not Walker

Now dont u have the pages of a Duran centrefold to unstick?
You need new material.

Powder-Puncher is less of a historian and more of a poser than he would ever admit. And he's no analyst, no matter how hard he tries.

But it is fun to contradict him. No argumentation is necessary because anyone who knows what they are talking about out here knows how limited he is. He is totally immune to reason and logic.

Thankfully there are only a few jerk-offs on the Classic forum. But this guy takes the title these days.

TheGreatA

01-29-2010, 10:52 PM

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Mickey Walker training for Harry Greb fight.

McGrain

01-30-2010, 04:39 AM

I love that picture.

Flea Man

01-30-2010, 05:25 AM

Mayweather: according to power puncher a 'savant' :lol:

PowerPuncher

01-30-2010, 09:16 AM

You need new material.

Powder-Puncher is less of a historian and more of a poser than he would ever admit. And he's no analyst, no matter how hard he tries.

But it is fun to contradict him. No argumentation is necessary because anyone who knows what they are talking about out here knows how limited he is. He is totally immune to reason and logic.

Thankfully there are only a few jerk-offs on the Classic forum. But this guy takes the title these days.

Talking to yourself stalker, I know you have a habit of stalking men you need counciling. I'm sure you're still :| over being put in your place last time out

Answer the post or STFU gimp boy, this forum is about sharing opinions on boxing, not stalking, Im the only 1 who's looked at this fight stylistically and looked at, but I suppose that'd go over your head

PowerPuncher

01-30-2010, 09:26 AM

McGrain

01-30-2010, 09:34 AM

PowerPuncher

01-30-2010, 09:50 AM

This idea that Mayweather has a stylistic advantage over Walker is utterly spastic. He was in a life and death struggle with Castillo, who presumably wasn't faster than him. Walker has much better pressure, a much better chin, and has a size advantage whatever you might think about the 15lb spurt he put on on his 25th birthday.

It wasnt a struggle in the rematch and Hatton was supposed to be a better Castillo and we saw what happened there, DLH used the Castillo strategy and got outlanded 2-1. Walker had trouble with the boxer types he faced

As for the weight, ofcourse Walker is weaker at 147 then when he didnt have to make 147 and he could carry more mass around. He got bigger and stronger as his career went on much like say Manny Pacquaio

Do you think Manny Pacquaio beats Salvador Sanchez at 126lbs just because he gained 20lbs of muscle mass and had success at higher weights? I dont

Stonehands89

01-30-2010, 10:37 AM

Talking to yourself stalker, I know you have a habit of stalking men you need counciling. I'm sure you're still :| over being put in your place last time out

Answer the post or STFU gimp boy, this forum is about sharing opinions on boxing, not stalking, Im the only 1 who's looked at this fight stylistically and looked at, but I suppose that'd go over your head
My new year's resolution is to refrain from debating dunces. And I'm not "stalking" you, clown, I'm harassing you.

PowerPuncher

01-30-2010, 10:46 AM

My new year's resolution is to refrain from debating dunces. And I'm not "stalking" you, clown, I'm harassing you.

Well you broke your new years resolution when you started talking to yourself :yep

McGrain

01-30-2010, 10:50 AM

It wasnt a struggle in the rematch

No, but it was in the first fight. Castillo literally isn't fit to hold Walker's j-strap. That's the gulf in class we are talking about. My congratulations to Floyd for doing well in the rematch, but come on, it doesn't bode well for him.

Walker had trouble with the boxer types he faced

Which smaller counter-punchers did he struggle with?

As for the weight, ofcourse Walker is weaker at 147 then when he didnt have to make 147

That wasn't your original claim. Your original claim seemed to be a doomed effort to iron out the size advantage Walker would so clearly have. The man carried 175lbs.

Do you think Manny Pacquaio beats Salvador Sanchez at 126lbs just because he gained 20lbs of muscle mass and had success at higher weights? I dont

Yeah, definitely, that's what i think :roll:

ChrisPontius

01-30-2010, 11:14 AM

Mayweather: according to power puncher a 'savant' :lol:

What's funny about that?

This thread inspired me to re-watch Schmeling vs Walker. Great fight that one. Schmeling was good.

PowerPuncher

01-30-2010, 11:18 AM

1. No, but it was in the first fight. Castillo literally isn't fit to hold Walker's j-strap. That's the gulf in class we are talking about. My congratulations to Floyd for doing well in the rematch, but come on, it doesn't bode well for him.

2. Which smaller counter-punchers did he struggle with?

3. That wasn't your original claim. Your original claim seemed to be a doomed effort to iron out the size advantage Walker would so clearly have. The man carried 175lbs.

Yeah, definitely, that's what i think :roll:

1. And? fighters have bad nights, in terms of ability there isnt a massive gulf in class from the limited footage Ive seen of Walker, he doesnt have much of a jab, which is essential in pressuring FMJ, otherwise he'll ust pick you apart
2. Who did he face that was a fast and defensively savy as Floyd? No one
3. Well the point is he isnt necessarly the bigger man, when both are at the WW limit, he has less height/reach here and he even weighed in as low as 144 earlier. Maybe Floyd would even be stronger than the WW Walker? Not saying he would but he might be

McGrain

01-30-2010, 11:30 AM

1. And? fighters have bad nights, in terms of ability there isnt a massive gulf in class from the limited footage Ive seen of Walker, he doesnt have much of a jab, which is essential in pressuring FMJ, otherwise he'll ust pick you apart

Based upon what? What top-ine pressure fighter "without much of a jab" has he faced? You do this with all your favourite fighters, present truths with no basis in reality whilst on the other hand insisting that they might be able to fight at a high workrate/fight 15 rounds/deploy a jab depending on what you're talking about. Castillo's jab isn't extraordinary, and he dominated Floyd for spells.

2. Who did he face that was a fast and defensively savy as Floyd? No one

Greb. Greb was also stronger and bigger, though.

As for the ones he beat, Lew Tendler was very savy and Britton was a defensive genius. Were either fast as Floyd? No, but both proved themselves tougher and with better punch resistance, too. They certainly have provided for Walker stiffer tests relevant to the discussion than Castillo did for Floyd and neither decision is debatable, either.

For the second time, which sjmaller counter-punchers did Walker struggle with? You've claimed Walker struggled with relevant types, who?

Maybe Floyd would even be stronger than the WW Walker?

:rofl

Stonehands89

01-30-2010, 11:46 AM

Well you broke your new years resolution when you started talking to yourself :yep
I'll give you that.

JudgeDredd

01-30-2010, 11:53 AM

Mayweather doesn't like a rough, physical fight, Walker demands it. Result - Walker by 10th round K.O.

PowerPuncher

01-30-2010, 12:39 PM

1. Based upon what? What top-ine pressure fighter "without much of a jab" has he faced? You do this with all your favourite fighters, present truths with no basis in reality whilst on the other hand insisting that they might be able to fight at a high workrate/fight 15 rounds/deploy a jab depending on what you're talking about. Castillo's jab isn't extraordinary, and he dominated Floyd for spells.

2. Greb. Greb was also stronger and bigger, though.

3. As for the ones he beat, Lew Tendler was very savy and Britton was a defensive genius. Were either fast as Floyd? No, but both proved themselves tougher and with better punch resistance, too. They certainly have provided for Walker stiffer tests relevant to the discussion than Castillo did for Floyd and neither decision is debatable, either.

For the second time, which sjmaller counter-punchers did Walker struggle with? You've claimed Walker struggled with relevant types, who?

:rofl

1. Based on the fact a jab is needed to neutralise speed, as is timing. Hatton ofcourse didnt have much of a jab and neither did Chavez, Mosley doesnt either, and Mosley's strength is way in excess of Walker, the mans powerlifts are staggering. Ofcourse he hasnt beat Mosley yet.

2. So your picking a fighter you've never seen fight to being defensively better and faster than FMJ :lol: He doesnt look near as quick in his training footage and I doubt he was as hard to hit. He would be stronger, but again he isnt actually taller and doesnt have more height/reach than FMJ. And Greb won

3. What about the Latzo loss? Latzo is said to have won due to boxing skill.

Britton beat Walker and lost to him at the age of 37. I've never seen Britton, but doubt his speed/defense are on the same level, especially at 37. And no Walkers loss wasnt debatable :yep

Theres the losses Tendler was smaller only fighting at LW the year before and weighed in at 142, pretty much like Mayweather fighting Marquez. And no Tendler wasnt a patch on Floyd ability wise.

I dont think both are tougher tests than Prime Castillo who had around 15lbs on Floyd on fight night in floyds first LW fight

We'll see how Floyd deals with a man far stronger than Walker in his next fight

TheGreatA

01-30-2010, 12:41 PM

I wouldn't say that Walker had no jab. He seemed to win the Ace Hudkins fight mostly with his jab. Only a fool would try to outjab Tommy Loughran or Max Schmeling while giving away as much as he did in height and reach so I wouldn't judge him based on those fights.

Also from the footage I've seen of Mike McTigue, admittedly an old version of him, he seemed to employ a similar "shoulder roll" defense and was a good counter puncher. Walker beat a younger McTigue and also KO'd him in one round.

Drew101

01-30-2010, 01:02 PM

This idea that Mayweather has a stylistic advantage over Walker is utterly spastic. He was in a life and death struggle with Castillo, who presumably wasn't faster than him. Walker has much better pressure, a much better chin, and has a size advantage whatever you might think about the 15lb spurt he put on on his 25th birthday.

See, the problem with this is the fact that a) Mayweather adapted nicely in the rematch, and won a clear decision, and b) Walker could be outboxed and outfoxed by fighters who generally relied on movement rather than power to win fights.

I'm not saying Walker can't win, but I do think that Floyd has his moments, and makes this interesting on the cards at the very least. Not a blowout or a whitewash either way, imo.

McGrain

01-30-2010, 01:06 PM

1. Based on the fact a jab is needed to neutralise speed.

No, it's not. It's a grand thing to have, but it is in no way "needed". Marquez was recently countered to death over the top of his jab verus Mayweather. It's nice to have, but it's not "needed".

Mosley doesnt either, and Mosley's strength is way in excess of Walker, the mans powerlifts are staggering.

Based upon what? The infighting he did against HW's? No, that's Walker...

2. So your picking a fighter you've never seen fight to being defensively better and faster than FMJ :lol:

No. You didn't ask me to name a fighter that was "faster and defensively better". Once again you're subtley moving the goalposts in order that you'll be able to add an emoticon.

You asked me to name a fighter that was as good defensively and as fast. I assume you are looking for ballpark? I've never seen him fight, yes I think he matches the criteria.

He doesnt look near as quick in his training footage

:roll:

3. What about the Latzo loss? Latzo is said to have won due to boxing skill.

He beat Walker with counter-rushes, but he had to absorb huge punishment to do it. My impression of him is that he was as unlike Mayweather as it is possible for a fighter to be and still have "counter" in a paragraph describing.

Please don't tell me because someone with skill once beat Walker you think Mayweather will too?

Additionally, he fought at 175, and is hardly smaller. So no, not relevant.

Britton beat Walker and lost to him at the age of 37. I've never seen Britton, but doubt his speed/defense are on the same level, especially at 37.

His speed wasn't, but why do you think his defense wasn't it?

And no Walkers loss wasnt debatable :yep

I think it was not, but Britton had the power to almost knock Walker - who was only 20 - out in the first round, Walker took an age to recover. When he did he continued to rush Britton.

This is Walker,taking on a lock top 15 ww - top 5 for me - at the age of twenty.

Theres the losses Tendler was smaller only fighting at LW the year before and weighed in at 142, pretty much like Mayweather fighting Marquez. And no Tendler wasnt a patch on Floyd ability wise.

This is now scrabling for any kind of paralleles, you are literally just listing his losses. Tendler and Mayweather are similar? Fuck off.

I dont think both are tougher tests than Prime Castillo

:lol:

Yeah, there's no tougher test out there for a welter.

We'll see how Floyd deals with a man far stronger than Walker in his next fight

The strongest opponent Sugar has tested himself against is Margarito. Walker is on film in-fighitng with HW's. Mosley might be stronger than Walker, but he has never proven it.

Mantequilla

01-30-2010, 01:23 PM

Got to say i wasn't impressed by Floyd in the rematch agaisnt Castillo.

He seemed to be giving about as much effort as say... Zapata against Laciar, but got away with it because he was fighting a far lesss dynamic fighter, with plodding feet.He quite well could have stepped things up had Castillo offered more(this was the fight that showed Castillo was nowhere near great for me), but it's not the quality rematch preformance it's often portrayed as imo.The epitome of coasting.

PowerPuncher

01-30-2010, 01:38 PM

1. No, it's not. It's a grand thing to have, but it is in no way "needed". Marquez was recently countered to death over the top of his jab verus Mayweather. It's nice to have, but it's not "needed".

2. Based upon what? The infighting he did against HW's? No, that's Walker...

3. No. You didn't ask me to name a fighter that was "faster and defensively better". Once again you're subtley moving the goalposts in order that you'll be able to add an emoticon.

You asked me to name a fighter that was as good defensively and as fast. I assume you are looking for ballpark? I've never seen him fight, yes I think he matches the criteria.

4. :roll:He beat Walker with counter-rushes, but he had to absorb huge punishment to do it. My impression of him is that he was as unlike Mayweather as it is possible for a fighter to be and still have "counter" in a paragraph describing.

5. Please don't tell me because someone with skill once beat Walker you think Mayweather will too?

6. Additionally, he fought at 175, and is hardly smaller. So no, not relevant.

7. His speed wasn't, but why do you think his defense wasn't it?

8. I think it was not, but Britton had the power to almost knock Walker - who was only 20 - out in the first round, Walker took an age to recover. When he did he continued to rush Britton.

This is Walker,taking on a lock top 15 ww - top 5 for me - at the age of twenty.

9. This is now scrabling for any kind of paralleles, you are literally just listing his losses. Tendler and Mayweather are similar? Fuck off.

:lol:

Yeah, there's no tougher test out there for a welter.

10. The strongest opponent Sugar has tested himself against is Margarito. Walker is on film in-fighitng with HW's. Mosley might be stronger than Walker, but he has never proven it.

1. Just because a jab didnt work doesnt mean it isnt at least a vital set up tool

2. So based on that logic James Toney is the strongest middleweight of all time? He in fights all the time against mcuh bigger HWs

Also the Walker who in fought with HWs was 4years removed from the version at WW and a different fighter

3. Either way its exceedingly unlikely greb was either as fast or as defensively sound, especially after seeing his training footage but were speculating

4. either way it sounds like he outboxed him, have you watched it?

5. Walkers been outboxed, I see a better boxer in my view also outboxing him yes, why cant Mayweather do what Latzo did?

6. The fight was at 147, are we still playing the Mayweather is a small welterweight card compared to the same day weigh in welters?

7. Its hard to say without seeing Britton I can only speculate but at 37 his reflexs would be slowed, which is part of defense, also hes never listed with the top defensive fighters of all time, Floyd is

8. Hard to say as much without seeing him fight, but regardless he was past prime

9. Calm down I was comparing Marquez and Tendler, both having fought at LW within the year, both undersized at 142lbs

10. The Walker who fought Cruserweights had 30lbs more muscle mass, thats not the same as the WW version. Mosley has beastly strength for a 147lber and is known for 550lb deadlifts and 350lb benches

Flea Man

01-30-2010, 03:42 PM

Watching Walker vs Schmeling will show you all you need to know about how he approached them differently to Toney.

Clutching at straws, as usual.

Flea Man

01-30-2010, 03:44 PM

By the way The Rings article on Floyd vs Great Welters is awful.

It's like the author has used Boxrec as his primary source.

McGrain

01-30-2010, 03:56 PM

1. Just because a jab didnt work doesnt mean it isnt at least a vital set up tool

And exactly the same logic will help you to understand why he doesn't need an ATG jab to get this job done, if you chose to apply it.

2. So based on that logic James Toney is the strongest middleweight of all time? He in fights all the time against mcuh bigger HWs

If you watch them fight, you will see the difference (possibly)

Also the Walker who in fought with HWs was 4years removed from the version at WW and a different fighter

We have footage of Walker muscling with much bigger men; we have no footage of him muscling smaller men. Therefore, Sugar Mosley is stronger. Do you see the problem with your thinking?

3. Either way its exceedingly unlikely greb was either as fast or as defensively sound, especially after seeing his training footage but were speculating

I'd say he was faster pound for pound and just as difficult to hit overall. Certainly it would explain why he was consistantly able to outbox ATG fighters who are much bigger than him at their best weights, something Floyd has yet to do.

4. either way it sounds like he outboxed him

Only in the sense that any fighter who ever won a fight on points outboxed his oponent to dsomen degree. And to restate he's a VERY different fighter to Floyd Mayweather, so your original point is moot.

5. Walkers been outboxed, I see a better boxer in my view also outboxing him yes, why cant Mayweather do what Latzo did?

Why can't Mayweather endure a huge body beating, come back with forceful rushes that force Mickey Walker back across the ring, punch in bunches whilst swarming all over his opponent before enduring another huge body beating?

Seriously?

6. The fight was at 147, are we still playing the Mayweather is a small welterweight card compared to the same day weigh in welters?

The only difference between guys who weigh in on the same day and guys who weigh in 24 hours ahead is the longer spell for rehydration. NOTHING else. You overplay this card to such a degree it's become a ridiculous parody of itself.

The idea that Walker could get down to 130lbs in his early 20's is a fantasy that belongs specifically to your corner of the universe. Of course Walker is the bigger man, only a deluded fan-boy would dispute this.

9. Calm down I was comparing Marquez and Tendler, both having fought at LW within the year, both undersized at 142lbs

In that case for the FOURTH time, which smaller counter-punching specialists has Walker struggled with?

10. The Walker who fought Cruserweights had 30lbs more muscle mass, thats not the same as the WW version. Mosley has beastly strength for a 147lber and is known for 550lb deadlifts and 350lb benches

So for you, Mosley would have no problem in-fighting against A CW David Haye?

PowerPuncher

01-30-2010, 04:06 PM

Watching Walker vs Schmeling will show you all you need to know about how he approached them differently to Toney.

Clutching at straws, as usual.

If you mean getting outboxed, picked apart and dominated yes he did approach them differently ;) Toney was more than happy to fight inside against his HW opponents though, even though some were 60-70lbs heavier than Schmelling

And dont talk about clutching at straws when you avoid a retort as you slip away with your tail between your legs

janitor

01-30-2010, 04:09 PM

I tell you what.

Lets put Floyd Mayweather in with Jack Sharkey and then see how good he looks.

McGrain

01-30-2010, 04:11 PM

I tell you what.

Lets put Floyd Mayweather in with Jack Sharkey and then see how good he looks.

Perhaps we should think about putting him in with a truly great Welterweight first?

itrymariti

01-30-2010, 04:13 PM

By the way The Rings article on Floyd vs Great Welters is awful.

It's like the author has used Boxrec as his primary source.

I came across that awful pile of shit in a shop today. I think that woman sports presenter who said that Hopkins didn't count as a legend (on account of the fact that he'd had more than one loss) probably had better ideas about boxing.

PowerPuncher

01-30-2010, 04:25 PM

1. And exactly the same logic will help you to understand why he doesn't need an ATG jab to get this job done, if you chose to apply it.

2. If you watch them fight, you will see the difference (possibly)

3. We have footage of Walker muscling with much bigger men; we have no footage of him muscling smaller men. Therefore, Sugar Mosley is stronger. Do you see the problem with your thinking?

4. I'd say he was faster pound for pound and just as difficult to hit overall. Certainly it would explain why he was consistantly able to outbox ATG fighters who are much bigger than him at their best weights, something Floyd has yet to do.

5. Only in the sense that any fighter who ever won a fight on points outboxed his oponent to dsomen degree. And to restate he's a VERY different fighter to Floyd Mayweather, so your original point is moot.

6. Why can't Mayweather endure a huge body beating, come back with forceful rushes that force Mickey Walker back across the ring, punch in bunches whilst swarming all over his opponent before enduring another huge body beating?

Seriously?

7. The only difference between guys who weigh in on the same day and guys who weigh in 24 hours ahead is the longer spell for rehydration. NOTHING else. You overplay this card to such a degree it's become a ridiculous parody of itself.

The idea that Walker could get down to 130lbs in his early 20's is a fantasy that belongs specifically to your corner of the universe. Of course Walker is the bigger man, only a deluded fan-boy would dispute this.

8. In that case for the FOURTH time, which smaller counter-punching specialists has Walker struggled with?

9. So for you, Mosley would have no problem in-fighting against A CW David Haye?

1. If you dont understand the importance of a jab I dont know where to start. Simply put Walker will be hitting air allot

2. Toney doesnt come forward as much but he handles much bigger men, 60-70lbs heavier than Schmelling

3. Muscling a man isnt always effective, Hatton tried to muscle Mayweather and it didnt do him much good

4. I suppose Monzon, Armstrong and Arguello must be as fast as Mayweather then using your logic that achievement equals speed and defense. Your logic is nonesense, there is zero proof of Greb having great speed or defense. We know he had a great workrate. On tape he is not very fast

Floyds beaten plenty of bigger men Delahoya/Castillo/Corrales/Gatti all outweighed him between 10-15lbs in the ring

5. Your the 1 who gave an example of Greb as someone as fast and as defensively good as Mayweather

6. Mayweathers faced many body punchers, Hatton, Castillo, Corrales, Chavez, Gatti and now Mosley. Mayweather has withstood broken ribs in fights and has a great body defense, elbow blocking and ofcourse great evasiveness and countering skills. If Walker throws left hooks to the body the right elbo blocks and the right uppercut lands flush on Walkers chin on 1 motion

7. And they work harder to drain down for the most part. Compare the average heights now and in the 20s and the average measurements on division and you'll see todays fighters are bigger per division

Dont put words in my mouth I never said Walker makes 130, I do say Mayweather has grown into the 147lb division and is strong at the weight

8. Your right Walker hasnt fought anyone of Mayweathers ability and still picked up losses at WW, why do you keep calling Mayweather a small WW?

9. What part of 'we're talking about a welterweight and not a light heavyweight Walker' dont you understand? Walker also never fought a 6'3 220lb muscled heavywight either (and Haye was around 215 in the ringfor his Cruser fights), he fought 190lb ex-LHW Schmelling who kicked his ass pillar to post despite Walker only giving up 14lbs. If Mosley added 30lbs of muscle mass maybe he'd compete with LHWs, who knows. In terms of strength and power at 147lb Mosley owns Walker and most WWs in history

janitor

01-30-2010, 04:30 PM

Walker also never fought a 6'3 220lb muscled heavywight either

Wrong.

Go back and look at his record.

By the way Walker fought five men over 200 lbs and only one of them made it out of the first round.

Flea Man

01-30-2010, 04:31 PM

Tail between my legs?

What is the point of running away from one of the most inept and biased posters on the forum?

Flea Man

01-30-2010, 04:32 PM

Wrong.

Go back and look at his record.

Bearcat Wright?

PowerPuncher

01-30-2010, 04:32 PM

Perhaps we should think about putting him in with a truly great Welterweight first?

Delahoya going upto DLHs 154lb weight class, giving up 15lbs in weight, fighting with DLHs selection of gloves/ring size. But wait DLH was 34, the 37yo Britton was far nearer prime :nut I bet a 38yo Mosley is considered too old too :nut

PowerPuncher

01-30-2010, 04:33 PM

Wrong.

Go back and look at his record.

By the way Walker fought five men over 200 lbs and only one of them made it out of the first round.

Do you know the difference between muscle and fat? Walker beat a fat boy or 2 sure

janitor

01-30-2010, 04:35 PM

Bearcat Wright?

Wright was 210 lbs and walker climbed off the deck in the first round to beat and drop him.

Arthur De Kuh was 223 lbs and Walker anihilated him in 1 round. De Kuh was no world beater but he was at least a fringe contender.

PowerPuncher

01-30-2010, 04:35 PM

Tail between my legs?

What is the point of running away from one of the most inept and biased posters on the forum?

You're saying you run away from yourself too? I don't know why you do that, probably something to do with your retardation or a physcological condition, you should get it checked out

McGrain

01-30-2010, 04:44 PM

1. If you dont understand the importance of a jab I dont know where to start. Simply put Walker will be hitting air allot

I know a jab is important, and what is more you know that I know the jab is important. Why do you play these weird little games? My point is, just because Walker, like Castillo (who almost beat Mayweather and drew with him on my card) doesn't have an ATG jab, he can still win the fight. Given the huge amount that stands in Walker's favour, it is very probable.

2. Toney doesnt come forward as much but he handles much bigger men, 60-70lbs heavier than Schmelling

Not in the same way Walker handles them. Again, i'm not going to spend valuable time breaking down for you the different ways Toney and Walker handle HW's, hopefully you can see for yourself.

3. Muscling a man isnt always effective, Hatton tried to muscle Mayweather and it didnt do him much good

Hatton was smaller than Walker, and less strong. And yes, actually, it did do Hatton some good early in that fight.

4. I suppose Monzon, Armstrong and Arguello must be as fast as Mayweather then using your logic that achievement equals speed and defense. Your logic is nonesense, there is zero proof of Greb having great speed or defense. We know he had a great workrate.

:lol: Why does the testimony of men who fought and watched him constitute "no evidence"?!

Floyds beaten plenty of bigger men Delahoya/Castillo/Corrales/Gatti all outweighed him between 10-15lbs in the ring

None of those fighters are great, apart from arguably De La Hoya who was old and not fighting in his best weight division. As a reply to my original point this is pretty worthless.

5. Your the 1 who gave an example of Greb as someone as fast and as defensively good as Mayweather

And this point has absolutley no relevance to what i just said. I just said that you're comparing fighters that have nothing in common. What does Harry Greb have to do with it?!

6. Mayweathers faced many body punchers, Hatton, Castillo, Corrales, Chavez, Gatti and now Mosley. Mayweather has withstood broken ribs in fights and has a great body defense, elbow blocking and ofcourse great evasiveness and countering skills. If Walker throws left hooks to the body the right elbo blocks and the right uppercut lands flush on Walkers chin on 1 motion

This has NOTHING to do with what I just said!! What is your thining when you make these posts?! You're trying to say that Mayweather can replicate a style that he has never, ever produced int he ring and this is your response?

7. And they work harder to drain down for the most part. Compare the average heights now and in the 20s and the average measurements on division and you'll see todays fighters are bigger per division

Yes, often modern fighters are taller. Often old-time fighers were tall for the modern era.

Regardless, Walker was bigger than Floyd is :lol:

Dont put words in my mouth I never said Walker makes 130, I do say Mayweather has grown into the 147lb division and is strong at the weight

:lol:

I didn't say you did say that! Are you sure you are responding to the right person? :lol: I'm saying that the fact that Walker is incapable of making 130lbs at a time in his career that Mayweather made it with ease is proof that Walker is the bigger man. Only someone as blinded/biased as yourself would need to have this explained to them because it is patently obvious to everyone else on the forum.

8. Your right Walker hasnt fought anyone of Mayweathers ability and still picked up losses at WW, why do you keep calling Mayweather a small WW?

:lol: I haven't called him a smaller WW. I'm saying he's smaller than Walker.

And Mayweather is off a lesser calibre than men Walker beat at the weight, if Mayweather fights his entire remaining career at WW he won't overhaul Jack B in ATG rankings.

9. What part of 'we're talking about a welterweight and not a light heavyweight Walker' dont you understand?

I understand that flushing Walker's achievments post-welter would suit you, and I see no reason whatsoever to accomodate you. We can certainly learn about Walker from what's on film, thanks.

If Mosley added 30lbs of muscle mass maybe he'd compete with LHWs, who knows. In terms of strength and power at 147lb Mosley owns Walker and most WWs in history

Nope, he doesn't :good

McGrain

01-30-2010, 04:47 PM

Delahoya going upto DLHs 154lb weight class, giving up 15lbs in weight, fighting with DLHs selection of gloves/ring size. But wait DLH was 34, the 37yo Britton was far nearer prime :nut I bet a 38yo Mosley is considered too old too :nut

Oscar was a light-middle, not a welterweight.

Hence, he's never fought a great welterweight :good

PowerPuncher

01-30-2010, 05:21 PM

1. I know a jab is important, and what is more you know that I know the jab is important. Why do you play these weird little games? My point is, just because Walker, like Castillo (who almost beat Mayweather and drew with him on my card) doesn't have an ATG jab, he can still win the fight. Given the huge amount that stands in Walker's favour, it is very probable.

2. Not in the same way Walker handles them. Again, i'm not going to spend valuable time breaking down for you the different ways Toney and Walker handle HW's, hopefully you can see for yourself.

3. Hatton was smaller than Walker, and less strong. And yes, actually, it did do Hatton some good early in that fight.

4. :lol: Why does the testimony of men who fought and watched him constitute "no evidence"?!

5. None of those fighters are great, apart from arguably De La Hoya who was old and not fighting in his best weight division. As a reply to my original point this is pretty worthless.

6. And this point has absolutley no relevance to what i just said. I just said that you're comparing fighters that have nothing in common. What does Harry Greb have to do with it?!

7. This has NOTHING to do with what I just said!! What is your thining when you make these posts?! You're trying to say that Mayweather can replicate a style that he has never, ever produced int he ring and this is your response?

8. Yes, often modern fighters are taller. Often old-time fighers were tall for the modern era.

Regardless, Walker was bigger than Floyd is :lol:

:lol:

9. I didn't say you did say that! Are you sure you are responding to the right person? :lol: I'm saying that the fact that Walker is incapable of making 130lbs at a time in his career that Mayweather made it with ease is proof that Walker is the bigger man. Only someone as blinded/biased as yourself would need to have this explained to them because it is patently obvious to everyone else on the forum.

:lol: I haven't called him a smaller WW. I'm saying he's smaller than Walker.

10. And Mayweather is off a lesser calibre than men Walker beat at the weight, if Mayweather fights his entire remaining career at WW he won't overhaul Jack B in ATG rankings.

11. I understand that flushing Walker's achievments post-welter would suit you, and I see no reason whatsoever to accomodate you. We can certainly learn about Walker from what's on film, thanks.

12.Nope, he doesn't :good

1. The punch Castillo landed the most was the jab, which he used to set upbody shots in close. Personally I'd pick jab and speed as the keys for a similarly sized man to beat him, so I'd pick Hearns/Leonard over him at WW and probably Duran. Mayweather said about Hatton 'I'll never lose to a man without a jab' andwe didnt see Hatton landing any clean head shots

2. We'll put the aside, but I take you dont think Toney was too strong for Hagler and Monzon, despite the fact. I'm playing by your rules here. If Hagler/Monzon arent too weak, then why is Mayweather to Walker? That was the point

3. Hatton weighed in the ring between 155-160lb and was very stocky and strong. He pushed around the larger Collazo, Tyszu and yes Mayweather who was happy to fight hattons fight, I thought he'd look to use speed, move and keep it at range

4. Greb was fast, but no men have said he was as fast as FMJ, mainly because no men have seen both. It would be interestin to read comparisons of Robinson and Greb from men who saw both

What we d have proof of on film, is Greb apears alot slower than Mayweather and not as skilled.

5. Define great?? Castillo is 1 of the best LWs of the past 20years with a heck of a resume at the weight, Corrales was too for that matter. hatton was linear champ for 4 years beating Tyszu and Castillo and going undefeated at 43-0, albeit being protected from some.

6. You brought Greb up :fire

7. Mayweather will use his own style, just because. The man most similar to Mayweather in the era was Benny Leonard, but that fight didnt happen, so we cant compare, Leonard as probably smaller too

8 Indeed but on average fightes are getting bigger per weight class. Evenif Walker is the stronger man, thats something Mayweather has dealt with many times.

9. Main point I was trying to make is that floyd is bigger and stronger at 147lbs now than he was at 130lbs, hes a strong 147lber. Walker is weaker at 147lbs than he was at 170lbs, both have similar levels of muscle mass, Floyd has a lower percentage bodyfat

10. We're talking ability here and I hae no doubt a 28yo Mayweather is better than a 37yo Britton

11. Maybe Walker wasnt even prime at WW? If fighting LHWs proves Walker is stronger than other WWs then why did he need to add 25lbs of WWs? If you think Walkers strength was greater because he managed to compete at LHW weighing 170 why dont you think Pacquaio would be too strong/hard hitting for ATG FWs who didnt go upto WW like Pac? The 2 cases are pretty much the same both men added 25lbs of muscle to competeat a higher weight class, it doesnt make them better at the original weight class. That in essence was my point

McGrain

01-30-2010, 05:39 PM

1. The punch Castillo landed the most was the jab, which he used to set upbody shots in close. Personally I'd pick jab and speed as the keys for a similarly sized man to beat him, so I'd pick Hearns/Leonard over him at WW and probably Duran. Mayweather said about Hatton 'I'll never lose to a man without a jab' andwe didnt see Hatton landing any clean head shots

Hatton and Walker are polls apart, and Hatton did well enough to win several early rounds with his tactics.

Castillo almost beat Mayweather with a pressure plan and Walker is his superior.

This is the bottom line.

2. We'll put the aside, but I take you dont think Toney was too strong for Hagler and Monzon, despite the fact. I'm playing by your rules here. If Hagler/Monzon arent too weak, then why is Mayweather to Walker? That was the point

:lol: I'm assuming this is a joke? You ACTUALLY want me to explain the difference to you? Ok.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

At 3:20 you can see Walker close the distance on Schmeling, deliberately, and wrestle. During wrestling he forces him back on his heels and tries to make room for a punch. This is the type of thing Mosley, who is "definitely stronger" than Walker was able to do to Margarito :lol:

Shortly thereafter we see Mickey use his strength to prevent Schmeling for making his own space, although he has to stand straight up to do it, so his balance isn't going to be 100%. This is against a HW.

Now, here is Toney:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

In spite of his obesity, Toney is on the move permenantly. He's remaining as mobile as possible, staying out of the way of the stronger HW, he really wants to avoide going inside. Whenever Peter closes to mid-distance, he takes a step to avoid an inside encounter. When he gets pinned to the ropes, he uses upper-body movement to avoid getting caught up on the inside. When Peter (who is a pathetic in-fighter) closes the distance, he tuckes his head in and waits for the referee to seperate them or for Peter to break (which he does). When that space is contested (as it is with Toney resting) Peter pushes him back with ease. To his credit, Toney isn't trying to fight him in there.

This is a good plan. For me, it's a winning plan. It's also the reason your tortured analogy is off absolutley no use, and why it doesn't automatically make him to strong for Monzon :lol:

3. Hatton weighed in the ring between 155-160lb and was very stocky and strong.

:lol:

5. Define great?? Castillo is...

...not great.

6. You brought Greb up :fire

:lol: forget it.

7. Mayweather will use his own style, just because.

:lol:

Of course he will, that's exactly my point. Why are you babbling on about his reproducing the performance of the completely different fighters?!

Evenif Walker is the stronger man, thats something Mayweather has dealt with many times.

I'm well aware this is the closest you get to a concession. Word up!

9. Main point I was trying to make is that floyd is bigger and stronger at 147lbs now than he was at 130lbs, hes a strong 147lber. Walker is weaker at 147lbs than he was at 170lbs, both have similar levels of muscle mass, Floyd has a lower percentage bodyfat

Walker is the bigger man.

10. We're talking ability here and I hae no doubt a 28yo Mayweather is better than a 37yo Britton

I tend to agree. Still, i'm happy that Britton at that age was considerably better than everyone Money has beaten.

11. Maybe Walker wasnt even prime at WW?

I'm beginning to think he was, but there's definitely a very good case for the opposite.

None of that changes the fact that he has stylistic advantages, is more proven, is off a class that Mayweather has never mixed with, has mixed in Mayweather's class himself (ATG), is bigger.

It would be a massacre.

janitor

01-30-2010, 05:57 PM

Incidentaly Walker almost beat Schmeling.

Schmeling was afraid that he might kill Walker, and he told the reff that he would quit if the fight wasn't stopped.

The reff caved in.

Stonehands89

01-30-2010, 07:06 PM

Britton was 37 years old, yes. But he had just won a bout against a prime Benny Leonard via disqualification just four months earlier. And he was well ahead of Leonard on points, if you can believe it. Britton was a master strategist who was versatile enough to outbox the Great Bennah himself. Walker was another story. Too ferocious, too relentless. Too strong. BUT, those at ringside acknowledged that Walker, who was just 21 years old,

"...had more than an ordinary knowledge of the science of fisticuffs."

Mickey, in all likelihood peaked as a middleweight. At 25, he was there, and never went back to 147. Arguably, his peak performance was Hudkins II, and he came in at about 159.

And guess what, he boxed an absolute clinic, though his shots were short and hard. He "viciously jabbed" the onrushing Hudkins until his face was a mask of crimson according to the dailies, countered him throughout the fight and just outboxed him in a masterclass.

PowerPuncher

02-01-2010, 10:26 AM

I think we'll agree to disagree Mr McGrain :good

Duodenum

02-01-2010, 11:07 AM

Walker would eat his cornflakes out of Mayweather's upturned skull.Naw, Mickey was a two pack a day smoker, so he would have more likely used Floyd's skull as an ashtray.

janitor

02-01-2010, 12:23 PM

Naw, Mickey was a two pack a day smoker, so he would have more likely used Floyd's skull as an ashtray.

Punch bowl?

McGrain

02-01-2010, 12:40 PM

I think we'll agree to disagree Mr McGrain :good

:twisted:

BlueApollo

02-01-2010, 02:56 PM

:twisted:

:rofl

Was it all worth it?

McGrain

02-01-2010, 03:09 PM

:lol:

hell yes it was.

Duodenum

02-01-2010, 05:59 PM

Punch bowl?:thinkY'know, that's a perfectly reasonable alternative. (Come to think of it, would Mickey even need to be sober to take him?)

IVLG

02-01-2010, 06:30 PM

This is Mayweather VS Gatti, this dude is slow and a plodder. i guess since you assholes seen a few clips from Youtube of this slow bomber that he has some shot at beating Floyd. The dude was slow even on the few speed up clips i saw, THis is like saying slow ass Joe luis Vs ali or even lenox lewis or the KLits brothers, i see luis getting abused by all men in his prime.

janitor

02-01-2010, 06:31 PM

:thinkY'know, that's a perfectly reasonable alternative. (Come to think of it, would Mickey even need to be sober to take him?)

He entered the ring drunk at least once.

janitor

02-01-2010, 06:32 PM

IVLG

02-01-2010, 06:43 PM

Would you be the new court jester then?

I guess your name really fits you, you have the IQ of a janitor, please respond with sound reasoning or stfu, because clearly you have nothing of substance to add to the debate. :tired

janitor

02-01-2010, 06:48 PM

I guess your name really fits you, you have the IQ of a janitor, please respond with sound reasoning or stfu, because clearly you have nothing of substance to add to the debate. :tired

You are the one comparing Mikey Walker to Gatti and saying that Joe LOUis would "loose to all men in his prime". Who are "all men" exactly?

I do not find your contribution so far to be verry sound or laden with substance.

bodhi

02-01-2010, 06:58 PM

Flea Man

02-01-2010, 07:03 PM

What's he on about with Joe Louis as well?

Having Floyds dick up his ass is obviously making him type some very strange things.

IVLG

02-01-2010, 07:06 PM

Mickey walker Floyd Mayweather
height 5'7" 5'8''
reach 67'' 72"
Power or KO% 36% with 6oz gloves horrible 63% 8&10 oz
Speed slow ATG top 20 speed name 20 faster boxers
chin KO 6 times with lighter gloves KD a lot. ATG d# not hit much so its a toss up
Defense : His face ATG d# top 5 all time
Skill: face first brawler hatton type with less speed Most complete fighter top 5

IVLG

02-01-2010, 07:08 PM

dumb asses i said Ali, lennox lewis, klits brother would smash slow flat footed joe luis.

Flea Man

02-01-2010, 07:08 PM

What the Hell is the above?

Didn't know Stephen Hawking posted on here. Apparently a dyslexic Hawking at that :lol:

Flea Man

02-01-2010, 07:09 PM

Except for the fact that they wouldn't.

What's your problem with Joe Louis?

One thing you left out: Opposition

Walker: Extensive list of ATGs over weights from welter to HEAVY

Floyd: fucking no one from 130 to 147

Sayers

02-01-2010, 07:09 PM

3. Muscling a man isnt always effective, Hatton tried to muscle Mayweather and it didnt do him much good

Actually, the opposite is true. In that fight the ref (Cortez?) broke them up every time Hatton got to do work in close. The only clean, hard shots Hatton landed were when he got close on the inside, before the ref inevitably broke them.

Admittedly the short, one sided fight can offer no firm conclusions but there were signs that against a physical, tough inside fighter, and with a referee willing to let the action go on the inside, Mayweather would have a stern test that he has shown no sign whether or not he would be able to pass. At the end of the day, it will likely be his untested nature that stops him being rated up there with the very best.

BENNY BLANCO

02-01-2010, 07:10 PM

Mayweather dominates and knocks out the primitive Mickey Walker.

Sayers

02-01-2010, 07:11 PM

Didn't know Stephen Hawking posted on here. Apparently a dyslexic Hawking at that :lol:

:lol:

Flea Man

02-01-2010, 07:13 PM

Mayweather dominates and knocks out the primitive Mickey Walker.

Surprised you can type, thought both your hands were taken up fingering Roosters ass whilst wanking him off :good

Bummy Davis

02-01-2010, 07:18 PM

Walker by Late KO or a UD

BENNY BLANCO

02-01-2010, 07:20 PM

Surprised you can type, thought both your hands were taken up fingering Roosters ass whilst wanking him off :good Homos like you tend to think homo things. By the way fuck you and that overrated beer spokesman in your avatar.

Flea Man

02-01-2010, 07:26 PM

:lol: I knew you'd like my avatar.

BlueApollo

02-01-2010, 07:27 PM

Speed slow ATG top 20 speed name 20 faster boxers

:rofl

Faster boxers? We can start the list of just faster "welterweights" with Zab Judah, Shane Mosley, and Manny Pacquiao...

Duodenum

02-01-2010, 07:28 PM

He entered the ring drunk at least once.That was some of the best reading in his book. (Along with the time Kearns caught him with a naked girl hiding in his closet when he should have been doing his roadwork.)

PowerPuncher

02-01-2010, 07:31 PM

What the Hell is the above?

Didn't know Stephen Hawking posted on here. Apparently a dyslexic Hawking at that :lol:

Hawking using his vast understanding of physics to back up my predictions

BENNY BLANCO

02-01-2010, 07:35 PM

:lol: I knew you'd like my avatar.

I had a feeling you put that Palamino avatar up after I said Cuevas would whoop him.:yep

PowerPuncher

02-01-2010, 07:37 PM

Actually, the opposite is true. In that fight the ref (Cortez?) broke them up every time Hatton got to do work in close. The only clean, hard shots Hatton landed were when he got close on the inside, before the ref inevitably broke them.

Admittedly the short, one sided fight can offer no firm conclusions but there were signs that against a physical, tough inside fighter, and with a referee willing to let the action go on the inside, Mayweather would have a stern test that he has shown no sign whether or not he would be able to pass. At the end of the day, it will likely be his untested nature that stops him being rated up there with the very best.

You were listening to the sky commentary too much. Whenever they fought inside Mayweather got the better of it and Hatton couldnt really land. Cortez did brake up the clinches, the rules of boxing state thats what the ref is supposed to do.

If Cortez was harsher on Hatton, Im not sure he was, it would be because in his previous fight Cortez reffed Hatton made a fool of him by constantly hitting and holding (a foul) and faking a low blow that Cortez took a point for.

janitor

02-02-2010, 05:49 AM

[quote=IVLG;6030935]Mickey walker Floyd Mayweather
height 5'7" 5'8''
reach 67'' 72"

OK but Walker routinely beat world class heavyweights who had an even bigger height/reach/weight advantage.

Floyds reach advantage would be light releif.

Power or KO% 36% with 6oz gloves horrible 63% 8&10 oz

You woul;d have to make some allowance for the fact that Walker was a welterweight champion who fought oponents ranging up to heavyweight. That is bound to have some impact on his KO%

How many fighters did Floyd Mayweather knock out who weighed over 200 lbs. Walker knockjed out a few.

Also a fighters KO% is as much a function of their level of opposition as theeir power. I wont lie to you. Mayweathers opposition dosn't even come close to Walkers.

Speed slow ATG top 20 speed name 20 faster boxers

I don't see how Walker could be described as slow by any stretch of the English language.

chin KO 6 times with lighter gloves KD a lot. ATG d# not hit much so its a toss up

Not really because Walker's oponents were much bigger.

How would Mayweathers chin look if he had to take the punches of light heavyweights or heavyweights?

One factor that your comparison strangely leaves out ius opposition.

Who has Mayweather actualy beaten at 147 lbs?

Defense : His face ATG d# top 5 all time

Skill: face first brawler hatton type with less speed Most complete fighter top 5

If you alctualy bother to study film of Walker you will see that he had superb deffence for an offensive fighter, particularly against taller oponents. He was also a briliant all round puncher.

Watch the Jack Sharkey fight if you want to see an example of this.

Walker was not a Hatton type by any means. If he had been then every heavyweight he had fought would have pulverised him and he would not have been able to get their respect.

Reading your post it is painfully obvious that you have not even bothered to study Walkers record or those opf his oponents, and know next to nothing about him.

You might as well be some kid arguing that Iron man would win a fight with superman. That is about the level that you are on.

janitor

02-02-2010, 05:51 AM

Mayweather dominates and knocks out the primitive Mickey Walker.

So when are we actualy going to see Mayweather beat a top level 147 pounder?

It would not amount to a verry strong case for him beating Walker but it would at least be a start.

PowerPuncher

02-02-2010, 06:04 AM

So when are we actualy going to see Mayweather beat a top level 147 pounder?

It would not amount to a verry strong case for him beating Walker but it would at least be a start.

Hes fighting the 4th lineal WW champ hes faced next, it will be 5 WW champs in total

bodhi

02-02-2010, 06:14 AM

Hes fighting the 4th lineal WW champ hes faced next, it will be 5 WW champs in total

Baldomir? :lol: Judah? :lol: Ancient Dela Hoya? :lol: Jww Hatton? :lol: None of them was a top level ww when Mayweather fought them. Cotto, Williams, Margarito were. Mosley would be the first now, even so he is part his best.

And all of them are at the very least two classes under Mickey Walker.

janitor

02-02-2010, 06:28 AM

Hes fighting the 4th lineal WW champ hes faced next, it will be 5 WW champs in total

By no means everybody recognises Judah and Baldomir as lineal welterweight champions (or Mayweather for that matter).

ODLH everybody would give you.

Yes they are all solid fighters, but if you are talking about comparing Mayweather to the great welterweights of history then we are not quite there yet.

Mosley will be his biggest challenge yet.

PowerPuncher

02-02-2010, 06:37 AM

Baldomir? :lol: Judah? :lol: Ancient Dela Hoya? :lol: Jww Hatton? :lol: None of them was a top level ww when Mayweather fought them. Cotto, Williams, Margarito were. Mosley would be the first now, even so he is part his best.

And all of them are at the very least two classes under Mickey Walker.

You either didnt follow boxing 3 years ago or your being deliberately idiotic. When the Judah fight was signed Judah was by far the premier WW, undisputed champ with all 3 belts. Judah lost to Baldomir after the fight was signed, making him no2 and Baldomir no1. Mayweather beat them both. Margarito hadnt fought frequently and recently had 2 losses to Santos.

In that time Cotto wasnt even a welterweight, Hatton became a WW champ before Cotto. Cotto was a protected and irrelevant fighter until he took on a faded innactive Judah, a year after Mayweather faced him.

Also during that time Williams wasnt even a champ and hadnt beat anyone

Mayweather could have fought Margarito instead of Baldomir but it would mean signing a 3 fight deal and only getting an average of 7million per fight and forfeiting the massive Delahoya fight. Plus Baldomir was WBC and Lineal Champ, Margarito was only a WBOgus titlist.

Mayweather then fights Delahoya who is fresh off KO'ng Mayorga, who would later take Mosley into a war. He went all the way to 154, despite being a small WW and getting vastly outweighed. Delahoya was only 4years older than Mayweather

Hatton was the former WBA Welterweight champ and current Lineal 140lb champ. This was a fight Mayweather supposedly ducked at 140, despite Hattons father admitting the Hattons turned the fight down

As for them being levels below Walker, at least some actually had the skill to use a jab and Walkers comp is also levels below Mayweather and Walker lost at WW to fighers not as good a Mayweather. You can laugh at the men FMJ faced but most are faster and better defensively than Walker. Walker doesnt have anything floyd hasnt seen countless times before

Flea Man

02-02-2010, 06:37 AM

I had a feeling you put that Palamino avatar up after I said Cuevas would whoop him.:yep

Why the Hell would you influence me? I likePalomino AND Cuevas, don't get all schoolyard like you do with it

PowerPuncher

02-02-2010, 06:45 AM

By no means everybody recognises Judah and Baldomir as lineal welterweight champions (or Mayweather for that matter).

ODLH everybody would give you.

Yes they are all solid fighters, but if you are talking about comparing Mayweather to the great welterweights of history then we are not quite there yet.

Mosley will be his biggest challenge yet.

Who exactly doesnt recognise them as lineal :lol: lets look at the chain of lineage

DLh-Mosley winner - Lineal (arguably as they are 1 and 2)
Mosley loses to Forrest
Forrest-Mayorga - Wba-WBC unification (lineal standards are ususally WBA unifying with WBC or 1 and 2 in the division)
Mayorga-Spinks - WBC-WBA-IBF unification (definately lineal)
Judah beats Spinks
Baldomir beats Judah
Mayweather beats Baldomir

janitor

02-02-2010, 06:53 AM

Who exactly doesnt recognise them as lineal :lol: lets look at the chain of lineage

DLh-Mosley winner - Lineal (arguably as they are 1 and 2)
Mosley loses to Forrest
Forrest-Mayorga - Wba-WBC unification (lineal standards are ususally WBA unifying with WBC or 1 and 2 in the division)
Mayorga-Spinks - WBC-WBA-IBF unification (definately lineal)
Judah beats Spinks
Baldomir beats Judah
Mayweather beats Baldomir

There is consensus up to Spinks.

Not everybody recognised Judah after he beat Spinks due to Spinks anouncing retirment in 2004 or other reason.

Here is the alternative view.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

PowerPuncher

02-02-2010, 06:58 AM

There is consensus up to Spinks.

Not everybody recognised Judah after he beat Spinks due to Spinks anouncing retirment in 2004 or other reason.

Here is the alternative view.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

What are you talking about Willis, Spinks fought twice in 04, in Dec03 and Feb05 and was in discussion for Tyszu and Mayweather fights

janitor

02-02-2010, 07:06 AM

[quote=PowerPuncher;6033531]
Hatton was the former WBA Welterweight champ and current Lineal 140lb champ. This was a fight Mayweather supposedly ducked at 140, despite Hattons father admitting the Hattons turned the fight down

Yes but if there had been alphabet titles in Walkers era its not unthinkable that he might have picked on up at heavyweight!!!

Put Hatton in an era where there are eight weight classes and one title per weight class, and he is just a prety good welterweight contender, nothing more.

As for them being levels below Walker, at least some actually had the skill to use a jab

Wlaker is a small pressure fighter which means that you would expect him to use the jab sparringly anyway.

Since you have clearly only seen a few higlights of him it is hard to see how you can sy that he "lacked the skill to use a jab".

and Walkers comp is also levels below Mayweather

I don't honestly think that it is.

He arguably fought better welterweights than Mayweather.

He even fought middleweights and light heavyweights who could be argued to be better than Mayweather pound for pound.

On top of that he fought some heavyweights who could have swated Mayweather like a fly.

and Walker lost at WW to fighers not as good a Mayweather.

Walker did not have the luxury of a carefully mnaged and protected career.

He fought the best, fought them, regularly, and fought them under unfavourable circumstances.

You can laugh at the men FMJ faced but most are faster and better defensively than Walker. Walker doesnt have anything floyd hasnt seen countless times before

If you look at what Walker acomplished it should be abundantly obvious that he had a lot that Mayweather had never seen before.

Unless you think that one of Mayweathers oponents could hold Eddie Chambers to a draw, or beat David Haye.

The verry fact that Walker could hold his own with skilled fighters who were so much bigger should be a clue that he was neither technicaly now defensivley crude.

It should also be a clue that his power and durability might well be something Floyd has never seen before.

In fact the word clue is not appropriate.

It should be blindingly obvious.

janitor

02-02-2010, 07:08 AM

What are you talking about Willis, Spinks fought twice in 04, in Dec03 and Feb05 and was in discussion for Tyszu and Mayweather fights

I can only conclude that he must have formaly anounced his retirment at some point in 2004.

In that event he would looose the lineage even if the various sanctioning bodies did not strip him.

PowerPuncher

02-02-2010, 07:21 AM

I can only conclude that he must have formaly anounced his retirment at some point in 2004.

In that event he would looose the lineage even if the various sanctioning bodies did not strip him.

BS, aside from you having no source of him announcing that

1 I never heard that at the time despite following all the boxing news,
2 if he formally announced his retirement he would have been stripped of his belts,
3, you dont fight every 4months and negotiate fights if your retired
4 Spinks hadnt made enough money to retire and was only 25
5 cyberboxing doesnt superseed over WBC/WBA/IBF and they've probably effed it up anyway

Theres a clear as day lineage and your source is simply incorrect

janitor

02-02-2010, 07:25 AM

BS, aside from you having no source of him announcing that

1 I never heard that at the time despite following all the boxing news,
2 if he formally announced his retirement he would have been stripped of his belts,
3, you dont fight every 4months and negotiate fights if your retired
4 Spinks hadnt made enough money to retire and was only 25
5 cyberboxing doesnt superseed over WBC/WBA/IBF and they've probably effed it up anyway

Theres a clear as day lineage and your source is simply incorrect

CBZ is a respected body that publishes academic articles on boxing and has a number of historians writing for it.

Their reasoning on this ocasion is not entirely clear to me but I am certain that there must be some basis for it.

If you disagree perhaps you should write to them.

TheGreatA

02-02-2010, 12:09 PM

I wouldn't say that retirement necessarily voids ones lineage claim. Judah pretty much established himself as the best welterweight at the time when he beat Spinks.

However in the grand scheme of things, neither Judah or Baldomir will go down as a great opposition for Mayweather. Despite besting Spinks, Judah was never able to establish himself as one of the best welterweights of the era. He will be known for his losses to Baldomir, Mayweather, Cotto and Clottey more so than that one win he had. Baldomir is a success story and a bit of a fluke, he got the right champ at the right time. Neither were truly among Cotto, Margarito, Mosley who are the best welters in recent times.

As for Mickey Walker not having a jab, well he won one of his biggest fights against Ace Hudkins with only the use of a jab. He didn't jab with Tommy Louhgran but that doesn't mean he didn't have a jab.

The man went to a draw with Jack Sharkey, who was one of the most talented heavyweights of the era and considered probably the best at the time, since that he had handed out a beating to the champion Schmeling before hitting him low and being DQ'd. Sharkey was not some plodding wildman, he had all the skills of a welter/middleweight, and so must have had Walker too in order to be able to compete with this man.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

There he is, throwing a jab.

Aggressive pressure fighters in general have a hard time moving up in weight since they rely on their advantages in punching power and strength, unless they have skills. Walker couldn't have been able to compete with light heavyweights or heavyweights if he had no skills.