A Yank Asks: So, what's your take on Pavlik?

[marting]

I'm curious as to the British fan's assessment of Pavlik and particularly his chances in the super middleweight division. I think the perspective from your side of the pond might offer a little clarity until the dust settles in the post fight frothing going on in the states. There's a little too much chest thumping from the Taylor haters and swooning for Pavlik bandwagoneers to get some reasonable assessments stateside. There are a few and I've already gleaned those two or three.

I know there's some overhyping so spare the anti-US stuff just give me honest opinions.

[rydersonthestorm]

I think he loses to calzaghe and kessler but think he beats arthur abraham and any of the other middleweights. I do however think when joe is gone he would have a good shot at taking on the super middlweights as well, however i think joe is too slick for him and kessler has to much accuracy and power. He might be able to change my mind when he has had a few more fight's but beating jt and miranda doesn't equate to being able to go up and beat the best two fighter's at a higher weight class, both of whom are considered better than miranda and jt.

[Dunky McCafferty]

You asked an honest question, so I will give you an honest answer.

Pavlik IMO is one hell of a fighter. Totally old school, no fancy bullshit, he knows he has big power & fights to his strengths, walking foward & landing bombs thanks to his long arms, which means even top guys like Taylor cant jab & move against him without being caught in return. & he proved against a massive puncher like Taylor he has the heart of a lion to match when the fight looked as if it was going against him to pull through.

I mean, to KO Miranda was great enough, but to then go on & destroy Taylor in the same round? You cant argue with that, he brutally took out two great fighters in their primes.

& thats from me, a true neutral when it comes to overseas fighters. Pavlik has got the lot. Im not into discussing what he will or will not do in the future, but for now hes the man, & deservedly so.

[eddie007]

Exactly what DM said, he is a true fighters fighter. He is exactly what boxing needs.

[TBooze]

Great heart and excellent punch, and it has got him a long way, but the Middleweight Champion historically has been an excellent all-rounder, Pavlik is not that.

[sean]

pavlik proved that heart/will to win/power as well as abilty overcomes more accomplished well rounded fighters.

as with miranda he picks a gameplan and executes.

what more can you ask from a fighter.
i have seen other fights from pavlik where he boxed of the backfoot v limited fighters and controlled the fight, so he can mix it up and fight different styles which makes him a good fighter.


strengths/
will to win/power/height and reach/good chin/heart/natural warrior/adaptabilty/stamina/focus and single mindedness/
nice variety on offense/great finisher/can go up and down the gears/

weaknesses/
leg movement/head movement/bit reckless on offense with his left not guading against the cross/needs to shorten his punches a little more on the inside to stop getting counterd.

one more thing he is a real crowd pleaser and entertaining to watch and will get a big following and so will be good for boxing.

no need for him to move up to 168, his advantages are at 160 and i presume with his last 2 perfotrmances the american tv will be all over him with money.

john duddy is a nice easy fight and good money so he should cash in before his body forces him to move up.

[stuey]

i am bang on the pavlik bandwagon, he is a breath of fresh air, fights like he loves it, proper exciting too.
great talent, great personality, exactly what boxing needs...

[gutto]

Can not fault Pavlik at this stage last 2 fights fantastic great recovery in the 3rd round against jt can not wait to see more pavlik fights down loading some as we speak (type):happy

[Nemesis]

You asked an honest question, so I will give you an honest answer.

Pavlik IMO is one hell of a fighter. Totally old school, no fancy bullshit, he knows he has big power & fights to his strengths, walking foward & landing bombs thanks to his long arms, which means even top guys like Taylor cant jab & move against him without being caught in return. & he proved against a massive puncher like Taylor he has the heart of a lion to match when the fight looked as if it was going against him to pull through.

I mean, to KO Miranda was great enough, but to then go on & destroy Taylor in the same round? You cant argue with that, he brutally took out two great fighters in their primes.

& thats from me, a true neutral when it comes to overseas fighters. Pavlik has got the lot. Im not into discussing what he will or will not do in the future, but for now hes the man, & deservedly so.

agreed!

The thing is people keep complaining about him needing to improve his boxing ability and defence, which if he did would not make him the fighter he is today.

He provides entertainment and his willing to stick his life on the line (literally), which is rare in boxing today, I'm a fan :good

[The Kurgan]

Fun to watch, but overhyped.

[Boro chris]

Big, strong, tough and I really liked his composure when under fire in the 2nd last sat.
I place him just a level below Kessler and Calzaghe at the moment but he should improve in the next couple of years.
The only middle who will give him problems is Abraham as Pavliks defensive vulnerabilities are obvious, AA hits quite a bit harder than Taylor imo so its a risky fight but I'd still favour Pavlik. Sturm isn't gonna want to know however.:D
Duddy is a is a sacrificial lamb and a very cynical display of matchmaking but thats boxing I suppose.

At 168 lbs is where its at in the next couple of years. If Calzaghe manages to get past Kessler but takes plenty of punishment he might be a tempting target. If Kessler wins then thats the guy I dont see KP beating. Of course we'll find out a lot more about him after the nov. unification fight.

[brown bomber]

i'm a fan- don't think he's going to last long but i'll be watching all the way

[David UK]

I think Pavlik is the real deal. He definately has bad intentions!! He reminds me a lot (stylewise) of Mark Kaylor, albeit a better version

[dwilson]

I am on the Pavlik bandwagon and can not see any of the other middles doing much to bother him, the europeans are crap apart from AA who people either rate or hate so a jump up to supermiddle would be interesting.

[TBooze]

He reminds me a lot (stylewise) of Mark Kaylor, albeit a better version

That has to be the mother of all understatements! But I think there is a compliment in there somewhere.;)

[Steve Fox]

Pavlik could make a few defences, but he looks ripe for undoing by a fighter with a plan.

[rooq]

pavlik is definitely going to be more fun to watch than taylor. i'd like to see him face AA though so there can be no debate about how is number 1 in the middleweight division.

i don't think he should move up to SMW for a few years yet, unless hes struggling to make weight.

[EspadaYdaga]

I think most people respect his power and heart, but he is going to come undone eventually. Abraham would be a good fight that I'd expect him to come through, but after that there is little left for him in the MW division.

He'll get a hammering off Calzaghe and Kessler I fear.

[buddynabuick]

i am bang on the pavlik bandwagon, he is a breath of fresh air, fights like he loves it, proper exciting too.
great talent, great personality, exactly what boxing needs...



I would say the same thing irregardless of where he is from:good Hes a goodin

[achillesthegreat]

Big, strong, powerful and mentally/physically relentless.

Enough said.

[Jack Dempsey]

You asked an honest question, so I will give you an honest answer.

Pavlik IMO is one hell of a fighter. Totally old school, no fancy bullshit, he knows he has big power & fights to his strengths, walking foward & landing bombs thanks to his long arms, which means even top guys like Taylor cant jab & move against him without being caught in return. & he proved against a massive puncher like Taylor he has the heart of a lion to match when the fight looked as if it was going against him to pull through.

I mean, to KO Miranda was great enough, but to then go on & destroy Taylor in the same round? You cant argue with that, he brutally took out two great fighters in their primes.

& thats from me, a true neutral when it comes to overseas fighters. Pavlik has got the lot. Im not into discussing what he will or will not do in the future, but for now hes the man, & deservedly so.

Agreed:yikes

Thats gotta be a first

[bizness]

pavlik superb fighter very suprised he took taylor out,but think hopkins would take him to school.

[marting]

pavlik proved that heart/will to win/power as well as abilty overcomes more accomplished well rounded fighters.

as with miranda he picks a gameplan and executes.

what more can you ask from a fighter.
i have seen other fights from pavlik where he boxed of the backfoot v limited fighters and controlled the fight, so he can mix it up and fight different styles which makes him a good fighter.


strengths/
will to win/power/height and reach/good chin/heart/natural warrior/adaptabilty/stamina/focus and single mindedness/
nice variety on offense/great finisher/can go up and down the gears/

weaknesses/
leg movement/head movement/bit reckless on offense with his left not guading against the cross/needs to shorten his punches a little more on the inside to stop getting counterd.

one more thing he is a real crowd pleaser and entertaining to watch and will get a big following and so will be good for boxing.

no need for him to move up to 168, his advantages are at 160 and i presume with his last 2 perfotrmances the american tv will be all over him with money.

john duddy is a nice easy fight and good money so he should cash in before his body forces him to move up.


I too saw some of those "off the backfoot abilities" in the Taylor fight where he changed gears a bit and actually was outboxing Taylor. Landing jabs and covering nicely. Althought the judges didn't seem to see them that way. That ability to make changes really surprised me. If he develops that skillset I think he could be extremely difficult for anybody. I'd like to see him completely can the showboating thing.

I think when he fights a nonstop forward fight he could be had by a classic counterpuncher who had some whiskers but those are rare traits and would give anyone problems.

I don't think his defense is all bad but you're right he could use a little more head movement.

One trait that I like is he's a finisher. That's a skill that will serve him well.

[Nemesis]

Agreed:yikes

Thats gotta be a first

I know!

and not one anti-english element to the post at all, Dunky must've been sober





*Dunkster, you know I only jest ;)

[Healy]

Great person, in and out of the ring

Big fan

[rumour24tiger]

First off, Pavlik is not hyped. He learned his trade with no fanfare whatsoever apart from a hometown fight with Lenoard Pierre which drew a good home crowd.

Taylor's move to the top was cosmetic; Pavlik got there through gritty performances vs Zuniga, Zertuche, Miranda and Taylor. Learned how to fight in his own time and took his shot when he was ready.

Taylor was hyped - he got a title shot because he scored a KO on a Hopkins undercard and had an Olympic medal. Pavlik was reluctantly given HBO dates; Miranda was the prefered man to face Taylor (see HBO build up).

My thoughts on Pavlik - awesome will, stamina and power. Terrific punch repertoire. He's a rare Yank that I root for. Needs to polish up & grow into the title and - as Arum says - fight 4 times a year.

I don't accept that he's technically inept. Look at his solid boxing in rd 1 vs Taylor and look how, in the 7th, he found his rhythm and beat Taylor with long jabs & rights. He's got to start relying on the jab a bit because it's a snappy jab and in all honesty I want to see him in the game a long time.

With his size and reach you'd have to say few ppl are totally safe against him. Take some tune ups on network TV, have an optional defense vs Duddy, cash in with lucrative bout with either Taylor rematch or Mora and close next year by taking on Abraham.

Pav's in good hands - Arum promoted Toney and McCallum (though he maybe over promoted Toney and undersold McC)...

Pavlik & Abe in the same division will be like Julian Jackson/Nigel Benn/Gerald McClellan. Lot to learn but he can be a good super middle, maybe even a title holder though probably not lineal champ.