Most Unworthy fighter

[kg0208]

Who is the most unworthy fighter on the majority of P4P lists? Not unworthy of his ranking, but someone who shouldn't be there at all and why...

[El Bombasto]

Winky and Jeramain, though I'm a fan of both fighters

[Amsterdam]

Winky, Jermain and Bernard. Also, Rafa, Israel deserves the spot for the second win but both should not be on there, especially after a crushing KO loss.

[brooklyn1550]

Winky Wright

[the_what]

I think everyone on the Rings P4P rankings has earned their spot. Except that I dont think JMM is top 5 like most boxing writers.

[kg0208]

Wright seems to be a unanimous choice so far. I would say him and perhaps Cotto who I feel should be just on the outside looking in.

[Amsterdam]

Wright seems to be a unanimous choice so far. I would say him and perhaps Cotto who I feel should be just on the outside looking in.

Well, you said 'most unworthy'. Cotto can have a case made for him that's totally legitimate.

Wright past two years -

Close struggle win against Soliman, draw against Taylor, Quartey(obviously not prime and at 160), loss to Hopkins at 170. This is not P4P quality as of 'recent' outings.

Hopkins past two years -

Two losses to Taylor, shutout over a drained Tarver, competitive win over a bloated Wright. Again, in my opinion, at BEST, lower top 10.

I have no problems with Hopkins at the lower top 10, but many absurdly rank him TOP 3, I just laugh.:rofl

[Amsterdam]

I think everyone on the Rings P4P rankings has earned their spot. Except that I dont think JMM is top 5 like most boxing writers.

JMM top 5 is fair, the 'loss' to John is one of the biggest shams ever, JMM literally won 9 rounds clearly over John, it was atrocious. Then there the win over the THEN top 5 ranked MAB.

However, MAB is no longer P4P ranked and coming off of a loss, so he will only count so much as a win for Pac, unless it's a total blowout.

On second thought, maybe I should stay out of this thread, as I am just going to pass my opinion off as fact like usual and piss several people off.

[kg0208]

Well, you said 'most unworthy'. Cotto can have a case made for him that's totally legitimate.

Wright past two years -

Close struggle win against Soliman, draw against Taylor, Quartey(obviously not prime and at 160), loss to Hopkins at 170. This is not P4P quality as of 'recent' outings.

Hopkins past two years -

Two losses to Taylor, shutout over a drained Tarver, competitive win over a bloated Wright. Again, in my opinion, at BEST, lower top 10.

I have no problems with Hopkins at the lower top 10, but many absurdly rank him TOP 3, I just laugh.:rofl

You guys have already mentioned Hopkins and Wright enough. I mentioned Cotto because he has only been mentioned once. His beating Mosley would secure it. If he had beaten even one champion (while he held the title) I would be ok with it.

[EspadaYdaga]

Koki Kameda

[jonesjrp4p1]

winky shouldnt be in anyones top 10 but other than that its ok

[Carlos Primera]

vasquez needs to be on it. i also agree that winky has no business being in there.

[thesandman]

Well, you said 'most unworthy'. Cotto can have a case made for him that's totally legitimate.

Wright past two years -

Close struggle win against Soliman, draw against Taylor, Quartey(obviously not prime and at 160), loss to Hopkins at 170. This is not P4P quality as of 'recent' outings.

Hopkins past two years -

Two losses to Taylor, shutout over a drained Tarver, competitive win over a bloated Wright. Again, in my opinion, at BEST, lower top 10.

I have no problems with Hopkins at the lower top 10, but many absurdly rank him TOP 3, I just laugh.:rofl

Agree totally.

Hopkins top 3 is absurd. Surely P4P rankings are heavily skewed towards recent results?

[China_hand_Joe]

Hopkins, by a mile, especially given his shocking top 5 status.

[magnificentdave]

before winky and hops fought, winky was a consensus top p4p guy, then hopkins beats him and his p4p credit loses all value according to you guys, i understand where you are coming from, but you have to acknowledge that he beat a top p4p guy and he gets his p4p credit from it

[MSTR]

Cotto. Who has he actually beat?

A past his best Zab Judah that any decent welter would have put away

Otkay Urkal, who has lost twice to Vivian fucking Harris. Average.

Malignaggi. What a joke. How was this guy ever going to hurt him, he couldn't punch his way out of a paper bag.

Then some decent wins against fringe contenders like Corley, N'dou, Maussa and Torres.

If he beats Mosley, he will deserve it. But up until now he has not beaten a truely world class fighter.
You have to look at the way he has beaten his opponents though, which for the most part has been very convincing.

[MSTR]

JMM is probably a bit too high, and then the obvious in Wright, Taylor and Hop. Hop should be there but not as high IMO.

[kg0208]

You have to look at the way he has beaten his opponents though, which for the most part has been very convincing.

Even looking at that, I wouldn't say he has any more talent than the other top 15 guys or so who should be considered, and his resume simply isn't as good. I guess it depends on the criteria. But I find it funny that Judah is considered a big win for Cotto, and for PBF its about 1/2 and 1/2 with people dismissing it and calling it a good win.

[Cruiser1]

Even looking at that, I wouldn't say he has any more talent than the other top 15 guys or so who should be considered, and his resume simply isn't as good. I guess it depends on the criteria. But I find it funny that Judah is considered a big win for Cotto, and for PBF its about 1/2 and 1/2 with people dismissing it and calling it a good win.

I'm partially against the idea of Cotto being a p4p guy but the real fuel for that argument is a loss and so far he doesn't have one on his record.

[kg0208]

I'm partially against the idea of Cotto being a p4p guy but the real fuel for that argument is a loss and so far he doesn't have one on his record.

Very true....but neither does Calderon, Dawson, Williams, etc. And they appear on fewer lists. And they got their belts from champions, established ones at that. One of them is THE man in 2 different divisions.

See what I mean?

[El Bombasto]

wright gets by on reputation, he hasn't done anything significant in years, probably because he always asks for twice what he's worth

[Cruiser1]

Very true....but neither does Calderon, Dawson, Williams, etc. And they appear on fewer lists. And they got their belts from champions, established ones at that. One of them is THE man in 2 different divisions.

See what I mean?


I do but this guy doesn't :nonono

[kg0208]

I do but this guy doesn't :nonono

Well, either way, there are alot of unbeaten champions who have talent not on the P4P list, who perhaps have accomplished a little more than Cotto.

[Fab2333]

Charlie should be put on it after he knocks out dude in his first fight.:rofl :rofl P4p #1:good

[MSTR]

Even looking at that, I wouldn't say he has any more talent than the other top 15 guys or so who should be considered, and his resume simply isn't as good. I guess it depends on the criteria. But I find it funny that Judah is considered a big win for Cotto, and for PBF its about 1/2 and 1/2 with people dismissing it and calling it a good win.
Are you serious? He holds stoppage victories over Maussa, Sosa, Pinto, Bailey, Corley, Abdulaev, Torres, Branco, Malignaggi, Quintana, Urkal and now Judah. And he beat Judah, Sosa and Corley much more impressively then Mayweather did. Pretty impressive list. No great names, but all very solid wins. A few current and ex world champions in there. His opposistion has been very consistent, and he has for the most part dominated them.

[MSTR]

Very true....but neither does Calderon, Dawson, Williams, etc. And they appear on fewer lists. And they got their belts from champions, established ones at that. One of them is THE man in 2 different divisions.

See what I mean?
But your looking at their biggest wins, not their overall opposition. Dawson for instance and Williams have only a couple of big fights under their belts. Calderon is difficult to rank, due to the percieved lack of p4p talent in the lower weight classes. Still, I think he is under rated in this sense.

[kg0208]

Are you serious? He holds stoppage victories over Maussa, Sosa, Pinto, Bailey, Corley, Abdulaev, Torres, Branco, Malignaggi, Quintana, Urkal and now Judah. And he beat Judah, Sosa and Corley much more impressively then Mayweather did. Pretty impressive list. No great names, but all very solid wins. A few current and ex world champions in there. His opposistion has been very consistent, and he has for the most part dominated them.

I'm not kidding in the slightest. Judah is the best win of the bunch. Torres and Malignaggi are champions much like David Diaz. They are beltholders. They aren't anywhere near the real champions of their divisions. Others were simply prospects. Branco, Bailey, Pinto...these are no better than the wins PBF gets blasted for. Why are they quality wins for Cotto and not PBF?

Hatton barely makes top 10 lists and he has beaten KT and Castillo. Cotto has consistant competition, but not really good competition. Above average yes, but not great by any means. Mosley is his first elite class fighter, and Mosley is 35 now. And Cotto has won both his titles while they were vacant.

I am not badmouthing the guy, but I don't see him being top 10 p4p yet, not unless he beats Mosley.

[thesandman]

wright gets by on reputation, he hasn't done anything significant in years, probably because he always asks for twice what he's worth

:good

[kg0208]

But your looking at their biggest wins, not their overall opposition. Dawson for instance and Williams have only a couple of big fights under their belts. Calderon is difficult to rank, due to the percieved lack of p4p talent in the lower weight classes. Still, I think he is under rated in this sense.
I am looking at more than records. Many of those fighters you named off were mere prospects. If PBF had fought the same level, Pacman, whatever, they wouldn't get near the credit Cotto gets for fighting them.

Roy Jones fought a higher level of opposition and they were called bums.

Kessler has beaten actual champions and is not rated.

[Zakman]

Taylor, if he's still there after Pavlik starched him. He shouldn't have even been there in the first place off those gift decisions against Hopkins and Wright.

[Fab2333]

I am looking at more than records. Many of those fighters you named off were mere prospects. If PBF had fought the same level, Pacman, whatever, they wouldn't get near the credit Cotto gets for fighting them.

Roy Jones fought a higher level of opposition and they were called bums.

Kessler has beaten actual champions and is not rated.

very true KG

[MSTR]

I am looking at more than records. Many of those fighters you named off were mere prospects. If PBF had fought the same level, Pacman, whatever, they wouldn't get near the credit Cotto gets for fighting them.

Roy Jones fought a higher level of opposition and they were called bums.

Kessler has beaten actual champions and is not rated.
Kessler beat Beyer and Siaca. I would take half of the guys on Cottos record over those two. The fact that they were the current champions means very little in this instance.

[MSTR]

I am looking at more than records. Many of those fighters you named off were mere prospects. If PBF had fought the same level, Pacman, whatever, they wouldn't get near the credit Cotto gets for fighting them.

Roy Jones fought a higher level of opposition and they were called bums.

Kessler has beaten actual champions and is not rated.
BTW, Pac and PBF wouldn't get credit because they are the p4p no1 and 2 in the sport. JC is rated higher by many, but is his opposition really any better? Cotto faced these guys, and destroyed them. Thats what is impressive. And Mayweather fought 3 of these opponents, and was not as impressive as Cotto was.

[kg0208]

Kessler beat Beyer and Siaca. I would take half of the guys on Cottos record over those two. The fact that they were the current champions means very little in this instance.

Well if thats how you feel, then thats who you feel. I don't think his resume is all that great, and at some point, to be on my P4P list, you have to have beaten a great fighter, or at least a champion in your division.

[kg0208]

BTW, Pac and PBF wouldn't get credit because they are the p4p no1 and 2 in the sport. JC is rated higher by many, but is his opposition really any better? Cotto faced these guys, and destroyed them. Thats what is impressive. And Mayweather fought 3 of these opponents, and was not as impressive as Cotto was.

JC has been champion much longer and beaten fighter of the same caliber Cotto has. He also beat Eubank and Lacy. Cotto doesn't have that.

Pacman and PBF shouldn't be held to a different standard. They are all held to the same standard for me. Good competition is good competition. And PBF beat each of those guys decisively. He is not a KO artist, so Cotto will always LOOK more impressive, just as Hearns looked more impressive than Leonard.

[MSTR]

Well if thats how you feel, then thats who you feel. I don't think his resume is all that great, and at some point, to be on my P4P list, you have to have beaten a great fighter, or at least a champion in your division.
Fair enough, but I think convincing victories over good oppoents over a longer period of time count for more then say 1 big victory and 1 decent victory which is what guys like Williams and Dawson have claim to at the moment. If you base your rankings simply on 1 fight it could just be a bad style match up. Beating the actual champion IMO means little if the champion is really not that good, which is the case for Beyer, Siaca, Gatti (Mayweather) ECT.... The belts mean very little to me, I focus on who is holding them.

[MSTR]

JC has been champion much longer and beaten fighter of the same caliber Cotto has. He also beat Eubank and Lacy. Cotto doesn't have that.

Pacman and PBF shouldn't be held to a different standard. They are all held to the same standard for me. Good competition is good competition. And PBF beat each of those guys decisively. He is not a KO artist, so Cotto will always LOOK more impressive, just as Hearns looked more impressive than Leonard.
Cotto looked more impressive against Sosa and Judah, regardless of the way it finished. Corley is debatable, but apart from getting rocked I would say he did.

[MSTR]

Getting off topic here anyway. I don't think Cotto is top p4p material either, but I would probably find a spot for him at number 10. Still, I haven't made my full list yet, so I will have to see how it pans out, and who gets moved around. At number 10 on the rings ratings though, I wouldn't say Cotto is undeserving of his placement. Debatable yes but not undeserving.

[kg0208]

Cotto looked more impressive against Sosa and Judah, regardless of the way it finished. Corley is debatable, but apart from getting rocked I would say he did.

I have never felt that Cotto looked better against Judah. I honestly feel that Judah was on his way to being stopped by PBF or was going to lose 9-3 UD. The low blow and melee gave Judah more rounds and broke the flow.

Cotto did beat Sosa easier. Corley is debatable.

[dodong]

before winky and hops fought, winky was a consensus top p4p guy, then hopkins beats him and his p4p credit loses all value according to you guys, i understand where you are coming from, but you have to acknowledge that he beat a top p4p guy and he gets his p4p credit from it

:good
I know he's old, but the man has never been dominated and always fought top competition. Most unworthy???... Come on, look at the list again.

[Stinky gloves]

Currently Wright, hands down

[Morrissey]

Wright and Hopkins at top 5.

JMM at top 3

[David UK]

Wright, Hopkins, Taylor. I've been saying these fighters are overrated for a while now, and finally the penny seems to be dropping with some posters!! It's no coincedence that as soon as one of them steps out of their cosy little cartel, he gets KTFO!!

[PH|LLA]

Hopkins past two years -

Two losses to Taylor, shutout over a drained Tarver, competitive win over a bloated Wright. Again, in my opinion, at BEST, lower top 10.
lol i don't think you can spin it any more than you just did.

let me try

A weight drained Hopkins was flagrantly robbed twice gainst a younger undefeated fighter who went on to succesfully defend his undisputed title against 3 of the best fighters in the game

Then Hopkins moved up 15 lbs to DESTROY the lightheavyweight king

Then he won easily over a top5 pound for pounder in Wright

hmmm

nope, you still spinned it more

and the fact is that even through all your hate you still have him in the top10 p4p. His name doesn't belong in this thread, which asks who is unworthy of a top10 p4p spot.

Who is the most unworthy fighter on the majority of P4P lists? Not unworthy of his ranking, but someone who shouldn't be there at all and why...

I don't know what Hopkins did to you but your hate is sad

If you have him in the top10, then he could murder someone and that guy's father would still have him there.

[Vantage_West]

winky shouldnt be in anyones top 10 but other than that its oki have no problem as winky as p4p top 10 it's only that he has just lost and it's unfair to keep him in the top 10 for that...thats all.