What are your opinions on Willie Pastrano?

[kidargentine]

In all honesty I've never cared about the guy months ago, but lately I've been taking a liking to him, specifically watching his match with Harold Johnson. He reminds me of De la Hoya a little bit, the way he jabs...

[Sweet Pea]

Never saw any resemblance to De La Hoya. Honestly, their styles or polar opposites as far as I'm concerned. Pastrano being the slick, wily, free-flowing stylist in the same vein as Willie Pep and Ralph Dupas, with De La Hoya being the definition of the up-right, squared-up boxer-puncher.

Regardless, I think very highly of Pastrano. When I think of the best pure boxers to have fought in the LHW division, he's often the first name that springs to mind. Beautiful style, extremely elegant and pleasing to the eye.

[Boxed Ears]

Never saw any resemblance to De La Hoya. Honestly, their styles or polar opposites as far as I'm concerned. Pastrano being the slick, wily, free-flowing stylist in the same vein as Willie Pep and Ralph Dupas, with De La Hoya being the definition of the up-right, squared-up boxer-puncher.

Regardless, I think very highly of Pastrano. When I think of the best pure boxers to have fought in the LHW division, he's often the first name that springs to mind. Beautiful style, extremely elegant and pleasing to the eye.

+1 and also probably a helluva lot of fun at parties.

[My2Sense]

The thing about Pastrano is that he expended much of his prime years at HW looking for bigger matches and bigger pay. He was already in the twilight of his career when he did the "impossible" by upsetting Johnson (although personally, I always thought he was lucky to get that decision) and then holding the title through a few defenses after that. At his best he was a very slick and skilled boxer, also very tough and gutty and willing to mix it up, and showed occasional flashes of power (such as in his KO of Terry Downes).

[Boxed Ears]

The thing about Pastrano is that he expended much of his prime years at HW looking for bigger matches and bigger pay. He was already in the twilight of his career when he did the "impossible" by upsetting Johnson (although personally, I always thought he was lucky to get that decision) and then holding the title through a few defenses after that. At his best he was a very slick and skilled boxer, also very tough and gutty and willing to mix it up, and showed occasional flashes of power (such as in his KO of Terry Downes).

Take it for what you will but I saw him quoted as basically saying he didn't want to go for knockouts, didn't want to hurt anybody or be hurt and his style reflected that. Boxing, scoring, going the distance. Of course, then again, George Foreman claims he could have taken Morrison out whenever but he didn't want to ruin him. :lol:

[turpinr]

The thing about Pastrano is that he expended much of his prime years at HW looking for bigger matches and bigger pay. He was already in the twilight of his career when he did the "impossible" by upsetting Johnson (although personally, I always thought he was lucky to get that decision) and then holding the title through a few defenses after that. At his best he was a very slick and skilled boxer, also very tough and gutty and willing to mix it up, and showed occasional flashes of power (such as in his KO of Terry Downes).
thats about how i see it.:good

[red cobra]

Never saw any resemblance to De La Hoya. Honestly, their styles or polar opposites as far as I'm concerned. Pastrano being the slick, wily, free-flowing stylist in the same vein as Willie Pep and Ralph Dupas, with De La Hoya being the definition of the up-right, squared-up boxer-puncher.

Regardless, I think very highly of Pastrano. When I think of the best pure boxers to have fought in the LHW division, he's often the first name that springs to mind. Beautiful style, extremely elegant and pleasing to the eye.Pea, that's one hell of a great description of Pastrano:deal..no, there's no semblance between Pastrano and De la Hoya...Willie made no committment to the slugging, or hard punching side of his repetoire..indeed, getting set to throw hard punches would have left him open to perhaps taking a few himself, and despite having a world class chin (no head shot ever put him down) it was a prospect he religiously avoided, as it would have messed him up badly in his out of the ring career with the ladies. As Pea said, Willie was a smooth, effortless, natural boxer who could be considered a boxing "purist"..he had a beautiful, fast as lightning, stacatto left jab, and with a great pair of legs, along with his other defensive attributes, avoided much punishment in his career, and was a pleasure to watch if you loved clever, artistic defensive boxing..he was however, less than dedicated to training and lost a few times more than he should have, but he rose to the occasion in '63 to outpoint, by a razor's margin, a great boxer/technician in Harold Johnson, in one of my favorite strategic 15 round bouts ever.

[red cobra]

Pastrano's left jab was far superior to de la Hoya's..it was a thing of beauty. The saying back when he was champ was that he could "tattoo his name and address on an opponent's face"..like I said, his lack of dedication to training at times and his unlimited appetite for the opposite sex probably kept him from achieving more in his career. Pastrano was a humble, refreshingly honest guy who was quoted as saying "I just got lucky, that's all" in becoming champion..though I tend to believe that he deserved the verdict against Johnson by the very narrowist of margins. This business about favoring a champion always in a close decision, and the belief that you have to be a Joe Louis and go out and pulverize a champion to win a title is just bullshit.

[red cobra]

bump

[Duodenum]

Pastrano's left jab was far superior to de la Hoya's..it was a thing of beauty. The saying back when he was champ was that he could "tattoo his name and address on an opponent's face"..like I said, his lack of dedication to training at times and his unlimited appetite for the opposite sex probably kept him from achieving more in his career. Pastrano was a humble, refreshingly honest guy who was quoted as saying "I just got lucky, that's all" in becoming champion..though I tend to believe that he deserved the verdict against Johnson by the very narrowest of margins. This business about favoring a champion always in a close decision, and the belief that you have to be a Joe Louis and go out and pulverize a champion to win a title is just bullshit.I felt Willie earned the decision as well. He jabbed and moved, but in the process was initiating the action by getting his jabs off first (much as Young did against Foreman), while Johnson countered mainly to the body. It was a brilliant chess match between two great contrasting veteran stylists, but I believed that Pastrano deserved it more by acting where Harold was reacting. Willie worked harder for it.

Johnson was planning to challenge Liston if he had gotten past Pastrano, but Willie may actually have given Sonny a bigger headache. He had the legs, the chin, the quick jab, the experience, and Angelo Dundee in his corner to devise a plan which may have come to fruition if Cooper had managed to derail Clay.

[red cobra]

I felt Willie earned the decision as well. He jabbed and moved, but in the process was initiating the action by getting his jabs off first (much as Young did against Foreman), while Johnson countered mainly to the body. It was a brilliant chess match between two great contrasting veteran stylists, but I believed that Pastrano deserved it more by acting where Harold was reacting. Willie worked harder for it.

Johnson was planning to challenge Liston if he had gotten past Pastrano, but Willie may actually have given Sonny a bigger headache. He had the legs, the chin, the quick jab, the experience, and Angelo Dundee in his corner to devise a plan which may have come to fruition if Cooper had managed to derail Clay.
I bumped this thread just to lure you into posting, Duodenum (lol)....
Yeah, I get all rhapsodic about ol' Willie P...I agree with you, that Willie would have, or at least could have gone Eddie Machen one better, as Willie had better skills, was faster and had a better chin than Machen. Willie had a great pair of legs and was downright paranoid about getting tagged...but he had no appetite at all for the prospect of Sonny Liston, in fact, it was the Bear that caused him to choose the safer pastures of the lightheavy division.

[john garfield]

Just seeing Pastrano's name brings a smile. Used to train with him 'n his partner-in-pranks -- then Clay -- at the 5th St. Gym in Miami Beach. Drove Angelo Dundee nuts with their antics. Like gerbils let loose. Both of 'em would double-over laughin' at the mischief they created.

Though, clearly, Willie was no puncher, a first-timer at the gym would've sworn he could cave in a wall from the sound he made machine-gunning his jab at leather heavy bag. THWACK! THWACK! THWACK!

What he was really doin' was back-hand slappin' it in the sweet spot...but the sound was IMPRESSIVE.

[SLAKKA]

This books for you!
Author is C.E. Evans
Title is Willie the Wisp


[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Softcover, ISBN 1888224029
Publisher: Prestige Publications, USA, 1998
In the 1950's and 1960's when the 'Sweet Science' of boxing was a savage, brutal, rough and tumble, sock 'em, mug 'em, knock-'em out sport, along came a kid who was a magician with his hands and a ballet dancer with his feet; a master boxer, a gladiator with a polished defensive technique. His name was Willie Pastrano. Tagged the Errol Flynn of boxing, Willie's charm was as profound as his boxing ability. He ran the gamut of hard times: born into poverty, stricken with asthma as a child,... (Willie Pastrano, Angelo Dundee, Muhammad Ali, Cassius Clay, World Light Heavyweight Champion, Italian American Boxer, Boxing, Pugilism, Prizefighting.)

[red cobra]

Just seeing Pastrano's name brings a smile. Used to train with him 'n his partner-in-pranks -- then Clay -- at the 5th St. Gym in Miami Beach. Drove Angelo Dundee nuts with their antics. Like gerbils let loose. Both of 'em would double-over laughin' at the mischief they created.

Though, clearly, Willie was no puncher, a first-timer at the gym would've sworn he could cave in a wall from the sound he made machine-gunning his jab at leather heavy bag. THWACK! THWACK! THWACK!

What he was really doin' was back-hand slappin' it in the sweet spot...but the sound was IMPRESSIVE.
I think I read somewhere that Dundee said that Willie could make that heavy bag sing (or something like that)..I know Terry Downes would probably believe it. By the way, I think Willie could have gone the distance with Patterson, and would have beaten Johansson by decision..easily.

[red cobra]

This books for you!
Author is C.E. Evans
Title is Willie the Wisp


[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Softcover, ISBN 1888224029
Publisher: Prestige Publications, USA, 1998
In the 1950's and 1960's when the 'Sweet Science' of boxing was a savage, brutal, rough and tumble, sock 'em, mug 'em, knock-'em out sport, along came a kid who was a magician with his hands and a ballet dancer with his feet; a master boxer, a gladiator with a polished defensive technique. His name was Willie Pastrano. Tagged the Errol Flynn of boxing, Willie's charm was as profound as his boxing ability. He ran the gamut of hard times: born into poverty, stricken with asthma as a child,... (Willie Pastrano, Angelo Dundee, Muhammad Ali, Cassius Clay, World Light Heavyweight Champion, Italian American Boxer, Boxing, Pugilism, Prizefighting.)
Thanks for that tip!!!:thumbsup

[mckay_89]

This is maybe veering away from the subject a bit, but the brickie sub-contractor who does a lot of work for me's dad beat Willie Pastrano. His name was Chic Calderwood. Does anyone have any information on this fight?

[SLAKKA]

Not to be a party pooper but what Angelo Dundees talks about so memorably in his first book

"I Only Talk Winning" was the absolutely brilliant boxing by Joe Erskine when beating P in London years ago.

[Beau Geste]

In all honesty I've never cared about the guy months ago, but lately I've been taking a liking to him, specifically watching his match with Harold Johnson. He reminds me of De la Hoya a little bit, the way he jabs...

He was a very talented, underachiever. If he worked harder at training he would have achieved much more.

[enquirer]

Love pastrami man,TASTY.....

[mcvey]

Just seeing Pastrano's name brings a smile. Used to train with him 'n his partner-in-pranks -- then Clay -- at the 5th St. Gym in Miami Beach. Drove Angelo Dundee nuts with their antics. Like gerbils let loose. Both of 'em would double-over laughin' at the mischief they created.

Though, clearly, Willie was no puncher, a first-timer at the gym would've sworn he could cave in a wall from the sound he made machine-gunning his jab at leather heavy bag. THWACK! THWACK! THWACK!

What he was really doin' was back-hand slappin' it in the sweet spot...but the sound was IMPRESSIVE.

I read Willie was a pussy hound ,and also that he was not of Italian origin which surprised me.I wonder if its true?

[red cobra]

I read Willie was a pussy hound ,and also that he was not of Italian origin which surprised me.I wonder if its true?
Yeah, he was a pussy hound...hilarious stories about him being caught in an elevator by Angie Dundee being serviced by some young lady, and his thing for airplane stewardesses are legendary..there's no doubt about that...and of course he was Italian..he used to refer to himself as a "handsome wop"...why would that be in doubt?

[Duodenum]

Many years after he retired, he awarded a championship to the winner of an early ESPN tournament, and he was still a handsome and lively sonofagun who did not look at all his age, and entertained the ESPN audience with his interview and later the live crowd when he took the announcer's microphone to congratulate the winner. Willie was definitely somebody to spend Mardi Gras partying with.

[john garfield]

I read Willie was a pussy hound ,and also that he was not of Italian origin which surprised me.I wonder if its true?

Surprises me too, m. Always thought Willie was Creole 'n Italian...'n 100% party animal.