Top 10 Aussie P4P

[Dekkers]

I'm curious about who you guys think are the best in boxing at the moment, there aren't any yanks staring over your shoulder going "where's Wright?" Or "what the hell is Pac doing at number one?!" Or "Why is that bum Calslappy so high?"

So feel free to be as biased as you want, and use whatever criteria you want (e.g, head to head more important than resume, etc, whatever you want) with your lists.

Here's mine...

1. Mayweather
2. Pacquiao
3. Calzaghe
4. R Maquez
5. Vasquez
6. JM Marquez
7. Hatton
8. Cotto
9. Hopkins
10. Mijares

[Kegsy]

My World Pound4Pound List

1. Floyd Mayweather
2. Manny Pacquaio
3. Israel Vazquez
4. Bernard Hopkins
5. Rafael Marquez
6. Juan Manuel Marquez
7. Joe Calzaghe
8. Miguel Cotto
9. Ricky Hatton
10. Ivan Calderon

[BoppaZoo]

Heres Mine

P4P
1. Pacquiao
2. Mayweather
3. Vazquez
4. Calzaghe
5. Hopkins
6. R.Marquez
7. Hatton
8. JM.Marquez
9. Cotto
10. Mijares

There could be cases made for
Taylor
Kessler
Mosley
and
Juan Diaz

[jimmy1991]

i would ave to go
1. mayweather
2. Pac man
3. hopkins
4. Vazquez
5. cotto
6. hatton
7. JM.Marquez
8. R.Marquez
9. juan daiz
10. pavlik

[Kegsy]

Juan Diaz must be close to borderline top 10 p4p based on his last few displays.
I reckon 1 more win against a Casamayor, David Diaz or Katsidis gets him there no doubt.

[MSTR]

I can't understand how people could even think about having Mijares in their ten, yet alone over guys like Diaz. Even before the Julio bout, he still had wins over better fighters then Mijares, who really only has the one victory of note, and a string of wins against bums in Mexico. He had beaten Cotto, Freitas, Dorcy, Sims and Irwin. Overall better and more proven competition then what Mijares has faced. Calderon gets under rated by most, and considering his longevity on top within the division deserves a spot IMO. Hop is rated to high by some here, as is Vasquez without doubt.

[MSTR]

How do people have Hatton so low on the p4p scale anyway? He has beaten Tszyu, unified against Mausaa, claimed a title against Collazo at 147, and then went back down to beat Urango, another world champion. In his next bout he destoryed a legend in Castillo. Can someone please explain to me how Vazquez is at number 3, yet hatton at number 9 in some lists here?

[kel]

How do people have Hatton so low on the p4p scale anyway? He has beaten Tszyu, unified against Mausaa, claimed a title against Collazo at 147, and then went back down to beat Urango, another world champion. In his next bout he destoryed a legend in Castillo. Can someone please explain to me how Vazquez is at number 3, yet hatton at number 9 in some lists here?

I know mate :patsch the mind boggles

Hatton top 5 easy at the moment

and Top 2 if he beats Mayweather Dec 8

[Marcus]

How do people have Hatton so low on the p4p scale anyway? He has beaten Tszyu, unified against Mausaa, claimed a title against Collazo at 147, and then went back down to beat Urango, another world champion. In his next bout he destoryed a legend in Castillo. Can someone please explain to me how Vazquez is at number 3, yet hatton at number 9 in some lists here?

Vazquez' last 8 fights have all been world title fights, he only lost of those was to Marquez, he then came back to KO him in 6.

The last 8 fighters he has faced have had a combine record of 243w-20l

While i am very bias i think he rates just ahead of Hatton p4p.

[MSTR]

Vazquez' last 8 fights have all been world title fights, he only lost of those was to Marquez, he then came back to KO him in 6.

The last 8 fighters he has faced have had a combine record of 243w-20l

While i am very bias i think he rates just ahead of Hatton p4p.
Joe Calzaghe's last 20 fights have all been world title fight victories. I take it that means he should therefore be p4p no.1? Really, Vasquez has larios, Ghonzalez and Marquez. Also suffering a stoppage defeat in his last fight. Hatton's resume is superior, and he is undefeated. His best opponents he has defeated by stoppage in great fashion.

[Marcus]

Joe Calzaghe's last 20 fights have all been world title fight victories. I take it that means he should therefore be p4p no.1? Really, Vasquez has larios, Ghonzalez and Marquez. Also suffering a stoppage defeat in his last fight. Hatton's resume is superior, and he is undefeated. His best opponents he has defeated by stoppage in great fashion.

If he beat Collazzo well id agree, but most think he lost that fight and looked pretty hurt in the last round.

Vazquez has also beat his best opponents by stoppage.

[Sai]

If people dont stop overrating fucking BHop im going to go on a murderous rampage. The trenchcoat and the UZi and fucking everything.

Either that or Im going to get a 95 year old midget. Feed it loads of pies to get it up to about 230 lbs then challenge it for the ring heavyweight belt and claim that I'm the best heavyweight in the world.

The ridiculous cycle of past it American fighters fighting their past it American mates for loads of money and "legacy" for the ill informed has to stop.

[MSTR]

If he beat Collazzo well id agree, but most think he lost that fight and looked pretty hurt in the last round.

Vazquez has also beat his best opponents by stoppage.
Vasquez has also lost to both Marquez and Larios also. What were your score cards against Collazo? Define most? Hatton definitely won it, the biggest contraversy was that Collazo was an unknown, and the boxing media were expecting Hatton to destroy him. Turns out he was a much better fighter then they expected. Castillo and Tszyu are bigger names then anyone on Vasquez's resume, and Hatton's last fight was an impressive stoppage victory also.

[MSTR]

If people dont stop overrating fucking BHop im going to go on a murderous rampage. The trenchcoat and the UZi and fucking everything.

Either that or Im going to get a 95 year old midget. Feed it loads of pies to get it up to about 230 lbs then challenge it for the ring heavyweight belt and claim that I'm the best heavyweight in the world.

The ridiculous cycle of past it American fighters fighting their past it American mates for loads of money and "legacy" for the ill informed has to stop.
Some of the Rings ratings are just flat out ridiculous. Chad Dawson the number 5 Light Heavy... Juan Marquez the number 3 p4p? What for? Losing to John and narrowly beating and old Barerra? Winky Wright is the number 5 p4p, yet isn't even the best middleweight in the world (Pavlik according to their rankings), and coming off a loss to BHop, and a draw with Taylor. Some of it is so inconsistent.

[Sai]

Its fucking bullshit isnt it.

What also really irks me is that people misunderstand what P4P means. It is saying "If everyone in the world weighed exactly the same, who would be the best boxer". Not "Who has the best resume" They are totally different things.

If you are the worlds best boxer and then take 5 fights in a month against Japanese schoolgirls, your recent competition might have been shit, but you are still the worlds best boxer. Having a good resume basically just makes it easier to justify your choices of P4P ability.

This is why it is ridiculous that people can place Calzaghe outside of the top 3 just because some of his competition has been a bit iffy. This is also why it is ridiculous for people to include people who have losses in their own weight class against guys who are still active and near to the level they were when they beat them.

[MSTR]

Heres Mine

P4P
1. Pacquiao
2. Mayweather
3. Vazquez
4. Calzaghe
5. Hopkins
6. R.Marquez
7. Hatton
8. JM.Marquez
9. Cotto
10. Mijares

There could be cases made for
Taylor
Kessler
Mosley
and
Juan Diaz
How does Pac get number 1 spot over Floyd? That doesn't make any sense. He lost to Morales, and then beat him in the rematch coming off a woeful loss to Raheem, in which he showed definite signs of aging as a fighter. He then beat Larios, in a fashion that was less then impressive, and beat an old Barerra in far less convincing fashion then the first time they fought. Floyd has been unifying belts, getting shut out decisions and moving up multiple division in a short space of time to make the big fights, like against Oscar.

[MSTR]

Its fucking bullshit isnt it.

What also really irks me is that people misunderstand what P4P means. It is saying "If everyone in the world weighed exactly the same, who would be the best boxer". Not "Who has the best resume" They are totally different things.

If you are the worlds best boxer and then take 5 fights in a month against Japanese schoolgirls, your recent competition might have been shit, but you are still the worlds best boxer. Having a good resume basically just makes it easier to justify your choices of P4P ability.

This is why it is ridiculous that people can place Calzaghe outside of the top 3 just because some of his competition has been a bit iffy. This is also why it is ridiculous for people to include people who have losses in their own weight class against guys who are still active and near to the level they were when they beat them.
Great post. Good to see someone who can actually use their own analytical ability and not just rely on the dubious boxing media. I also like to judge on ability, whilst still making both resume and respective performance a large factor also. In doing so, would definitely include Dawson, Kessler and Diaz into my 10 regardless of popular belief. Calzaghe should be higher also as you said, although his sometimes mediocre performances against lessor opponents are his downfall.

[Marcus]

Vasquez has also lost to both Marquez and Larios also. What were your score cards against Collazo? Define most? Hatton definitely won it, the biggest contraversy was that Collazo was an unknown, and the boxing media were expecting Hatton to destroy him. Turns out he was a much better fighter then they expected. Castillo and Tszyu are bigger names then anyone on Vasquez's resume, and Hatton's last fight was an impressive stoppage victory also.

But just because you have a loss shouldnt make a dif when judging p4p, because you could be fighting p4p #1.

Most as in more than half :good . Hatton didnt definitely win it mate because most:hey people thought it was a very close fight that either fighter could have been given the win on points.

Vazquez' last fight was also a impressive stoppage victory, beating a current top 20 p4p fighter. Where Castillo only just beat a b level fighter before the Hatton fight.

Look mate, we dont agree much but we both are not goin to concede...unless you think im right now :yep

Vazquez KO Cotto/Jaun Diaz/Hatton 1 :nut

[MSTR]

But just because you have a loss shouldnt make a dif when judging p4p, because you could be fighting p4p #1.

Most as in more than half :good . Hatton didnt definitely win it mate because most:hey people thought it was a very close fight that either fighter could have been given the win on points.

Vazquez' last fight was also a impressive stoppage victory, beating a current top 20 p4p fighter. Where Castillo only just beat a b level fighter before the Hatton fight.

Look mate, we dont agree much but we both are not goin to concede...unless you think im right now :yep

Vazquez KO Cotto/Jaun Diaz/Hatton 1 :nut
I agree with you on one thing. That I do not concede that you are right.

[MSTR]

But just because you have a loss shouldnt make a dif when judging p4p, because you could be fighting p4p #1.

Most as in more than half :good . Hatton didnt definitely win it mate because most:hey people thought it was a very close fight that either fighter could have been given the win on points.

Vazquez' last fight was also a impressive stoppage victory, beating a current top 20 p4p fighter. Where Castillo only just beat a b level fighter before the Hatton fight.

Look mate, we dont agree much but we both are not goin to concede...unless you think im right now :yep

Vazquez KO Cotto/Jaun Diaz/Hatton 1 :nut
BTW, do a poll in the general to clarify, but a very large percentage had Hatton winning, similar to Oscar v Floyd. Castillo before the Hatton fight, regardless of his average performance before hand was still p4p top 20 no doubt. Castillo is a future HOF, and a great fighter.

[Marcus]

I agree with you on one thing. That I do not concede that you are right.

Thats a start.

Look mate, im a nice guy, i wont even give u a hard time when Sugar Shane smashes the living shit outta Cotto. :D :lol: :rofl :good

[Marcus]

BTW, do a poll in the general to clarify, but a very large percentage had Hatton winning, similar to Oscar v Floyd. Castillo before the Hatton fight, regardless of his average performance before hand was still p4p top 20 no doubt. Castillo is a future HOF, and a great fighter.

Thats not the point we are trying to find.

The point we were talkin about was Vazquez above Hatton in p4p. No point doin a poll, Vazquez would win by a mile because they (general forum) dont give Hatton much credit so it would really help us. How about we check the Ring ranking. Oh there you go Vazquez wins.

[MSTR]

Thats not the point we are trying to find.

The point we were talkin about was Vazquez above Hatton in p4p. No point doin a poll, Vazquez would win by a mile because they (general forum) dont give Hatton much credit so it would really help us. How about we check the Ring ranking. Oh there you go Vazquez wins.
But i don't agree at all with the Ring rating system. IMO it is quite biased, and their assesment criteria is all wrong. What I am arguing is the criteria you have used, and trying to find a reason as to why you have him placed higher. You said most people thought Collazo was the winner, so I offered to do a poll. I think you would be quite suprised at the result. You said beating a top 20 p4p opponent by stoppage, when Castillo was a top 20 guy, with recent defeats of guys like Casamayor, Diaz and Corrales. Kostya Tszyu was a top 3-4 p4p fighter at the time Hatton beat him by stoppage also. Maussa, Collazo and Urango were all world champions, not just guys CHALLENGING for the belt. Thats the difference IMO.

[Marcus]

If you do a poll that would be cool, but i cant, dont know how to do them sorry, havent worked it out yet.

[Lampley]

For me, PfP works entirely differently from Divisional rankings. Within a division, when guys theoretically are fighting for the same title, I value resume much more heavily.

But for PfP, I'm thinking only of where a fighter is at that given point in his career. I don't factor resume at all per se. That's why I might rank one fighter PfP but beneath a non-PfP fighter within his own division.

All that said. ...

1) Floyd Mayweather
2) Chad Dawson
3) Joe Calzaghe
4) Manny Pacquiao
5) Israel Vazquez
6) Ivan Calderon
7) Miguel Cotto
8. Ricky Hatton
9) Juan Diaz
10) Juan Manuel Marquez

[Marcus]

Good list mate, but gee a lot of people are upping Dawson. Yeah iv seen him, he is good, but p4p #2 already is a little early IMO.

[Lampley]

Good list mate, but gee a lot of people are upping Dawson. Yeah iv seen him, he is good, but p4p #2 already is a little early IMO.
Ha ha. I know. It's a leap of faith based on eyeball only, and the fact that he satisfied the heart question when he picked himself up off the mat against Adamek and kicked back hard.

But if I think he can go down to 168 and defeat both Calzaghe and Kessler, plus defeat everyone (most definitely including Hopkins) at 175, I can't very well place him beneath those guys.

[MSTR]

For me, PfP works entirely differently from Divisional rankings. Within a division, when guys theoretically are fighting for the same title, I value resume much more heavily.

But for PfP, I'm thinking only of where a fighter is at that given point in his career. I don't factor resume at all per se. That's why I might rank one fighter PfP but beneath a non-PfP fighter within his own division.

All that said. ...

1) Floyd Mayweather
2) Chad Dawson
3) Joe Calzaghe
4) Manny Pacquiao
5) Israel Vazquez
6) Ivan Calderon
7) Miguel Cotto
8. Ricky Hatton
9) Juan Diaz
10) Juan Manuel Marquez
Your ratings are good, mine would probably differ slightly but you are accurate by your personal opinion and method of scoring p4p which is the important thing. The point I was trying to make, was over criteria. People who put Hopkins up high do so on resume, but put Hatton down low on percieved ability, when on resume he should be higher. IMO the consistency just is not there. That is what the biggest problem with the Ring's ratings are IMO, the fact that it is so damn inconsistent. I wanted some people who put their ratings down to commit to what their criteria was, as I believe a lot of people just run off popular belief as pushed out through the boxing media. Glad to see Dawson so high in your ratings definitely agree. Joe also is another good fighter, and deserving of his spot. Manny is overated by most, so I agree with you there also. I personally think that Cotto is more talented then Vasquez, but obviously it all comes down to personal preference.

[Marcus]

Ha ha. I know. It's a leap of faith based on eyeball only, and the fact that he satisfied the heart question when he picked himself up off the mat against Adamek and kicked back hard.

But if I think he can go down to 168 and defeat both Calzaghe and Kessler, plus defeat everyone (most definitely including Hopkins) at 175, I can't very well place him beneath those guys.

I heard him say he might go down to 168. Man he would be even harder to beat then.

With a bit of luck to get the fight, he can knock the good eye out of Mundine shit filled head.

[MSTR]

I heard him say he might go down to 168. Man he would be even harder to beat then.

With a bit of luck to get the fight, he can knock the good eye out of Mundine shit filled head.
hahaha... EelsRule would be heartbroken.

[BoppaZoo]

How does Pac get number 1 spot over Floyd? That doesn't make any sense. He lost to Morales, and then beat him in the rematch coming off a woeful loss to Raheem, in which he showed definite signs of aging as a fighter. He then beat Larios, in a fashion that was less then impressive, and beat an old Barerra in far less convincing fashion then the first time they fought. Floyd has been unifying belts, getting shut out decisions and moving up multiple division in a short space of time to make the big fights, like against Oscar.Mine has since been updated now Juan Diaz goes to 9 and Cotto slips to the ten spot while Mijares goes out.

Also why have Pacquiao at 1 why its simple.

He brings more excitement as the number 1 P4P than Mayweather ever will. Plus i feel beating Gatti after he was done also beating Judah and Baldomir and then beating Dela Hoya while Oscar hadnt won a fight in like forever just is no where near as good as beating Morales twice,Larios and Solis aswell as Barerra.

Its that simple really. Plus Pacquiao has won titles across the boards just as PBF has done but i feel personally Pacquaio has won more convincingly aswell as beaten 2 future Hall of Famers. While PBF has taken some easy options of late.

Dont worry though my ten will change again if PBF beats Hatton.

[Lampley]

Your ratings are good, mine would probably differ slightly but you are accurate by your personal opinion and method of scoring p4p which is the important thing. The point I was trying to make, was over criteria. People who put Hopkins up high do so on resume, but put Hatton down low on percieved ability, when on resume he should be higher. IMO the consistency just is not there. That is what the biggest problem with the Ring's ratings are IMO, the fact that it is so damn inconsistent. I wanted some people who put their ratings down to commit to what their criteria was, as I believe a lot of people just run off popular belief as pushed out through the boxing media. Glad to see Dawson so high in your ratings definitely agree. Joe also is another good fighter, and deserving of his spot. Manny is overated by most, so I agree with you there also. I personally think that Cotto is more talented then Vasquez, but obviously it all comes down to personal preference.

I actually have been tempted to rate Cotto more highly, but I want to see him beat Mosley first. You and I probably feel the same that the Quintana destruction is more noteworthy than given credit.

I put Izzy there because there because of his ability to deal with a variety of styles, and Cotto's life and death war with Torres makes me slightly more hesitant than I am with Vazquez. But Miguel certainly will rise on my list if he beats Mosley.

[kel]

I don't believe Dawson wld beat Kessler or Calzaghe at 168lbs. Dawson had a good win over Adamek who was lucky to get past Briggs on 2 occassions. I believe Calzaghe and Kessler wld murder Briggs.

Therefore on his short career to date Dawson is not top 10 just yet.

[Kegsy]

1. Ben Crampton
2-10 Ben Crampton:patsch

Hey Ben how r u.:hi: