Re-watched Miranda-Abraham.

[Jose FM]

All these poster on here are obsessed with this guy Abraham and I dont know why. I dont how this guys beats Pavlik or actually even Taylor for that matter. Here are a few observations from this fight. There is no particular order to anything just things i penned down.

1. Abraham swings wildly, anyone with technical ability would left hook this guy to death. Also this guy doesnt even set anything up, you can clearly see what he wants to do, no jab, just hooks.

2. Abraham has the poor man's Winky Wright Peek-o-boo defense.

3. Abraham has no lateral movement and as flat-footed as anyone, just cause of his line Pavlik would kill this guy.

4. In the fight Miranda head-butted Abraham, but it really wasnt that big of a deal for a 2 point deduction! This is probably the biggest BS call ive ever seen, a 2 point deduction when there wasnt even a warning and did not cause a cut? Ridiculuos.

5. When Abraham was head-butted, his trainer was helping him with this mouth. Again, mad BS! And it was obvious that he wasnt hurting from the head-butt but from his mouth.

6. Although i have watched the hungarian version of the fight, you can clearly hear the referee saying that he should stop the fight due to Abrahams injury, but since it would go to the cards the referee saw that Miranda would win via TKO and thus was gonna continue the fight. More BS. I have a feeling that if the fight had been in MSG Arthur Merchante Jr. would have been telling Abraham to "suck it up" (love that guy).

7. Abraham tried to SRL his way to stealing rounds but aside from the occasional 15 sec flurries, he really didnt do much.

8. Abraham was clearly hurt in the 10th and kept trying to run, and the DUMBASS referee kept jumping in when Miranda was gonna finish him and asking if he was OK. WTFFFF!!!!!! This made me so friggin mad, obviously hes not OK, stop the fight!

9. Tenth and Twelve rounds should have been 10-8 rounds for Miranda, Abraham did nothing but run! Nothing!

10. This guy is another ABC title holder from Europe that will probably never want to face a legitimate threat like Pavlik or even Taylor, im not biased, its just pathetic.

11. The referee, the IBF, and the judges should be ashamed of themselves, the fight is a disgrace to boxing.:-(

In the end i had it 113-111 Miranda, even with the 5 points deductions for Miranda.

OK Euros, come at me!

[Ring Master]

With all that said he is still a top 3 middleweight at the moment.

[the_what]

With all that said he is still a top 3 middleweight at the moment.

Abraham has been the number 1 contender for the Middleweight title since summer of '06. I think he has a great chance at beating Pavlik and it would be one hell of a fight.

[Jose FM]

Abraham has been the number 1 contender for the Middleweight title since summer of '06. I think he has a great chance at beating Pavlik and it would be one hell of a fight.
Wrong, it would be a blow out... this guy back up into the ropes wayy too much against Miranda, if he does that with Pavlik, which he would cause he has no lateral movement. Pavlik would unload and finish him.

[Quik]

Your right, Abraham would be no match for Taylor or Pavlik and Fights in Germany are frauds most of the time. They overprotect fighters who would be no match for good fighters from rest of the world if the fights took place in any other countries than Germany. But thats nothing new. I wonder why fighters still go fight in Germany knowing they are gonna get rob. Even if Miranda knocked AA out they wouldve made it a NC or something....

[Quik]

No Contender was Koren Grevor who i dont place in top 10 MW at the moment and even tho, AA had an hard time dealing with him.

[the_what]

Wrong, it would be a blow out... this guy back up into the ropes wayy too much against Miranda, if he does that with Pavlik, which he would cause he has no lateral movement. Pavlik would unload and finish him.

He did fight with a broken jaw from rounds 4 and on. I think that had something to do with it. And ive seem him in against solid guys like his stoppage of Ikeke (which was clinical), the boxing lesson he gave Jantuah, and his last fight where he KTFO Gevor. You cant judge Abraham off of the Miranda fight alone.

[Carlos Primera]

the head butt and one low blow were legit, but the others deductions were BS.

[geppy]

Abraham could fight Miranda 9 more times and not break his chin and have an impressive fight. You cant see that gruesome injury seriously effected his performance? What do you think he fights like that every fight? Abraham couldnt fight his fight with a broken jaw against a brutal puncher.

[Shane]

Abraham=Paper Champion Who was getting outboxed by miranda mind you and got his jaw broken too...i would be surprised if he decides to leave his hometown and fight out of his country.

[Quik]

Abraham has been the number 1 contender for the Middleweight title since summer of '06. I think he has a great chance at beating Pavlik and it would be one hell of a fight.

No1 Contender was Koren Grevor who i dont place in top 10 MW at the moment and even tho, AA had an hard time dealing with him before he knocked him out.

There was also Miranda who got robbed of 10 different ways in one single fight.

So saying he knocked out a very good class C fighter in Grevor and robbed a very dangerous fighter in Miranda doesnt put it in the same class as Pavlik, Taylor, Wright or any other top MW at the moment.

[Boom_Boom]

I had Abraham winning because of those BS point reductions, but anyone who had Abraham winning more rounds than Miranda is just blind as a bat and should jump over to the MMA shit and stay there. Nothing special about Abraham, Taylor and Pavlik would both KO him.

[JETSKI]

All these poster on here are obsessed with this guy Abraham and I dont know why. I dont how this guys beats Pavlik or actually even Taylor for that matter. Here are a few observations from this fight. There is no particular order to anything just things i penned down.

1. Abraham swings wildly, anyone with technical ability would left hook this guy to death. Also this guy doesnt even set anything up, you can clearly see what he wants to do, no jab, just hooks.

2. Abraham has the poor man's Winky Wright Peek-o-boo defense.

3. Abraham has no lateral movement and as flat-footed as anyone, just cause of his line Pavlik would kill this guy.

4. In the fight Miranda head-butted Abraham, but it really wasnt that big of a deal for a 2 point deduction! This is probably the biggest BS call ive ever seen, a 2 point deduction when there wasnt even a warning and did not cause a cut? Ridiculuos.

5. When Abraham was head-butted, his trainer was helping him with this mouth. Again, mad BS! And it was obvious that he wasnt hurting from the head-butt but from his mouth.

6. Although i have watched the hungarian version of the fight, you can clearly hear the referee saying that he should stop the fight due to Abrahams injury, but since it would go to the cards the referee saw that Miranda would win via TKO and thus was gonna continue the fight. More BS. I have a feeling that if the fight had been in MSG Arthur Merchante Jr. would have been telling Abraham to "suck it up" (love that guy).

7. Abraham tried to SRL his way to stealing rounds but aside from the occasional 15 sec flurries, he really didnt do much.

8. Abraham was clearly hurt in the 10th and kept trying to run, and the DUMBASS referee kept jumping in when Miranda was gonna finish him and asking if he was OK. WTFFFF!!!!!! This made me so friggin mad, obviously hes not OK, stop the fight!

9. Tenth and Twelve rounds should have been 10-8 rounds for Miranda, Abraham did nothing but run! Nothing!

10. This guy is another ABC title holder from Europe that will probably never want to face a legitimate threat like Pavlik or even Taylor, im not biased, its just pathetic.

11. The referee, the IBF, and the judges should be ashamed of themselves, the fight is a disgrace to boxing.:-(

In the end i had it 113-111 Miranda, even with the 5 points deductions for Miranda.

OK Euros, come at me!

Great analysis & I didn't even see this fight. But I'll take your word for it.

Pavlik by KO

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[brooklyn1550]

I don't see him beating Kelly Pavlik, but he is a respectable title holder who deserves a crack at Pavlik.

[EspadaYdaga]

Koki Kameda

[Toopretty]

All these poster on here are obsessed with this guy Abraham and I dont know why. I dont how this guys beats Pavlik or actually even Taylor for that matter. Here are a few observations from this fight. There is no particular order to anything just things i penned down.

1. Abraham swings wildly, anyone with technical ability would left hook this guy to death. Also this guy doesnt even set anything up, you can clearly see what he wants to do, no jab, just hooks.

2. Abraham has the poor man's Winky Wright Peek-o-boo defense.

3. Abraham has no lateral movement and as flat-footed as anyone, just cause of his line Pavlik would kill this guy.

4. In the fight Miranda head-butted Abraham, but it really wasnt that big of a deal for a 2 point deduction! This is probably the biggest BS call ive ever seen, a 2 point deduction when there wasnt even a warning and did not cause a cut? Ridiculuos.

5. When Abraham was head-butted, his trainer was helping him with this mouth. Again, mad BS! And it was obvious that he wasnt hurting from the head-butt but from his mouth.

6. Although i have watched the hungarian version of the fight, you can clearly hear the referee saying that he should stop the fight due to Abrahams injury, but since it would go to the cards the referee saw that Miranda would win via TKO and thus was gonna continue the fight. More BS. I have a feeling that if the fight had been in MSG Arthur Merchante Jr. would have been telling Abraham to "suck it up" (love that guy).

7. Abraham tried to SRL his way to stealing rounds but aside from the occasional 15 sec flurries, he really didnt do much.

8. Abraham was clearly hurt in the 10th and kept trying to run, and the DUMBASS referee kept jumping in when Miranda was gonna finish him and asking if he was OK. WTFFFF!!!!!! This made me so friggin mad, obviously hes not OK, stop the fight!

9. Tenth and Twelve rounds should have been 10-8 rounds for Miranda, Abraham did nothing but run! Nothing!

10. This guy is another ABC title holder from Europe that will probably never want to face a legitimate threat like Pavlik or even Taylor, im not biased, its just pathetic.

11. The referee, the IBF, and the judges should be ashamed of themselves, the fight is a disgrace to boxing.:-(

In the end i had it 113-111 Miranda, even with the 5 points deductions for Miranda.

OK Euros, come at me!
You are usually a clown that loves to see wild swinging no boxing fighters like Burger Crap King Abraham. WHO I have been tauting as an overrated hooligan amongst credible fighters. You analyzed his whole style to perfection. I am surprised at this. I figured you would go with the flow and say Abraham would beat Taylor and has a good chance with Pavlik. Though Miranda whooped his ass from pillar to post and broke his jaw with an uppercut. Imagine WTF Pavlik would do. And yes Abraham does swing wild hooks constantly as he is not technically sound in any department.





P.S. I used the fake-out Winky Wright defense quote about a year ago after the fight when this was a tense battle on the article part of ESB. :deal:good:good

[Toopretty]

How the fuck do you conclude its good analysis if you havn't seen the fight yourself? He could be talking complete shit for all you know. Oh I know, it's because it gives you fuel to say "Pavlik wins easy."

As it happens its a pretty fair summary of the fight with the small ommision of his jaw being smashed. :roll:

Abraham is a solid fighter, that would probably lose to Pavlik. He's still a good fighter, and anybody that says hes protected is talking out of their arse. His record is the same as Pavlik's before he got a shot at Taylor, and I didn't see him copping criticism.


For those who did not see abraham fight..............JOSE FM was spot on with every single thing he said. I mean from roota to the toota. Damn...it was hard to say that...but yes......Abraham is a solid fighter at best. He is tough. He has some power and he can fight off of the back foot. But that is about it. Pavlik would beat him like he stole something. The way abraham goes into his fake Winky shell defense..One thing..his body is exposed. Pavlik would crack those ribs and NO...those fucking shots by Miranda were on the beltline and damn for sure were not low except the one Abraham pushed down with his elbow.

[EspadaYdaga]

For those who did not see abraham fight..............JOSE FM was spot on with every single thing he said. I mean from roota to the toota. Damn...it was hard to say that...but yes......Abraham is a solid fighter at best. He is tough. He has some power and he can fight off of the back foot. But that is about it. Pavlik would beat him like he stole something. The way abraham goes into his fake Winky shell defense..One thing..his body is exposed. Pavlik would crack those ribs and NO...those fucking shots by Miranda were on the beltline and damn for sure were not low except the one Abraham pushed down with his elbow.
Like I said, I agree it's a pretty good analysis with the exception of failing to mention the broken jaw which so clearly affected his performance. I take issue with people agreeing without seeing the fight just because it suits their agenda.

[Toopretty]

All these poster on here are obsessed with this guy Abraham and I dont know why. I dont how this guys beats Pavlik or actually even Taylor for that matter. Here are a few observations from this fight. There is no particular order to anything just things i penned down.

1. Abraham swings wildly, anyone with technical ability would left hook this guy to death. Also this guy doesnt even set anything up, you can clearly see what he wants to do, no jab, just hooks.

2. Abraham has the poor man's Winky Wright Peek-o-boo defense.

3. Abraham has no lateral movement and as flat-footed as anyone, just cause of his line Pavlik would kill this guy.

4. In the fight Miranda head-butted Abraham, but it really wasnt that big of a deal for a 2 point deduction! This is probably the biggest BS call ive ever seen, a 2 point deduction when there wasnt even a warning and did not cause a cut? Ridiculuos.

5. When Abraham was head-butted, his trainer was helping him with this mouth. Again, mad BS! And it was obvious that he wasnt hurting from the head-butt but from his mouth.

6. Although i have watched the hungarian version of the fight, you can clearly hear the referee saying that he should stop the fight due to Abrahams injury, but since it would go to the cards the referee saw that Miranda would win via TKO and thus was gonna continue the fight. More BS. I have a feeling that if the fight had been in MSG Arthur Merchante Jr. would have been telling Abraham to "suck it up" (love that guy).

7. Abraham tried to SRL his way to stealing rounds but aside from the occasional 15 sec flurries, he really didnt do much.

8. Abraham was clearly hurt in the 10th and kept trying to run, and the DUMBASS referee kept jumping in when Miranda was gonna finish him and asking if he was OK. WTFFFF!!!!!! This made me so friggin mad, obviously hes not OK, stop the fight!

9. Tenth and Twelve rounds should have been 10-8 rounds for Miranda, Abraham did nothing but run! Nothing!

10. This guy is another ABC title holder from Europe that will probably never want to face a legitimate threat like Pavlik or even Taylor, im not biased, its just pathetic.

11. The referee, the IBF, and the judges should be ashamed of themselves, the fight is a disgrace to boxing.:-(

In the end i had it 113-111 Miranda, even with the 5 points deductions for Miranda.

OK Euros, come at me!

:rofl:rofl:rofl:good:good:good I said the same damn thing...Miranda was fighting Abraham and the Ref that night.. Miranda had Abraham hurt going into the ropes and here comes super ref...Pushing Miranda off of him "Are you Ok?" Verbatem is what the fuck the ref said. I have never seen any shit like that my whole life. He is getting his ass whooped in a boxing match. Of course he is not OK. He is not supposed to be OK. Miranda had to knock him and the Ref out to win the fight. I personaly would of loved to see him mistakenly crack the ref for jumping in when he had Abraham almost out of there. :lol::D

[Toopretty]

Like I said, I agree it's a pretty good analysis with the exception of failing to mention the broken jaw which so clearly affected his performance. I take issue with people agreeing without seeing the fight just because it suits their agenda.

He got his jaw smashed b/c Miranda broke his shit with a punch. And your point is. His jaw did not break by itself. That is just our point of his fake Winky defense.

[EspadaYdaga]

Koki Kameda

[Carlos Primera]

randy neumann is incompetent. the headbutt and perhaps one low blow were legit deductions, but the others were horrible calls. 2 punches were clearly on the belt line, and abraham was'nt even hurt by them (which indicated the punches were'nt low).

[El Bombasto]

All these poster on here are obsessed with this guy Abraham and I dont know why. I dont how this guys beats Pavlik or actually even Taylor for that matter. Here are a few observations from this fight. There is no particular order to anything just things i penned down.

1. Abraham swings wildly, anyone with technical ability would left hook this guy to death. Also this guy doesnt even set anything up, you can clearly see what he wants to do, no jab, just hooks.

2. Abraham has the poor man's Winky Wright Peek-o-boo defense.

3. Abraham has no lateral movement and as flat-footed as anyone, just cause of his line Pavlik would kill this guy.

4. In the fight Miranda head-butted Abraham, but it really wasnt that big of a deal for a 2 point deduction! This is probably the biggest BS call ive ever seen, a 2 point deduction when there wasnt even a warning and did not cause a cut? Ridiculuos.

5. When Abraham was head-butted, his trainer was helping him with this mouth. Again, mad BS! And it was obvious that he wasnt hurting from the head-butt but from his mouth.

6. Although i have watched the hungarian version of the fight, you can clearly hear the referee saying that he should stop the fight due to Abrahams injury, but since it would go to the cards the referee saw that Miranda would win via TKO and thus was gonna continue the fight. More BS. I have a feeling that if the fight had been in MSG Arthur Merchante Jr. would have been telling Abraham to "suck it up" (love that guy).

7. Abraham tried to SRL his way to stealing rounds but aside from the occasional 15 sec flurries, he really didnt do much.

8. Abraham was clearly hurt in the 10th and kept trying to run, and the DUMBASS referee kept jumping in when Miranda was gonna finish him and asking if he was OK. WTFFFF!!!!!! This made me so friggin mad, obviously hes not OK, stop the fight!

9. Tenth and Twelve rounds should have been 10-8 rounds for Miranda, Abraham did nothing but run! Nothing!

10. This guy is another ABC title holder from Europe that will probably never want to face a legitimate threat like Pavlik or even Taylor, im not biased, its just pathetic.

11. The referee, the IBF, and the judges should be ashamed of themselves, the fight is a disgrace to boxing.:-(

In the end i had it 113-111 Miranda, even with the 5 points deductions for Miranda.

OK Euros, come at me!

I hope you're not basing the entirety of your opinion on one fight in which he had a broken jaw

[MrStayman]

I've pasted Abraham from his performance in this fight, but I need to watch more of him to cement my opinion :good

[Jose FM]

You are usually a clown that loves to see wild swinging no boxing fighters like Burger Crap King Abraham. WHO I have been tauting as an overrated hooligan amongst credible fighters. You analyzed his whole style to perfection. I am surprised at this. I figured you would go with the flow and say Abraham would beat Taylor and has a good chance with Pavlik. Though Miranda whooped his ass from pillar to post and broke his jaw with an uppercut. Imagine WTF Pavlik would do. And yes Abraham does swing wild hooks constantly as he is not technically sound in any department.





P.S. I used the fake-out Winky Wright defense quote about a year ago after the fight when this was a tense battle on the article part of ESB. :deal:good:good
Just cause i dont like Mayweather doesnt mean i dont like boxing... Same thing that happened to Taylor will happen to mayweather when he faces Cotto!:good

[Kamil]

All these poster on here are obsessed with this guy Abraham and I dont know why. I dont how this guys beats Pavlik or actually even Taylor for that matter. Here are a few observations from this fight. There is no particular order to anything just things i penned down.

1. Abraham swings wildly, anyone with technical ability would left hook this guy to death. Also this guy doesnt even set anything up, you can clearly see what he wants to do, no jab, just hooks.

2. Abraham has the poor man's Winky Wright Peek-o-boo defense.

3. Abraham has no lateral movement and as flat-footed as anyone, just cause of his line Pavlik would kill this guy.

4. In the fight Miranda head-butted Abraham, but it really wasnt that big of a deal for a 2 point deduction! This is probably the biggest BS call ive ever seen, a 2 point deduction when there wasnt even a warning and did not cause a cut? Ridiculuos.

5. When Abraham was head-butted, his trainer was helping him with this mouth. Again, mad BS! And it was obvious that he wasnt hurting from the head-butt but from his mouth.

6. Although i have watched the hungarian version of the fight, you can clearly hear the referee saying that he should stop the fight due to Abrahams injury, but since it would go to the cards the referee saw that Miranda would win via TKO and thus was gonna continue the fight. More BS. I have a feeling that if the fight had been in MSG Arthur Merchante Jr. would have been telling Abraham to "suck it up" (love that guy).

7. Abraham tried to SRL his way to stealing rounds but aside from the occasional 15 sec flurries, he really didnt do much.

8. Abraham was clearly hurt in the 10th and kept trying to run, and the DUMBASS referee kept jumping in when Miranda was gonna finish him and asking if he was OK. WTFFFF!!!!!! This made me so friggin mad, obviously hes not OK, stop the fight!

9. Tenth and Twelve rounds should have been 10-8 rounds for Miranda, Abraham did nothing but run! Nothing!

10. This guy is another ABC title holder from Europe that will probably never want to face a legitimate threat like Pavlik or even Taylor, im not biased, its just pathetic.

11. The referee, the IBF, and the judges should be ashamed of themselves, the fight is a disgrace to boxing.:-(

In the end i had it 113-111 Miranda, even with the 5 points deductions for Miranda.

OK Euros, come at me!

good analysis, but u can't judge a fighter on 1 fight, and think u can predict any out, if i were you, i would watch his last 2 fights he had, being he did not have a broken jaw at the time, and at the same time you will see you fought in a bit different style.

The Pavlik fight would be good fight, Because there strenghs and weakness both fighters got, which makes this fight really close

[Cruiser1]

A guy like Miranda really had no shot against Abraham in Germany cuz he was basically just a Colombian slugger with very little fanfare at the time. The lesser known you are the more vulnerable you are to the vagaries of fighting in a place like Germany. There was no American TV coverage of the fight.

Now on the other hand, Kelly Pavlik is now a well-known fighter on the HBO ticket. If he were to ever fight Abraham there would be a tremendous spotlight on it and that would ensure no funny business or outside influence. With this being the case, Pavlik would soundly defeat Abraham. This better not become some RJJ/Michaelszewski argument either cuz Abraham is not as good as Pavlik.

[samita]

All these poster on here are obsessed with this guy Abraham and I dont know why. I dont how this guys beats Pavlik or actually even Taylor for that matter. Here are a few observations from this fight. There is no particular order to anything just things i penned down.

1. Abraham swings wildly, anyone with technical ability would left hook this guy to death. Also this guy doesnt even set anything up, you can clearly see what he wants to do, no jab, just hooks.

2. Abraham has the poor man's Winky Wright Peek-o-boo defense.

3. Abraham has no lateral movement and as flat-footed as anyone, just cause of his line Pavlik would kill this guy.

4. In the fight Miranda head-butted Abraham, but it really wasnt that big of a deal for a 2 point deduction! This is probably the biggest BS call ive ever seen, a 2 point deduction when there wasnt even a warning and did not cause a cut? Ridiculuos.

5. When Abraham was head-butted, his trainer was helping him with this mouth. Again, mad BS! And it was obvious that he wasnt hurting from the head-butt but from his mouth.

6. Although i have watched the hungarian version of the fight, you can clearly hear the referee saying that he should stop the fight due to Abrahams injury, but since it would go to the cards the referee saw that Miranda would win via TKO and thus was gonna continue the fight. More BS. I have a feeling that if the fight had been in MSG Arthur Merchante Jr. would have been telling Abraham to "suck it up" (love that guy).

7. Abraham tried to SRL his way to stealing rounds but aside from the occasional 15 sec flurries, he really didnt do much.

8. Abraham was clearly hurt in the 10th and kept trying to run, and the DUMBASS referee kept jumping in when Miranda was gonna finish him and asking if he was OK. WTFFFF!!!!!! This made me so friggin mad, obviously hes not OK, stop the fight!

9. Tenth and Twelve rounds should have been 10-8 rounds for Miranda, Abraham did nothing but run! Nothing!

10. This guy is another ABC title holder from Europe that will probably never want to face a legitimate threat like Pavlik or even Taylor, im not biased, its just pathetic.

11. The referee, the IBF, and the judges should be ashamed of themselves, the fight is a disgrace to boxing.:-(

In the end i had it 113-111 Miranda, even with the 5 points deductions for Miranda.

OK Euros, come at me!

completely agree with you. abraham got a gift decision and its all because he showed some courage and fought with a broken jaw. the judges basically based their scores on abraham's "courage", thats just some complete bs that lacks objectivity.

[Jose FM]

good analysis, but u can't judge a fighter on 1 fight, and think u can predict any out, if i were you, i would watch his last 2 fights he had, being he did not have a broken jaw at the time, and at the same time you will see you fought in a bit different style.

The Pavlik fight would be good fight, Because there strenghs and weakness both fighters got, which makes this fight really close
Youre right, i mean i am basing it on one fight, but it was Abrahams biggest fight and it was a farce so i what can i really say bout the guy?

[Amsterdam]

Starting to develop a grudge against German hometown corruption Jose?:yep

Welcome to the club mate, try to get your hands on some Sven Ottke bouts, the biggest fraud in the history of the MW-LHW region in history. Just disgusting.

[jisi]

Everyone knows Miranda was ROBBED!!

:good

[bigeddie27]

He did fight with a broken jaw from rounds 4 and on. I think that had something to do with it. And ive seem him in against solid guys like his stoppage of Ikeke (which was clinical), the boxing lesson he gave Jantuah, and his last fight where he KTFO Gevor. You cant judge Abraham off of the Miranda fight alone.

Juanta - you mean the guy who ouma destroyed? yeah he is a real somebody.

[bigeddie27]

Starting to develop a grudge against German hometown corruption Jose?:yep

Welcome to the club mate, try to get your hands on some Sven Ottke bouts, the biggest fraud in the history of the MW-LHW region in history. Just disgusting.

Im definetly in this club.

[EspadaYdaga]

Koki Kameda

[EspadaYdaga]

Pavlik's win over Jermain Taylor shits all over ANYTHING Abraham has done. Hell, Pavlik also looked more impressive against Pantera than Abraham did. :deal
Whatever you think of Abraham's win over Miranda, it's a win. It's on his record, and no amount of bleating is going to change that. So as it stands, he has beaten the guy that was the best name on Pavlik's CV before the Taylor fight.

[EspadaYdaga]

Koki Kameda

[curmudgeon]

OK Euros, come at me!

Why would anybody come at a dumbfuck racist like you? You clearly do not know much about boxing, and beeing from U.S has nothing to do with that.

[gambleer]

I had Miranda winning that fight (7-5) without the deduction points.

[Tom_Tocca]

I had Miranda winning that fight (7-5) without the deduction points.

7-5 for Miranda or 6-6 like I got it sounds pretty good to me...

...plus I would have deducted Miranda only 3 points (2 for the headbutt and 1 for the first low blow...).

[maciek4]

First of all you cant make a toptal assesment of a fighter based on 1 fight. Styles make fights and Miranda was not a good stylistic matchup for Abraham. Second of all you neglect an important factor in this fight which was a broken jaw from the 5th round on and Abraham basically fighting for survival. In the first 4 rounds were he wasnt injured yet you could see that he was better than Miranda.

[TitoCotto]

Abraham is overrated? Who the fuck rates him on these boards, most people are ripping the shit out of him for some reason.

Kelly Pavlik is overrated, I can't believe the fucking bandwagon jumpers on here. It will be funny when he is exposed by a decent fighter.

Please name the decent fighter that will expose him. And if you are true to what you say, then that makes Taylor and Miranda less than decent? Give me a break you are so full of it.

If you think Abraham is a World Class Fighter then that makes Ricardo Mayorga a God among men. (You probably won't get this analogy considering what you just posted)

[curmudgeon]

Please name the decent fighter that will expose him.

It is certainly possible to "expose" him (hate this term), but that would take much more then a "decent" fighter to do that.

Other belt holders do stand a chance of doing that.

[maracho]

The bottom line is that at middle weight nobody deserves a fight with Pavlik more than does Abraham. Karmazin or Spinks would be the next options unless he really wants to move up? If Pavlik does move up shouldnt he take a test fight before fighting the likes of Kessler, Calzaghe or Hopkins?

Froch would be very risky, Mundine is going blind from a fungus and Bute seems a bit unlucrative. Maybe Jeff Lacy or Winky but I think Abraham would be just as interesting as any.

[Jose FM]

Why would anybody come at a dumbfuck racist like you? You clearly do not know much about boxing, and beeing from U.S has nothing to do with that.
Im not a racist, i just said that cause its usually the Euro's on ESB that love Abraham unconditionally and i expected them to completely bash me. So, no hard feelings whitey:good ....

[Tom_Tocca]

Im not a racist, i just said that cause its usually the Euro's on ESB that love Abraham unconditionally and i expected them to completely bash me. So, no hard feelings whitey:good ....

Other than guys like you, us European boxing fans don't flame yours Americans - or have you have seen me, sean or tobkhan doing it to an American fighter?

It's in our nature not to bash but to discuss...

[Jose FM]

First of all you cant make a toptal assesment of a fighter based on 1 fight. Styles make fights and Miranda was not a good stylistic matchup for Abraham. Second of all you neglect an important factor in this fight which was a broken jaw from the 5th round on and Abraham basically fighting for survival. In the first 4 rounds were he wasnt injured yet you could see that he was better than Miranda.
Yes, i know but like i said, it was Abrahams biggest fight and he seemed defeated after the 6th round. And if styles make fights (and they do) then Pavlik would be a horrible matchup for Abraham, cause Pavlik will bring it worse than Miranda. With or without the broken jaw Abraham was still looking sloopy and was horrible technically.

[EspadaYdaga]

Koki Kameda

[Jose FM]

Other than guys like you, us European boxing fans don't flame yours Americans - or have you have seen me, sean or tobkhan doing it to an American fighter?

It's in our nature not to bash but to discuss...
OK Tom, so lets discuss the farce that was this fight. Miranda was penalized too harshly and clearly won this fight. What do you think?

[Jose FM]

I don't think he will be beaten at MW. I mean it's not exactly a great division. His biggest challenges are probably Abraham who I expect him to beat (not as easily as some muppets on here think) and Wright (not really a MW, but would give him a fight.)

But people on here are talking shit about how he's going to step up to SMW and become an ATG. Bull shit, I would be suprised if he beats B level SMW's nevermind the Calzaghe/Kessler's of this world.
So if no fighter will beat him at MW, how is he overrated again? He just knocked out the lineal MW Champ, what else do you want from the guy?

[EspadaYdaga]

Koki Kameda

[Tom_Tocca]

OK Tom, so lets discuss the farce that was this fight. Miranda was penalized too harshly and clearly won this fight. What do you think?

I already told you earlier in this thread how I saw it: 7-5 was ok to me as I had it 6-6 each...and to deduct 3 points would have been fair - the other 2 points to deduct was bs thanks to AA clowing that Neuman buy - but Miranda hit below the belt early in the fight and the ref did nothing...

So you might ask about the 2 pts deducted by the headbutt, I would say it was ok to do so by the ref because the headbutt was intentional (just read the rules of the IBF and you know why the deduction of 2 points is ok here).

And YES, I would have stopped the fight in the 5th round - but Neumann let it continue...still a stupid move. Miranda can only blame himself not to apply enough pressure and flush shots on AA body and face - hell, he just landed about 3-4 flush shots on AAs face after the fifth round.
Than you should turn your attention to both fighters faces (no, I don't mean AAs jaw)...Miranda for sure looked more puffed up - just ask your self why?

I had the first 4 round 3-1 for AA if you care...

[Jose FM]

He is overrated in relation to what he has actually achieved, and the massive hype he is getting. People on here are talking about him becoming an ATG and are seriously matching him up against the likes of Hearns. It is complete madness, he has beaten a guy 50% of this forum thought was a joke.

If he cleans out MW which is probable but not a forgone conclusion he will be deserving of the sort of hype he is getting now. It won't make him anything like an ATG, unless he steps up.
OK i get that, he has a whole lot to accomplish before he is consider an ATG, but you gotta admit, in this year alone he beat the best MW's the division had to offer in Miranda and Taylor by brutal KO's. Ive never seen in our time a lineal champ get KO'ed like that. So, i get what youre saying that he has to do more to be an ATG, thats obvious, but i dont see how hes overrated.:huh

[Jose FM]

I already told you earlier in this thread how I saw it: 7-5 was ok to me as I had it 6-6 each...and to deduct 3 points would have been fair - the other 2 points to deduct was bs thanks to AA clowing that Neuman buy - but Miranda hit below the belt early in the fight and the ref did nothing...

So you might ask about the 2 pts deducted by the headbutt, I would say it was ok to do so by the ref because the headbutt was intentional (just read the rules of the IBF and you know why the deduction of 2 points is ok here).

And YES, I would have stopped the fight in the 5th round - but Neumann let it continue...still a stupid move. Miranda can only blame himself not to apply enough pressure and flush shots on AA body and face - hell, he just landed about 3-4 flush shots on AAs face after the fifth round.
Than you should turn your attention to both fighters faces (no, I don't mean AAs jaw)...Miranda for sure looked more puffed up - just ask your self why?

I had the first 4 round 3-1 for AA if you care...
Ok, good points, but what do you say bout the 10th round when Abraham was clearly hurt and Miranda was gonna finish him and the ref kept jumping in asking Abraham if he was OK? Ive never seen that b4 in a championship fight! Complete BS, he was clearly gonna be finished. And like i said b4 the 10th and 12th should have been 10-8s for Miranda, go back and look at those rounds, Abraham does absolutely NOTHING!

[EspadaYdaga]

Koki Kameda

[Jose FM]

If talking about him becoming an ATG, talking about him against Hearns, talking about him against RJJ (!?) is not overrating him I don't know what is.

Just because I think he will clean out the MW doesn't mean he will by default. So it would be silly to start rating him as if he's already won those fights. They certainly aren't gimmes. We may as well tell the division to not bother, sorry lads Kelly has already won.
Pavlik has already done more at MW than Hearns and RJJ in the sense that he is lineal by beating the man and has 2 belts in the division.

[EspadaYdaga]

Koki Kameda

[Jose FM]

Lineal is just a fancy word. He beat Jermain Taylor. Very good win, he gets props for that. It's one win, and there is some way to go.

Personally I don't think Jermain Taylor is such a good fighter that we automatically assume that Pavlik cleans out the division by default. I really don't. We all know the circumstances around many of Taylor's wins.
Ok i agree with your assessment about the Lineal title but the fact is he beat the man. While you say he doesnt clean out the division he did beat the best fighters in Miranda and Taylor. Assuming that he fights Sturm and Abraham, who do you got in those fights?

[Jinx]

Your right, Abraham would be no match for Taylor or Pavlik and Fights in Germany are frauds most of the time. They overprotect fighters who would be no match for good fighters from rest of the world if the fights took place in any other countries than Germany. But thats nothing new. I wonder why fighters still go fight in Germany knowing they are gonna get rob. Even if Miranda knocked AA out they wouldve made it a NC or something....

and people still knock Roy Jones for not wanting to go to Germany to fight overrated DM...a guy who used to get in life and death wars with guys like Richard Hall...DM was never a match for Jones...

[EspadaYdaga]

Koki Kameda

[freddy-wak]

stupid thread...why not admire the guys heart for not quitting like many american fighers have...

[Boro chris]

Wrong, it would be a blow out... this guy back up into the ropes wayy too much against Miranda, if he does that with Pavlik, which he would cause he has no lateral movement. Pavlik would unload and finish him.

Pavlik would probably win, he's too busy and his staminas better. But Pavliks defense is poor and Abraham is a better puncher than Taylor. We could see a devastating ko win for AA. He also has a winners mentality unlike Taylor.
But you are right in saying that Pavlik is better than AA, I just think its far more competitive than you give it credit.

[Boro chris]

Im not a racist, i just said that cause its usually the Euro's on ESB that love Abraham unconditionally and i expected them to completely bash me. So, no hard feelings whitey:good ....

Ignore him he's being a prick.
Your underating AA a little bit but a lot of your criticisims are valid.

[Jose FM]

stupid thread...why not admire the guys heart for not quitting like many american fighers have...
Heart doenst win you fights, it gets you respect no doubt, but he lost the fight. If you would read the points i posted i never once mention that Abraham has no heart, i mention that Miranda was robbed due to the bad work of the referee and the judges, and mention that Abraham doesnt have great technical skill thus my conclusion is that Pavlik would beat him. So stupid post.

[jecxbox]

Abraham will be a hanging pinata for Kelly Pavlik to destroy and collect all his candy.

[Toopretty]

First of all you cant make a toptal assesment of a fighter based on 1 fight. Styles make fights and Miranda was not a good stylistic matchup for Abraham. Second of all you neglect an important factor in this fight which was a broken jaw from the 5th round on and Abraham basically fighting for survival. In the first 4 rounds were he wasnt injured yet you could see that he was better than Miranda.


WTF...Miranda WON the first few rounds...lol Abraham got the 3rd ..You dont win a round fighting for 30 seconds of the last minute while the other guy is jabbing the shit out of you to the head and body LANDING. While you are in your retard shell defense. Get the fuck out of here.:rofl:rofl:nut:nut

[Toopretty]

Pavlik would probably win, he's too busy and his staminas better. But Pavliks defense is poor and Abraham is a better puncher than Taylor. We could see a devastating ko win for AA. He also has a winners mentality unlike Taylor.
But you are right in saying that Pavlik is better than AA, I just think its far more competitive than you give it credit.

Abraham by no means in any way shape or form is a better puncher then JT. Or any other top tier middleweight. He is a horrible puncher and he does not own a jab throws counter haymakers..............Ingrate

[unclepaulie]

Abraham should have been deducted at least one point for holding. I cant and will not blame any fighter for not wanting to fight in Germany. I have seen Sven Ottke lose clearly twice, Abraham lose clearly, and I thought Brian Minto beat Luan Krasniqi. Also, this fight to me just shows how easily a decent puncher can get through Abrahams defense and land. I just see no way, based on what ive seen, that Abraham could beat Pavlik.

[bigeddie27]

The contreversy of this fight is so large, that to this day, when it is brought up a shitstorm ensues. I wonder about the people who thought abraham won. And also didnt think that whole fight was a farce. Ill admit I am a huge miranda fan, but he won that fight. The ref gave too many breaks to abraham which screwed the momentum out of edison. And the low blows were not low blows. In the end, and I have said this before about this fight, Edison was the one who went on to HBO to get a chance to fight for the 'undisputed' middleweight title that taylor had and which pavlik has now. Abraham is NOT a champ, and that belt is worthless in my eyes. And to the poster who said 'well it is a win no matter how you look at it.', No it is not a win. Any real boxing fan can see that. I can admit if my fighter loses (just like edison did against pavlik), but he did not lose that fight. And it is on youtube for the whole world to see. Expect Abraham to be protected for the rest of his career. Miranda ruined him, and his promoter is to blame for not letting the fight be stopped when his jaw was broken the first time.

[Jose FM]

The contreversy of this fight is so large, that to this day, when it is brought up a shitstorm ensues. I wonder about the people who thought abraham won. And also didnt think that whole fight was a farce. Ill admit I am a huge miranda fan, but he won that fight. The ref gave too many breaks to abraham which screwed the momentum out of edison. And the low blows were not low blows. In the end, and I have said this before about this fight, Edison was the one who went on to HBO to get a chance to fight for the 'undisputed' middleweight title that taylor had and which pavlik has now. Abraham is NOT a champ, and that belt is worthless in my eyes. And to the poster who said 'well it is a win no matter how you look at it.', No it is not a win. Any real boxing fan can see that. I can admit if my fighter loses (just like edison did against pavlik), but he did not lose that fight. And it is on youtube for the whole world to see. Expect Abraham to be protected for the rest of his career. Miranda ruined him, and his promoter is to blame for not letting the fight be stopped when his jaw was broken the first time.
Well they couldt stop it cause when the ref saw the scorecards he saw Miranda would win viw TKO, and to prevent that from happening he let it continue. The thing that bloggles my mind was when Miranda was bout to finish abraham and the ref kept jumping in to protect Abraham by asking if he was ok or not? Complete BS!

[Odo]

Miranda wasnt able to stop an severerly injured opponent who had broken his jaw(twice) and who was bleeding like a shot pig throughout most rounds of their encounter losing tons of bloods.Quite the opposite it was Abraham who seemed to be the one who was more likely to stop his foe.Miranda took some very good shots in round 9.I very much doubt that Miranda would have gone more than 1 or 2 rounds against Abraham if he had been the one whose jaw was broken and who was losing as much blood as pig whose throat was cut in a slaughterhouse.
Besides Abraham had looked quite impressive against the rough Columbian up to round 4 when he broke his jaw.
A healthy Abraham would have stopped Miranda somewhere between round 5 and 8 IMO.
Miranda is tough,can take some good shots,and can bang,but he still wasnt able to beat an severely injured opponent.

[lion]

All these poster on here are obsessed with this guy Abraham and I dont know why. I dont how this guys beats Pavlik or actually even Taylor for that matter. Here are a few observations from this fight. There is no particular order to anything just things i penned down.

1. Abraham swings wildly, anyone with technical ability would left hook this guy to death. Also this guy doesnt even set anything up, you can clearly see what he wants to do, no jab, just hooks.

2. Abraham has the poor man's Winky Wright Peek-o-boo defense.

3. Abraham has no lateral movement and as flat-footed as anyone, just cause of his line Pavlik would kill this guy.

4. In the fight Miranda head-butted Abraham, but it really wasnt that big of a deal for a 2 point deduction! This is probably the biggest BS call ive ever seen, a 2 point deduction when there wasnt even a warning and did not cause a cut? Ridiculuos.

5. When Abraham was head-butted, his trainer was helping him with this mouth. Again, mad BS! And it was obvious that he wasnt hurting from the head-butt but from his mouth.

6. Although i have watched the hungarian version of the fight, you can clearly hear the referee saying that he should stop the fight due to Abrahams injury, but since it would go to the cards the referee saw that Miranda would win via TKO and thus was gonna continue the fight. More BS. I have a feeling that if the fight had been in MSG Arthur Merchante Jr. would have been telling Abraham to "suck it up" (love that guy).

7. Abraham tried to SRL his way to stealing rounds but aside from the occasional 15 sec flurries, he really didnt do much.

8. Abraham was clearly hurt in the 10th and kept trying to run, and the DUMBASS referee kept jumping in when Miranda was gonna finish him and asking if he was OK. WTFFFF!!!!!! This made me so friggin mad, obviously hes not OK, stop the fight!

9. Tenth and Twelve rounds should have been 10-8 rounds for Miranda, Abraham did nothing but run! Nothing!

10. This guy is another ABC title holder from Europe that will probably never want to face a legitimate threat like Pavlik or even Taylor, im not biased, its just pathetic.

11. The referee, the IBF, and the judges should be ashamed of themselves, the fight is a disgrace to boxing.:-(

In the end i had it 113-111 Miranda, even with the 5 points deductions for Miranda.

OK Euros, come at me!i saw that fight and totally agree with you.. he has very little chance against Pavlik, AA should try Miranda again which i think he would lose.. AA is just another paperchamp

[Lakris]

No way this overated abraham guy would cause any trouble for the Pavlik punching machine!
KO within 4 rounds. No doubt!

[freddy-wak]

Heart doenst win you fights, it gets you respect no doubt, but he lost the fight. If you would read the points i posted i never once mention that Abraham has no heart, i mention that Miranda was robbed due to the bad work of the referee and the judges, and mention that Abraham doesnt have great technical skill thus my conclusion is that Pavlik would beat him. So stupid post.

dog, miranda is lucky he didnt get dq'd, what the hell are you talking about BAD JUDGING OR REFFING :huh :huh :huh

[freddy-wak]

and in some cases, fuck yeah HEART WINS YOU FIGHTS...i bet you psysically and mentally, abraham was beaten down after that jaw fracture....but his heart kept him in there.....
and nobody is saying he's a kingpin yet, but c'mon....with ikeke,jantuah, and miranda under your belt, thats pretty fucken good for a BUM

[Jose FM]

dog, miranda is lucky he didnt get dq'd, what the hell are you talking about BAD JUDGING OR REFFING :huh :huh :huh
Yeah he could of, but it would have also been a bad call. That head butt was nothing. I just re-watched Calzaghe/Bika, and every round there was a meaningful headbutt. Miranda once in the entire fight headbutted but it was a love tap and did not warrant a 2 point deduction. While i understand the deduction for the low blows. Two of those LBs were borderline to say the least.

[Jose FM]

and in some cases, fuck yeah HEART WINS YOU FIGHTS...i bet you psysically and mentally, abraham was beaten down after that jaw fracture....but his heart kept him in there.....
and nobody is saying he's a kingpin yet, but c'mon....with ikeke,jantuah, and miranda under your belt, thats pretty fucken good for a BUM
I agree that it does, and let me go on the record by saying that Abraham has heart. It didnt mean however that he won this fight. The man has big bolas but Miranda beat him, and doesnt stand a chance against Pavlik.

[Tom_Tocca]

I agree that it does, and let me go on the record by saying that Abraham has heart. It didnt mean however that he won this fight. The man has big bolas but Miranda beat him, and doesnt stand a chance against Pavlik.

You know what you are doing atm...you are discrediting the future lagacy of Kelly Pavlik if he is going to fight AA...

...lose or win, it would mean nothing on his record...

[Jose FM]

You know what you are doing atm...you are discrediting the future lagacy of Kelly Pavlik if he is going to fight AA...

...lose or win, it would mean nothing on his record...
:lol: Nah, the reason why im saying all of this is cause AA is not gonna fight Pavlik. AA is gonna price himself out or gonna want Pavlik to fight in Germany for pennies. I can see it happening from a mile away.

[PolishPummler]

Some of you are vastly underating Abraham based on the Miranda(in which he showed tons of heart).

AA is a very solid fighter.

[Tom_Tocca]

:lol: Nah, the reason why im saying all of this is cause AA is not gonna fight Pavlik. AA is gonna price himself out or gonna want Pavlik to fight in Germany for pennies. I can see it happening from a mile away.

Have you correctly read one of my earlier posts in this thread???

I said that Abraham's biggest purse was around $650k - just imagine a fight between those two would be worth around $4,5 million - Abraham would be gracious to take home the 70-30 split in favour of Pavlik - that would be double the money he has done up to date...and 70-30 is a fair split for this fight imo...

[Jose FM]

Have you correctly read one of my earlier posts in this thread???

I said that Abraham's biggest purse was around $650k - just imagine a fight between those two would be worth around $4,5 million - Abraham would be gracious to take home the 70-30 split in favour of Pavlik - that would be double the money he has done up to date...and 70-30 is a fair split for this fight imo...
No i havent, i hope youre right. Unification is the next and only step for Pavlik and the MW division. The sooner the better.

[yesihavearm]

Jose I dont agree with you much but your spot on with this one.

Abraham is one of the WORST title holders in any division. He'll never fight outside of Germany and he'll never face a top contender since Miranda kicked the shit out of him and was victim of a hometown decision.

I dont understand where his fans have come from, as soon as he steps up (Probably never will) he'll lose, and badly.

At this point any of the top Middleweights destroy him, including light-middle and Super-Middle.

[bumdujour]

All these poster on here are obsessed with this guy Abraham and I dont know why. I dont how this guys beats Pavlik or actually even Taylor for that matter. Here are a few observations from this fight. There is no particular order to anything just things i penned down.

1. Abraham swings wildly, anyone with technical ability would left hook this guy to death. Also this guy doesnt even set anything up, you can clearly see what he wants to do, no jab, just hooks.

2. Abraham has the poor man's Winky Wright Peek-o-boo defense.

3. Abraham has no lateral movement and as flat-footed as anyone, just cause of his line Pavlik would kill this guy.

4. In the fight Miranda head-butted Abraham, but it really wasnt that big of a deal for a 2 point deduction! This is probably the biggest BS call ive ever seen, a 2 point deduction when there wasnt even a warning and did not cause a cut? Ridiculuos.

5. When Abraham was head-butted, his trainer was helping him with this mouth. Again, mad BS! And it was obvious that he wasnt hurting from the head-butt but from his mouth.

6. Although i have watched the hungarian version of the fight, you can clearly hear the referee saying that he should stop the fight due to Abrahams injury, but since it would go to the cards the referee saw that Miranda would win via TKO and thus was gonna continue the fight. More BS. I have a feeling that if the fight had been in MSG Arthur Merchante Jr. would have been telling Abraham to "suck it up" (love that guy).

7. Abraham tried to SRL his way to stealing rounds but aside from the occasional 15 sec flurries, he really didnt do much.

8. Abraham was clearly hurt in the 10th and kept trying to run, and the DUMBASS referee kept jumping in when Miranda was gonna finish him and asking if he was OK. WTFFFF!!!!!! This made me so friggin mad, obviously hes not OK, stop the fight!

9. Tenth and Twelve rounds should have been 10-8 rounds for Miranda, Abraham did nothing but run! Nothing!

10. This guy is another ABC title holder from Europe that will probably never want to face a legitimate threat like Pavlik or even Taylor, im not biased, its just pathetic.

11. The referee, the IBF, and the judges should be ashamed of themselves, the fight is a disgrace to boxing.:-(

In the end i had it 113-111 Miranda, even with the 5 points deductions for Miranda.

OK Euros, come at me!

okay some latin wigga saying columbian miranda beat abraham........yeah didnt see that coming:lol:

you only watch one fight of a guy and you know all about him:patsch

go play with ricky martin:good

[Tom_Tocca]

No i havent, i hope youre right. Unification is the next and only step for Pavlik and the MW division. The sooner the better.

The one who won't do it for that kind of money is Sturm - he has earned around %$1,4 million for some of his fights (like against Castillejo I) and this guy would demand around $2,5 million which would be around a 50-50 split - Arum would they "fuck it - you're out"...and Sturm would run around like Wright after he priced himself out of the DLH fight some years ago...

[Tom_Tocca]

Jose I dont agree with you much but your spot on with this one.

Abraham is one of the WORST title holders in any division. He'll never fight outside of Germany and he'll never face a top contender since Miranda kicked the shit out of him and was victim of a hometown decision.

I dont understand where his fans have come from, as soon as he steps up (Probably never will) he'll lose, and badly.

At this point any of the top Middleweights destroy him, including light-middle and Super-Middle.

Jose made up some points but does he think AA would lose to a guy like Spinks - if so, please tell me.

I see AA KTFO Spinks in front of St. Louis fight fans...

[yesihavearm]

Jose made up some points but does he think AA would lose to a guy like Spinks - if so, please tell me.

I see AA KTFO Spinks in front of St. Louis fight fans...

If Taylor couldnt do it why would Abraham ? Taylor would shutout Abraham if they ever fought, they definatly wont tho. Abrahams team knows he's limited, specially after Miranda owned him.

Vernon Forrest would dominate him. As would Pavlik/Taylor/Calzaghe/Kessler/Green/Lacy etc

Hell, i reckon Vargas and Mayorga could aswell.

[Jose FM]

okay some latin wigga saying columbian miranda beat abraham........yeah didnt see that coming:lol:

you only watch one fight of a guy and you know all about him:patsch

go play with ricky martin:good
A redneck white supremists saying his usual racist statements, typical. We're not in JAIL or alabama, its the world wide web, but i guess you never learned that the world is larger than your 5000 pop. town since you never made it past 4th grade and your mom is your fathers first cousin.:hi:

[Jose FM]

Jose made up some points but does he think AA would lose to a guy like Spinks - if so, please tell me.

I see AA KTFO Spinks in front of St. Louis fight fans...
You know, i can see AA beating Spinks, just cause Spinks is featherfisted, and AA is wild and agressive, i see it playing out kinda like Judah/Spinks 2, evetually one of those wild shots would catch Spinks and lay him out, but beating Spinks isnt really saying much bout AA.

[Tom_Tocca]

You know, i can see AA beating Spinks, just cause Spinks is featherfisted, and AA is wild and agressive, i see it playing out kinda like Judah/Spinks 2, evetually one of those wild shots would catch Spinks and laid him out, but beating Spinks isnt really saying much bout AA.

I know, I just want to prove the point that AA would have not that much problems with the elite at 154 like this other guy said before...though, I'm thinkin the same as you on that term...

[unitas]

A redneck white supremists saying his usual racist statements, typical. We're not in JAIL or alabama, its the world wide web, but i guess you never learned that the world is larger than your 5000 pop. town since you never made it past 4th grade and your mom is your fathers first cousin.:hi:

uuuuhhh......da wigga getting angry:| :lol: :lol:

[Boro chris]

Abraham by no means in any way shape or form is a better puncher then JT. Or any other top tier middleweight. He is a horrible puncher and he does not own a jab throws counter haymakers..............Ingrate

Why are you calling me an ingrate? I'm not offended, just mildly curious.

Actually don't bother I'm just gonna put you back on ignore again.

[joe the great]

Maybe Abraham could beat Taylor now after Taylor's whipping by Pavlik but I don't see him beating Pavlik. I think Pavlik KO's him in the eighth round.

[freddy-wak]

I agree that it does, and let me go on the record by saying that Abraham has heart. It didnt mean however that he won this fight. The man has big bolas but Miranda beat him, and doesnt stand a chance against Pavlik.

how can you say that though, pavlik simply came from behind to win via ko.....meaning, if he can get outboxed by taylor, then you best bet that ass that arthur can.....miranda is a heavy hitter also, he had abraham hurting from pain i cant even imagine and still couldnt get him out.....how the hell is pavlik gonna just come in and ko him......not saying it cant happen, but abraham will give anybody hell at 160.....anybody

[Tom_Tocca]

how can you say that though, pavlik simply came from behind to win via ko.....meaning, if he can get outboxed by taylor, then you best bet that ass that arthur can.....miranda is a heavy hitter also, he had abraham hurting from pain i cant even imagine and still couldnt get him out.....how the hell is pavlik gonna just come in and ko him......not saying it cant happen, but abraham will give anybody hell at 160.....anybody

AA should get a fan following in Mexico due to his warriors mentality - Mexicans could even adopt him as their middleweight...

Damn, I want AA to entrance a la Ricky Hatton with a sombrero on his head and Mexicans cheering for him... :yep

[freddy-wak]

AA should get a fan following in Mexico due to his warriors mentality - Mexicans could even adopt him as their middleweight...

Damn, I want AA to entrance a la Ricky Hatton with a sombrero on his head and Mexicans cheering for him... :yep

i love arthur cause of his style...his warriorism just adds on to it...same with ricky, but really, neither of them fight like the traditional mexican....but i'm sure if mexicans see that fight with miranda, they will fo sho adopt him...

[bumdujour]

AA should get a fan following in Mexico due to his warriors mentality - Mexicans could even adopt him as their middleweight...

Damn, I want AA to entrance a la Ricky Hatton with a sombrero on his head and Mexicans cheering for him... :yep

as much as i like AA, he doesnt fight like a mexican. he is a rather cautious counterpuncher.

he does have a big heart, but his general style of fighting is not very latin imo.

[Tom_Tocca]

as much as i like AA, he doesnt fight like a mexican. he is a rather cautious counterpuncher.

he does have a big heart, but his general style of fighting is not very latin imo.

Yes, you are right, but I just mean his heart.

Plus I had seen some holiday pictures on his old website where he wears a sombrero - looked pretty cool to me...

[Jose FM]

how can you say that though, pavlik simply came from behind to win via ko.....meaning, if he can get outboxed by taylor, then you best bet that ass that arthur can.....miranda is a heavy hitter also, he had abraham hurting from pain i cant even imagine and still couldnt get him out.....how the hell is pavlik gonna just come in and ko him......not saying it cant happen, but abraham will give anybody hell at 160.....anybody
No way Taylor was winning by the margins that the judges had, and even if he was, no way he kept up the pace. The diference btw Miranda and Pavlik though is that Pavlik has the finishing abilities and the straighter punches to get to AA. If this fight happens youll see what im talking about.:good

[Tom_Tocca]

No way Taylor was winning by the margins that the judges had, and even if he was, no way he kept up the pace. The diference btw Miranda and Pavlik though is that Pavlik has the finishing abilities and the straighter punches to get to AA. If this fight happens youll see what im talking about.:good

Yes, we will see how the fight unfolds...when it happens.

[bumdujour]

Yes, you are right, but I just mean his heart.

Plus I had seen some holiday pictures on his old website where he wears a sombrero - looked pretty cool to me...

Im not sure looking cool in a sombrero will do it:lol:

mexicans are not that easy to impress....

[Odo]

Jose I dont agree with you much but your spot on with this one.

Abraham is one of the WORST title holders in any division. He'll never fight outside of Germany and he'll never face a top contender since Miranda kicked the shit out of him and was victim of a hometown decision.

I dont understand where his fans have come from, as soon as he steps up (Probably never will) he'll lose, and badly.

At this point any of the top Middleweights destroy him, including light-middle and Super-Middle.


What a ridiculous and childish post!

Pavlik surely deserves respect for his great victories over Miranda and Taylor,but so does Abraham for some of his great and entertaining fights against Gevor,Miranda,Ikeke,and so on.
Bloody stupid to belittle either Pavlik or Abraham in order to enhance the other fighter's status!


As for your silly statement that Abraham is the worst title holder of all divisions (haha!you havent seen a lot of fight latelely,have you?) who only fights out of Germany( why not! he earns big bucks over there! Pavlik has never fought out of the usa either) who will never fight a top contender agains since Miranda kicked the shit out of him(mate! Miranda wasnt able to stop an severely injured opponent who had broken his jaw twice and was losing tons of bloods during the fight looking like a shot pig.Besides Miranda wouldnt have survived two rounds if he had been the one with the injuries.
A healthy Abraham would have stopped Miranda anyway,and even that totally handicapped version of Abraham was almost able to take out Miranda in round 9 of their encounter)

According to you at this point any of the top middle weights(who are the top middle weights in your opinion?) would destroy him.
A very daring statement in face of Abraham's very impressive victory over Khoren Gevor who for sure belongs among the present top 10 of the middle weight division.

""As soon as Abraham steps up ,he will lose,badly.""
Go to boxrec,and look up his fight record! Abraham has collected quite a handful of impressive scalps in his pro career so far.
Pavlik has beaten Miranda and Taylor,and rightfully stands at the top of his weight division.However,lets not forget that up to his encounter with Miranda he hadnt faced a single known name apart from limited journeymen and unknown taxi drivers whereas Abraham's record is full of known names with good reputations.Of course among Abraham's scalps is no Taylor which makes the difference.However,there is no doubt that Abraham is the nr.2 at middle weight,and I for my part wouldnt call him the underdog against Pavlik.
Well,since I like both fighters I very much hope that their encounter wont come off that soon.
I 'd prefer watching either Pavlik or Abraham take out Felix Sturm first.

Anyway! Your biased post has just revealed your great knowledge of boxing.

[marauder1999]

Abraham has been the number 1 contender for the Middleweight title since summer of '06. I think he has a great chance at beating Pavlik and it would be one hell of a fight.

#1 since 06? I think you should go back and re-look that. Besides, if he fought the likes of pavlik or taylor for that matter the guy sitting in the front row should bring his baseball glove.

Hes going to need it to catch abrahams jaw after he gets hit, those 2 wont just break it--they will make it fly through the air.

[Strike]

I have never been impressed by Abraham, he is indeed flat footed and wide open. He could be outboxed quite easily. That said Pavlik is not exactly slick is he? This would be a slug fest. I would favour Pavlik but Abraham can bang and I am not sold on Pavliks chin, so who knows? Abraham has a punchers chance but yeah I would go with Pavlik.

But the shit thing about this opening post is the usual "Euro" crap. Abraham beat Eastman who was deemed good enough to fight Hopkins and he is a top tier middle weight. Once again, because YOU as an American do not know the names or have only seen one fight do not think that means they are overprotected or crap.

It is hilarious that someone like Allen Green or Codrington can beat up US journeymen and get HYPED but if a Euro fighter is fighting similar comp in their home nation they are "protected" and a bum.:patsch

[Carlos Primera]

mate! Miranda wasnt able to stop an severely injured opponent who had broken his jaw twice and was losing tons of bloods during the fight looking like a shot pig.Besides Miranda wouldnt have survived two rounds if he had been the one with the injuries.
A healthy Abraham would have stopped Miranda anyway,and even that totally handicapped version of Abraham was almost able to take out Miranda in round 9 of their encounter
and how do you know this?? miranda was taking a brutal beating the majority of the pavlik fight, Knocked down heavily twice by pavlik in the sixth, and could have quit on the stool between round 6 and 7. he came out though and never stopped punching until going down. indeed it was a great display of bravery on arthurs part to continue, but there's no need to say miranda quits in 2 when he has shown balls in the face of adversity himself.

[Jose FM]

I have never been impressed by Abraham, he is indeed flat footed and wide open. He could be outboxed quite easily. That said Pavlik is not exactly slick is he? This would be a slug fest. I would favour Pavlik but Abraham can bang and I am not sold on Pavliks chin, so who knows? Abraham has a punchers chance but yeah I would go with Pavlik.

But the shit thing about this opening post is the usual "Euro" crap. Abraham beat Eastman who was deemed good enough to fight Hopkins and he is a top tier middle weight. Once again, because YOU as an American do not know the names or have only seen one fight do not think that means they are overprotected or crap.

It is hilarious that someone like Allen Green or Codrington can beat up US journeymen and get HYPED but if a Euro fighter is fighting similar comp in their home nation they are "protected" and a bum.:patsch
Not sold on Pavliks chin? You has taken some very serious flush shots and survived to knock his opponents out, so i mean i dunno what it takes to be sold on someones chin, your criteria seems to be unrealistic.

[Jose FM]

and how do you know this?? miranda was taking a brutal beating the majority of the pavlik fight, Knocked down heavily twice by pavlik in the sixth, and could have quit on the stool between round 6 and 7. he came out though and never stopped punching until going down. indeed it was a great display of bravery on arthurs part to continue, but there's no need to say miranda quits in 2 when he has shown balls in the face of adversity himself.
:good