What if Muhammad Ali had kept his weight down..?

[Stevie G]

In Ali's best victories of the 70's,the second fights with Frazier and Norton,and the Foreman fight,he was in top shape. For the first two fights,his weight was 212 lbs. In Zaire he was 216/17 lbs. After that,though he would weigh around 222-225. This coincided with a drop in his performance levels. I wonder. If he'd kept his weight down to it's pre '75 level,would he have stopped Frazier quicker in Manila,and forced a bit more daylight between himself and Norton one year later. Of course these would always have been tough fights.

[Stevie G]

By the way,I have taken into account Ali's increasing age. Also,the increasing amount of ring wars,but I still think that if he'd watched his weight,he'd have kept the years at bay for a little bit longer.

[clark]

The age is not a factor with Ali, but definitely the ring wars and less motivation.

[enquirer]

If Ali had kept his weight down he would be lighter,FACT...
His legend wouldnt be as BIG...

[Stevie G]

If Ali had kept his weight down he would be lighter,FACT...
His legend wouldnt be as BIG...
No denying THAT :good

[The Funny Man 7]

If Ali had stayed in the 213-217 range longer and had avoided ballooning between fights, it would have improved his performance long term.

[Russell]

Ali always seem nice and hydrated sans the idiotic Holmes debacle.

Cutting weight late into his career, which probably would have partly been water weight if only partly, might have resulted in him becoming damaged faster.

[ThinBlack]

He may have lasted longer.And he needed to lay off the ladies too.

[Bokaj]

If he'd kept his weight down to it's pre '75 level,would he have stopped Frazier quicker in Manila

Don't think so. He was too old to try and dance for 15 anymore, so he did the right thing: lifted weights and bulked up so he would be more effective slugging it out with Frazier.

I actually wonder if he did the right thing getting down as low as 212 when 32. That was the ideal weight for him at 25, but not necissarily at 32. I think he looked really good at about 217-218, which he was in the rematches with Quarry and Chuvalo and the first fight with Bugner.

[groove]

the peak ali that fought williams & terrell could dance 15 rounds but then he was banned for 4 years. no comeback person could get that light of feet back (but confidence was always there!). look at all the fighters who have tried to comeback - uk recent ones prince naseem & now hatten (he was no dancer) but massive output - once you've had a big break it's harder to come back than one thinks it is as they found out. well u can comeback but nothing compared to what u were!

ali was different cuz he came back in 70 but it took him another 3 years to get somewhere near his best e.g. norton 2, frazier 2, foreman - that's 3 years of constant fights to get back to top level e.g. reflexes - they don't work very well after a big break unless you start the whole constant fighting process again.

young ali trained everyday from the age of 12 to 25 - no break. then 4 years out. hmmm....cus d'mato knew the score. same thing happened to tyson after jail, big break before dempsey v tunney 1, louis comeback etc. they're peak has gone unfortunately.

ali peak 66/67, tyson peak 87/88, dempsey peak 18/19

[tommygun711]

are we forgetting that Ali had parkinsions syndrome anyways
i think that's what really prevented him from fighting at a very old age like foreman and holyfield.
He would've been succesful if he stayed in shape. If only every boxer had Holyfield's conditioning.
But in my opinion it wouldnt matter even if he had his weight down. Parkinsons syndrome destroyed his whole performance around the end of his career.

[Stevie G]

Don't think so. He was too old to try and dance for 15 anymore, so he did the right thing: lifted weights and bulked up so he would be more effective slugging it out with Frazier.

I actually wonder if he did the right thing getting down as low as 212 when 32. That was the ideal weight for him at 25, but not necissarily at 32. I think he looked really good at about 217-218, which he was in the rematches with Quarry and Chuvalo and the first fight with Bugner.
He was about 217 for the Foreman fight too.

[Stevie G]

are we forgetting that Ali had parkinsions syndrome anyways
i think that's what really prevented him from fighting at a very old age like foreman and holyfield.
He would've been succesful if he stayed in shape. If only every boxer had Holyfield's conditioning.
But in my opinion it wouldnt matter even if he had his weight down. Parkinsons syndrome destroyed his whole performance around the end of his career.
Very good point. If it had n't have been for his parkinson's,I could see him organising and taking part in veteran's contests in his early 40's.

[tommygun711]

Very good point. If it had n't have been for his parkinson's,I could see him organising and taking part in veteran's contests in his early 40's.
But wouldn't he be very young in the 40's.... But if it weren't for Parkinsons Syndrome, I think he would've fought into the mid 80s. An old Ali, without parkinsons, may have been able to fight Tyson.

[Bokaj]

He was about 217 for the Foreman fight too.

Yeah, at the weigh-in. But he said himself in an interview afterwards that he came in at 213, and Frazier also commented at ringside that Ali looked a couple of lbs lighter than his weight at the weigh-in.

Perhaps he had just had a meal and drunk water before the weigh-in. He had no reason to really watch his weight before it. It's pretty normal to fluctuate a couple of lbs on a day-to-day basis, and that might have been the case here.

[Duodenum]

Yeah, at the weigh-in. But he said himself in an interview afterward that he came in at 213, and Frazier also commented at ringside that Ali looked a couple of lbs lighter than his weight at the weigh-in.

Perhaps he had just had a meal and drunk water before the weigh-in. He had no reason to really watch his weight before it. It's pretty normal to fluctuate a couple of lbs on a day-to-day basis, and that might have been the case here.He was also said to have somehow done this prior to the second Norton fight. The commentators said his stomach seemed flatter than it was at the weigh in. He exerted his legs tremendously in the second Norton fight, and perhaps only the rematch with Spinks is comparable in leg work during his second career.

I don't know what to think of what might have happened if he kept his appetite in check. It could be more important that he resorted to rope a doping and punishment absorption when he could have been better off trying to maintain the muscular endurance his legs required to consistently evade punishment and keep his fights away from the ropes. He trained properly for the Spinks rematch, and was able to do this, leading me to wonder if he should have done this all along. (Kinshasa had a soft ring surface tiring to the legs, so he adapted as he had to in the situation. Unfortunately, he kept returning to that debilitating well after his success in Africa.)

[ajaybastiman]

ali as a heavy wieght ruined him

[prime]

Don't think so. He was too old to try and dance for 15 anymore, so he did the right thing: lifted weights and bulked up so he would be more effective slugging it out with Frazier.

Whoa!

This is an extraordinary claim, as it is pretty much well-known that Ali's training routine was old-school and weights were certainly not a part thereof.

Kindly substantiate?

[Stevie G]

Whoa!

This is an extraordinary claim, as it is pretty much well-known that Ali's training routine was old-school and weights were certainly not a part thereof.

Kindly substantiate?
Good point ! Ali always used to say that weight training was the worst thing that a boxer could do in preparing for a fight.

[Bokaj]

Whoa!

This is an extraordinary claim, as it is pretty much well-known that Ali's training routine was old-school and weights were certainly not a part thereof.

Kindly substantiate?

Ali wrote about it in his auto-biography. He said the weight-lifting was the reason behind him not moving more. I no longer have a copy of the book, but for those who do it should be right near the end.

[Bokaj]

Good point ! Ali always used to say that weight training was the worst thing that a boxer could do in preparing for a fight.

Appparently it was Sadler's idea. Ali brought him to his corner for this fight.

[prime]

Ali wrote about it in his auto-biography. He said the weight-lifting was the reason behind him not moving more. I no longer have a copy of the book, but for those who do it should be right near the end.

I'll certainly take your word for it. Seems this book may have some interesting tidbits.

In hindsight, Ali does look weight-trained heavy. This approach was ultimately successful -as Ali hit harder and was able to absorb torrid punishment- but it placed him on a road to the gates of hell.

[Bokaj]

I'll certainly take your word for it. Seems this book may have some interesting tidbits.

In hindsight, Ali does look weight-trained heavy. This approach was ultimately successful -as Ali hit harder and was able to absorb torrid punishment- but it placed him on a road to the gates of hell.

Yeah, it was no way he was going to dance for 15 rds at that point. Especially in the humid heat of Manilla. To build himself up for a brawl was probably the only way to succeed. No one thought Frazier had so much left, though.

[wordisbond]

But wouldn't he be very young in the 40's.... But if it weren't for Parkinsons Syndrome, I think he would've fought into the mid 80s. An old Ali, without parkinsons, may have been able to fight Tyson.

Fight Tyson? You must be outta your mind kid.

[Jorodz]

interesting thought. ali seemed the kind to be able to let weight build up while fighting guys like al lewis then shed it for frazier 2. it certainly affected his performances but i just have the nagging feeling that past foreman, he had jumped the shark of his second career and was going downhill, slowly but surely

[Stevie G]

interesting thought. ali seemed the kind to be able to let weight build up while fighting guys like al lewis then shed it for frazier 2. it certainly affected his performances but i just have the nagging feeling that past foreman, he had jumped the shark of his second career and was going downhill, slowly but surely
True. As I've said on several threads,Manila should have been Muhammad's final encore.