j.frazier vs sonny liston

[Mr Butt]

i am sure this must of been done to death before so sorry

this is a 12 round fight and the frazier of the 67 chuvalo fight ,and the liston of the 67 elmer rush fight .

[turpinr]

i am sure this must of been done to death before so sorry

this is a 12 round fight and the frazier of the 67 chuvalo fight ,and the liston of the 67 elmer rush fight .it was never a secret that joe frazier was kept away from sonny.sonny would've crushed joe exactly the same way george foreman did

[PetethePrince]

it was never a secret that joe frazier was kept away from sonny.sonny would've crushed joe exactly the same way george foreman did

:nut

Nobody fought the aging Liston. It was a high risk no reward situation for an up and coming fight. Frazier getting crushed by a 35 year old Liston requires a little bit of faith.

[choklab]

I think it would have helped Fraziers legacy to have patterson and liston on his resume. If frazier had beat these as well as foster and ali (like he did) fraziers career would have matched marcianos achievements- especialy had he retired before fighting foreman!

Maybe cloverlay were playing it safe, i dont know but these fights were not made or saught in the same way jacobs saught holmes for tyson. maybe they did not happen because safer fight could be made for as much money?

A lot of fans asume liston was capable of anything foreman did but i think this is lazy. Firstly frazier never was the same after the first ali fight so foeman did not beat anything like the guy who ellis and ali met. remember george could not ko peralta (who was kod by pastrano) but could ko frazier after joe had been through the war with ali.

Secondly, how many guys who hit as hard as frazier did foreman fight?

Thirdly, if joes philly counter part could ace Liston why not the dadddy of the philly gyms himself?

Basicly i would like more people to asses the "pre ali" joe frazier when assesing his strengths. At that point only bonanvena hurt him and he outstrengthed a guy liston should have fought -chuvalo. Liston blew away patterson and people get carried away. ingo had already softened floyds resisitance so sonny benefited from some of the same kudos george enjoyed when he beat frazier.
its entirely speculation but I go for frazier. thats who my money would be on.

[clark]

Frazier '67 stops Liston '67.

[Russell]

I think it would have helped Fraziers legacy to have patterson and liston on his resume. If frazier had beat these as well as foster and ali (like he did) fraziers career would have matched marcianos achievements- especialy had he retired before fighting foreman!

.

:lol::lol::lol:

................

:rofl:rofl:rofl

[Woller]

Liston was simply too slow for a young and smoking Joe Frazier. Frazier by early knock out.

Woller

[McGrain]

:nut

Nobody fought the aging Liston. It was a high risk no reward situation for an up and coming fight. Frazier getting crushed by a 35 year old Liston requires a little bit of faith.


Yeah, anyone expecting Frazier to meet Liston is missing the point a bit.

I do think Liston has a chance. It would be painful to watch though, most likely.

[choklab]

Yeah, anyone expecting Frazier to meet Liston is missing the point a bit.

I do think Liston has a chance. It would be painful to watch though, most likely.



maybe liston became "mister who needs him?" once he was an exchamp but the record shows he was beaten by the next rated guy he fought and joe bugner did a beter job on wepner than liston did after all.

either liston seriously faded or he was never quite the monster he was built up to be.

[djanders]

Sonny would be too much for Joe...in my opinion.

[clark]

Frazier would be hitting Liston with a lot more than this:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[McGrain]

maybe liston became "mister who needs him?" once he was an exchamp but the record shows he was beaten by the next rated guy he fought and joe bugner did a beter job on wepner than liston did after all.

either liston seriously faded or he was never quite the monster he was built up to be.


Liston knocked out the next rated guy he fought, Henry Clark in 8. It's maybe his best generalship performance.

[choklab]

that was a good win but didnt clarke draw with brian london about the same time? london was tough but never did win when he steped up in class.

[choklab]

Liston knocked out the next rated guy he fought, Henry Clark in 8. It's maybe his best generalship performance.


according to the ring annual ratings clark did not register until 1974 but i accept at 15-3-1 he was a on a good run at the time he fought liston and perhaps he might have popped into a monthly list in 68'. martin made the annual list at the time he fought liston and the previous year.

[Stevie G]

i am sure this must of been done to death before so sorry

this is a 12 round fight and the frazier of the 67 chuvalo fight ,and the liston of the 67 elmer rush fight .
Prime for prime Sonny Liston would have been a nightmare for Joe Frazier,in a similar way that George Foreman was. In the time that you're talking about,however,Joe rides out the opening storm from the ageing Liston and stops Sonny in the middle/late rounds.

[cuchulain]

Sonny would be too much for Joe...in my opinion.

The Sonny of 67, probably.

But the Sonny of both Patterson fights, and even the one who fought Clay, would on my opinion , make short work of Joe.

[tommygun711]

sonny by stoppage.
Frazier would slip the big jab of Liston, and then get nailed by an uppercut and followed up by powerful hooks and right hands.
fraziers arsenal is not enough for Liston, who was actually a decent defensive fighter.
Ali is not a defensive fighter by no means. once someone is on top of him and punching him, he puts his guard up or holds.
liston coils move and dodge these shots a bit.
I give Liston the TKO victory over Joe.

[Unforgiven]

Liston was well over-the-hill by '67 but I guess he's still a dangerous style for Frazier, and still had some meat on his punches.
Still, I'd lean towards Frazier, the fitter, younger, hungrier, quicker man.

Prime-for-prime, I'm backing Liston all day every day. But '67 Liston I dont put much faith in.

[timmers612]

Geese, its hard not to think Joe would have caught Sonny with several hooks as big as the one Leotis hung on him in this time frame. Maybe Sonny did have the flu during the Martin bout but he fought well and was abit ahead, it looks like he just got caught and would have been out in any case. I don't think Sonny had enough hammer left in his punches to stop Joe for very long in '67. The Sonny of the early sixties may have done a job on Joe in the early rounds though, at least enough to win the decision clear if not stop him on route.

[choklab]

this would be a smash up. botom line is If liston lands first frazier still gets up. liston wasnt really much heavier than frazier and 200lb guys usualy did well against him. that left hook of joes would find a home under listons jab. you could make an impresion on frazier and not stem any of his fire. im convinced frazier would make an impresion on sonny and that would take more out of liston.