What if...90s HWs - who would have come out on top - Tyson, Holy, Bowe, or Lewis?

[streetsaresafer]

What would have happened to the 90s era HWs IF.........................

1. Tyson was acquitted (which he should have been), stayed focused on boxing, and perhaps hired Kevin Rooney back

2. Holyfield didn't have any health problems - Heart/Shoulder/Hepatitis A, whatever

3. Bowe (Rock Newman) was willing to fight Lewis, plus stay in shape

4. Lewis was not so beholdent to the WBC

Which of the big 4 would have emerged as the best heavyweight - Tyson? Holyfield? Bowe? Lewis?

Basically I want you to pick the winners of the following fights...................
Then tell me............
Which of the 4 would have emerged as the best?
How would the fights have affected the big 4's ranking as far as all time HWs go?
And finally, had these fights happened would the 90s era have matched or perhaps exceeded the golden age of the 70s HWs?

Note - regarding Bowe/Holyfield I and II - you can leave these fights as is, which is what I have done with my predictions, just say the fight happened like it did in real life, although if you want you can argue for a different result. The reason why I personlly left Bowe/Holyfield I and II the same is that they were prime v. prime clashes that we as boxing fans have little to complain about.

HERE ARE THE FIGHTS I WANT YOU TO PREDICT...................

1991 - Holyfield/Tyson I

1992 - Bowe/Holyfield I

1993 - Bowe/Lewis I
Bowe/Holyfield II

1994 - A HW tournament is announced (ala the 74 tournament that
matched up Ali/Frazier on one side and Foreman/Norton on the
other, with the winners meeting later that year)
Holyfield and Lewis fight on one side of the bracket
Bowe and Tyson fight on the other side of the bracket
Winners meet later that year
So pick.......
Holyfield/Lewis
Bowe/Tyson
Plus the winners...............(Holy/Tyson II, or Holy/Bowe III, or
Lewis/Tyson, or Bowe/Lewis II are the possible fights)

1995 - This obviously hinges on how you pick the tournament to go but
for me here are the fights that would have happened in 95.....
Bowe/Lewis II
Lewis/Tyson
Bowe/Holyfield III (no Hepatitis A for Holy here)

1996 - Lewis/Bowe III
Lewis/Tyson II
Holyfield/Lewis II?

Anyway basically pick the winners of the above fights as you think it would have happened..................



My Predictions

1991 - Holyfield/Tyson I - Holyfield 12th round TKO
I see Tyson winning 4 out of the first 5 rounds, possibly dominating Holyfield in those rounds. But Holyfield's iron chin and will, and superior boxing ability takes over in the middle and late rounds. I see Holyfield starting to time Tyson better coming in. Holyfield would tie Tyson up effectively and use his feet effectively. I see Holyfield's counter punching style as almost a perfect foil for Mike past round 5. Tyson would slow down just enough for a prime Holyfield to take over. And Holyfield eventually gets him in the 12th in a great fight.

1992 - Tyson beats some no name opponents
Lewis/Rudduck - same as actually happened - Lewis KO 2
Bowe/Holyfield I - same as actually happened - Bowe UD


1993 - Bowe/Lewis I - Bowe 9th round KO
Bowe prime here, Lewis was not; plus Bowe had the better uppercut, left jab, chin, and in fighting skills over the somewhat raw Lewis that pawed too much with his jab and had a defense that was not as tight as when Steward got a hold of him, Lewis's right hand would be a real threat but Eddie Futch would effectively gameplan to limit the danger of Lewis's right just enough for Bowe to knock Lewis out before Lewis can knock Bowe out - great fight, best big man fight of all time....
Holyfield beats Stewart just like in real life
Tyson fights and KOs Tommy Morrison in the 4th
Bowe crushes Jesse Ferguson just like in real life
Lewis fights and beats Bruno just like in real life
Bowe/Holyfield II - same as actually happened - Holyfield MD
Tyson crushes a shot Dokes

1994 - Results of the 94 HW tournament
Holyfield/Lewis - Holyfield UD (close but clear decision, Holyfield's superior workrate + effective aggression get him the nod)
Bowe/Tyson - Tyson 6th round KO (think Hagler/Hearns for
HWs, both guys go down perhaps before Tyson finishes it)
Holy/Tyson II - Holyfield UD (Tyson makes adjustments from
their first fight but it is not enough)
Lewis fights and loses to McCall just like in real life
Bowe fights Foreman and wins

1995 - Bowe/Lewis II - Lewis UD
Non title fight between Bowe and Lewis here for the rematch - Lewis wins because Lewis is now prime, Manny Steward has made Lewis's jab a lot more effective, has tightened up Lewis's defense, and the extra 10 plus pounds (particularly with the legs) has made Lewis a more balanced and complete fighter. Lewis outpoints a still close to prime Bowe in yet another great fight. Lewis possibly finishes Bowe late, but I say Lewis by close but clear UD.
Holyfield as undisputed champ fights Michael Moorer and knocks
him out like he did in their real fight in 97
Lewis/Tyson I - Tyson KO 5th round (Tyson is losing competitvely
on the cards but catches Lewis perfectly with a ferocious right
hand and gets the KO)
Holyfield fights Ray Mercer and wins the decision just like he did
in real life in 95
Bowe/Holy III - Holyfield 6th round TKO - this time Holyfield
doesn't have Hepatitis A, and thus when he knocks Bowe down
in the 6th he finishes the job in the corner and Cortez stops the
fight
Afterwards, Holyfield retires as undisputed champion with only
the one loss to Bowe on his record. Holyfield is ranked as high
as 3rd all time by Ring Magazine with his resume - 2 wins over a
near prime Tyson, 2 wins over a prime Bowe, 1 win over a near
prime Lewis, plus the victories over Dokes, Foreman, Holmes, Moorer, and Mercer, and again only the 1 loss to a prime Bowe in 92.

1996 - With Holyfield retired, the 3 major belts are up for grabs again...
Tyson beats Bruno for the WBA crown
Bowe beats Golota by disqualification for the IBF crown
Lewis beats Morrison for the WBC crown
Lewis/Bowe III - Lewis 5th round KO
Bowe is now badly faded/perhaps shot at this point and Lewis is too strong for him and gives the most dominating performance of his career.
Lewis has the WBC and IBF crowns now
Lewis fights and beats Mercer by a close decision just like their real fight.
Bowe fights Golota again to get respect back; but again he gets
battered, but wins by disqualification
Bowe retires after his 2nd fight with Golota at the end of 96

1997 - Lewis/Tyson II for the undisputed championship
Lewis - 11th round TKO
The physical advantages for Lewis are evident here. Lewis is 6-5, a full 6 inches taller than the 5-11 Tyson. Lewis's reach is 84 inches, a full 13 inch advantage on the 71 inch Tyson. Lewis is also a good 25 pounds heavier. I see Tyson doing pretty well in the first 5 rounds though. In fact, I think he wins 3 out of the first 5 rounds in a pretty competitive fight. But then Lewis takes over. He eventually hurts Mike with an uppercut in the mid rounds. Mike starts to slow down, becomes less aggressive, and becomes even easier to hit. It is at this point (past round 5) that the fight starts to look a lot like their fight in 2002. Lewis starts hitting Tyson almost at will with his jab, and then starts hammering the right hand successfully. Tyson's near granite chin though, plus Lewis's generally cautious style and healthy fear for Tyson's power keeps Tyson in the fight though. But eventually Lewis is too much and the ref stops the fight in the 11th.

Lewis is undisputed champ
Tyson fights another year or two then retires
Lewis goes on to fight many of the same opponents he did in
real life, and retires after the Vitali fight in 2003

So after how the 90s should have gone..........

Holyfield is a top 5 HW on nearly everyone's list with 2 wins over a near prime Tyson, 2 wins over prime Bowe, a win over a near prime Lewis (thus posting an impressive 5-1 mark aganst the other 3), plus the wins over Dokes, Douglas, Foreman, Holmes, Moorer, and Mercer, and again only the single loss to a prime Bowe in 92.

Lewis is a top 10 HW on nearly everyone's list with 2 wins over a near prime Bowe, a win over a past prime but still formidable Tyson, competitive losses to Bowe, Holyfield, and Tyson, plus the wins he racked up like Rudduck, Mercer, Tua, Vitali, etc.

Tyson is a top 10 HW on nearly everyone's list as well with wins over a prime Bowe in 94, prime Lewis in 95, Spinks in 88, prime Rudduck twice in 91, two competitive losses to Holyfield, one competitive loss to Lewis in 97, and the other wins he racked up.

Bowe is a top 15 HW on nearly everyone's list with having the only win over a prime Holyfield, wins over a near prime Lewis in 93, competitive losses to Holyfield, Tyson, and Lewis, and the other wins he racked up - Tubbs, Foreman, etc.

All in all, the 90s era HWs would have ended up matching the golden era of the 70s HWs had the above happened. Too bad it didn't.

So tell me which of the big 4 would have emerged as the best heavweight of the 4?

[Shotgun]

Lewis

[MagnificentMatt]

I would say lewis, but you said Holyfield without health problems... ;-)

[rydersonthestorm]

Bowe would never beat lennox lewis, after he got battered in the olympic's he new that lewis would get the best of him thats why he avoided him like the plague. I don't see holyfield ever beating lewis as i don't think he had the size or ko punch to stop him from outboxing holyfield. Tyson would have the best shot at beating lewis but that would have been the 80's tyson not the one that got rocked by frank bruno.

[anut]

I THINK HOLYFIELD BEATS THEM ALL.....HOLY OF 93 THAT IS......HOLY WOULD BEAT TYSON/BOWE/LEWIS.......TYSON WOULD BEAT LEWIS/BOWE BUT WOULD LOOSE TIOO HOLY BASED ON STYLES.////:smoke:smoke:smoke:smoke

[Stinky gloves]

Now, probably Holyfield :smoke

[streetsaresafer]

I don't think Olympic results are a good measure as to how pro fights will turn out.

Best evidence of that is that Henry Tillman beat Tyson in the amateurs. And then Tyson knocked him out in 1 round in the pros in 1990.

So to me the amateur fight doesn't really tell us much.
Yes, Lewis was winning that clearly, but I also thought the stoppage was a bit premature.

To me Bowe was more advanced than Lewis in 93; which is why I think he would have won the fight. Bowe was the vastly superior in fighter, had the better jab, better uppercut, better combination puncher, and had the better chin. Lewis's defense wasn't that tight in 93 and he pawed too much with his jab. Lewis was good, no doubt, but he was a bit too raw for Bowe in 93 I think.

I don't think Bowe was 'terrified' of Lewis.

I think Rock Newman's beef with the WBC was a big part of the problem. Also Rock Newman saw the easy money and easy wins they could rack up with the 3 fight deal with HBO. Take Dokes and Ferguson out early in 'look good' fights. Then beat Holyfield easier the 2nd time (which is what most thought would happen). Then they figured they'd probably get to Lewis in 94. Obviously Holyfield's victory changed things.

You have to also remember that Bowe and Lewis agreed to fight in early 95. Bowe thanked Newman for getting him the fight. And then Lewis unfortunately lost to McCall; thus killing the bout.

So yes, Bowe 'ducked' Lewis in 93, without question. But I don't think he was 'terrified' of Lewis. I think it would have been a great fight in 93 and an argument can be made for both men. I happen to like Bowe in 93. But again I think Lewis would have taken the rematch in 95, and the rubber match in 96.

[Fighting Weight]

What's the point in imagining some parallel universe for this?

In reality Lennox Lewis proved himself to be the best of that era, end of discussion.

[sues2nd]

Ive watched just about EVERY fight from all of them.....and head to head, I still say, noone beats Riddick Bowe. I know that is gonna draw the ire from most of the people on this forum, but I can EASILY make an arguement for him vs all of the top guys.

[Vanboxingfan]

Ive watched just about EVERY fight from all of them.....and head to head, I still say, noone beats Riddick Bowe. I know that is gonna draw the ire from most of the people on this forum, but I can EASILY make an arguement for him vs all of the top guys.

Hey, a well thought out argument is what makes these boards interesting so rather than talk about making an argument in favour of Bowe, please do so. It would make for an interesting post!

[streetsaresafer]

bump

[Muchmoore]

Lewis, followed by Bowe, Holyfield, and Tyson.

[2smart4u]

What's the point in imagining some parallel universe for this?

In reality Lennox Lewis proved himself to be the best of that era, end of discussion.:deal This asshole has it correct !:bart

[Lacyace]

Lewis, followed by Bowe, Holyfield, and Tyson.

Right.

[Fedor Em]

From 90 to 95 Holyfield would come out on top if all 4 kept fighting each other. From 95 on Lewis.

[anut]

What's the point in imagining some parallel universe for this?

In reality Lennox Lewis proved himself to be the best of that era, end of discussion.

SHIT DUDE HE BARELY BEAT A 37 YR OLD HOLYFIELD...........AND TYSON....WELL TYSON WAS ALREADY DONE WHEN HE GOT OUTTA THE PEN

[Vanboxingfan]

SHIT DUDE HE BARELY BEAT A 37 YR OLD HOLYFIELD...........AND TYSON....WELL TYSON WAS ALREADY DONE WHEN HE GOT OUTTA THE PEN

I'm not sure what barely beat means when by most accounts he won about 17 out of the 24 rounds they fought. :yep

[Dinoman]

What's the point in imagining some parallel universe for this?

In reality Lennox Lewis proved himself to be the best of that era, end of discussion.

You can't argue with that. Holyfield beat Tyson twice and Bowe beat Holyfield twice - Lewis beat them all or would of if Bowe would of fought him.

[fightfan]

I think Lewis would have emerged as the best! With Holyfield a close 2nd...... As long as we are dreaming about what if............. What if during that same period a prime Golota didn't have anxiety attacks or mental problems??? Imagine the fighter that clobbered Bowe twice, didn't lose on stupidity????

[Decker]

:deal This asshole has it correct !:bart :rofl
I won't admit to what my exact thoughts were when I read FWs post, but this is the rare exception to his usual fare. He is actually correct here :shock: Relish the moment, they don't come along too often :yep

[sues2nd]

Ive watched just about EVERY fight from all of them.....and head to head, I still say, noone beats Riddick Bowe. I know that is gonna draw the ire from most of the people on this forum, but I can EASILY make an arguement for him vs all of the top guys.

I will make it as short and as sweet as possible. I abstained from doing it originally, knowing how insane the Tyson and Lewis fans on here can get (both fighters I love....BTW). But since ya asked.

Remember, we are talking a prime, motivated Riddick Bowe....

Prime Bowe had a TREMENDOUS chin. Was mass wise the biggest of the four. Was the best inside fighter of the four (one of the best ever at the HW division). Had great power in both hands.

We know how his fights vs Holyfield went, so we dont have to rehash that. Bowe wins in this one.

We will start with Tyson.

Bowe could take what Mike could give out....I dont think there is much of a debate about that. There is always an outside chance of a KO when Tyson is involved, but with Bowe's phenominal chin, it would be just that, an OUTSIDE chance.

Riddick also was great at using his size and leverage to lean and wear down his opponents on the inside...and given his size advantage, that is where most of the fight would take place.

I see this fight going into the mid rounds, with Mike tiring and eventually being stopped in the 8th or 9th....maybe earlier.

Now onto Lewis....

This would be a great matchup. Let me get that out of the way right at the beginning.

Now, I could see the start of the fight being controlled by Lewis' jab. Tho somewhere in the mid rounds, eventually he would be walked down and the fight would be taken inside (like all of Bowe's fights seem to go...and where most of Lewis' go in the later rounds as well). And on the inside, the fight would far favor Riddick.

Lewis, I could see taking it by points, but there is a X-factor that you ALWAYS have to take into account with his fights....his ability to be hurt. He was hurt by Mercer, hurt by Tyson, hurt by Mccall, hurt by Rahman, hurt by Vitali...if the fight went inside, he WOULD be hurt by Bowe. And just like Lewis, Bowe was a GREAT finisher.

I would see a late KO by Bowe. Tho as I said, I could see Lewis taking it on points....but just as I said.....with Lewis' ability to be hurt (badly at times) the stoppage is a far more likely possability.

The thing that kills me the most is when the Lewis fans always bring up the Olympics thing as some sign that Bowe would lose....which is just plain fucking stupid. Both of these fighters grew and matured and became greats......and as I said in my original post, if Bowe stayed motivated and didnt go a little :nut ....he would have been the best of the four....and by all accounts would be the favorite h2h.

So there ya go (I could make this alot more in-depth, but.....).

And btw, prime for prime, I think any of Holyfield, Lewis and Bowe could win a fight vs the other one......but I just dont see Tyson beating any of the three outside of a unexpected KO (ALWAYS a chance with Mike...as stated). Tho I will never argue that Bowe accomplished anything near the other three.

H2H:

1- Bowe
2- Lewis
3- Holyfield




4- Tyson

Ranking All Time:

1- Lewis
2- Holyfield


3- Tyson
















4- Bowe

:good

(Let the flaming from the insane Tyson and Lewis fans begin.....:D )

[Morrissey]

bump....

[Eubank]

:rofl :patsch

[crippet]

someone explain how Bowe had such a good chin.

Always got on my nerves how Lewis was viewed as having a "glass" chin whilst Bowe supposedly had a "concrete" chin. IMO Lewis' chin was at least on par with Bowe's.


Did Bowe ever fighter a hard hitter??

He was badly hurt off Hide and was lucky Hide started trading with him instead of successfully picking him off as he had been.

Tyson and Lewis would both KO Bowe similar to the way they beat Golota [who is about on par with Bowe]


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