Ricky Hatton's place among the British greats?

[PhillyPhan69]

There is a thread about Hatton, in the general forum, regarding his all time legacy and how he will be remembered. One guy posted that Hatton is a probable top 15 british atg? How accurate is that, and among brits where would he rank?

I have always liked Hatton, and think he gets sold short alot since his 2 losses. Have 2 losses ever hurt a boxers legacy more than his? Anyway I am not a british expert but believe that top 15 seems high just off the top of my head...where do you find the appropriate spot for him among his country men???

[McGrain]

Absolutley not in the top 20. Generally underated on the Classic board though.

[Mantequilla]

He's an overachiever, i think you could find at least 30 to 40 British fighters that rate above him on actual fighting ability.His win over Kostya was a fine achievement even with the hometown advantage reffing, considering the talent he had.


A poor man's Gianfranco Rosi.Potentially awkward to look good against, with a few good attributes, but a weak vulnerable world champion overall.Even accounting for Pac's abiity, i'd say his performance in that fight is one of the worst ever by a world class Brit fighter in a big fight.

I'd be more leniant on him if he had been an honest pressure fighter that threw quality punches and fought clean aka Paul Hodkinson, who was no great talent either.But he wasn't, he was just a horrible fighter to watch.

[Caponecartels]

Absolutley not in the top 20. Generally underated on the Classic board though.

Top 30 then?

[McGrain]

Top 30 then?


Depends on your criteria i suppose. He overcame Kostya, and even if he was getting on a bit it's still a victory over one of the best fighters in the history of his division. Stepping up was impressive given his style. I think you could slot him in to a 30 if you felt like it.


A fighter like Micheal Watson was better though.

[PhillyPhan69]

And for those who do not know! (Thats me)! What constitutes a british fighter?

UK Born
does it include nations under british rule, or only Great Britan?

for example Lennox Lewis was born to Jamaican parents, in london and won a gold medal for Canada! So is he a great:
Jamaican boxer
british boxer
canadian boxer
all 3????

[essexboy]

And for those who do not know! (Thats me)! What constitutes a british fighter?

UK Born
does it include nations under british rule, or only Great Britan?

for example Lennox Lewis was born to Jamaican parents, in london and won a gold medal for Canada! So is he a great:
Jamaican boxer
british boxer
canadian boxer
all 3????

Lennox was born in London so hes British. Hatton isnt anywhere talentwise but you cant deny he has some very good wins on his record, it depends what you like. I'd probably have him 20-30.

[PhillyPhan69]

Lennox was born in London so hes British. Hatton isnt anywhere talentwise but you cant deny he has some very good wins on his record, it depends what you like. I'd probably have him 20-30.

See thats what makes part of this so hard for me to understand! Joe Frazier was born in South Carolina, but he is clearly a Philly phighter!

[Flea Man]

That's totally different. Being born in one part of the country but becoming a fighter in another part of it is completely different from having a fighter who is born in one country, to parents from a different country and learns his trade in ANOTHER country.

Just seemed a way to show off a tidbit of trivia if you ask me.

[kosaros]

Top 15-25.

[PhillyPhan69]

That's totally different. Being born in one part of the country but becoming a fighter in another part of it is completely different from having a fighter who is born in one country, to parents from a different country and learns his trade in ANOTHER country.

Just seemed a way to show off a tidbit of trivia if you ask me.

except most everyone knows it?

[janitor]

I happen to think that history will be kind to the Hitman.

I say this as one who identified the detail of his technical shortcomings when he was riding high.

He reigned over the light welterweight division as lineal champion for four years, and lets face it he was not fighting bums and pretenders. He was fighting beltholders and contenders.

As for his losses, history could be verry forgiving to a man who only lost to the two best pound for pound fighters of his era. Verry forgiving indeed.

[Mantequilla]

I dunno.I can see why you say that and agree to an extent, but he's more likely to really benefit from things like that if is there hardly any footage of him.

I can't see him aging well for the neutral fan watching his fights in years down the line.Look at the backlash against fighters like Kingpetch and Galaxy, fighters either infinitely classier or more destructive than Ricky.

[Flea Man]

Good points from Janitor and Mantequilla. Even if Urango goes on to be dominant (highly unlikely IMO) viewing the Hatton fight would leave one underwhelmed to say the least.

[Russell]

who was no great talent either.But he wasn't, he was just a horrible fighter to watch.

Never enjoyed watching any of his fights? :think

[Mantequilla]

Well to be fair, a lot of the pre-Tszyu stuff was ok.But once he started consistently fighting at world level it was a different story

[Flea Man]

Hatton did show some nice flashes though to show he wasn't a completely unrespectable fighter.

I mean, Saddler is horrible to watch as well. I'm not comparing them AT ALL (Saddler a lock for top 30, Hatton doesn't make top 200 off top of my head :lol:) but Hatton was horrible to watch in some of his supposed 'key fights' so it should be held against him to an extent, especially as the people he had to maul were nowhere near the class of Pep.

[Sweet Pea]

He was like a dirt poor man's Jack "Kid" Berg, who was pretty awful to watch in his own right.

[Flea Man]

Where would you rank Stracey? As good as it is being away from home, a few good rounds against a cut Napoles is not a fantastic achievement, although not get stopped against him after getting floored early was (to an extent, I mean Napoles>Tszyu as a win is as much of a gap in class you could find at championship level) and although Stracey was decent, the only other notable thing that comes to my mind is Palomino breaking him down with those savage body shots. I'd have Hatton above him.

A sound judgement? Or incredibly ignorant and illinformed? Discuss.

[McGrain]

He was like a dirt poor man's Jack "Kid" Berg, who was pretty awful to watch in his own right.

:lol:

See, he gave us some great nights over here, six in the morning pissed and roaring at the tv kinda nights. Great.

[Mr Butt]

He was like a dirt poor man's Jack "Kid" Berg, :goodwho was pretty awful to watch in his own right.:yikes

hatton is overated and berg would overwhelm him

sweet pea what have you seen of berg

[Flea Man]

Agreed. Before he came a knobhead he was easy to root for, and looks a quality fighter when hammered with a load of mates as most over channels have gone onto rolling ads or Ceefax :lol:

[Sweet Pea]

hatton is overated and berg would overwhelm himAnd? When did I say anything to the contrary?

sweet pea what have you seen of bergI've seen most of two of his fights against Chocolate and Canzoneri that were up on Youtube not long ago. I never questioned his status as a fighter, I merely said he was dreadful to watch. Very ugly style, particularly against boxers like Chocolate, who I thought deserved the verdict in that fight, and apparently did according to many other sources.

[Sweet Pea]

There ya go Mr. Butt.

dmK5eas2nHs

[Mr Butt]

And? When did I say anything to the contrary?


you did not ,everytime hatton is mentioned with berg i cant help myself i have to say it.so sorry if you took it the wrong way

I've seen most of two of his fights against Chocolate and Canzoneri that were up on Youtube not long ago. I never questioned his status as a fighter, I merely said he was dreadful to watch. Very ugly style, particularly against boxers like Chocolate, who I thought deserved the verdict in that fight, and apparently did according to many other sources.

i read somewhere years ago that the chocolate fight could of gone either way,are you talking about the the second canzonzeri fight berg walks on to the punch i think the ref could of counted to one hundred and berg would of not made the count and been able to carry on



thanks sweet pea i have not seen this in years

[Flea Man]

I'd like to see Berg vs Chocolate. Have only seen the above Canzoneri fight which is a peach of a punch that fells him.

[Mantequilla]

Where would you rank Stracey? As good as it is being away from home, a few good rounds against a cut Napoles is not a fantastic achievement, although not get stopped against him after getting floored early was (to an extent, I mean Napoles>Tszyu as a win is as much of a gap in class you could find at championship level) and although Stracey was decent, the only other notable thing that comes to my mind is Palomino breaking him down with those savage body shots. I'd have Hatton above him.

A sound judgement? Or incredibly ignorant and illinformed? Discuss.


Not a stracey fan either really, to be honest, almost allof his notable wins were against washed up fighters.I thin he was a notch better than Hatton as a fighter though, but that's about the level i'd put Hatton at.I'm not saying i think he was inept or anything. like that.

the much mocked Dave Boy Green was a notch above Ricky as well in his brief prime imo, just to use another Brit from that era as an example.

[PowerPuncher]

And for those who do not know! (Thats me)! What constitutes a british fighter?

UK Born
does it include nations under british rule, or only Great Britan?

for example Lennox Lewis was born to Jamaican parents, in london and won a gold medal for Canada! So is he a great:
Jamaican boxer
british boxer
canadian boxer
all 3????

I say all 3, hes a Brit, Jamaicans love him, he lives there and he won Gold for Canada. Fighting for Britain was partly due to it being the best moneymaker

Anyway back to Hatton, he gets underrated on this forum, he had a hell of an engine giving none stop activity, very much underrated speed, very strong, a very good chin (taking Tyszus best), and smarter than given credit for. His pressure would be a problem for allot of fighters

All that aside he never proved himself the best LWW in the North of England, which is the fight we all wanted

[Flea Man]

Not a stracey fan either really, to be honest, almost allof his notable wins were gaainst washed up fighters.I thin he was a notch better than Hatton as a fighter though, but that's about the level i'd put Hatton at.I'm not saying i think he was inept or anything. like that.

the much mocked Dave Boy Green was a notch above Ricky as well in his brief prime imo, just to use another Brit from that era as an example.

Is he mocked purely because Leonard blitzed him? That would be unfair IMO. I think he stopped Stracey incidentally, though I haven't seen the fight.

[anarci]

He's an overachiever, i think you could find at least 30 to 40 British fighters that rate above him on actual fighting ability.His win over Kostya was a fine achievement even with the hometown advantage reffing, considering the talent he had.


A poor man's Gianfranco Rosi.Potentially awkward to look good against, with a few good attributes, but a weak vulnerable world champion overall.Even accounting for Pac's abiity, i'd say his performance in that fight is one of the worst ever by a world class Brit fighter in a big fight.

I'd be more leniant on him if he had been an honest pressure fighter that threw quality punches and fought clean aka Paul Hodkinson, who was no great talent either.But he wasn't, he was just a horrible fighter to watch. I thought Hodkinson had good talent he just cut to easy, i saw his fights with Villasana and he was doing a number on him before being stopped on cuts. Big puncher and fast hands, his defense wasnt to hot though.

[Flea Man]

I say all 3, hes a Brit, Jamaicans love him, he lives there and he won Gold for Canada. Fighting for Britain was partly due to it being the best moneymaker

Anyway back to Hatton, he gets underrated on this forum, he had a hell of an engine giving none stop activity, very much underrated speed, very strong, a very good chin (taking Tyszus best), and smarter than given credit for. His pressure would be a problem for allot of fighters

All that aside he never proved himself the best LWW in the North of England, which is the fight we all wanted

It wasn't 'non-stop activity' though was it, not all the time. A lot of mauling, bursts of activity, more mauling.

I think Hatton had fast feet but seemed to use them increasingly more as he moved up in class merely to dart in rather than dart out. That he didn't do this against Malignaggi and employed some decent in and out movement and picked his shorts more suggests to me he tried to stunt his opponents punching room to avoid getting hit rather than to get off his own shots. He threw some nice shots to the body as we all know, and could put shots together fairly well at times (his left hook shot of Maussa is quality, even if he is jumping:lol:) but I think the fact he didn't always seem to use his head and box was because he was using his head and trying not to get banged out.

He ws durable nough but was aware he could be hurt IMO, and din't want to get stopped. Fair enough, but it didn't exactly lend to him becoming a 'great' fighter, not IMO anywa.

Good though, and effective enough. Just not against the calibre of fighters that have also been discussed on this thread.

[Mr Butt]

the much mocked Dave Boy Green was a notch above Ricky as well in his brief prime imo, just to use another Brit from that era as an example.


totally agree with green gets underated my personal opinion is that green was a better lightwelter than hatton

[Mantequilla]

That(though he was a finished fighter in that fight anyway) and because he was a generally technically poor unskilled labourer flea

But so was Hatton and Green was a bit better at it than Ricky imo.I've no doubts the Green who had to take his shot against a prime Palomino would have whipped the old can't fight 12 rounds Tszyu that Ricky had his big moment against.

Ricky doesn't beat the slick Hawk Price either.

[Mantequilla]

I do think Hatton was a much better overall fighter than Junior Witter though.That said, they really should have fought.

Witter was just shockingly sloppy.

[anarci]

Ok i just think the posters here are being way too harsh on Ricky Hatton, his resume and ability is definitley better than Davey "Boy"Greene or John Stracey, i know that Davey Greene was good he gave Palomino a tough fight despite almost getting killed by Leonard.

I just went down a list of the best British fighters of All time and i would rank him 11th.

Ricky Hatton in my opinion is a Borderline HOF Id say hes about on Par with Barry Mcguigan who in my opinion is the gatekeeper for the HOF.

[Mantequilla]

Hatton's record is hardly streets ahead of either of those two, if we are counting the important thing of fights won.Beating an old Castillo is no more impressive than an old Ernie Lopez or Hedge Lewis for instance.Maussa, Urango, Maignaggi, washed up Lazcano.....that's weak opp by any definition of the word.

It's Tszyu that makes Hatton's career.That was his moment, just like Stracey had Napoles.

[Sweet Pea]

I just went down a list of the best British fighters of All time and i would rank him 11th.If that's the case I don't think the problem is any harshness on our part. Mind if I check that list out?

[TBooze]

Hatton was very good, but way below great.

Post WWII I would place him sixth below Jackie Paterson, Ken Buchanan, Lennox Lewis, Naseem Hamed and Joe Calzaghe. He was a little bit more consistent than Benn and Eubank, fighting similar level opposition, so edges them.

[anarci]

If that's the case I don't think the problem is any harshness on our part. Mind if I check that list out? No i cant post the list:nono But ill give you the guys from England that i rate over him. I have him tied with Conteh.

Englands Best
1.Bob Fitzsimmons
2.Jimmy Wilde
3.Jackie Berg
4.Joe Calzaghe
5.Lennox Lewis
6.Randy Turpin
7.Ted Lewis
8.Freddie Welsh
9.Jim Driscoll
10.Naseem Hamed
11.John Conteh-Ricky Hatton
13.Nigel Benn
14.Chris Eubank
15.Howard Winstone

Others Honeyghan,Downes,Mills,Graham,Jones

[PowerPuncher]

It wasn't 'non-stop activity' though was it, not all the time. A lot of mauling, bursts of activity, more mauling.

I think Hatton had fast feet but seemed to use them increasingly more as he moved up in class merely to dart in rather than dart out. That he didn't do this against Malignaggi and employed some decent in and out movement and picked his shorts more suggests to me he tried to stunt his opponents punching room to avoid getting hit rather than to get off his own shots. He threw some nice shots to the body as we all know, and could put shots together fairly well at times (his left hook shot of Maussa is quality, even if he is jumping:lol:) but I think the fact he didn't always seem to use his head and box was because he was using his head and trying not to get banged out.

He ws durable nough but was aware he could be hurt IMO, and din't want to get stopped. Fair enough, but it didn't exactly lend to him becoming a 'great' fighter, not IMO anywa.

Good though, and effective enough. Just not against the calibre of fighters that have also been discussed on this thread.

Agree with most of this, aside from the Maussa KO shot, a good boxer would have rolled and counter righted that shot.

I think his activity an intensity were top level, he was throwing allot of powerpunches a round. Mayweather certaily had to raise his pace against Hatton.

His mauling came into overdrive from the Tyszu fight onwards. I think he figured out he needed to put the puncher on the back foot and take away his room, and when it worked he kept doing it until Mayweather battered him and he thought his skills werentgood enough, went to Mayweather Sr and thought he could box on the outside against Pacman. Dont think he beats Pacman anyway but if he mauled more he would have made a far better fight of it

Before Tyszu he wasnt anything like as bad the mauling and his workrate was better. But then again it was all older and smaller men

Agree hes not a true great but he certaily built a flattering resume for a lad with poor defense, wide punching and lack of top level power. The manner of the Tyszu and Castillo wins were impressive even if they werent pretty to watch, wasnt Ricky around top5 P4P after Castillo?

[PowerPuncher]

In the last 40 years I'd certainly rate Lewis, Benn, Eubank, Graham, Conteh, Hamed, Calzaghe, Conteh all over him in terms of ability if not resume and maybe Haye

[cross_trainer]

I suspect that Lennox beats him head-to-head.

[essexboy]

No i cant post the list:nono But ill give you the guys from England that i rate over him. I have him tied with Conteh.

Englands Best
1.Bob Fitzsimmons
2.Jimmy Wilde
3.Jackie Berg
4.Joe Calzaghe
5.Lennox Lewis
6.Randy Turpin
7.Ted Lewis
8.Freddie Welsh
9.Jim Driscoll
10.Naseem Hamed
11.John Conteh-Ricky Hatton
13.Nigel Benn
14.Chris Eubank
15.Howard Winstone

Others Honeyghan,Downes,Mills,Graham,Jones

Alot of those are Welsh.

Everyone on your list should be higher than Hatton imo. Also Honeyghan, Pedlar Palmer (going back I know) and Tommy Farr. Arguably Downes and Mills as well.

On a British list Buchanan, Lynch and Moran ahead of him also.

[Flea Man]

Anarci-Conteh and Hatton are not equal. Conteh beat better fighters and was light years ahead technically. Also, Calzaghe above Lennox?

Also most of those fighters are Welsh and one of them is an Aussie/Kiwi/Yank :lol:

on a British list where would you rank Benny Lynch and Ken Buchanan? I'd have them both over Calzaghe personally.

[anarci]

Alot of those are Welsh.

Everyone on your list should be higher than Hatton imo. Also Honeyghan, Pedlar Palmer (going back I know) and Tommy Farr. Arguably Downes and Mills as well.

On a British list Buchanan, Lynch and Moran ahead of him also. Yey i originally put Buchanan,and Lynch on there but they are from Scotland which is a whole other country. Hatton did more than most of those guys you mentioned and I think you all underrate him cause he got blown out by PAC. Well I know they are Welsh but isnt Wales in England? Ask most fans outside of the UK and they think all those guys i mentioned were english.

Dont want to get in no debates here about Whos english and who aint , I know that you know the differences better than I do.

[Flea Man]

:lol: Wales in England!!!!! It most definitely is not :lol:

[anarci]

Anarci-Conteh and Hatton are not equal. Conteh beat better fighters and was light years ahead technically. Also, Calzaghe above Lennox?

Also most of those fighters are Welsh and one of them is an Aussie/Kiwi/Yank :lol:

on a British list where would you rank Benny Lynch and Ken Buchanan? I'd have them both over Calzaghe personally. Technichally i agree that Conteh was much better than Hatton, but when you consider everything i think They are equal. The way you guys think i overrate Lopez, Well i think you guys overrate Conteh:yep Yey Id put Calzaghe over Lennox. Calzaghe was never KTFOD byless than A level fighters and Lennox was kod twice. Maybe if Calzaghe never got up against Byron Mitchell, or was kod by Charles Brewer id consider putting Lewis ahead of him.
Also they seem to have a lot in common they both beat ATG who were past their best,but Calzaghe wins the Tie breaker cause no one ever beat him.

Im guessing that Freddie Welsh is yank etc etc? I thought he was raised out there and only fought in the US.

[essexboy]

Technichally i agree that Conteh was much better than Hatton, but when you consider everything i think They are equal. The way you guys think i overrate Lopez, Well i think you guys overrate Conteh:yep Yey Id put Calzaghe over Lennox. Calzaghe was never KTFOD byless than A level fighters and Lennox was kod twice. Maybe if Calzaghe never got up against Byron Mitchell, or was kod by Charles Brewer id consider putting Lewis ahead of him.
Also they seem to have a lot in common they both beat ATG who were past their best,but Calzaghe wins the Tie breaker cause no one ever beat him.

Im guessing that Freddie Welsh is yank etc etc? I thought he was raised out there and only fought in the US.

Fitzsimmons. I'd count him as English though.

[anarci]

:lol: Wales in England!!!!! It most definitely is not :lol: I heard you guys arguing about this for days on the Lounge forum, and i heard 2 sides to it.

Well im very smart thank you for thinking so highly of my intelligence before this post:lol: OK im not an expert on the Geography of England.
To Americans Wales and England are the same thing,but thats good that just makes your boxing talent deeper right?

[Flea Man]

Well being 1/4 Scottish I consider myself British

[Flea Man]

Also,taking into account how small the Britishisles are I'd say the talent pool is pretty decent

[anarci]

What is the population like 50 Milliion in England right? What about the UK?

[Mr Butt]

i know this is not a head to head fight thing but honeyghan for me is at least a level above hatton and a head to head fight would of been a murder and lloyd would of been the one doig time


i am english not a taff or a mick or even a jock ,my great great grandad was apparently a italian jew but at least he ws not a taff

[turpinr]

i know this is not a head to head fight thing but honeyghan for me is at least a level above hatton and a head to head fight would of been a murder and lloyd would of been the one doig time


i am english not a taff or a mick or even a jock ,my great great grandad was apparently a italian jew but at least he ws not a taffwhat is your top 15 ,yiddle.british fighters

[turpinr]

Well being 1/4 Scottish I consider myself British:lol::goodi'm british too
english/scottish
irish granddad
welsh surname
fuck me !!

[anarci]

i know this is not a head to head fight thing but honeyghan for me is at least a level above hatton and a head to head fight would of been a murder and lloyd would of been the one doig time


i am english not a taff or a mick or even a jock ,my great great grandad was apparently a italian jew but at least he ws not a taff Well at welterweight i have to agree that Honeyghan would have kod Hatton. But we all know that was not Hattons best weight. If you look at their resumes though id have to give the edge to Hatton.

[turpinr]

Well at welterweight i have to agree that Honeyghan would have kod Hatton. But we all know that was not Hattons best weight. If you look at their resumes though id have to give the edge to Hatton.i think you'll find hatton is at least a rung below ken buchanan in most peoples eyes.our, britains gravy days were perhaps the peaks of benn and eubank and later collins, calzaghe and reid.
not forgetting glen cattley ,henry wharton, michael watson and the bomber.hatton never had domestic rivals like these and perhaps suffered because of this.

[Flea Man]

:lol::goodi'm british too
english/scottish
irish granddad
welsh surname
fuck me !!
:lol:

[Mr Butt]

Well at welterweight i have to agree that Honeyghan would have kod Hatton. But we all know that was not Hattons best weight. If you look at their resumes though id have to give the edge to Hatton.


i am not a hatton fan as you might of guessed but honeyghans win over curry tops any win of hattons .and apart from the zu win i think honeyghans win over rosi tops any of hattons other big fight wins remember honeyghan ko'd rosi in devastating fashion

[Mr Butt]

what is your top 15 ,yiddle.british fighters

i dont make many list's but on boxing ability is hatton more skilled than graham,laing or walter mcgowan

[turpinr]

i am not a hatton fan as you might of guessed but honeyghans win over curry tops any win of hattons .and apart from the zu win i think honeyghans win over rosi tops any of hattons other big fight wins remember honeyghan ko'd rosi in devastating fashioni remember that win of lloyds over rosi.wow he didn't half connect

[anarci]

i think you'll find hatton is at least a rung below ken buchanan in most peoples eyes.our, britains gravy days were perhaps the peaks of benn and eubank and later collins, calzaghe and reid.
not forgetting glen cattley ,henry wharton, michael watson and the bomber.hatton never had domestic rivals like these and perhaps suffered because of this. Ok i never compared Hatton to Buchanan. If you want me to include Scotland then I would have Buchanan about on par with Lewis and Calzaghe. Lynch would have made the top 8 and maybe could have put Watt in the top 15.


Okay some of the brits you mentioned never evern fought eachother although some of them had rivalries. But that didnt matter Hatton fought some good fighters from all over Tszyu,Collazo,Castillo,Malinaggi,Urango,Tackie,Oliviera,Phillips, etc etc and a fight with the other top guy from N.Ireland Magee. All these guys were former champs or legit top contenders.(although ill will have to say Castillo looked old,and Phillips past it) His only losses were to the top PFP fighters in the world. They knockout loss to Pac though took him down a notch in most fans eyes,but i thought he was competetive with May up until the mid to late rounds.

[Mr Butt]

i thought tackie was past it in the hatton fight .just an opinion

[anarci]

i thought tackie was past it in the hatton fight .just an opinion Well he was coming off 2 losses one to Mitchell and to Tszyu but he was still dangerousl, he could punch and had a great chin still, but his boxing skills were very average.

He is past it know hes more of tough journeyman type or someone that will give a good fight but lose to the House guy, but he has still never been dropped or knocked down one of the best chins in boxing.

[Mr Butt]

Well he was coming off 2 losses one to Mitchell and to Tszyu but he was still dangerousl, he could punch and had a great chin still, but his boxing skills were very average.

He is past it know hes more of tough journeyman type or someone that will give a good fight but lose to the House guy, but he has still never been dropped or knocked down one of the best chins in boxing.

yeah great chin and heart:good

[turpinr]

Ok i never compared Hatton to Buchanan. If you want me to include Scotland then I would have Buchanan about on par with Lewis and Calzaghe. Lynch would have made the top 8 and maybe could have put Watt in the top 15.


Okay some of the brits you mentioned never evern fought eachother although some of them had rivalries. But that didnt matter Hatton fought some good fighters from all over Tszyu,Collazo,Castillo,Malinaggi,Urango,Tackie,Oliviera,Phillips, etc etc and a fight with the other top guy from N.Ireland Magee. All these guys were former champs or legit top contenders.(although ill will have to say Castillo looked old,and Phillips past it) His only losses were to the top PFP fighters in the world. They knockout loss to Pac though took him down a notch in most fans eyes,but i thought he was competetive with May up until the mid to late rounds.:goodfair dos.
buchanan and lynch are elite level ,in my eyes anyway.i have wee benny as my No.1 flyweight and king ken as a top 10 lightweight.i've nowt against hatton i have met the bloke and liked him but its too soon to rate him in the classic section imo

[p.Townend]

He has beaten some very good men and won titles in 2 divisions.I think he is one of our best fighters and should get more respect than he does.

[Flea Man]

He has beaten some very good men and won titles in 2 divisions.I think he is one of our best fighters and should get more respect than he does.

This means close to jack shit nowadays. Especially when you consider the win was very controversial and wasn't against the best in the division.

I think a better thing to say would be;He did well at 140, considering, and struggled in a fight above his best weight (twice, once against someone who was good)

Compare that to Jack Berg, who fought a lot of good fighters at lightweight and light welter, or Ted Lewis, who fought a multi-fight series with Jack Britton and even fought at light-heavy and Heavy.

He gets the right amount of respect if you ask me.

[PowerPuncher]

i think you'll find hatton is at least a rung below ken buchanan in most peoples eyes.our, britains gravy days were perhaps the peaks of benn and eubank and later collins, calzaghe and reid.
not forgetting glen cattley ,henry wharton, michael watson and the bomber.hatton never had domestic rivals like these and perhaps suffered because of this.

Ummm he did have a domestic rival who was chasing him for 10years but he ducked him

[PowerPuncher]

Ok i never compared Hatton to Buchanan. If you want me to include Scotland then I would have Buchanan about on par with Lewis and Calzaghe. Lynch would have made the top 8 and maybe could have put Watt in the top 15.


Okay some of the brits you mentioned never evern fought eachother although some of them had rivalries. But that didnt matter Hatton fought some good fighters from all over Tszyu,Collazo,Castillo,Malinaggi,Urango,Tackie,Oliviera,Phillips, etc etc and a fight with the other top guy from N.Ireland Magee. All these guys were former champs or legit top contenders.(although ill will have to say Castillo looked old,and Phillips past it) His only losses were to the top PFP fighters in the world. They knockout loss to Pac though took him down a notch in most fans eyes,but i thought he was competetive with May up until the mid to late rounds.

Tyszu - 35, 3 rounds in 2 years
Castillo - shot, and got a bit of a gift against Noudjo in his prior fight
Olivera - wasnt he 40 and struggling to make 140? Augustus easily beat him in his next fight
Mallinaggi - got a gift against Ngoudjo and maybe deserved to lose to Ndou too, zero power
Tackie - gatekeeper, ex LW, got shutout in his last 2 fights
Phillips - 39 and flew to England 24 hours before the fight
Urango - massive puncher, coming off a gift (notice a patern?) over some jewish Aussie, good win
Magee - didnt really beat anyone and lost to Ukral who wasnt great shakes himself
Collazo - only a titlist becuse Baldomir couldnt afford the sactioning fees, close win could have gone either way

So decent wins but certainly not top contenders for the main part

[turpinr]

Tyszu - 35, 3 rounds in 2 years
Castillo - shot, and got a bit of a gift against Noudjo in his prior fight
Olivera - wasnt he 40 and struggling to make 140? Augustus easily beat him in his next fight
Mallinaggi - got a gift against Ngoudjo and maybe deserved to lose to Ndou too, zero power
Tackie - gatekeeper, ex LW, got shutout in his last 2 fights
Phillips - 39 and flew to England 24 hours before the fight
Urango - massive puncher, coming off a gift (notice a patern?) over some jewish Aussie, good win
Magee - didnt really beat anyone and lost to Ukral who wasnt great shakes himself
Collazo - only a titlist becuse Baldomir couldnt afford the sactioning fees, close win could have gone either way

So decent wins but certainly not top contenders for the main partyou forgot freddie pendelton who is the same age as ike williams

[Beeston Brawler]

Lewis is way above Calzaghe, for the guy that said JC would be above Lennox :lol:

Hatton would probably slot in around 10-15 of a British list I'd say. Talent-wise probably lower, but resume generally isn't a strong point with British fighters, therefore he gains on that score, despite it not being all that great.

Benn, Eubank, Watson and Graham were all more talented, but none (IMO) have as good a slate as Ricky..... who benefitted from getting the odd guy at the right time, such as Tszyu. Phillips was a good win, he beat Kelson Pinto not long after..... it's neither here nor there really.

[The Morlocks]

There is a thread about Hatton, in the general forum, regarding his all time legacy and how he will be remembered. One guy posted that Hatton is a probable top 15 british atg? How accurate is that, and among brits where would he rank?

I have always liked Hatton, and think he gets sold short alot since his 2 losses. Have 2 losses ever hurt a boxers legacy more than his? Anyway I am not a british expert but believe that top 15 seems high just off the top of my head...where do you find the appropriate spot for him among his country men???
What an overrated, weakchinned bum this guy is. Truly the guest that stayed too long at the party. If the ref in England hadn't protected him the one time Lazcano had him seriously hurt, there may never have been the two superfights he got ko'd in.

[Unforgiven]

Ricky Hatton's place among the British greats?


About on a par with Dennis Andries.

[TommyV]

Fitzsimmons, Lewis, Lewis, Wilde, Lynch, Winstone, Driscoll, Mills, Welsh, Hamed, Moran, Honeyghan, Calzaghe, Winstone, Buchanan, Benn, Eubank, Conteh, Berg and Turpin would probably all rank above him, wouldn't they? So not in the top 20 in that case.

Btw, that's not my top 20 or anything, just 20 random names chucked about. I don't have a British list, so I couldn't give a definitive answer. But I would expect if I did, I'd be placing him below all those names.

[mcvey]

No i cant post the list:nono But ill give you the guys from England that i rate over him. I have him tied with Conteh.

Englands Best
1.Bob Fitzsimmons
2.Jimmy Wilde
3.Jackie Berg
4.Joe Calzaghe
5.Lennox Lewis
6.Randy Turpin
7.Ted Lewis
8.Freddie Welsh
9.Jim Driscoll
10.Naseem Hamed
11.John Conteh-Ricky Hatton
13.Nigel Benn
14.Chris Eubank
15.Howard Winstone

Others Honeyghan,Downes,Mills,Graham,Jones

Ever heard of Owen Moran ? Benny Lynch,Peter Kane,Joe Bowker?
ps Charley White was born in Liverpool.Mclarnin Belfast,do they qualify? :lol:
England's best? With Wilde in it?
Is Florida in Texas? Lynch of course is Scottish

[mcvey]

Hatton did show some nice flashes though to show he wasn't a completely unrespectable fighter.

I mean, Saddler is horrible to watch as well. I'm not comparing them AT ALL (Saddler a lock for top 30, Hatton doesn't make top 200 off top of my head :lol:) but Hatton was horrible to watch in some of his supposed 'key fights' so it should be held against him to an extent, especially as the people he had to maul were nowhere near the class of Pep.

If Hatton was horrible to watch where does that leave the Klits?

[mcvey]

totally agree with green gets underated my personal opinion is that green was a better lightwelter than hatton

No he wasn't,I saw a lot of Green, up close ,he was a face first fighter who got to domestic level and did not progress from there.

[janitor]

In the last 40 years I'd certainly rate Lewis, Benn, Eubank, Graham, Conteh, Hamed, Calzaghe, Conteh all over him in terms of ability if not resume and maybe Haye

Hatton is always going to score higher on acomplishments than on skill.

On paper his resume aint half bad.

[mcvey]

Hatton is always going to score higher on acomplishments than on skill.

On paper his resume aint half bad.

Iv'e no problem accepting he was several levels below great, but horrible to watch? I thought he was entertaining.

[anarci]

Ever heard of Owen Moran ? Benny Lynch,Peter Kane,Joe Bowker?
ps Charley White was born in Liverpool.Mclarnin Belfast,do they qualify? :lol:
England's best? With Wilde in it?
Is Florida in Texas? Lynch of course is Scottish Of course ive heard of them,you obviously didnt read all the post. Ok Dont get Butt hurt cause im unsure of your mixed up geography, I said Englands best not the whole UK.

According to WIki

England and Wales is a legal unit within the UK it consist of England and Wales 2OF THE FOUR COUNTRIES inTHE UK!!! UNlike Scotland and Northen Ireland:deal ( There that explains my inclusion of Wales and not putting Scotland ,Northern Ireland. But ill go on)

England and Wales follow the legal system known as ENGish Law and the 2 form the constitutional succesor to the former Kingdom of England.
ENGLAND AND WALES ARE THEREFORE TREATED AS A SINGLE UNIT.



By the way of course Florida isnt in Texas, are you stupid or something:lol: They are 2 states in the US. Anyways my intentions on this thread is not to argue with you about your country.
I stated in an earlier post that id rate Buchanan on Par with Lewis and Calzaghe and Lynch just slightly below. Mclarnin dont qualify hes more canadian, i met the man and i detected no IRish accent he was raised in Canada i believe. I forgot to include Owen Moran and PEter Kane :patsch But i wouldnt put them in the top 10. Top 15 i might. Charley White is more american.

[Flea Man]

Yeah, being from Britain, Wikipedia is obviously a much better source :lol:

[Mr Butt]

No he wasn't,I saw a lot of Green, up close ,he was a face first fighter who got to domestic level and did not progress from there.


mcvey we differ for once i feel in a match-up between the two green would of beaten hatton but it would be a very close fight .and yes green was a face first fighter i did not intend to make him sound like a slick boxer

[anarci]

Yeah, being from Britain, Wikipedia is obviously a much better source :lol: Good im glad you agree with me:good

Cool Avi:good

[essexboy]

Dave Charnley probably deserves to be above Hatton as well. Im not even a Hatton detractor but I keep thinking of more worthy fighters.

[anarci]

Dave Charnley probably deserves to be above Hatton as well. Im not even a Hatton detractor but I keep thinking of more worthy fighters. Charnley was a good fighter and beat some good names but i wouldnt put him above Hatton.

Looks like Hatton is another in the long list of modern fighters that is underrated.

[ron u.k.]

Dave Charnley probably deserves to be above Hatton as well. Im not even a Hatton detractor but I keep thinking of more worthy fighters. You beat me to it. Charnley is always criminally ignored on these lists.

[mcvey]

Charnley was a good fighter and beat some good names but i wouldnt put him above Hatton.

Looks like Hatton is another in the long list of modern fighters that is underrated.

I would.