Calzaghe & Mayeather's CV / Resume , is there much difference ???

[thewinfella]

IMO There is'nt , and i just sparked a big debate on another thread so thought id open this up !!!!!

Lets dance !!!!

[Dan684]

Yes. Mayweathers list of opponents is completey superior to that of Calzaghe's.

If you posted up the same two sets of fighters that you did in the last forum. I will kill myself if Calzaghe's is considered the better

Do a poll too you terd :good

[Top Dog]

Yes. Mayweathers list of opponents is completey superior to that of Calzaghe's.

If you posted up the same two sets of fighters that you did in the last forum. I will kill myself if Calzaghe's is considered the better

Do a poll too you terd :good


Lets do a pole and vote for Joe just so that Dan684 will top himself:D:hey;)

[Dan684]

You do a pole then you filthy shit and the rest of us will hopefull start voting on a POLL that numnuts may or may not put up :lol

[thewinfella]

Dan 864 or what ever your name is , here goes :

Calzaghe's notable wins :

Eubank - proven world class SMW , the then world champion , maybe a little past his best .

Woodhall - A good domestic fight for a world title which proved Woodhall did not belong at world level

Reid - Reid in his prime gave Calzaghe the biggest problem of his whole career , not Joe's best performance .

Bika - Another untidy win against a genuine world class SMW who still sits in the top 8 - 5 fighters in the world .

Lacy - Un defeated Lacy was looking un stoppable and Calzaghe completley dominated him , he never looked the same after that .

Kessler - The best Mikkel Kessler anybody @167 has ever fought and Calzaghe served up a boxing lesson and unified the division . By far a career best win .

Hopkins - Calzaghe allowed Hopkins to fight his fight and it looked scrappy but Calzaghe won the fight clearly in most people's eyes , either way a genuine challenger at a higher weight class

Jones - the name looks good but we all Jones was shot .

Mayweather's notable wins :

Corrales - Ranked top 5 P4P , 34 and 0 with 34 stoppages and Floyd dominated , blitzing him in a career best win .

Castillo 1 - Floyd hometown decision , disgrace enough said .

Castillo 2 - Floyd wins a close fight by decision , very good win goes 1 & 1 with JLC .

Gatti - A blown up LW , served on a platter for Floyd @147 .

Judah - A genuine win at the time for Floyd did have some problems with Judah's rear hand but ran out comfortable winner

Hatton - Fighting a smaller man again , ran for most of the fight and worked Hatton out around the 6th from that point dominated and eventually stopped the LWW champ @147 .

De La Hoya - Stepping up in weight against a well over the hill De La Hoya , got a close SD .

Marquez - A blown up LW again served up ripely for Floyd again @147 (after he ignored the CW limit) .

Thats how i see it , how do you ???????? :deal

[s23041983]

mayweather has the much better resume, but calzaghe has fought some tough fighters, omar sheike, charles brewer, hopkins, jones, kessler, lacey (hehe), but he has always been overprotected by that cunt frank ******. theres no doubting calzaghes ability, and his heart, but he should have left ****** years ago. amir khan has thankfully seen what happens if u stay with ******!

mayweather has the superior resume!!:deal

[Dan684]

I'm not bothering picking holes in your ridiculous breakdown. If the poll goes against me I shall THEN pick holes in it before I shall probably take a break from this forum

[s23041983]

Dan 864 or what ever your name is , here goes :

Calzaghe's notable wins :

Eubank - proven world class SMW , the then world champion , maybe a little past his best .

Woodhall - A good domestic fight for a world title which proved Woodhall did not belong at world level

Reid - Reid in his prime gave Calzaghe the biggest problem of his whole career , not Joe's best performance .

Bika - Another untidy win against a genuine world class SMW who still sits in the top 8 - 5 fighters in the world .

Lacy - Un defeated Lacy was looking un stoppable and Calzaghe completley dominated him , he never looked the same after that .

Kessler - The best Mikkel Kessler anybody @167 has ever fought and Calzaghe served up a boxing lesson and unified the division . By far a career best win .

Hopkins - Calzaghe allowed Hopkins to fight his fight and it looked scrappy but Calzaghe won the fight clearly in most people's eyes , either way a genuine challenger at a higher weight class

Jones - the name looks good but we all Jones was shot .

Mayweather's notable wins :

Corrales - Ranked top 5 P4P , 34 and 0 with 34 stoppages and Floyd dominated , blitzing him in a career best win .

Castillo 1 - Floyd hometown decision , disgrace enough said .

Castillo 2 - Floyd wins a close fight by decision , very good win goes 1 & 1 with JLC .

Gatti - A blown up LW , served on a platter for Floyd @147 .

Judah - A genuine win at the time for Floyd did have some problems with Judah's rear hand but ran out comfortable winner

Hatton - Fighting a smaller man again , ran for most of the fight and worked Hatton out around the 6th from that point dominated and eventually stopped the LWW champ @147 .

De La Hoya - Stepping up in weight against a well over the hill De La Hoya , got a close SD .

Marquez - A blown up LW again served up ripely for Floyd again @147 (after he ignored the CW limit) .

Thats how i see it , how do you ???????? :deal
dont forget to add sheikha and brewer to that calzaghe list. they were world class contenders at the time and especially sheikhe

[Top Dog]

You do a pole then you filthy shit and the rest of us will hopefull start voting on a POLL that numnuts may or may not put up :lol


Oh yeah didnt notice the typo. too busy trying to be a smartarse:D:lol:

[noonan]

Title was vacant when Calzaghe won it wasnt it?? so Eubank wasnt champ

[thewinfella]

I'm not bothering picking holes in your ridiculous breakdown. If the poll goes against me I shall THEN pick holes in it before I shall probably take a break from this forum

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I knew you would fold dick head !!!!!

[Dan684]

Noonan you are correct.

And the S/M weight limit is 168 not 167
And Floyd/Gatti was for a L/Welter title not 147
And Floyd ran for virtually none of the fight with Hatton
And Eubank was 'maybe a little past his best' he was years past it

[Dan684]

And i'm in work you tube and if you were that confident make this thread into a poll.

[GazOC]

I think Calzaghe can get a little OTT stick over his record but even giving him every benefit of the doubt it still doesn't match up to Mayweathers.

[ryanm8655]

Am I the only person who thinks Mayweather's resume is seriously underrated? MAyweather wins this easily and I like Calzaghe a lot.

I admire Joe's achievements and the fact he was never beaten but he wouldn't have had the same longevity if he had fought the best throughout his world title reign, but then there weren't too many obvious fighters for him to face other than Ottke but it wasn't like he ducked him.

[thewinfella]

mayweather has the much better resume, but calzaghe has fought some tough fighters, omar sheike, charles brewer, hopkins, jones, kessler, lacey (hehe), but he has always been overprotected by that cunt frank ******. theres no doubting calzaghes ability, and his heart, but he should have left ****** years ago. amir khan has thankfully seen what happens if u stay with ******!

mayweather has the superior resume!!:deal

IMO they are very similar and actually are very even , here's why :

Mayweather has had all his best wins and performance's early on , Manfredy , Corrales , Castillo 2 !!! , Calzaghe's best wins came late on , Kessler , Hopkins , Lacy !!!

Floyd has not gone into a fight 50 - 50 in terms of weight , timing of the fight , ability or with anybody at that time proven to be in or near there prime since his LW days . Mosley is a pick em fight clearly .......... but that hasnt happened yet .

Calzaghe on the other hand came on late , fought Lacy nobody gave him a prayer at his peak , Kessler at his peak and Hokpins whilst in the best form of his boxing career (ala Pavlik) IMO they are even !!!!!!

[Dan684]

MAKE A POLL BELLPOT :good

Lets see the numbers

[GazOC]

If fighters like Woodhall and Bika are getting a mention for Calzaghe then shouldn't the likes of Hernandez and Jesus Chavez be on Mayweathers slate?

[Dan684]

Yes Gaz they should :good

Fucking Bika and Woodhall :lol

[ollyc]

yes gaz they should :good

fucking bika and woodhall :lol

oi!

[s23041983]

IMO they are very similar and actually are very even , here's why :

Mayweather has had all his best wins and performance's early on , Manfredy , Corrales , Castillo 2 !!! , Calzaghe's best wins came late on , Kessler , Hopkins , Lacy !!!

Floyd has not gone into a fight 50 - 50 in terms of weight , timing of the fight , ability or with anybody at that time proven to be in or near there prime since his LW days . Mosley is a pick em fight clearly .......... but that hasnt happened yet .

Calzaghe on the other hand came on late , fought Lacy nobody gave him a prayer at his peak , Kessler at his peak and Hokpins whilst in the best form of his boxing career (ala Pavlik) IMO they are even !!!!!!
fair point! but just look at the names and their biggest fights....

CALZAGHE = hopkins, jones, kessler, lacey, sheiker, brewer, eubank, bika

MAYWEATHER = corales, castillo, gatti, judah, de la hoya, marquez, hatton, ndou

... ok maybe i exagerated by saying its FAR better than calzaghes. but it is better i think. if calzaghe hadnt mashed up his hands so much and he had left ****** early on, he would have a much better record.

[Dan684]

What ? As much as I like Woodhall he is nowehere near the level of the fighters which Mayweather fought on that list. And why get shirty over Woodhall ? Bika was mentioned too :yep

[kosaros]

Eubank - proven world class SMW , the then world champion , maybe a little past his best .

Maybe? :lol:

Woodhall - A good domestic fight for a world title which proved Woodhall did not belong at world level

:nono

[icemax]

Eubank - proven world class SMW , the then world champion , maybe a little past his best .

Sorry mate, but I stopped reading here...Eubank was significantly worse than "maybe a little past his best"...he didn't win another fight. His last decent win prior to this was against Wharton nearly 4 years earlier

[Nel has heart]

Calzaghe doesnt HAVE a resume. He has had three big fights that mean anything in his career. Eubank (shot), Kessler and Hopkins (44, some say he lost).

He ducked Taylor, Pavlik, Johnson, Dawson, Wright, Prime Jones, Prime Hopkins. Mayweathers record pisses all over Floyds. Period.

Maybe if Calzaghe fought some of these names instead of guys like Tocker Pudwell he would get respect.

[icemax]

The Mayweather selection picked by the OP is seriously light and missing several fighters Pep, Mitchell, Hernandez....Even Baldomir is fucking better than anyone that that Welsh prick has ever faced

[Dan684]

Where is the thread starter ? I want this into a poll

[icemax]

Where is the thread starter ? I want this into a poll

He already has his answer:yep

[noonan]

Calzaghe doesnt HAVE a resume. He has had three big fights that mean anything in his career. Eubank (shot), Kessler and Hopkins (44, some say he lost).

He ducked Taylor, Pavlik, Johnson, Dawson, Wright, Prime Jones, Prime Hopkins. Mayweathers record pisses all over Floyds. Period.

Maybe if Calzaghe fought some of these names instead of guys like Tocker Pudwell he would get respect.

I Agree Mayweathers record beats Floyds.......???!!!???!!!

It was hardly a prime JC against Eubank either

[kosaros]

Mayweathers record pisses all over Floyds.

:think:lol:

[GazOC]

Kind of dodgy ground calling Calzaghe for "ducking" Wright, Pavlik, Taylor and a prime Hopkins when none of them spent much time at 168lbs when Calzaghe was active.

Records are about who boxers DID fight.

[ishy]

Mayweather has a better record than Calzaghe. End thread.

[toffeejack]

Mayweather has the better resume but it's not by as much as some would have you believe.

[Dan684]

Yeah it is Toffee :good

[THE KNUCKLE]

WOULD BE ASWELL ADDING MOSELEY AND PAC TO PBF RESUME CAUSE THOSE FIGHTS WILL BE IN THE BAG,,NOONE ON EARTH HAS THE SKILLS THAT GUY HAS..END OF...CALZAGHE NEVER DUCKED ANYONE THOUGH AND IS THE BEST BRITISH FIGHTER EVER IMO:finger5:finger5

[Dan684]

Your opinion is ridiculous :finger

[Flea Man]

Both fighters resumes are piss poor considering the amount of fights they've had.

They both have their own abilities, but everyone sees Floyd as some technically superior machine with a blend of impenetrable skills.

I've seen shitloads more impressive fighters skillwise, and in fighting/beating better opposition too, with far more stacked resumes and fighting far more regularly.

Floyd is above Calzaghe, but Calzaghe has faced the best fighter out of the pair, that being Bernard Hopkins.

[Davies]

Mayweather is far superior to that of Calzaghe's end of

[beecho1988]

Mayweathers cv is a million times better than calzaghes, i dont know how you can even compare them

[Flea Man]

You can compare them. As I say, Calzaghe has faced the best fighter out of the two in B-Hop.

[brown bomber]

There is no comparison Joe's record is a joke when looked closely into.

[Dan684]

So apart from the OP the only person who says they're close is the lad slowly becoming the biggest Floyd Hater on the forum :deal

[essexboy]

Mayweather easily, I liked Joe but his opposition was pretty poor, Mayweathers isnt as bad as people make out, unbeaten Corrales, unbeaten Hatton, DLH, Marquez are all good wins and better than most of Calzaghe's. I give him credit for beating Eubank, Lacy, Kessler and Hopkins but Lacy was a pretty limited opponent and Kessler hasnt proved himself against anyone notable, Hopkins was post-prime but still dangerous. Yeah I think Mayweather has the better CV fairly comfortably, when he adds Mosley it wont be close at all.

[TFFP]

Yes, there is a comfortable margin between the two.

Mayweather has the record of a top 40 fighter but probably not any higher and generally gets a huge pass for his perceived H2H skills when people talk about him as one of the greatest of all-time because his record is nowhere near the best. Particularly the last few years have been disapointing after making a great start to his career.

Calzaghe didn't fight good enough opposition consistently to be anything more than a borderline great depending on who you talk to and I understand peoples POV when they say he isn't. Personally I'd have him around 90-100.

[mbrockett]

funny how calzaghe 'destroyed' lacy and kessler now... it must be his brutal KO power that is destroying all these fighters.

[TFFP]

funny how calzaghe 'destroyed' lacy and kessler now... it must be his brutal KO power that is destroying all these fighters.
What is your point? :huh

[VIP]

Mayweather owns Calzaghe whatever way you look at it.

P4P rankings.
Better boxer hands down.
Better opponents.
More titles across more weight classes.
Fought at a higher calibre earlier on.

[BoxingFanNo1]

More titles across more weight classes.

That is a mute point.

[Flea Man]

If anyone wants me too, I can argue Floyd out of a top 50. I'm pretty happy with my list, and the fighters on it are far more accomplished, and in most cases, more skilled.

I just can't see why so many boxing fans hold this guy in such high regard, and his skillset too. Nothing special. I can think of better defensive fighters who also fought better opposition.

[Gaz S]

Sorry mate, but I stopped reading here...Eubank was significantly worse than "maybe a little past his best"...he didn't win another fight. His last decent win prior to this was against Wharton nearly 4 years earlier


It is also often overlooked that Eubank took this fight at less than 2 weeks notice, and his previous two fights to this were at light heavyweight and hadn't boxed at the super-middleweight limit for two years.
So Eubank was well past what he once was, took the fight at short notice and had to cut weight. So when you look at those facts, it isn't as great a result as it first appears on paper.

[Flea Man]

Dan; I'm a 'hater', you're a 'hugger' :lol:

My points are valid though. Floyd is massively overrated.

[The_Real_Deal]

Mayweather has the better record for sure. But Calzaghe was a special fighter has Mayweather himself once stated.

[ed7890]

If anyone wants me too, I can argue Floyd out of a top 50. I'm pretty happy with my list, and the fighters on it are far more accomplished, and in most cases, more skilled.

I just can't see why so many boxing fans hold this guy in such high regard, and his skillset too. Nothing special. I can think of better defensive fighters who also fought better opposition.

Where would you place him?

And where would you place Calzaghe?

[Flea Man]

Calzaghe probably wouldn't make the top 100.

Floyd would be between 80-90 AS OF TODAY

[Flea Man]

For anyone thats interested, is there anyone here who Floyd has bettered (better opposition)

Harry Greb
Henry Armstrong
Ray Robinson
Ezzard Charles
Sam Langford
Roberto Duran
Benny Leonard
Willie Pep
Archie Moore
Muhammad Ali
Barney Ross
Mickey Walker
Tony Canzoneri
Bob Fitzsimmons
Barbados Joe Walcott
Charley Burley
Jimmy McLarnin
Terry McGovern
Joe Louis
Gene Tunney
George Dixon
Joe Gans
Ray Leonard
Pernell Whitaker
Sandy Saddler
Luis Manuel Rodriguez
Carlos Ortiz
Ike Williams
Kid Gavilan
Alexis Arguello
Jose Napoles
Eder Jofre
Carlos Monzon
Young Corbett III
Marvin Hagler
Julio Cesar Chavez
Emile Griffith
Roy Jones Jr
Michael Spinks
Manny Pacquiao
Fighting Harada
Jack Britton
Ruben Olivares
Thomas Hearns
jim Driscoll
Larry Holmes
Tommy Loughran
Jimmy Wilde
‘Panama’ Al Brown
Ted 'Kid' Lewis
Evander Holyfield
Dick Tiger

[thewinfella]

Yeah it is Toffee :good

You are a seriously boring poster on this forum , you come with 1 line shit comments with no facts !!!!!!

I didnt want to a poll dick head , if you wanna poll fuckin post it yourself !!!!!

My thoughts are this , Floyd and Calzaghe's resume's are pretty similar in terms of opponents faced and realistic threats at that time , i.e. the timing of the fight .

Outisde of LW Floyd has ducked everyone under the sun or hand picked smaller guys and shot fighters until right now (Mosley) .

Calzaghe was absent during the wonder years of the MW - SPMW era , ala Jones , Hopkins , Toney , Johnson etc etc , and had his best wins later on , but i didnt hear them guys shouting Calzaghe's name from the roof tops did you ?????

[thewinfella]

It is also often overlooked that Eubank took this fight at less than 2 weeks notice, and his previous two fights to this were at light heavyweight and hadn't boxed at the super-middleweight limit for two years.
So Eubank was well past what he once was, took the fight at short notice and had to cut weight. So when you look at those facts, it isn't as great a result as it first appears on paper.

Where the fuck has this one come from ??????????????

[thewinfella]

Calzaghe probably wouldn't make the top 100.

Floyd would be between 80-90 AS OF TODAY

Flea dick what the fuck in Gods name are you talking about !!!!!!

Calzaghe doesnt make the top 100 are you fuckin stupid ????? :patsch

[Flea Man]

Flea dick what the fuck in Gods name are you talking about !!!!!!

Calzaghe doesnt make the top 100 are you fuckin stupid ????? :patsch

Have a look at my top 50-odd fighters above.

You probably ain't heard of 'em, and who da fuck do you think you're calling Flea Dick you cheeky little cunt?!?!? I have my reasons for not having Calzaghe in there, he isn't top 100 material.

[Dan684]

You are a seriously boring poster on this forum , you come with 1 line shit comments with no facts !!!!!!

I didnt want to a poll dick head , if you wanna poll fuckin post it yourself !!!!!

My thoughts are this , Floyd and Calzaghe's resume's are pretty similar in terms of opponents faced and realistic threats at that time , i.e. the timing of the fight .

Outisde of LW Floyd has ducked everyone under the sun or hand picked smaller guys and shot fighters until right now (Mosley) .

Calzaghe was absent during the wonder years of the MW - SPMW era , ala Jones , Hopkins , Toney , Johnson etc etc , and had his best wins later on , but i didnt hear them guys shouting Calzaghe's name from the roof tops did you ?????

:|:|:|:|:|

Dry your eyes bellpot.

You did the thread to ask who thought what ?? Then you should have done the poll. My guesses are you found it too hard and probably couldn't do one. Either that or you knew that this was gonna be a one sided affair and didn't want to be made to look stupid. Even Flea who doesn't like Floyd has agreed that Floyd has the better record.

Flea's a very good poster and knows his stuff. Calzaghe would MAYBE break into the top 100 but not having him in there is not a raging travesty in anyones opinions.

The Eubank point of Gaz's is a well known point.

You are either on a wind up or you genuinely know nothing about the sport that you talk of. I'm presuming that you fall under the 'latter' of those choices as I haven't seen anything to suggest humour in your posts.

I'll direct you for future reference :good

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[thewinfella]

Have a look at my top 50-odd fighters above.

You probably ain't heard of 'em, and who da fuck do you think you're calling Flea Dick you cheeky little cunt?!?!? I have my reasons for not having Calzaghe in there, he isn't top 100 material.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Chill flea dick ,

Look man , your an older fight fan therefore your ATG list contains the older fighters , but boxing has evolved man , fighters are better now than they were years ago its just as simple as that .

Yes they havent fought 200 fights or they dont go through the weight divisions like a Taz mainian devil , but technically , and physically boxing has evolved 10 fold .

And Calzaghe not being considered in the AT top 100 is not stupid , not dum or even crazy , its just wrong !!!!!!!

[Dan684]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Chill flea dick ,

Look man , your an older fight fan therefore your ATG list contains the older fighters , but boxing has evolved man , fighters are better now than they were years ago its just as simple as that .

Yes they havent fought 200 fights or they dont go through the weight divisions like a Taz mainian devil , but technically , and physically boxing has evolved 10 fold .

And Calzaghe not being considered in the AT top 100 is not stupid , not dum or even crazy , its just wrong !!!!!!!

He's probably younger than you you tit

[Flea Man]

What I like is that pulls you up Dan for acting like a cock, and he's possibly the biggest cock on the British :deal

[thewinfella]

:|:|:|:|:|

Dry your eyes bellpot.

You did the thread to ask who thought what ?? Then you should have done the poll. My guesses are you found it too hard and probably couldn't do one. Either that or you knew that this was gonna be a one sided affair and didn't want to be made to look stupid. Even Flea who doesn't like Floyd has agreed that Floyd has the better record.

Flea's a very good poster and knows his stuff. Calzaghe would MAYBE break into the top 100 but not having him in there is not a raging travesty in anyones opinions.

The Eubank point of Gaz's is a well known point.

You are either on a wind up or you genuinely know nothing about the sport that you talk of. I'm presuming that you fall under the 'latter' of those choices as I haven't seen anything to suggest humour in your posts.

I'll direct you for future reference :good

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

IMO the poll is a no brainer , the majority of boxing fans would pick Floyd over Calzaghe at a first glance , thats not debatable .

However also IMO what is debatable , is that if you actually break the lists down , and look at the fighters they have faced , there really isnt that much difference , thats just my opinion .

All you have done is picked and re quoted other posters and looked to pick holes in what ive said and not actually backed up any of your arguments !!!!! :hi:

[Flea Man]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Chill flea dick ,

Look man , your an older fight fan therefore your ATG list contains the older fighters , but boxing has evolved man , fighters are better now than they were years ago its just as simple as that .

Yes they havent fought 200 fights or they dont go through the weight divisions like a Taz mainian devil , but technically , and physically boxing has evolved 10 fold .

And Calzaghe not being considered in the AT top 100 is not stupid , not dum or even crazy , its just wrong !!!!!!!

Sorry, do you know my criteria???? Do you know what I'm 'an fan of' (how that comes into an objective ATG lsit I don't know)

No, so stfu.

[thewinfella]

Sorry, do you know my criteria????

No, so stfu.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

You fuckin kill me man !!!!!!!

Maybe you should work for HBO or something mate .

[thewinfella]

He's probably younger than you you tit

Im 26 im betting my life he's in his 40's , or he has been subjected to 1000's of DVD's by his Grandad before he was 12 !!!!!!! 1 or the other .

:lol::lol::lol:

Are you two gay ?????

[Dan684]

Im 26 im betting my life he's in his 40's , or he has been subjected to 1000's of DVD's by his Grandad before he was 12 !!!!!!! 1 or the other .

:lol::lol::lol:

Are you two gay ?????

Yeah thats what we are, we are gay ?

I've met him at the froch fight you imbecile. I'm 26 and he's younger than me.

Did you not get my link ??? I'll repost it

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[thewinfella]

Yeah thats what we are, we are gay ?

I've met him at the froch fight you imbecile. I'm 26 and he's younger than me.

Did you not get my link ??? I'll repost it

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

OMFG !!!!! thats serioulsy serioulsy sad , you had nobody to go the fight with so you and flea dick hooked up on ESB !!!!!!!!!

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

You 2 are fuckin great im in peices here !!!!!!!!!! , on the link thanks but no thanks . :hi:

[Dan684]

Yeah thats what happened too, I have no mates :good

[Flea Man]

Im 26 im betting my life he's in his 40's , or he has been subjected to 1000's of DVD's by his Grandad before he was 12 !!!!!!! 1 or the other .

:lol::lol::lol:

Are you two gay ?????

Nope, I watch a lot of boxing because I love the sport.

My Granddads dead (and was never much of a fan) and I'm 21.

[LHL]

I thought some general posters were bad fuck me this guys pathetic

[Flea Man]

Yeah thats what happened too, I have no mates :good

Even though you had loads mates wiv ya:lol:

I got loadsa mates...just not any that were fans of Frochy.

[Flea Man]

I thought some general posters were bad fuck me this guys pathetic

:deal

A guaranteed Boxrecer and utter imbecile.

[Dan684]

I just wouldn't bother lads :good

The point of his thread has failed and now he's started with this crap

[Grant1]

You are a seriously boring poster on this forum , you come with 1 line shit comments with no facts !!!!!!

I didnt want to a poll dick head , if you wanna poll fuckin post it yourself !!!!!



Da truth :deal

[Grant1]

who da fuck do you think you're calling Flea Dick you cheeky little cunt?!?!?



:lol:

[dragor]

I explain shortly

Mayweather beat 14th world champion , Calzaghe 7th

thank you

[El Cepillo]

Mayweather's is clearly better and there is a big difference.

[Flea Man]

Mayweather continues to be overrated.

[Flea Man]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Chill flea dick ,

Look man , your an older fight fan therefore your ATG list contains the older fighters , but boxing has evolved man , fighters are better now than they were years ago its just as simple as that .

Yes they havent fought 200 fights or they dont go through the weight divisions like a Taz mainian devil , but technically , and physically boxing has evolved 10 fold .

And Calzaghe not being considered in the AT top 100 is not stupid , not dum or even crazy , its just wrong !!!!!!!

BOLD: Sure, Joe Louis was shit:deal

LINED: I'd actually say there's a whole lot more weight-jumping nowadays due to there being a much larger number of weight classes and useless 'titles' to grab. Physically eveolved?!!?!? Look at Joe Gans' physique, and figure that he had to make weight ON THE DAY maybe once a month, and Gans is a figther who on film doesn't look that impressive.

Think of the gloves they had to wear. They musta been tough, surely?

Then you start to see how they worked. You're telling me this:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


Wouldn't be difficult for a fighter from any era? If you say not then you're a f'n moron, oh know wait, you are.

On another note, how would our pampered fighters of today fare in a land where they had to weigh in on the same day, use smaller gloves (Calzaghe would be FUCKED with his hands) and fight very regularly, often giving up weight and with far less strict referees.

I think that boxing has regressed rather than progressed.

Wonder what you'll reply with, something original like, Fleadick:lol:

Knobhead.

[kosaros]

I thought some general posters were bad fuck me this guys pathetic

:lol: That's what I was thinking.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

If this thread had any influence on the TS then I am sorry :yep

Calzaghe is possibly a top 120-150 fighter of all-time - I don't think he is top 100 material.

[Flea Man]

:lol: That's what I was thinking.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

If this thread had any influence on the TS then I am sorry :yep

Calzaghe is possibly a top 120-150 fighter of all-time - I don't think he is top 100 material.

Where would you have Floyd if he retired today Kos? And do you think there's anyone in my list (the page before I feel) that Floyd has achieved more than/is better than?

[kosaros]

Where would you have Floyd if he retired today Kos? And do you think there's anyone in my list (the page before I feel) that Floyd has achieved more than/is better than?

Possibly about 70-80 for Mayweather.

I had a glance at your list and although I'm no expert on the older fighters, no-one stood out as having done less than Mayweather. Maybe his record is comparable to RJJ's, but I still think RJJ trumps him in both his record and H2H ability.

[Flea Man]

Possibly about 70-80 for Mayweather.

I had a glance at your list and although I'm no expert on the older fighters, no-one stood out as having done less than Mayweather. Maybe his record is comparable to RJJ's, but I still think RJJ trumps him in both his record and H2H ability.

Glad to see there are some sane minds around:D:good

[s23041983]

WOULD BE ASWELL ADDING MOSELEY AND PAC TO PBF RESUME CAUSE THOSE FIGHTS WILL BE IN THE BAG,,NOONE ON EARTH HAS THE SKILLS THAT GUY HAS..END OF...CALZAGHE NEVER DUCKED ANYONE THOUGH AND IS THE BEST BRITISH FIGHTER EVER IMO:finger5:finger5
this is the most sensible post i have EVER read on esb :good

[icemax]

this is the most sensible post i have EVER read on esb :good

The best british fighter ever? FFS :-(

[Dan684]

The most sensible post on ESB contains the sentence "CALZAGHE NEVER DUCKED ANYONE THOUGH AND IS THE BEST BRITISH FIGHTER EVER IMO"

I dont know if that makes you or him the bigger cretin :huh

[Beeston Brawler]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


:hi:

[thewinfella]

BOLD: Sure, Joe Louis was shit:deal

LINED: I'd actually say there's a whole lot more weight-jumping nowadays due to there being a much larger number of weight classes and useless 'titles' to grab. Physically eveolved?!!?!? Look at Joe Gans' physique, and figure that he had to make weight ON THE DAY maybe once a month, and Gans is a figther who on film doesn't look that impressive.

Think of the gloves they had to wear. They musta been tough, surely?

Then you start to see how they worked. You're telling me this:
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


Wouldn't be difficult for a fighter from any era? If you say not then you're a f'n moron, oh know wait, you are.

On another note, how would our pampered fighters of today fare in a land where they had to weigh in on the same day, use smaller gloves (Calzaghe would be FUCKED with his hands) and fight very regularly, often giving up weight and with far less strict referees.

I think that boxing has regressed rather than progressed.

Wonder what you'll reply with, something original like, Fleadick:lol:

Knobhead.

Look man , you like watching the old tapes when fighters threw punches from there waist , you like the fact they fought on with broken jaws and broken necks , ok i get it !!!!!! , like i said you like the sports history .

Well im not such a fan of the old times , i actually think its like watching a street fight with a referee in between them , i like the technicalities of the modern game , i like the cat and mouse of watching two world class fighters applying there trades .

To say boxing has not evolved in the techincal area is fuckin crazy i mean absolutley fuckin crazy , your right in saying that the modern fighters would struggle in yesterdays conditions but lets reverse that and put the old style fighters in with todays top class fighters in these conditions , fuck it aint worth thinkin about !!!!!!!!

I am not one of these people who thinks that because a fighter had 200 fights , or fought for 50 world titles or fought in 11 different weight classes he has to rank all time higher than todays fighters , because i am a realist and i look back and think man imagine what todays Welterweight champ would do to him etc etc etc , look i just dont like the old fighters , i am a fan of the modern day boxing era at world class level thats me thats just my opinion .

I did wanna scrap the insults and talk boxing with you , but i think you have taken my insults personally sorry mate but it aint personal !!!!!

[Flea Man]

Look man , you like watching the old tapes when fighters threw punches from there waist , you like the fact they fought on with broken jaws and broken necks , ok i get it !!!!!! , like i said you like the sports history .

Well im not such a fan of the old times , i actually think its like watching a street fight with a referee in between them , i like the technicalities of the modern game , i like the cat and mouse of watching two world class fighters applying there trades .

To say boxing has not evolved in the techincal area is fuckin crazy i mean absolutley fuckin crazy , your right in saying that the modern fighters would struggle in yesterdays conditions but lets reverse that and put the old style fighters in with todays top class fighters in these conditions , fuck it aint worth thinkin about !!!!!!!!

I am not one of these people who thinks that because a fighter had 200 fights , or fought for 50 world titles or fought in 11 different weight classes he has to rank all time higher than todays fighters , because i am a realist and i look back and think man imagine what todays Welterweight champ would do to him etc etc etc , look i just dont like the old fighters , i am a fan of the modern day boxing era at world class level thats me thats just my opinion .

I did wanna scrap the insults and talk boxing with you , but i think you have taken my insults personally sorry mate but it aint personal !!!!!

Did you bother watching the above footage? Technically inferior? No.

When did I say I 'preferred it'? You asked me how Calzaghe couldn't make the top 100, I told you, despite you disliking the aesthetics these fighters did more and deserve a higher standing in a top 100.

[s23041983]

The best british fighter ever? FFS :-(
well I think so anyway.... cant blame me, i AM a caslzaghe fan :nut

[Flea Man]

well I think so anyway.... cant blame me, i AM a caslzaghe fan :nut

And an ill-informed one:deal

[thewinfella]

Did you bother watching the above footage? Technically inferior? No.

When did I say I 'preferred it'? You asked me how Calzaghe couldn't make the top 100, I told you, despite you disliking the aesthetics these fighters did more and deserve a higher standing in a top 100.

In the morale world yes they did i agree with you !!!!!

But this is todays boxing , not yesterdays , and boxing should be judged on your skill , your ability as a boxer , not how many fights you stood and banged for 30 or more rounds , or how many times you fought through a fractured skull , this aint street fighting this is boxing big man , hit and not be hit , the sweet science etc etc etc etc etc !!!!!!!!!!!

[D-MAC]

Mayweather has the superior resume, and while there may not be a massive gap between the two, there is enough of a gap to dispel the need for a direct comparison to decide who has the better one.

[THE KNUCKLE]

The best british fighter ever? FFS :-(
WHO HAD A BETTER CAREER THAN CALZAGHE IN BRITISHBOXING KNOW ALL.......13 YEARS UNBEATEN AS A PRO AND GOT OUT AT THE RIGHT TIME....GIVE THE GUY CREDIT WHERE ITS DUE M8....DONT START WITH (HE FOUGHT HOPKINS AND JONES WHEN THEY WERE OVER THE HILL):tong

[s23041983]

And an ill-informed one:deal
why's that?

[TFFP]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


:hi:
:rofl:rofl:rofl

A new one. Fantastic.

[TFFP]

Look man , you like watching the old tapes when fighters threw punches from there waist , you like the fact they fought on with broken jaws and broken necks , ok i get it !!!!!! , like i said you like the sports history .
What are you referring to here? Are you trying to suggest that only contemporary fighters have boxing technique and all older fighters throw punches from their waste? That is about as convincing an argument as me citing Ponce De Leon or Andrade as an example of how all current fighters are brawlers with no skill.

Well im not such a fan of the old times , i actually think its like watching a street fight with a referee in between them , i like the technicalities of the modern game , i like the cat and mouse of watching two world class fighters applying there trades .
This is pure stereotyped garbage. There are brawlers and technicians in every era. Sugar Ray Robinson was in his prime 60 years ago. Has he got no skill? How did Archie Moore fight on past 40 when he has no skill? He should have been shot to bits at this point. Joe Louis has no skill? Ezzard Charles?

To say boxing has not evolved in the techincal area is fuckin crazy i mean absolutley fuckin crazy , your right in saying that the modern fighters would struggle in yesterdays conditions but lets reverse that and put the old style fighters in with todays top class fighters in these conditions , fuck it aint worth thinkin about !!!!!!!!
Boxing technique has not changed dramatically over the last 50-60 years. If you are talking about fighters from 1910 of course there is a difference. That is why generally people talk about pre-modern and post-modern and the cut off is usually the Ray Robinson era. If you really think todays fighters are much better than him because they have a tin of whey or creatine I don't know what to say.

I am not one of these people who thinks that because a fighter had 200 fights , or fought for 50 world titles or fought in 11 different weight classes he has to rank all time higher than todays fighters , because i am a realist and i look back and think man imagine what todays Welterweight champ would do to him etc etc etc , look i just dont like the old fighters , i am a fan of the modern day boxing era at world class level thats me thats just my opinion .
So by your logic does the average world champion of today rank above a guy that has fought for '50 world titles' or '11 different weight categories' (your words) just because you have this idea that all todays fighters are better? That is hardly a fair way to rank fighters. It's like having Federer, Sampras, Agassi, Nadal etc all making the greatest tennis players list and Rod Laver down in 30th because he played in a different era and probably couldn't compete. The circumstances are completely different, even if you think Joe Calzaghe beats Bob Fitzsimmons, Fitzsimmons has greater achievements in his own era which counts for a lot more than perceived H2H greatness which is completely subjective by the way.

[icemax]

WHO HAD A BETTER CAREER THAN CALZAGHE IN BRITISHBOXING KNOW ALL.......13 YEARS UNBEATEN AS A PRO AND GOT OUT AT THE RIGHT TIME....GIVE THE GUY CREDIT WHERE ITS DUE M8....DONT START WITH (HE FOUGHT HOPKINS AND JONES WHEN THEY WERE OVER THE HILL):tong

He's not even the best Welsh fighter ever, knobcheese

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Fact of the matter is that he got taken to the wire by an over the hill Hopkins, and should be thoroughly ashamed to have cherry picked Jones at the time that he knew 100% that he could beat him. If you think that your view is any way widely held on here then you are an idiot

[Flea Man]

What are you referring to here? Are you trying to suggest that only contemporary fighters have boxing technique and all older fighters throw punches from their waste? That is about as convincing an argument as me citing Ponce De Leon or Andrade as an example of how all current fighters are brawlers with no skill.


This is pure stereotyped garbage. There are brawlers and technicians in every era. Sugar Ray Robinson was in his prime 60 years ago. Has he got no skill? How did Archie Moore fight on past 40 when he has no skill? He should have been shot to bits at this point. Joe Louis has no skill? Ezzard Charles?


Boxing technique has not changed dramatically over the last 50-60 years. If you are talking about fighters from 1910 of course there is a difference. That is why generally people talk about pre-modern and post-modern and the cut off is usually the Ray Robinson era. If you really think todays fighters are much better than him because they have a tin of whey or creatine I don't know what to say.


So by your logic does the average world champion of today rank above a guy that has fought for '50 world titles' or '11 different weight categories' (your words) just because you have this idea that all todays fighters are better? That is hardly a fair way to rank fighters. It's like having Federer, Sampras, Agassi, Nadal etc all making the greatest tennis players list and Rod Laver down in 30th because he played in a different era and probably couldn't compete. The circumstances are completely different, even if you think Joe Calzaghe beats Bob Fitzsimmons, Fitzsimmons has greater achievements in his own era which counts for a lot more than perceived H2H greatness which is completely subjective by the way.

Exactly.

I can't see a cut-off point bar the excessive clinching. I mean Tunney, Louis, Loughran, all great indications of fighters that would compete in ANY era IMO.

Thewinfella just doesn't know what he's on about, nor is intelligent enough to notice the nuances in black and white footage.

[s23041983]

He's not even the best Welsh fighter ever, knobcheese

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Fact of the matter is that he got taken to the wire by an over the hill Hopkins, and should be thoroughly ashamed to have cherry picked Jones at the time that he knew 100% that he could beat him. If you think that your view is any way widely held on here then you are an idiot
everybody forgets that calzaghe was over the hill too... AND with mashed up hands!

[D-MAC]

everybody forgets that calzaghe was over the hill too... AND with mashed up hands!

Yeah, but there's "over the hill" and then there's "over the hill Jones Jr style"; Jones had nothing left. Hell, I was more excited at the prospect of Khan-Salita than I was about Calzaghe-Jones.

[s23041983]

Yeah, but there's "over the hill" and then there's "over the hill Jones Jr style"; Jones had nothing left. Hell, I was more excited at the prospect of Khan-Salita than I was about Calzaghe-Jones.
that fight was all about money for both fighters. i must admit i wasnt too excited about that one myself.

[TommyV]

Eubank - proven world class SMW , the then world champion , maybe a little past his best .

A little past his best? Wrong. He'd already lost to Collins twice by this point and was struggling with the wait. He was past his prime, there's no 'maybe' or 'a little past his best' about it.

Woodhall - A good domestic fight for a world title which proved Woodhall did not belong at world level

Exactly. Woodhall was never a top name, so this doesn't do much for Calzaghe's legacy or resumé.

Reid - Reid in his prime gave Calzaghe the biggest problem of his whole career , not Joe's best performance .

Yep. And Reid - while a very handy fighter and often under-rated at 168 - isn't exactly a top-tier elite fighter either. Some argue Joe may of actually lost this fight, though I disagree. He struggled though.

Bika - Another untidy win against a genuine world class SMW who still sits in the top 8 - 5 fighters in the world .

Bare in mind this was before Bika developed into the fighter he is today, although he still hasn't really beaten anybody. Joe struggled in this fight aswell, mainly though dirty tactics it must be said, but he was roughed up, frustrated and taken out of his element and lost probably 4 rounds.

Lacy - Un defeated Lacy was looking un stoppable and Calzaghe completley dominated him , he never looked the same after that .

Brilliant performance against what turned out to be an average performance. Lacy was nothing but a prospect with a belt on the rise. He hadn't established himself as an elite fighter because he never fought or beat one. Had massive problems with his shoulder and looked out-of-soughts in the ring that night. Over-rated win by you here.

Kessler - The best Mikkel Kessler anybody @167 has ever fought and Calzaghe served up a boxing lesson and unified the division . By far a career best win .

I agree. But Kessler has since been shown to be a little bit up-right and rigid. Technically solid if predictable and unthrilling. I think he took 4 rounds off Joe, 3 at least, so it wasn't a 'boxing lesson' overall although in spurts it was. But it was a comfortable win.

Hopkins - Calzaghe allowed Hopkins to fight his fight and it looked scrappy but Calzaghe won the fight clearly in most people's eyes , either way a genuine challenger at a higher weight class

I thought Joe may of actually lost this fight. I scored it to him 114-113 the first time, but have subsequently watched it twice and I scored it 114-113 to Hopkins, though I don't have my actual scorecard.

He struggled badly here with a guy who was past prime but admittedly still world class. However stylistically, Joe should of been more comfortable. Jermain Taylor had already 'officially' beaten Hopkins twice in a similar method, coming forward with speed and plenty of punches. Stylistically Joe had a big advantage here.

Jones - the name looks good but we all Jones was shot .

Exactly. Does nothing for his legacy either. Jones is barely fringe world-level at this point.

Mayweather's notable wins :

Corrales - Ranked top 5 P4P , 34 and 0 with 34 stoppages and Floyd dominated , blitzing him in a career best win .

It is what it says on the tin. This alone is better than any Calzaghe win.

Castillo 1 - Floyd hometown decision , disgrace enough said .

It wasn't a home-town decision at all. It was a close fight, you can't definately say that Mayweather lost. Besides, he had a torn rotator cuff and carried on fighting with an injury that others have quit with.

Castillo 2 - Floyd wins a close fight by decision , very good win goes 1 & 1 with JLC .

And here is where he puts it right. And it wasn't really a close fight. I suggest you go and watch the fight again. Floyd was a clear victor here, although the scorecards strangely were closer than the first fight. This win is better than any of Joe's.

Gatti - A blown up LW , served on a platter for Floyd @147 .

Gatti was past his best if still a belt holder, yes. And the fight wasn't at 147. I suggest you go and do your homework. Floyd's performance was clinical but against a past prime opponent.

Judah - A genuine win at the time for Floyd did have some problems with Judah's rear hand but ran out comfortable winner

Judah was still a very good fighter and a fight Floyd didn't have to take given he had lost the undisputed title. Everybody has problems with Zab's combination of speed, power, accuracy and the southpaw element to start with, and Floyd struggled to deal with that for 2, maybe 3 rounds before taking control.

Hatton - Fighting a smaller man again , ran for most of the fight and worked Hatton out around the 6th from that point dominated and eventually stopped the LWW champ @147 .

He didn't 'run' for most of the fight. Stop talking out of your arse. Number one, it's called lateral movement, and two, it's a boxing skill for reason. Floyd wasn't going to fight inside with Hatton, why would he take away his advantages by fighting Hatton's fight?

De La Hoya - Stepping up in weight against a well over the hill De La Hoya , got a close SD .

Close SD. Looking at Boxrec again? De La Hoya at this point was past his prime no doubt, but still a capable 154lber. I think you are getting confused with the 147, dead-at-the-weight version that fought Pacquiao. De La Hoya was still the #1 light-middle, and a world-class fighter.

Marquez - A blown up LW again served up ripely for Floyd again @147 (after he ignored the CW limit.

Yes he was a lightweight and that takes a lot of gloss away from the win, but the performance after a 2 year lay-off was outstanding and Marquez was still a top 3 fighter P4P. But yes, he was overmatched.

-

Now here's a few fights you seem to have left-off looking at Floyd's resumé:

Genaro Hernandez - The top 130'lber in the world and Floyd's first ever title fight. Hernandez was a genuinely good fight, B+ level in my estimation. A dominant performance from a young Floyd as he took pretty much every minute of the fight on fought to making Hernandez quit on his stool.

Carlos Baldomir - For the majority of his career a C+ level fight, but in a rich vain of form having beaten Rodriguez, Judah and Gatti in a row to the point where he was operating as a B+ level fighter at his full potentially. Dominating performance by Floyd to become the welterweight king and take his 5 title in a 4th different weight class.

Carlos Hernandez - Again not a great name, but a solid one. Hernandez was the Golden Boy of El Salvador and went on beat Steve Forbes and take his IBF super-featherweight title. Always had a close fight with Jesus Chavez and fought Erik Morales going the distance.

Jesus Chavez - A very tough fighter who Floyd brawled with often during the fight, fighting Chavez own fight, and ultimately beating him at his own game. Later became a world champion in that tragic fight with Leavander Johnson.

DeMarcus Corley - Smooth operating southpaw who apparently gave Floyd a tough fight, merely because he landed a very good right hook on Floyd, that Mayweather took well. Dominated from then on. Corley was the former WBO champ and had just lost a very close split-decision to Zab Judah.

Angel Manfredy - Again, not a great name, but a solid one and a fighter who was unfortunately not to win a world title. Had just sliced open Arturo Gatti and went on to give Stevie Johnston a very competitive fight in his world title challenge a year or so later.

-

These aren't great names, but you've included the likes of Richie Woodhall on Calzaghe's and these guys are on par with him at least. You should in hindsight of included Byron Mitchell who was a decent fighter and a solid win for Calzaghe, but this isn't even close. Mayweather has the far better, more rounded resumé and the greater accomplishments.

[D-MAC]

Great wee breakdown there Tommy, unbiased and to the point.:good

[TommyV]

this is the most sensible post i have EVER read on esb :good

How long have you been hear, 10 minutes? Calzaghe wasn't the best British fighter ever, hell he wasn't even the best Welsh fighter ever. And he shamelessly ducked Glen Johnson at 168 twice.

[Flea Man]

Basically, there have a massive bunch of fighters that are superior in skill AND resume (and both) to Floyd and Calzaghe.

[s23041983]

How long have you been hear, 10 minutes? Calzaghe wasn't the best British fighter ever, hell he wasn't even the best Welsh fighter ever. And he shamelessly ducked Glen Johnson at 168 twice.
so who would you say is the best in britain ever?:think

[Flea Man]

so who would you say is the best in britain ever?:think

Jim Driscoll (best Welsh fighter ever, also looks better on film than Calzaghe so no 'oh he's old fashioned' please), Ted Kid Lewis, Bob Fitzsimmons, Lennox Lewis, Benny Lynch, Ken Buchanan........all higher in my alltime list.

[GazOC]

"Shamelessly ducked" makes a come back eh?

[s23041983]

its crazy how people say the old fighters were better boxers than the modern ones. thats basically saying we have gone backwards and become worse at it, which is total nonsense. its like saying boxing is the only sport where we havent progressed. :huh

[TommyV]

so who would you say is the best in britain ever?:think

Bob Fitzsimmons. Jim Driscoll is better than Calzaghe aswell, which means Calzaghe isn't even the greatest Welshman of all-time in the boxing.

[TommyV]

its crazy how people say the old fighters were better boxers than the modern ones. thats basically saying we have gone backwards and become worse at it, which is total nonsense. its like saying boxing is the only sport where we havent progressed. :huh

H2H Fitzsimmons would of knocked Calzaghe out at 168 or 175, that's all you need to know. And achievement wise, being the undisputed MW, LHW and HW champion is a better achievement then 10 years of holding the least prestigous 'world title' in boxing hostage. :good

[s23041983]

H2H Fitzsimmons would of knocked Calzaghe out at 168 or 175, that's all you need to know. And achievement wise, being the undisputed MW, LHW and HW champion is a better achievement then 10 years of holding the least prestigous 'world title' in boxing hostage. :good
nobody has ever knocked him out but you think that fitzimmons would have? there are many different things to take into consideration when comapring older fighters to more modern ones... the level of opposition at the time, the standard of boxing of that era (not how tough they are, i mean how well they box, which means hitting while not being hit), the gloves, the ring size, everything. in my opinion, the technique and skill (defensive and offensive) of most modern boxers would prevail against most older boxers.

[BadJuju83]

Mayweather has a better resume, no doubt.


Couple of things though Tommy, Lacy didnt hurt his shoulder till the 2nd round of the Tsypko fight, he was as good as he could be that night against Calzaghe.

Also doubting the legitimacy of Calzaghe's win over Hop at the same time as calling Taylor's victories "Official" is a bit harsh.

[TommyV]

nobody has ever knocked him out but you think that fitzimmons would have? there are many different things to take into consideration when comapring older fighters to more modern ones... the level of opposition at the time, the standard of boxing of that era (not how tough they are, i mean how well they box, which means hitting while not being hit), the gloves, the ring size, everything. in my opinion, the technique and skill (defensive and offensive) of most modern boxers would prevail against most older boxers.

Fitzsimmons is a far, far, far bigger puncher than anybody Calzaghe has ever faced, not to mention he hit with laser-like accuracy & precision. I am not going into a modern v classic boxer's debate with you. If you want to do that, go to the Classic forum.

[TommyV]

Mayweather has a better resume, no doubt.


Couple of things though Tommy, Lacy didnt hurt his shoulder till the 2nd round of the Tsypko fight, he was as good as he could be that night against Calzaghe.

Also doubting the legitimacy of Calzaghe's win over Hop at the same time as calling Taylor's victories "Official" is a bit harsh.

Hence the marks around official. I don't think he beat Hopkins in the 2nd fight; he may of edged the first. Lacy didn't look right in the ring that night, and was subsequently shown to be fairly average.

[Flea Man]

nobody has ever knocked him out but you think that fitzimmons would have? there are many different things to take into consideration when comapring older fighters to more modern ones... the level of opposition at the time, the standard of boxing of that era (not how tough they are, i mean how well they box, which means hitting while not being hit), the gloves, the ring size, everything. in my opinion, the technique and skill (defensive and offensive) of most modern boxers would prevail against most older boxers.

Watch the Jim Driscoll footage on YouTube then say Calzaghe was better technically.

[Flea Man]

Also, no ones saying we've regressed technically, more that fighters back then had to fight everyone (pretty much) and be consistent over many more fights, with smaller gloves and more lenient referees.

Unless you think bone density has improved over a hundred or so years those guys were tough as Hell, and it's not like Calzaghe had a 'modernstyle' anyway.

Two obvious examples: Carl Froch and Ricardo Mayorga. If they can succeed (to an extent ) why do old timers not deserve accolades? Especially when they weren't 'technically inferior' and arguably had much tougher careers.

[Casamayor122]

It is what it says on the tin. This alone is better than any Calzaghe win.
Corrales was a B level boxer with a huge size advantage at 130 and 135. His only big win against Castillo was tainted by the spitting of the mouthpiece. He was getting outboxed by Freitas before he stopped him. His SD win over Casamayor was a robbery. Totally outclassed and put on his ass. The most dominant performance by Casa in their trilogy.

And here is where he puts it right. And it wasn't really a close fight. I suggest you go and watch the fight again. Floyd was a clear victor here, although the scorecards strangely were closer than the first fight. This win is better than any of Joe's.



He definitely lost the 1st fight. How many times have we heard those injury excuses after a sub-par performance by a boxer?
1. Castillo was beaten at every weight he fought at(FW stoppedX2, SFW stopped, LW knocked out, JWW knocked out, WW)
2. LW was his best weight. Good if unspectacular MD win and a draw against the small but tough and gutsy Johnston. Decent wins over Lazcano & Diaz. Controversial SD win over Casamayor. All in all two runs as WBC LW champion with a combined total of 5 defenses. The only title he held in his career.
3. Average JWW. A KO win against a LW Corrales. Gift win against Ngoudjo and he was brutalized by Hatton in 4 rounds.

Not the legendary boxer Floyd fans claim him to be. He was just Mayweather's Junior Jones, Iran Barkley etc.

Gatti was past his best if still a belt holder, yes. And the fight wasn't at 147. I suggest you go and do your homework. Floyd's performance was clinical but against a past prime opponent.

A decent win a yes a completely dominant performance by Floyd.

Judah was still a very good fighter and a fight Floyd didn't have to take given he had lost the undisputed title. Everybody has problems with Zab's combination of speed, power, accuracy and the southpaw element to start with, and Floyd struggled to deal with that for 2, maybe 3 rounds before taking control.

Judah won 4 rounds (1,2,3,12) with a KD in the 3rd round. Good win but Judah was coming off a loss.

Close SD. Looking at Boxrec again? De La Hoya at this point was past his prime no doubt, but still a capable 154lber. I think you are getting confused with the 147, dead-at-the-weight version that fought Pacquiao. De La Hoya was still the #1 light-middle, and a world-class fighter.

His best win without a doubt. Should have been a UD.



Genaro Hernandez - The top 130'lber in the world and Floyd's first ever title fight. Hernandez was a genuinely good fight, B+ level in my estimation. A dominant performance from a young Floyd as he took pretty much every minute of the fight on fought to making Hernandez quit on his stool.


One of his better wins.

DeMarcus Corley - Smooth operating southpaw who apparently gave Floyd a tough fight, merely because he landed a very good right hook on Floyd, that Mayweather took well. Dominated from then on. Corley was the former WBO champ and had just lost a very close split-decision to Zab Judah.

Stop looking at box rec and watch the fights. Judah put Corley on his ass and won a clear UD when the latter was a champion. Floyd was badly hurt by a Corley that had just lost to Judah.

[BadJuju83]

Hence the marks around official. I don't think he beat Hopkins in the 2nd fight; he may of edged the first. Lacy didn't look right in the ring that night, and was subsequently shown to be fairly average.

Fair do's, I thought Hop took the first but the point was it was close, you marked the official fair enough.

Lacy looked as good as Calzaghe let him. There was no physical problem whatsover. If he bottled it, tough. He was never as good as he was hyped to be but the version Calzaghe faced was as good as it got.

[icemax]

the gloves, the ring size, everything.

4oz gloves means two things...Calzaghes hands would have crumbled ,in other words he would have had to amend his style, and his chin would have been tested like never before...durability is one area where fighters 60 or 70 years ago have a definite advantage, 4oz gloves and 15 or 20 round championship fights seperate the men from the boys.

[icemax]

its crazy how people say the old fighters were better boxers than the modern ones. thats basically saying we have gone backwards and become worse at it, which is total nonsense. its like saying boxing is the only sport where we havent progressed. :huh

I don't think that people actually do say that. What people do know is that in years past if a fighter won a world title he had to beat the best in the world to do so as there was only one world title. If there had been only one world title at 168 when Calzaghe was campaigning he wouldn't have been world champ ever, never mind holding it for ten years

[Beeston Brawler]

That's one concession I do make regarding the old timers.

In order to win the world title you had to be fucking good, to hold it for ten years you'd be an absolute superstar.

These days, fighters and promoters (especially British ones) talk about waiting for a while for a beatable champion - FFS, you are either ready or you arent!

But the one thing I reject more than any other is the utter nonsense when people suggest that today's elite couldn't cope back in the earlier days. Great sportsmen would adapt..... Billy Bremner wouldn't smoke 30 a day and belt people..... someone like Floyd Mayweather might have benefitted from judges that actually scored on boxing technique rather than charging forward and windmilling.

The only insurmountable sporting record is that held by Don Bradman :deal

[icemax]

The only insurmountable sporting record is that held by Don Bradman :deal

I always think that he played a bit cross bat...but the old cunts tell me that that is as a consequence of playing on uncovered tracks :think

[BadJuju83]

I don't think that people actually do say that. What people do know is that in years past if a fighter won a world title he had to beat the best in the world to do so as there was only one world title. If there had been only one world title at 168 when Calzaghe was campaigning he wouldn't have been world champ ever, never mind holding it for ten years

How?

It would have forced an Ottke-Calzaghe fight in the late 90's thats all.

Are you saying Ottke beats Calzaghe?. Or someone else who fought there between 97-07.

If anything its the opposite, a one belt system in the SMW division between those years would have seen Calzaghe as an Undisputed champ, no 97-05 so called bore fest defenses, only mando's.

[Dan684]

Calzaghe sucks

That is all :deal

[icemax]

How?

It would have forced an Ottke-Calzaghe fight in the late 90's thats all.

Are you saying Ottke beats Calzaghe?. Or someone else who fought there between 97-07.

If anything its the opposite, a one belt system in the SMW division between those years would have seen Calzaghe as an Undisputed champ, no 97-05 so called bore fest defenses, only mando's.

Sorry, I didn't put across very well what I actually meant. The old fighters could only campaign across 8 weight division...only 8 world champions. Calzaghe would have had to have mixed with all the decent LHs of his era and we know who dominated that division at the time...or are you saying that Calzaghe beats Jones, over 15 - 20 rounds with 4-5oz gloves?

[TommyV]

Stop looking at box rec and watch the fights. Judah put Corley on his ass and won a clear UD when the latter was a champion. Floyd was badly hurt by a Corley that had just lost to Judah.

Badly hurt? :lol:

And I have watched the fight, although admittedly not for a while. From what I remember, it was a relatively close but ultimately clear decision. One that was easy to score, but Corley wasn't exactly dominated. Regardless, Judah was beaten by Mayweather anyway, so spin it how you will, but Mayweather beat both those guys.

[BadJuju83]

Sorry, I didn't put across very well what I actually meant. The old fighters could only campaign across 8 weight division...only 8 world champions.

Calzaghe would have had to have mixed with all the decent LHs of his era and we know who dominated that division at the time...or are you saying that Calzaghe beats Jones, over 15 - 20 rounds with 4-5oz gloves?

No worries bud.

Fuck no. I think Calzaghe gives Jones his toughest night at 168 out of all who fought there under them regulations(modern) but still comes up short. At LH under those you stipulate, then no. As much as i think longer fights could suit Calzaghe in general, the gloves and the fact it's Roy is too much.

TBH at LH Calzaghe didnt leave much of an impression full stop as it stands. Could be age, but I dont think he adapted too well to the difference.

[essexboy]

Flea dick what the fuck in Gods name are you talking about !!!!!!

Calzaghe doesnt make the top 100 are you fuckin stupid ????? :patsch

Nope he just happens to know what hes talking about, whereas you appear to not have a clue.

[essexboy]

OMFG !!!!! thats serioulsy serioulsy sad , you had nobody to go the fight with so you and flea dick hooked up on ESB !!!!!!!!!

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

You 2 are fuckin great im in peices here !!!!!!!!!! , on the link thanks but no thanks . :hi:

You are the worst poster I've seen on here.

[essexboy]

WHO HAD A BETTER CAREER THAN CALZAGHE IN BRITISHBOXING KNOW ALL.......13 YEARS UNBEATEN AS A PRO AND GOT OUT AT THE RIGHT TIME....GIVE THE GUY CREDIT WHERE ITS DUE M8....DONT START WITH (HE FOUGHT HOPKINS AND JONES WHEN THEY WERE OVER THE HILL):tong

I spoke to soon.

[kosaros]

You are the worst poster I've seen on here.

You will enjoy this thread essexboy:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

:D

[essexboy]

You will enjoy this thread essexboy:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

:D

Cheers mate, I'll have a good read of that, the first few pages seem very entertaining. I love the way he keeps saying lets stop with the insults (which he started) and talk boxing. But you cant debate with someone as stubborn and ill-informed as that. I know the type, they're the worst as they have no desire to learn, they just want to shout their stupid opinions loudly and hope someone agrees with them. I know they shouldnt irritate me but they do.

[icemax]

No worries bud.

Fuck no. I think Calzaghe gives Jones his toughest night at 168 out of all who fought there under them regulations(modern) but still comes up short. At LH under those you stipulate, then no. As much as i think longer fights could suit Calzaghe in general, the gloves and the fact it's Roy is too much.

TBH at LH Calzaghe didnt leave much of an impression full stop as it stands. Could be age, but I dont think he adapted too well to the difference.

:good

[s23041983]

Watch the Jim Driscoll footage on YouTube then say Calzaghe was better technically.
ok ill concede that one! jim driscoll was good!! i also had a look at ted lewis, it said he won in every division from bantamweight up to heavyweight... were the weight divisions much different back then or something?

['Ben']

Not as much of a difference as many would believe I have to admit. It's an arguement I've brought up before myself. Mayweather still has the slighty more impressive CV.

[Flea Man]

I spoke to soon.

:lol:

[Flea Man]

ok ill concede that one! jim driscoll was good!! i also had a look at ted lewis, it said he won in every division from bantamweight up to heavyweight... were the weight divisions much different back then or something?

Yeah, there was only 8, and fighters fought often, sometimes giving up massive amounts of weight.

I believe Ted Lewis once fought for the European Heavyweight title:lol:

There is footage of him fighting George Carpentier, a former Welterweight who ended up fighting Jack Dempsey (amongst others) at Heavyweight.

So, to elaborate on my earlier point. Like any opponent, I think there are still fighters nowadays that could beat older fighters of course, styles make fights. But fighters from previous eras had harder careers and therefore had to prove themselves even moreso in my opinion.

And when people say 'they're so bad technically' I actually think in some cases it would make them very awkward opponents for 'modern' fighters.

And for those that think older fighters would get blown out of the water, I present you with this:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[TFFP]

I spoke to soon.
:lol:

[s23041983]

Yeah, there was only 8, and fighters fought often, sometimes giving up massive amounts of weight.

I believe Ted Lewis once fought for the European Heavyweight title:lol:

There is footage of him fighting George Carpentier, a former Welterweight who ended up fighting Jack Dempsey (amongst others) at Heavyweight.

So, to elaborate on my earlier point. Like any opponent, I think there are still fighters nowadays that could beat older fighters of course, styles make fights. But fighters from previous eras had harder careers and therefore had to prove themselves even moreso in my opinion.

And when people say 'they're so bad technically' I actually think in some cases it would make them very awkward opponents for 'modern' fighters.

And for those that think older fighters would get blown out of the water, I present you with this:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
well, ive had a lesson on boxing in this thread. nice one fleaman :good

[Flea Man]

I really hope I don't come across as pretentious though, I'm not trying to get on me high horse, only offering proof to the contrary belief that older fighters were technically inferior.

Whilst the vid I offered is not of a fighter with a conventional 'textbook' style, Canzoneri was a fighters who's style would work in ANY era, which is the reason I picked him. The whole 10 minutes is well worth watching :good

[brown bomber]

Is there a video where modern fighters were filmed on an old style camera?

[Flea Man]

I don't think that Canzoneri footage suffered from being 'sped up', nor do I think 'old cameras' enhance ability in an aesthetic sense. There are shit hot fighters now, they just don't have the depth in resume to be considered amongst the upper echelons of 'all time greats' in my opinion. There are obvious exceptions to the rule, Hopkins, Jones and Pac featuring quite high on my list.