Marciano v.s. Bowe ...

[he grant]

Taking the Board's current pulse ...

The Marciano of Walcott 1 v.s. the Bowe of Holyfield 1 ...

Who wins ?

[mr. magoo]

Rocky Marciano isn't beating Riddick Bowe.. And It has nothing to do with how many all time greats one beat over the other. Bowe would not only be by far, the largest and probably strongest man the Rock ever faced, but also had the best infighting game, along with a well proven chin and a fair amount of power to boot..

For the record, I rate Rocky Marciano in my top 5, whereas Bowe barely makes my top 15, but legacies and head to head match-ups are completely different animals.

[McGrain]

In a realworld trilogy, I would take Marciano to eek it out. If you're talking "in the lab", imagined perfect conditions then I would pick Bowe.

[Son of Gaul]

Taking the Board's current pulse ...

The Marciano of Walcott 1 v.s. the Bowe of Holyfield 1 ...

Who wins ?

I love the rock but...

Riddick Bowe by Manslaughter(RD6)

Bowe's too big, strong and too good at all the things that Marciano was good at.

[TommyV]

Bowe. Whenever the Rock gets inside, Bowe's inside skills compensate and he would merely work Rocky backwards. I don't see him stopping Bowe or being able to get his punches off inside long enough to outwork him either, so I can't conceivably see any weight for him to win this fight.

[Unforgiven]

It's a pick 'em fight.
I can see that version of Bowe giving Marciano an even worse beating than he gave Holyfield. On the other hand, if anyone's gonna hang in there like Holy did and slug right back like Holy did, then it's Rocky Marciano - and we shouldn't underestimate Rocky's punch. I wouldn't be surprised if a 185 pound Rocky slugged suitably enough harder than a 205-pound Holyfield to make the difference against Bowe.

[McGrain]

I'm satisfied that Marciano hit harder consistantly than Holyfield.

[easyLivin']

Bowe - no doubt about it. Big, strong, tough and skillfull at the same time - nothing like guys Rocky faced ;)

[Seamus]

I love the rock but...

Riddick Bowe by Manslaughter(RD6)

Bowe's too big, strong and too good at all the things that Marciano was good at.

Seconded. or thirded, or fourthed... whatever.

[Rubber Warrior]

The whole Bowe was great on the inside-thing has to be looked at beyond what he could do with a certain class of fighter. We never saw him stick it out inside with a big hitter. I believe if we did, we'd see some things that might make us think twice about how big and how strong Bowe is relative to Marciano...know what I mean.

If Bowe was smart, he'd use his size and longer reach to his advantage and try to out-box Marciano.

Not sold on sheer size and power beating Rocky.

[mr. magoo]

The whole Bowe was great on the inside-thing has to be looked at beyond what he could do with a certain class of fighter. We never saw him stick it out inside with a big hitter. I believe if we did, we'd see some things that might make us think twice about how big and how strong Bowe is relative to Marciano...know what I mean.

If Bowe was smart, he'd use his size and longer reach to his advantage and try to out-box Marciano.

Not sold on sheer size and power beating Rocky.

A 39 year old, 5'10" 188 lbs, Archie Moore had him decked in the first round, when fighting at close range. Yeah I know... Moore was an all time great, but I don't think that he had better physical tools than Bowe, and if Riddick had him in trouble, I doubt he'd let the Rock off the hook.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[RockysSplitNose]

It's a pick 'em fight.
I can see that version of Bowe giving Marciano an even worse beating than he gave Holyfield. On the other hand, if anyone's gonna hang in there like Holy did and slug right back like Holy did, then it's Rocky Marciano - and we shouldn't underestimate Rocky's punch. I wouldn't be surprised if a 185 pound Rocky slugged suitably enough harder than a 205-pound Holyfield to make the difference against Bowe.

I'm with Unforgiven on this one - I just think that Bowe seems to get a bit discouraged whenever a smaller guy starts to bully him. To be fair to Bowe it was his first world title fight and he could be forgiven for being a little over-awed to begin with - it was kind of a baptism of fire for him - in the early going Holyfield was hurting the big guy and was trying to match him for strength and was trying to out slug him every time they got into an exchange even though he was not in Marciano's league as a puncher - his problem I think was when he got in close he would just stay there - there was too much mauling and physical type stuff - whereas funnily enough that Marciano wouldn't stay in there - if you watch Marciano's fights he doesn't spend all the time on his opponents chest - he usually steps back out to come back at things from a different angle and his punching was much harder and much more instantly hurtful than Holyfield's and I think Bowe would also find Marciano much more awkward to hit and get to than Holyfield - Bowe's biggest question mark as a rule was his stamina and that was arguably Rock's best asset so over the distance I can see Riddick starting to look a bit sorry for himself especially if he comes in with the idea that he's going to beat this little guy easily - possibly even being stopped in the late stages

[PetethePrince]

A 39 year old, 5'10" 188 lbs, Archie Moore had him decked in the first round, when fighting at close range. Yeah I know... Moore was an all time great, but I don't think that he had better physical tools than Bowe, and if Riddick had him in trouble, I doubt he'd let the Rock off the hook.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Certainly not a peak Marciano, though.

Every fighter gets dropped. Frazier was down against Mike Bruce in this second fight for a count of 8, dropped by Bonavena twice in 1 round, and dropped by Foreman 8 times.

Dempsey KTFO by Flynn, dropped by Firpo and Tunney

The Holyfield that had trouble breathing dropped Bowe

Louis was dropped by Braddock, Galento, and KOed by Schemling

Holyfield dropped and KOed by Bowe

Tyson dropped by Holyfield, KOed by Douglas and Lewis

Ali dropped by Cooper, Jones (185 pound men not known for being huge hitters), and Frazier

Lewis KOed by McCall and Rahman

If you go right down the list. All fighters, especially Heavyweights have pretty much been downed or even KOed. Marciano was on the canvas less than 95% of the other HW fighters and less than most greats. Walcott hit him with a shot that topped Charles. Moore could punch, and Rocky didn't see it. Moore was KOing 210+ Heavyweights.

Bowe wins 6-7/10 times I think at the least. In a trilogy, if we replaced Marciano with Holyfield Marciano wins the second fight. I think Marciano is more equipped to slug it out in the in-fighting than Holyfeild. He punches like hell and he's durable enough. The added weight disadvantage hurts, but Rocky took some good clean shots from an old Louis, but a Louis that still could punch. Bowe will be huge trouble but if Rocky can smother his power, and if Bowe fights the wrong game-plan than I think he can win. Can Bowe really out-work Rocky? Maybe he hurts him, and puts him down of there. But does he finish? Rocky recovers great, and was never close to being KOed. But he was known to take big punishment when he had to. How much can he take? It's a tough fight, but I see no reason why it's impossible for Marciano to win. Though, realistically, I do favor Bowe for obvious reasons. But he would be more suited to fight on the out-side.

[choklab]

what in the hell did riddick bowe ever do to make all time great? his credentials suck. His whole career is based on one guy who he also lost to.
If we start rating guys on one fight buster douglas beat a better champion and he did everything beter than bowe that one night.
mike tyson was the best heavyweight in the world when buster knocked him out. Bowe only edged holyfield who if we remember nobody was compleatly sold on at that time since he struggled with cooper, holmes and foreman. evryone was saying "lets see how he gets on against the next real heavyweight" since douglas quit and cooper was a sub, holmes and foreman too old to test a real champ. bowe was just that next guy.
I dont want anyone squawking about how bowe knocked out holyfield the 3rd time, there was somethinhg seriously wrong with evander that night. he was having an asthma atack or something after bowe got up, I never did see a guy stop punching like that.
If you want to know what i think how bowe gets on with marciano think frazier v mathis.

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[RockysSplitNose]

what in the hell did riddick bowe ever do to make all time great? his credentials suck. His whole career is based on one guy who he also lost to.
If we start rating guys on one fight buster douglas beat a better champion and he did everything beter than bowe that one night.
mike tyson was the best heavyweight in the world when buster knocked him out. Bowe only edged holyfield who if we remember nobody was compleatly sold on at that time since he struggled with cooper, holmes and foreman. evryone was saying "lets see how he gets on against the next real heavyweight" since douglas quit and cooper was a sub, holmes and foreman too old to test a real champ. bowe was just that next guy.
I dont want anyone squawking about how bowe knocked out holyfield the 3rd time, there was somethinhg seriously wrong with evander that night. he was having an asthma atack or something after bowe got up, I never did see a guy stop punching like that.
If you want to know what i think how bowe gets on with marciano think frazier v mathis.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I agree with pretty much what you're saying - although what I would say is that I don't think anyone is saying that Bowe is necerssarily one of the elite heavyweights of all time - it's just that when in shape (ie no more than 235) and with something to prove he is no easy mark for anyone really - I think Riddick is a little better than Mathis - at the end of the day he did win the heavyweight title and in one of the most absorbing heavyweight title fights ever too (and when all is said and done Mathis didn't) - i know Riddick had his problems but for better or worse he was at one stage (even if for one night only) the best heavyweight in the world and for anyone to have done that in their time deserves respect - fair enough as soon as he had've fought Lennox I think the torch would've been passed again but for that night he was the undisputed heavyweight champion of the world

[choklab]

I agree with pretty much what you're saying - although what I would say is that I don't think anyone is saying that Bowe is necerssarily one of the elite heavyweights of all time - it's just that when in shape (ie no more than 235) and with something to prove he is no easy mark for anyone really - I think Riddick is a little better than Mathis - at the end of the day he did win the heavyweight title and in one of the most absorbing heavyweight title fights ever too (and when all is said and done Mathis didn't) - i know Riddick had his problems but for better or worse he was at one stage (even if for one night only) the best heavyweight in the world and for anyone to have done that in their time deserves respect - fair enough as soon as he had've fought Lennox I think the torch would've been passed again but for that night he was the undisputed heavyweight champion of the world
sure bowe was an undisputed champ. so was leon spinks. worthy and all that, I just think people got carried away with Bowe especialy since holyfields career panned out to be ATG material. I thought bowe lost against tubbs at the time also.

[MAG1965]

Taking the Board's current pulse ...

The Marciano of Walcott 1 v.s. the Bowe of Holyfield 1 ...

Who wins ?Marciano at his size vs. Bowe at his size means Bowe gets a knockout in the early rounds. It would almost look like a mismatch.

[ripcity]

Bowe would win by mid round stopage.

[choklab]

Bowe would win by mid round stopage.



bowe really did not do any beter than frank bruno against common foes. By beating hollyfield he only matched moorer, another guy who beat hollyfield as champ....Bowes fights against mathis, hide, tubbs and golata were not ATG material and he was in his peak then.

[Cachibatches]

A 39 year old, 5'10" 188 lbs, Archie Moore had him decked in the first round, when fighting at close range. Yeah I know... Moore was an all time great, but I don't think that he had better physical tools than Bowe, and if Riddick had him in trouble, I doubt he'd let the Rock off the hook.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Lets turn this around. Bowe had epic struggles agaisnt Holyfield who who had a great work rate like the Rock, but how did not hit nearly so hard.

I think Rock would put on 20-30 pounds and give Bowe a hell of a fight.

[lolb]

Can't see how Rocky can win this one. The size difference would be to much to overcome.

[Son of Gaul]

what in the hell did riddick bowe ever do to make all time great? his credentials suck. His whole career is based on one guy who he also lost to.
If we start rating guys on one fight buster douglas beat a better champion and he did everything beter than bowe that one night.
mike tyson was the best heavyweight in the world when buster knocked him out. Bowe only edged holyfield who if we remember nobody was compleatly sold on at that time since he struggled with cooper, holmes and foreman. evryone was saying "lets see how he gets on against the next real heavyweight" since douglas quit and cooper was a sub, holmes and foreman too old to test a real champ. bowe was just that next guy.
I dont want anyone squawking about how bowe knocked out holyfield the 3rd time, there was somethinhg seriously wrong with evander that night. he was having an asthma atack or something after bowe got up, I never did see a guy stop punching like that.
If you want to know what i think how bowe gets on with marciano think frazier v mathis.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

It's not that Riddick was great, it's that his physical tools are so far beyond Marciano's that it's really difficult to imagine this fight being competitive(in a vaccuum, which is how these matchups are conceptualized). It's not JUST that he was much bigger, much stronger, much longer and faster to boot but also that his level of competition was MUCH better.

[RockysSplitNose]

It's not that Riddick was great, it's that his physical tools are so far beyond Marciano's that it's really difficult to imagine this fight being competitive(in a vaccuum, which is how these matchups are conceptualized). It's not JUST that he was much bigger, much stronger, much longer and faster to boot but also that his level of competition was MUCH better.

:lol::lol::lol: congratulations - that last one was one of the funniest lines ever - who that Riddick Bowe fought was better than Walcott (fight I), Charles (fight I) and Archie Moore ???? - sorry but thats probably the most riddick-ulous quote yet on ESB Classic - plus how is Riddick faster i think you seriously need to go back and watch the films again :lol:

[laxpdx]

If Bowe uses his range and power to full ability here and doesn't hold back, I don't see why he can't KO Marciano. However, if Rock gets inside, it will be very interesting. Inside fighting I think would be a tossup. Bowe still has the advantage of being bigger and stronger, whereas the cumulative effect of Rocky's nonstop punches will surely take their toll. But again, that's only if Rocky can even get to Riddick.

[Son of Gaul]

:lol::lol::lol: congratulations - that last one was one of the funniest lines ever - who that Riddick Bowe fought was better than Walcott (fight I), Charles (fight I) and Archie Moore ???? - sorry but thats probably the most riddick-ulous quote yet on ESB Classic - plus how is Riddick faster i think you seriously need to go back and watch the films again :lol:

Charles was a natural light heavyweight and walcott and archie moore were 100 and 200 yrs old respectively.

[flamengo]

Even Marciano wouldn't be stupid enough to take this fight... no matter how much his manager Weiss pushed.

[choklab]

Even Marciano wouldn't be stupid enough to take this fight... no matter how much his manager Weiss pushed.


why? because bowe looked so good agaisnt herbie hide, golota twice, coetzer, mathis jnr and tony tubbs? hmm, sure rocky and weil would be realy afraid of big daddy...NOT!

[junior-soprano]

i respect the opinion of (almost) everyone. but those who think that marciano beats bowe or even has a chance against bowe should be locked up in a retard institution

[crippet]

Bowe was out on his feet against Herbie Hide luckily a wild swing connected on the glass jawed hide, it still then took around 5 knockdowns to get him out of there.

Now Marciano will hit harder than Hide and he will not be badly hurt [maybe for a second or 2] from a wild swing.

Bowe is way over rated in match ups - Posters just use 1 fight of his as his template then use weakness's encompassing virtually 10 years spans of other fighters careers.

The Bowe that fought Hollifield in fight one would lose to Marciano 10 times if he fought him in the next 10 fights.

But I just can't see Bowe even winning the first fight - Marciano would hurt him and once he was hurt no wild flailing hopeful punches would deter the Rock

Marciano KO 10

[Bummy Davis]

Big Daddy was Big and he would get a Big beatdown from Marciano. Marciano too rough and Bowe would not be able to take the pace or the power but I do see him lasting until 10 rds or so. . I dont think size is enough and Bowe got hit often. Class would surface here.

[PowerPuncher]

This is Bowe-Holyfield except Holyfield is a better boxer than the Rock, better speed, bigger/taller/rangier, stronger, better chin, just as good at everything else perhaps barring power, which Im not convinced by given Holyfields bigger more durable competition

[RockysSplitNose]

Charles was a natural light heavyweight and walcott and archie moore were 100 and 200 yrs old respectively.

Come on this isn't top trumps you know - there's more to it than that - honestly don't want to sound patronising but come back when you know a bit about the fight game :lol::lol: