Can Stanley Ketchel be considered one of the most durable fighters of all time?

[Maxmomer]

In his career he was stopped twice. Once by a great MW puncher in Billy Papke, who, from most accounts I read, only won that fight because he sucker-punched Ketchel in the throat when Ketchel went to touch-gloves. And the other time by 205 pound Jack Johnson, an ATG HW with good HW power. Could any natural middleweight, weighing in at 170 pounds, have taken the punch that Johnson put Ketchel out with? And he was stirring at the count of ten. He stopped the excellent MW contender Joe Thomas in the 32nd round, which speaks volumes for his stamina and general toughness. He reportedly took some big punches from Sam Langford, arguably the greatest puncher of all time and who outweighed Stanley by upward toward 15 pounds or more when they fought, and while hurt on a couple of occasions, never went down, and even came on strong in the final round. And all of this in the first decade of the century, with small gloves.

So, can Ketchel be ranked up there with guys like LaMotta, Hagler, Jeffires and Chuvalo as one of the most durable fighters of all time?

[mcvey]

In his career he was stopped twice. Once by a great MW puncher in Billy Papke, who, from most accounts I read, only won that fight because he sucker-punched Ketchel in the throat when Ketchel went to touch-gloves. And the other time by 205 pound Jack Johnson, an ATG HW with good HW power. Could any natural middleweight, weighing in at 170 pounds, have taken the punch that Johnson put Ketchel out with? And he was stirring at the count of ten. He stopped the excellent MW contender Joe Thomas in the 32nd round, which speaks volumes for his stamina and general toughness. He reportedly took some big punches from Sam Langford, arguably the greatest puncher of all time and who outweighed Stanley by upward toward 15 pounds or more when they fought, and while hurt on a couple of occasions, never went down, and even came on strong in the final round. And all of this in the first decade of the century, with small gloves.

So, can Ketchel be ranked up there with guys like LaMotta, Hagler, Jeffires and Chuvalo as one of the most durable fighters of all time?

Its hard to get a true handle on Stan ,he had all time power,and carried it late, but he died so early ,how do we evaluate what he might have been?
I think the Langford fight is" questionable", there are strong rumours Sam took it easy ,with a view to securing a title shot,down the line.
Ketchel is an atg,imo,`but he was a "work in progress " when he died imo.

A modern parallell ,might be Salvador Sanchez .

[McGrain]

He can be considered one of the most badass fighters of all time.

[burt bienstock]

Boxing fans, to put Stanley Ketchell, in a proper perspective, picture a Gerald Mclellan,with superior durability chin, and stamina, able to fight 20 to 40 round bouts against some larger top fighters of his time.Tough as rawhide and game as a bulldog was the"Michigan Assassin". Unfortunately,modern fans forget his 49 ko's, but judge him by 2 remaing films surviving .One film was with the great Billy Papke in 1909,when he broke one hand , but still won a 20 round bout...Tough to do,but not at his best..The other film was with the great and powerful Jack Johnson, in 1909,in which he was outclassed but still dropped Johnson with a right to the forehead, in the 12th round....Judging Ketchell by these two remaining films,and not his 49 ko,s in 62 bouts, is a travisty.Picture 100 years from now looking at Ray Robinson with Ralph Tiger Jones, or Ali with leon Spinks or Larry Holmes. We must rate old time boxers bytheir records and by the boxing experts who saw them at their peaks..Same with the great Ketchell

[Maxmomer]

He can be considered one of the most badass fighters of all time.

Yes. That's beyond debate. That's fact. I read a cool story about him being ejected from Jim Jeffries camp during training for the Johnson fight. Jeffries didn't like how friendly Ketchel was with Johnson.

[techks]

Boxing fans, to put Stanley Ketchell, in a proper perspective, picture a Gerald Mclellan,with superior durability chin, and stamina, able to fight 20 to 40 round bouts against some larger top fighters of his time.Tough as rawhide and game as a bulldog was the"Michigan Assassin". Unfortunately,modern fans forget his 49 ko's, but judge him by 2 remaing films surviving .One film was with the great Billy Papke in 1909,when he broke one hand , but still won a 20 round bout...Tough to do,but not at his best..The other film was with the great and powerful Jack Johnson, in 1909,in which he was outclassed but still dropped Johnson with a right to the forehead, in the 12th round....Judging Ketchell by these two remaining films,and not his 49 ko,s in 62 bouts, is a travisty.Picture 100 years from now looking at Ray Robinson with Ralph Tiger Jones, or Ali with leon Spinks or Larry Holmes. We must rate old time boxers bytheir records and by the boxing experts who saw them at their peaks..Same with the great Ketchell

:good
It's a shame when there aren't enough surviving films of great fighters. All that footage......gone:-(.

[Russell]

Not even fucking close.

I haven't seen James Toney nearly killed by one punch from heavyweights at the age of nearly 40 who punched much harder then Johnson.

Durable and rugged, but the most durable fighter of all time? :lol::lol:

[Meast]

He can be considered one of the most badass fighters of all time.

After reading the article you posted on his a few days ago, I agree 100%

[Maxmomer]

Not even fucking close.

I haven't seen James Toney nearly killed by one punch from heavyweights at the age of nearly 40 who punched much harder then Johnson.

Durable and rugged, but the most durable fighter of all time? :lol::lol:

Did I call him the most durable fighter of all time? Where? And James Toney matured into a heavyweight, a fat one, but still a legit heavyweight. Ketchel was still just a MW with an extra 10 pounds on when he fought Johnson. How many 170 pound fighters, who fought under 160 pounds for most of their career, could take that punch from Johnson?

[techks]

Did I call him the most durable fighter of all time? Where? And James Toney matured into a heavyweight, a fat one, but still a heavy-weight. Ketchel was still just a MW with an extra 10 pounds on when he fought Johnson. How many 170 pound fighters, who fought under 160 pounds for most of their career, could take that punch from Johnson?

(crickets chirping)

[Russell]

So, can Ketchel be ranked up there with guys like LaMotta, Hagler, Jeffires and Chuvalo as one of the most durable fighters of all time?

Duuuuur.

Thats where, asking if he belongs in a group among the very most elite fighters of all time durability wise.

[Maxmomer]

Duuuuur.

Thats where, asking if he belongs in a group among the very most elite fighters of all time durability wise.

So asking if a fighter deserves to be considered one of the most durable fighters of all time is exactly the same as stating that he is themost the most durable fighter of all time?

[Russell]

Even asking if Ketchel belongs in there with a Chuvalo or McCall is a fairly dumb question in my opinion. Not trying to be a dick, but yeah.

[techks]

Even asking if Ketchel belongs in there with a Chuvalo or McCall is a fairly dumb question in my opinion. Not trying to be a dick, but yeah.

No it's ok to be a dick on some occassions. Sometimes you have to stand erect with your opinion:rofl.

[Russell]

No it's ok to be a dick on some occassions. Sometimes you have to stand erect with your opinion:rofl.

I guess it depends on the balls you've got. :lol:

[The Morlocks]

He can be considered one of the most badass fighters of all time.
word on the street is he is dead. don't mean to start rumors though. you know my motto, if you are going to talk bad about someone, sit next to me

[Brian123]

In his career he was stopped twice. Once by a great MW puncher in Billy Papke, who, from most accounts I read, only won that fight because he sucker-punched Ketchel in the throat when Ketchel went to touch-gloves. And the other time by 205 pound Jack Johnson, an ATG HW with good HW power. Could any natural middleweight, weighing in at 170 pounds, have taken the punch that Johnson put Ketchel out with? And he was stirring at the count of ten. He stopped the excellent MW contender Joe Thomas in the 32nd round, which speaks volumes for his stamina and general toughness. He reportedly took some big punches from Sam Langford, arguably the greatest puncher of all time and who outweighed Stanley by upward toward 15 pounds or more when they fought, and while hurt on a couple of occasions, never went down, and even came on strong in the final round. And all of this in the first decade of the century, with small gloves.

So, can Ketchel be ranked up there with guys like LaMotta, Hagler, Jeffires and Chuvalo as one of the most durable fighters of all time?

Good points, I would say yes he was and time would have proved it more if he had not been so tragically cut down. Going 32 rounds with a world champ 30 lbs. heavier and another 32 and 20 rounds with huge (20-30 lbs) heavier tells you all you need to know. Ketchel dying at age twenty-four-he had so many more fights in him.

FWIW (from Wikipedia) he faced four hall of famers during his career, some of history's best middleweights, light heavyweights, and heavyweights included among them. Nat Fleischer ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), the late ring historian and founding editor of The Ring ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) magazine, considered Stanley to be the greatest middleweight in history.

[burt bienstock]

Stanley Ketchell really did not weigh 170 pounds for his bout wuith Jack Johnson in 1909... I have read many articles of that period that claimed Ketchell,{ a natural 154 pound,fighter] was less then 160 lbs...I have an old picture of Ketchell before the bout dressed in a long coat, wearing high boots,making him look larger.Ketchell was an animal in his prime tremendous and cruel two handed puncher, fearing no one..Only a killers gun in 1910,ko'd Stanley forever...What a fighter he was to everyone that saw the "Michigan Assassin", Stanley Ketchel....